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mcone
114 Posts |
 Posted - 02/16/2008 : 16:07:03
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quote:
Originally posted by brightondebs
"That was about five days ago and now I'm back to terrible pain in my arms and "trigger points" in my shoulders etc. I know in my heart I believe the gluten free diet was the real reason I was getting better :( How can I convince myself it wasn't? I know I have more than enough reasons for the pain to have increased for reasons other than eating gluten again."
I agree that it can be very difficult to assess whether these things are relevant. I am struggling with the same types of concerns. Are there any truly reliable ways of ascertaining whether gluten reactions or other foods allergies/sensitivies are responsible for symptoms? You can probably find anecdotal accounts of people associating RSI - and especially FM, with virtually anything. Here is someone who claims a gluten association: http://www.ergoblog.com/2007/01/update_on_my_rs.html
For me, it would be an extraordinary challenge to let go of "physical" interventions - especially nutrition. After everything I've read (and experienced) over the years, I'm still convinced that nutritional interventions have the potential to greatly impact mental and physical health.
Following a long series of disabling depressive episodes in my earlier life (7 to 8 years) with little benefit from psychiatric drugs and psychotherapy, I started a "healthy" lifestyle - including a very wholesome, junk-free diet, regular exericse and dietary supplements. I still attribute the transformation of my life to these measures, which kept me well for about 16 years (I went to grad school, developed a professional career, was promoted to prestigous position, etc.) until my "TMS breakdown at the end of '06.
So, I'm left trying to reconcile my own past experience (and present approach) with nutritional interventions with TMS theory somehow - and I've entertained a variety of ideas (some of which, admittedly, are entirely inconsistent with TMS). In order of least problematic to most heretical:
Interpreting Past Experience
1. All my nutritional interventions were a placebo, and it was more the accompanying changes I made in my life circumstances - my self-discipline, my independence, and my pursuit of higher goals that served we well. (The health habits simply inspired a belief that I was now somehow stronger, more resilient, and more capable).
1.1 Many of the nutritional interventions (i.e. megavitamins) were useless, but regular aerobic exercise, eating balanced meals with real food, and keeping blood sugar - adrenal function, etc. stable, improved my mental and physical health.
1.2 My health interventions were so successful at supressing symptoms of depression and supressing the experience or acknowledgment of painful emotions for so many years, that I developed painful TMS.
Decicing upon Present Approach
2. These things support better mental-physical functioning, and may help diminish some symptoms, but they are neither the cause nor cure for TMS.
3. These things may or may not do anything, but it's still worthwhile to take special measures if one is concerned (i.e., gluten-free, vitamins, etc.) and this reduces nagging anxiety about whether one might be missing something. Again, keeping in mind that these things are niether the cause nor cure of TMS.
4. These things support better mental-physcial functioning and to the extent that they improve the functional integrity of the physical brain (the hardware), they enable one's mind (the software) to better overcome TMS. In other words, they may be synergistic to TMS treatment.
5. The symptoms of many proposed nutritional/metabolic disorders (both mental and physical symptoms), are so similar to those of TMS, that perhaps TMS is a actually a poorly understood nutritional/metabolic condition, which, due to it's frequent mental components, is being mistakenly characterized as a psychosomatic condition.
[Flame suit on!]
Note. These same type of rationalizations, especially numbers 2 and 3, can also apply to physical intereventions (like working out and physical therapy), but I "justify" physical modalities - at least in part, on those and other grounds (building strength and fitness gives me a greater sense of security, helps build confidence in physical ability, and seems to help symptoms.) At the same time, I actually can entertain the idea that the psychological is utlimately the most critical dimension to all this.
Of course, there are two major pitfalls to this approach - Attribution and Accountability, and I regularly experience them both: When things are going well, you attribute this to the physical intervention (or you are confused as to what to credit). Conversely, when things don't go well, you are not sure what to hold accountable - If you've not been following your physical program, this can be the easy suspect, but whether you have or not, the TMS model suggests that any focus on the physical is counterproductive. At least this is what happens to me - and at the moment, I don't have a confidence-inspiring way of fully resolving this.
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Edited by - mcone on 02/16/2008 16:40:49 |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2008 : 00:52:46
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Man, mcone, you truly are the king of overanalysis still. It's good overanalysis, but I imagine it's still driving your inner self crazy to go through it all. (Because it's kind of driving me crazy by proxy. ;-) )
quote:
I still attribute the transformation of my life to these measures, which kept me well for about 16 years (I went to grad school, developed a professional career, was promoted to prestigous position, etc.) until my "TMS breakdown at the end of '06.
I'm going to go with your option for the "some of the nutrition stuff was useless/placebo, but having a healthy lifestyle improves both mental and physical health." There's quite a bit of evidence that exercise improves depression as much as drugs do, for example.
Unfortunately there's only so much improving our mental health is subject to if we don't address the underlying causes. Fortunately, the TMS paradigm allows us to do that. As you've hopefully found at this point.
The reason I wonder why you are thinking about this so much is this:
If you have a choice between a life that involves healthy eating and regular exercise and a life that doesn't, which would you choose, regardless of TMS? Pretty clearly the it's good for you no matter what, so does it really matter whether it was specifically responsible for your earlier changes? Why have you devoted so much worry to this when the answer is really simple? You don't need to analyze everything that happened in your past in terms of TMS or not. Getting a sense of the pattterns is enough.
I still have my same message for you. Stop worrying so goshdarn much, do the normal stuff to stay healthy, have some ice cream occasionally, and get back to enjoying life...
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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brightondebs
United Kingdom
21 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2008 : 09:39:04
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| hehe mcone your post sounds like the inside of my head! This endless round of doubt/justification/analysis :) I appreciate the post though. I'm glad I'm not the only one dealing with these issues. I have another one for you though. I am a member of the RSI-UK mailing list and as of reading a particular post today I'm quitting - it's just holding back my recovery. Essentially, someone posted a link to a site linking RSI to bone damage and referred to experiments inducing RSI and soft tissue damage in rats. Now if rats can get RSI how can it be psychological?? The link: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/11/031111064437.htm |
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qso
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2008 : 14:15:40
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This is a common misconception about emotions.
Rats have emotional chemicals too. They can be stressed, happy, depressed.
We evolved from single-celled animals. The body and emotions appeared before there was a brain, before there was conciousness. Think about it! |
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qso
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2008 : 14:18:58
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| Remember that it is the animal part of our brain that is really driving the TMS, not the conscious, rational part that is sitting on top of it. |
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mcone
114 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2008 : 15:11:48
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quote:
Originally posted by brightondebs
Now if rats can get RSI how can it be psychological??
I'm equally troubled by information of this type and I generally agree with the others.
I've been struggling quite hard to adapt TMS in a way that I can assimilate to work for me. Sometimes, I just tell myself that the science and academics are besides the point, and even if I can't explain other evidence that seem contradictory, (and even when many of my symptoms seem inexplicable), there is still no question that TMS has worked well for many people. [A perfect example is ACL - If there truly was a phenomeon of increasing degenerative damage (as suggested here) it simply would not have been possible for ACL, Redsandro, HillaryN, and many others to recover while continuing to perform and even escelate the very activities purported to be harmful
Other times, I'm bent on reading everything I can understand - as an attempt to arrive at the elusive "meta-theory" - the explanation that harmonizes TMS (or at least the efficacy of TMS) with all the other information out there. (See my "Editorial" below), and I have many theories.
With respect to the study cited, my reaction is that it may or may not establish anything: First, it isn't clear what the equivalent level of activity would be in humans and second, although they said it was "pathological" this also doesn't say very much. What happened next? What might have happened next? Could physiolgical functions eventually normalize to account for the increased load? Isn't that what happens with trained athletes? Isn't inflammation part of a normal adapative process? (Arguably, these rats may never have had the chance to gradually work up to the level of activity they were given)
Another more important question is stress and how that effects metabolic processes in the body. Emerging (non-TMS) theories of RSI and FM suggest that abberant changes in tissue metabolism cause the pain problems (i.e., blood flow, muscle tone, clearing waste products, release of inflammatory chemistries, growth hormones and repair issues, etc.) Many (non-TMS) theories also implicate the endocrine system, autonomic nervous system, the HPA axis (Hypothalamic-pituatary-adrenal: how the hypothalamus, pituitary and adrenal glands work together to regulate hormone levels and maintain homeostasis). And lo and behold, what is known to cause disturbance in HPA balance? Of course, you guessed it - anxiety and stress.
Just as other have suggested (much more efficiently!) I would suggest that stress can dysregulate the nervous system of a rat as much as it can dysregulate a human.
[I find all this quite ironic: The crusty old-school family doctor - whose knee-jerk reaction to elusive pain is to say - "stress, it's all in your head" was probably right - but couldn't really explain why, wasn't sympathetic, and really couldn't help much. But the new-world rheumatologist, armed with evidence of physiological changes in the body, is sympathetic, tries to help, but is starting from an ultimately erroneous premise that the etiology and treatment is physical.
My editorial
I think TMS theory needs to advance its scientific understanding of relationships and mechanisms that mediate between the mind and physiolgical states of pain or tissue change. I'm discouarged that the leading authorities of TMS largely ignore or dismiss the hard-to-reconcile science, or the experience of other medical disciplines as irrelevant, placebo, nocebo, etc.
Despite the sizable number of demonstrable TMS recoveries and the compelling nature of these histories, the majority of people with health issues (who could likely be helped) have a hard time accepting TMS because of the absence of well-developed, and persuasive science to support the theory (and reconcile the theory with other medical thought). I think this also explains the rather sparse number of TMS MD's - less than 50 or so in the United States (about 1 per 6 million people). It isn't that TMS doesn't work - it does, it isn't even that one can't understand how it works, it's that the model actually seems to contradict lots of other medical evidence - which is probably one of the reasons that I remain so analytical.
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Edited by - mcone on 02/17/2008 15:18:08 |
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Odrog
27 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2008 : 18:27:12
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quote:
Originally posted by mcone
quote:
Originally posted by brightondebs
Now if rats can get RSI how can it be psychological??
I'm equally troubled by information of this type and I generally agree with the others.
I don't know why so many assume that every symptom that CAN be a mindbody symptom is always EXCLUSIVELY a mindbody disorder in everyone that has the symptom. You could have ringing in the ears because a loud firework just blew up in your face, or it could be a mindbody issue. You could have irritable bowl because you've got Crohns disease, or because you've got a mindbody issue, etc. etc.
If you're at this forum, and have read Sarno's books, chances are you already know you have a mindbody issue. If you have MULTIPLE symptoms on the lists of known mindbody symptoms, and you've got anxiety problems, then you should know what's up by now.
But getting back to the original post - I wanted to share my experience with RSI. As is common among us folks with anxiety/mindbody/TMS/autonomic overload (whatever you want to call it) issues my symptoms keep moving around. I went though an "RSI" phase that lasted about a year. I also work on computers all day, professionally. I thought for sure I had carpal tunnel syndrome. I started doing research. At the time, I had NO IDEA this could even BE a mindbody problem (had not read Sarno at that point in my life). I started doing exercises, tried lots of things. I switched the hand I was using for the computer mouse, I got an ergonomic keyboard, I made sure my posture was better, I started using a trackball, etc. None of that stuff really helped.
Then I saw people recommending a product called "C-Trac", I was skeptical and didn't want to shell out money for something that wouldn't help. But lots of people were saying it completely cured them in just 1-3 months. And they even had published clinical trials, so I knew it was not a scam. Some doctors were recommending it too. Well I figured I had little to lose. I bought one. I kid you not, it worked great, was not instant, I used it 3 times a day, following the instructions that came with it, I used it for about 3 months, and what do you know, ALL pain completely went away. No more pain in my hands or wrists, no more numbness, no more waking up in the middle of the night with shooting pain going down my forearms, or no feeling in my hands. None of these symptoms have come back, I have no issues like this at all anymore.
OK - so fast forward to today. Now I know that my symptoms were documented mindbody symptoms. I probably could have gotten over it without a medical device. And in fact my brain probably just accepted defeat and moved on to something else. Haha, this is what happens to many of us. You have to deal with the real problem instead of just dealing with symptoms. Of course this is something I'm still working on, but I do feel like I've made a ton of progress. The latest symptom I've had is dizziness, so far just one serious episode, and it hasn't come back, so I'm hoping I've beaten that as well because now I understand what it was and can laugh about it. More importantly I'm hoping I've started doing something to address the underlying anxiety that is contributing to my symptoms.
Just wanted to pass on a note of encouragement, there is hope, and you will get better. If you think props can help you, I do recommend the c-trac thing. Of course in all truthfulness its probably just a way to trick your mind into accepting defeat with a particular symptom and moving on to something else, but as long as you know that I don't see the harm...
I have absolutely no affiliation with this company, and like I said the product was probably only a "prop" that worked because I believed it would work but this is where I got the device I mentioned:
http://www.ctracforcts.com/
There is a link on the left for the efficacy study. |
Edited by - Odrog on 02/17/2008 18:33:31 |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2008 : 23:10:42
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quote:
I find all this quite ironic: The crusty old-school family doctor - whose knee-jerk reaction to elusive pain is to say - "stress, it's all in your head" was probably right - but couldn't really explain why, wasn't sympathetic, and really couldn't help much. But the new-world rheumatologist, armed with evidence of physiological changes in the body, is sympathetic, tries to help, but is starting from an ultimately erroneous premise that the etiology and treatment is physical.
Yes - I personally developed CFS and FMS 35 years ago and was majorly judged and eye-rolled at by docs who nonetheless were happy to take thousand of dollars to make me feel like an idiot. So when these illnesses started being recognized, it felt like love and validation. This is a bit of a complicated subject, actually. We've all probably noticed that there is a tendency among some of us to judge each other and adopt a kind of ifyoudon'tgetityou'reanidiot attitude. Hardly the right direction, whether our problems are physical or psychological.
My experience has been that some of the most loving practitioners are actually the most totally devoted to the physical model of things, because they are trying to make the marginalized, suffering chronic pain and fatigue people feel like they aren't crazy. So, again, as whoever it was (sorry - it's hard to check from the posting page) said above, it's kind of ironic, and not black and white at all.
xx
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2008 : 01:18:44
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quote:
A perfect example is ACL - If there truly was a phenomeon of increasing degenerative damage (as suggested here) it simply would not have been possible for ACL, Redsandro, HillaryN, and many others to recover while continuing to perform and even escelate the very activities purported to be harmful.
Exactly. BTW, I'm almost a 'poster child' for RSI (or rather, non-RSI). Computer use pretty much daily since the age of five, up to 8 hours a day and sometimes more, plus, hobbyist musician and web designer. If I don't have it, who does?
quote:
Despite the sizable number of demonstrable TMS recoveries and the compelling nature of these histories, the majority of people with health issues (who could likely be helped) have a hard time accepting TMS because of the absence of well-developed, and persuasive science to support the theory (and reconcile the theory with other medical thought).
No, I don't think this is true. I think this is why YOU personally are having trouble. And the reason that you personally are having this particular kind of trouble is that you are the analytical type and your mind doesn't want to give up obsessing about your symptoms and whether or not they are/were TMS as a distraction. Whether or not there should be work done I'm happy to debate (later, not in this thread), but it is not the reason, in my opinion, why most people have a hard time accepting the theory. The reason is that their unconscious is trying not to let them accept it, and because it goes against everything they've always been told.
I'm very, very serious when I say that you really need to get past this in order to complete your recovery. I wonder if you think I'm not serious because my remarks about it are sometimes jocular, so to clarify, I am. Your analytical mind doesn't have to be turned off. This isn't an exercise in faith. But you need to utilize its deeper capacities for finding patterns and understanding ideas instead of continuing to obesess at the surface level. I'm very sympathetic to the problem, since fighting anxiety and the accompanying obsessive thinking was a big part of my later work post-pain, but you must break this cycle because your brain is using it to fool you into thinking you're making progress when you're really just obsessing even more. The doubts and worries are extraneous noise from the unconscious, not the smart part of your mind reminding you about really important issues.
It's not 100% belief that's required. It's 100% commitment.
Also, just a footnote on Odrog's link: the device applies for CTS only.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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mcone
114 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2008 : 20:19:23
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quote:
Originally posted by armchairlinguist
No, I don't think this is true. I think this is why YOU personally are having trouble.
* * *
I'm very, very serious when I say that you really need to get past this in order to complete your recovery. I wonder if you think I'm not serious because my remarks about it are sometimes jocular, so to clarify, I am.
You've got me figured out (mostly). And I know you are both genuine and very serious in your direction to me. I have responses on many levels.
First, my minds CEO - the part that evaluates how deeply and completely to invest in TMS (Wasn't there someone wise that said something 100% commitment?), and abandon the other medical (physical) thinking I've come to believe in as relevant to my situation (diet, nutrition, physiology, etc.) has been churning the evidence for months with no clear decision:
One the one hand, TMS works for many people, has offered accurate insights into personality and emotional patterns, seems to explain many otherwise, inexplicable physical symptoms, etc. On the other hand, there are other medical disciplines that also seem credible (my personal experience with nutrition in particular really did seem to change me life). And some of my symptoms and pain patterns seem to defy TMS (and the typcial "RSI" pattern as well) so I end up questing whether TMS is my particular answer regardless of the soundness of TMS).
So, as you've observed, I'm driving myself crazy looking for the meta-model, the elusive explanation that explains my symptoms in light of the physical models as well as the TMS model. [Of course, I continue to do this even though I'm aware that this churning is supposed to be a distraction mechanism of TMS]
Yet, another courageous individual I greatly respect is Nate McNamara - he recovered from a very serious "RSI" via mindbody. It is true that he believed completely and was 100% committed to the path he chose - and I do see how that is necessary for success - but the path he arrived at was arguably, a somewhat adapated version of TMS.
I'm not sure if this is an impasse or some kind of "rite of passage". I can't entirely abandon some of the physical thinking, but I believe that I can place it into a relationship with TMS, where I understand the psychological to be a critical component. Perhaps common sense and recognizing the benefits and limitations of high quality physical inputs (i.e., good diet and exercise) while also acknowledging that the psychological inputs are the most important factors determining whether one maintains health or arrives at dysfunction under conditions of physical or mental stress. And that TMS-type pyschological work (i.e., emotional awareness, reconcilation or acknowledgment of past, coming to terms with anxiety about future, etc.) is mandatory and insurmountable by any other means. I'm not quite there yet, but I might be moving in the right direction. |
Edited by - mcone on 02/18/2008 20:45:08 |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2008 : 12:55:25
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Your last paragraph sounds about right. I think you are going in the right direction.
quote:
But the path he [Nate] arrived at was arguably, a somewhat adapated version of TMS.
This I didn't get from his pages at all. He went the full Sarno route, using a number of Fred Amir techniques to supplement Sarno's.
One important thing here is to remember that the reasons that you're coming up with not to believe don't really make that much sense -- they're just being manufactured by your brain to sound plausible to you. The next step is just to ignore the reasons and get on with it. Eventually, you'll find your own synthesis of the various theories and you'll drop into a place that you're comfortable with. Don't push your brain to do it now when you are not ready. You need the experience of committing and doing the work first and then you'll see how things fit together after.
No one is claiming that zero of our health comes from our physical decisions and situation. Eating right and exercising are important for good health irrespective of TMS. You can not have any major TMS troubles and yet still have diabetes and high blood pressure and be short of breath because you eat too much, or get neuro symptoms because you have B12 deficiency. It's not an all-or-nothing, but you are not in a position right now to figure out what the percentages are because you haven't had the necessary experience with TMS treatment, and the answer is not important in the short run. You went the other route already. That path is trodden and you still have RSI. Get on this one for a while and see where you end up.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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mcone
114 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2008 : 20:51:41
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quote:
Originally posted by armchairlinguist
* * *
The next step is just to ignore the reasons and get on with it. Eventually, you'll find your own synthesis of the various theories and you'll drop into a place that you're comfortable with. Don't push your brain to do it now when you are not ready. You need the experience of committing and doing the work first and then you'll see how things fit together after.
* * *
It's not an all-or-nothing, but you are not in a position right now to figure out what the percentages are because you haven't had the necessary experience with TMS treatment, and the answer is not important in the short run.
To be totally honest, I can't claim to have invested consistent effort in the psychological work. I've done emotional work sporadically, have come up with many good insights - perhaps even the most critical ones, but then I've rationalized that this was likely sufficient (i.e., I assumed that this basic knowledge, by itself, should be the cure). And I've generally been much more pre-occupied with the more "secular" approach that places the emphasis on overcoming the fear conditioning and is less concerned with whether it evolved from (or is being perpetuated by) psychological reasons or other mechanisms (at least that's my read on McNamara).
I have to fully agree with ACL's direction here - and my very bright and sincere (non-TMS) therapist agrees as well. As much as I'd like a greater sense of control, and an ehanced understanding of the process (with all questions answered), its in my interest to put the academics aside for now, get beyond reversal of fear conditioning as the sole focus, and commit fully to the psychological work - to fully integrating and assimilating as thoroughly as possible all those past sources of rage (and corresonding future anxieties).
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campbell28
80 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 08:00:47
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I tried getting food intolerance testing on the advice of a homeopath and it came up with quite a few things - yeast and I think chocolate were the main ones. so i did a months exclusion diet and while everyone said my skin looked great at the end, it made no difference to the rsi or my (mild) psoriasis( thank god because i find chocolate exceptionally soothing). now i eat everything and its all fine.
the other thing about excluding foods was that it made me feel even more different and alienated from everyone. i already felt very detached and strange because of everything that was happening to me, and having to constantly think about what i was going to eat and when, and refusing pudding and wine etc when other people were eating, made ame feel even worse and focused my mind even more on what was 'wrong' with me physically and how awful everything was, making me think about the physical symptoms even more and obssess about what might be causing them. in that sense it sort of adds to the distraction from what is really going on
i also spent a long time hunting up scientific explanations for how tms 'worked' , having doubts, going round and round in circles etc etc.
in the end it is just like armchair says: even if you don't totally believe it or arent' satisfied with the expanations, if you act like you do believe it and keep telling your subconscious that you believe it, eventually it works.
and i think you do need to keep up the emotional work. i started back at work last week at a receptionists job and i have been physically fine - but I have to keep reminding myself that I need to look after myself. i need to come home and ask myself how i feel, and if i feel angry or sad to let it out by writing stuff down or tearing stuff up or reading some sad book that will make me cry. otherwise i know i would revert to the old pattern of gritting my teeth and keeping going which is what started it all off.
i think i'm also better when i don't look at the forums too much - i did find them very helpful but it seems after a while it was just keeping me thinking about tms. i know other people have said that.
anyway good luck debs and mcone - i think i am really coming out of the tunnel (i went to kung fu on tues for the first time in 2 years and it was absolutely fine) and YOU WILL TOO. just keep thinking emotionally and telling yourselves you are physically fine! |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 10:41:05
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campbell, glad to hear you are doing well with the transition back to work!
quote:
the more "secular" approach that places the emphasis on overcoming the fear conditioning and is less concerned with whether it evolved from (or is being perpetuated by) psychological reasons or other mechanisms (at least that's my read on McNamara).
I think he wrote a lot about conditioning because it can be hard to overcome, even if you quickly get the Sarno part sorted out. I found Amir's book extremely helpful in that regard too. Reconditioning was a major focus of my efforts for the weeks after I figured out the theory. Amir doesn't devote much of the book to discussing the psychology, but he does acknowledge it and discuss in vague terms some particular things that were issues (such as communication in his marriage). I think both of them (as well as I and virtually everyone I know of whose success story is published outside this forum) have severe reservations about exposing too much personal information to the world, so they tend to discuss the theory and then the practical parts of getting better, skipping the part where you apply the theory to yourself. That doesn't mean they didn't do it or it's not important.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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brightondebs
United Kingdom
21 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2008 : 12:22:55
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I suspect this is a particularly clever way for my brain to trick me but after reading 3 of Sarno's books I still have this feeling that he never really goes into detail about what to do to get better! I'm the kind of person who needs concrete instructions and Sarno tends to says vague things like "think psychological". I lent MBP to a friend and he said the same thing so I know it's not just me :) At the moment I write a journal every morning, yell at my brain every time I get pain (this amazingly works, but sadly only for back pain) and try to listen to what is going on inside my head when I get particularly bad pain (usually I'm bored). I've also returned to normal activities as much as possible and try to disrespect the pain and not let it intimidate me. BUT I still have symptoms and I still can't do web work. Is there anything more I can do? Is it worth buying more books like Fred Amir's? I feel I am making progress but at the same time I feel I'm doing this whole thing "wrong"! I don't sit down and go over my emotional issues and I suspect that's because I'm afraid to. I'm so happy right now, my depression has totally gone, and I'm worried that will upset that. Hmm...that could be the problem right? :)
Ok I just re-read the treatment parts of DM, MBC and HBP and he really isn't that vague, I'm supposed to make my list of things that contribute to my internal rage and think about them every day, and when I feel pain. I realise now I've been avoiding doing that or even acknowledging I'm supposed to be doing it! Damn my brain. Buying more books would just enable me to avoid this further... |
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Odrog
27 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 12:38:42
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quote:
Originally posted by campbell28
i think i'm also better when i don't look at the forums too much - i did find them very helpful but it seems after a while it was just keeping me thinking about tms. i know other people have said that.
I agree. I think the more you dwell on it, the worse off you are. Almost like you have to ignore it and blow it off to get better. Don't get me wrong, I think the forum is useful, I'm new here and it is/was great to read about other people going though the same mind body issues that I've been challenged with. Also a good place to find encouragement and to encourage others. Share what works. But I think at some point I'll have to "move on" so to speak.
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 13:25:19
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quote:
Ok I just re-read the treatment parts of DM, MBC and HBP and he really isn't that vague, I'm supposed to make my list of things that contribute to my internal rage and think about them every day, and when I feel pain. I realise now I've been avoiding doing that or even acknowledging I'm supposed to be doing it.
There is something kind of ruefully funny about this realization. It is a common one. People also sometimes say there is nothing in X Sarno book about their condition. Then you read it and find that there is and you quote it to them and they go oh, I don't remember reading that, how did I miss it? No mystery, your unconscious is trying to make you forget. :)
Kelvin also has some good resources at his site http://www.etex.net/kelving/ (look for Daily TMS Exercise and Journaling Guide), and if you do need something very concrete, I assure you Mr. Amir's book will help you out, since his whole book is about concrete it is impossible to ignore it. 
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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Redsandro
Netherlands
217 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2008 : 12:23:32
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Just stepping by to say how I was lazy and postponed journaling. Now, two weeks later, the pain in my arms is gone.
It's pure happiness to see my mind fixing things on autopilot for a change.
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TMS is the hidden language of the soul. |
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campbell28
80 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2008 : 16:36:38
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just thought i would write down some of the stuff thats been happening as I've gone back to work, in case it helps anyone and also because i think it helps me to write it all down sometimes as well.
i had a bit of a meltdown this evening - have been back at work two and a half weeks, doing part-time (27 hrs a week)as a receptionist. however some of the hours are pretty long - i work 8.30 - 6 two days a week and on a couple of these days have then gone to a three-hour choir rehearsal afterwards. yesterday we had a meeting in the lunch hour and then i went to choir so i guess I basically had a 12-hour day.
this is probably quite a lot for someone who until 2 weeks ago was doing volunteering two days a week and the occasional casual promotions shift.
i have noticed I was getting pretty tense and anxious, like I used to at my old job - its like my whole body is braced against some attack: my stomach muscles are tight, i can feel my breathing is shallower, and i end up sort of curled over as if i'm expecting someone to punch me in the stomach (this sounds sort of dramatic but i don't think anyone would notice, it all happens in a gradual low-key way). by the time i get home i don't want to talk to anyone and end up sort of squidged up tensely on the sofa.
thankfully the tension has not translated itself too much to the old rsi troublespots of shoulders and wrists, or if it has i've just been ignoring it.
i did really notice in choir though how much more tension i was carrying. i always have a tendency to dry up in singing, which i've worked out is fear of failure, but its got much better recently. the last couple of rehersals i was back to pretty much losing my voice half-way through and feeling like i was really forcing myself to produce some pretty horrid strangulated sounds.
then today i came home and just felt so anxious and horrible i knew i really needed to think properly about by feelings and what was going on underneath the anxiety. so after some angry tear-provoking scribbling i ended up in this sort of mad, angry, weepy dialogue with my brain: literally sitting on the floor going ' i don't want to do this stupid ****ing job, don't make me, i don't want to, its not fair' which i guess is my subconscious talking, and then also shouting at mys subconscious for making my body so tense ' stop it, its not real, why can't you just shut up'.
i still get residual stiffness and pain sometimes in my wrist which suddenly wmade me really angry so i was doing press-ups, punching things, splaying my hand on the wall, all sorts of stuff to prove to myself the pain wasn't real - and quite a few times it did just go away.
after about an hour and a half of this i sat back down and did some more writing and realised that the reason i was feeling so horrible wasn't really the job itself or the long hours. it was me putting pressure on myself again. I've been thinking ' i must do as many hours as possible so I can pay off my overdraft quickly and go away somewhere' which was putting my poor sad still somewhat nervous-breakdowned mind under such a lot of pressure. I was feeling trapped and hemmed in and scared of the job - but its not fear of the job itself, its fear of the pressure I put myself under.
why do i have to do loads of hours? i'm still earning double what i was last month on benefits. what is the point of making myself miserable all over again when I've only just figured out how to stop being miserable? I dont need to impress the people at this job with my amazing ability to be a receptionist.
people will only have high expectations of me if i run around like a headless chicken creating them. then i will feel pressurised by the expectations and get all anxious and tense again. if i just let go and take it easy and don't worry so much about being great at my job in the first place, then they won't expect so much of me and the pressure won't be there.
anyway, the positive thing about all this is that i managed to dig down to the feelings and figure out what was really wrong, and it came out in crying and some crazy air-punching rather than in some physical symptom. the anxiety has not totally gone, i wish it bloody would, but at least i did something to ease it and i know why its there.
i wish all this crap would just GO AWAY but i suppose, inevitably it is going to take time. and wishing myself better won't make me better. if anything, acknowledging that i'm still shaky and looking after myself is going to help me get over all this sooner. every time i start acting - however unconsciously - as if i'm a super-capable perfectly-balanced worker bee again, i am brought up with a big old jolt by my brain pleading with me to just take it a bit easier and buzz around looking at the flowers some more. old habits are hard to break but tomorrow i have the morning off and i am going to go and eat a biscuit in the park and look at the trees and try not to worry about what will happen in the afternoon. |
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brightondebs
United Kingdom
21 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2008 : 04:38:32
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| Thank you for this post. I really value everything you say as I feel I'm on a similar path just a little further behind :)I have also started to get very stressed and tense in the last few weeks and I haven't even gone back to work! What I have done is start volunteering. The thing is I started volunteering for 3 different organisations and no I find myself working the hours of a full time job including Saturdays because I just can't say no! It is crazy. How do we break out of these perfectionistic, goodist habits? I know my desire to help, to always say yes, to be the perfect volunteer, comes from a deep desire to be liked. How can I change this? I feel so run down and stressed but I've found myself booking up all of next week with more volunteer work already and I still have no money coming in as I don't actually have a paid job! What I should be focussed on his applying for jobs, not spending all my time and energy on voluntary work :( The thing is I am aware of this, I just don't know how to change. |
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Help! Hit rock bottom with doubt and depression
