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Redsandro
Netherlands
217 Posts |
 Posted - 01/28/2008 : 07:25:38
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quote:
Originally posted by campbell28
I know that TMS-style illnesses have been around probably since time began, but I wonder if they are more prevalent in modern life
Actually, I think Sarno wrote about that. TMS is the concequence of the western way of life, by which he probably means any modern way of life (not just western).
quote:
Originally posted by campbell28
the thing I hated about news journalism specifically is that it actually has nothing to do with writing! (...)
Yeah, take something you like to do, strip out any creativity, and let you do the resulting thing as fast as possible. Same for news broadcasting. Superiors really didn't like my personal touch of making news a tiny little bit funny. But doing that was the last thing I liked about making the news. I have learned that now I will never do anything concerning news.
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TMS is the hidden language of the soul. |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2008 : 16:33:00
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quote:
Originally posted by campbell28
I realise this is rather a career-oriented view of TMS, probably because my own crisis was mainly precipitated by my job ( though there were clearly other factors). I do find it interesting though.
It not only applies to careers, it can apply to other areas of life too. For example, the mother who would like to be doing something else with some of her time, but feels like she wouldn't be a good mother if she took time for her own needs instead of always sacrificing herself to meet the demands of the family.
And I'm sure it would apply to other family positions people end up holding in life such as the "responsible son" who is expected to look out for everyone in the family or the "caregiver daughter" who runs herself ragged trying to take care of elderly parents while ignoring what she really needs from life.
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2008 : 18:09:36
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I'm not entirely sure that TMS was/is as rare before modern life/in non-Western cultures as Sarno says. We just don't know, so (small quarrel with the Good Doctor) it probably would have been better for him not to imply that it's a modern scourge only. I'm not arguing that the pressures of modern life don't suck in their own, perhaps unprecedented way, but...
It can't have been easy, for example, for women to sacrifice themselves for their children and husbands. It might be easier if it's what you always expect and you don't know of other options, but still. Can't have been that easy. And equivalent for other people. Whatever the cultural expectations were, if you didn't fit, it's always sucked.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2008 : 22:35:37
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Yes, and then again, they didn't live that long in the old days. Could their early deaths have been TMS - in the sense that things were SO rough for their unconscious emotional lives that they took any excuse (plague, etc.) to get the hell outa here?
We, on the other hand, have some kind of curriculum of staying here and becoming more integrated, which is why we end up (so far) with non-lethal TMS that we can use as a pointer towards lost parts of our selves.
Ah, the gratitude!
x
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
Edited by - Wavy Soul on 01/28/2008 22:36:05 |
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campbell28
80 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2008 : 02:17:20
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Littlebird: sorry, I didn't mean it to sound like I thought TMS was only caused by career angst - I guess I worded that post badly. I know there are all sorts of reasons why people develop it. I'm just interested in that particular angle of it because it's what set me off. I know that there were other emotional factors behind what happened to me, but my problems with the job were what brought it all to a head.
Redsandro: I do think TMS has probably been going on for years and years, but that the particular stresses of modern life have maybe made it more widespread? Or just visible. Or maybe not, maybe it has always been happening at the same sort of rate.
Like armchair says about women having to sacrifice things for thier families: women used to be diagnosed with 'hysterical' symptoms which were probably a consequence of their restricted lives. If you've ever read Pat Barker's Regeneration novels, she writes about soldiers in the First World War who presented with psychosomatic symptoms because of the particular horror of the fighting conditions. And what about all those people who died of a broken heart after their partner died? (doctors used actually to be able to put that as cause of death on a death certificate, I think, but they can't any more. )
Wavy: that's some comfort - I'd definitely rather have RSI than bubonic plague... |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 01/29/2008 : 10:03:43
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Campbell28, You didn't word the post badly, I didn't explain mine well. I didn't take your comments to mean that career stresses are worse than others, I just meant to add to what you said. Thanks for being concerned about my feelings though.
It's so true, as you said, that one of the most stressful things in life is trying to balance providing for one's self financially with taking care of one's emotional needs. My life would be a lot easier if I didn't have to worry about money and could do the things I'd really like to be doing instead.
Your point about women formerly being diagnosed with hysteria is a good one. I've also read that women in times past sometimes developed symptoms which would now be diagnosed as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome or something similar. And I've read that the rate of soldiers who develop Fibromyalgia type symptoms is triple during times of active war as compared to those who are in the military when there's no war for them to fight. |
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brightondebs
United Kingdom
21 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2008 : 00:34:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Redsandro
Here's an old topic back when I had full blown RSI and just started Sarno where you can see me whine, but I am totally recovered for about a year now.
http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2729
Thank you so much for this! It was an incredibly useful thread for me and very relevant.
I've replied to campbell28's wonderful email but I thought I'd post a few of my points here too.
I felt our stories were very similar and I've taken the advice to heart. I'm definitely going to put off applying for jobs right now and just take things as they come.
quote:
Originally posted by campbell28
I think I pretty much had a nervous breakdown when I left my job - I just didn't notice because I thought it was RSI (sounds crazy but i think its true).
I feel exactly the same way. I really feel like I've burnt out, had a complete mental, physical and emotional breakdown and it's going to take a while to recover from that. Even though nobody would think that to talk to me, and my symptoms are physical, it is how I see things. Does anyone else feel the same?
I've also started to notice that when I feel better physically I get really anxious - it's quite weird. I get really anxious when I try to sort through my emotional issues from the past too. I know in the past I had huge anxiety issues to the point where I just couldn't sleep and went on anti-depressants and I think that I hated that so much I created these physical symptoms in order to avoid going back there, back in "the box".
I also have a strong desire to change my career and also to write. I know everyone says that, but despite the web design career I actually have a BA in English Literature and Drama and I've taken many creative writing courses over the years. Last year I even set up www.brightonwriters.co.uk (and won an web award, yay!) for aspiring writers in Brighton. Of course, I was doing it in my spare time while working full-time as a web designer and so the stress was enormous and shortly after it launched my body collapsed so now it just languishes :(
The biggest thing for me right now is that I'm terrified of the future because I have no idea what to do career wise. I have a genuine love of web design but not the commercial process that work as a successful web designer involves. I would love to write but I don't see how that's a viable career path :( I thought after 9 months doing nothing I would know what I wanted to do but I still don't. That is getting to me.
Right now I like the idea of just doing a nice non-stressful job - I would like to work in a bookshop. I also want to keep traveling. I absolutely loved India and was very happy there. Maybe if I just get happy, get on with life, the answers will come.
Well, it's hot here today and I'm in shorts so the big issue for me right at this moment is aging. Boy it's pissing me off that I've got wrinkles, grey hair and cellulite after spending years taking it for granted that I was young and slim. It doesn't help my boyfriend is 7 years younger either! How do you come to terms with the anger when it's there every time you look in the mirror?
Debs |
Edited by - brightondebs on 01/30/2008 00:46:28 |
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Big Rob
32 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2008 : 07:46:35
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quote:
I have a genuine love of web design but not the commercial process that work as a successful web designer involves.
This sentence struck a chord with me.
I have had problems with asserting myself at work in the past. It feels like at times that while I may have had an interest in what I am doing (electronics), people driving me to produce (i.e. bosses) made me dishonest with myself (and others) about what I really want from life.
I saw myself as a child of Thatcher: deadline driven, customer focused, quality oriented. I think I killed a bit of myself to be like this.
In the end I was bullied at work and had to leave. That’s when the real pain started.
I am trying to learn from these mistakes though.
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campbell28
80 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2008 : 08:55:43
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Hurray, i'm so glad you've found a way to return to the UK without having to start work! I think it really does make a massive difference just not having that added pressure. Actually I think worrying about work etc can then turn into quite a big distraction from the stuff you really need to think about.
It has actually been really helpful for me reading your reply. I am hopeless at following my own advice, and have spent the past week or so frenetically applying for jobs and then worrying about it. I read your email just now and thought ' sod it - i'm going to sit down with a cup of tea and a biscuit and to hell with the jobs for a bit. I've had a nervous breakdown after all!' I think I really need to keep reminding myself that I am still not 100 per cent, otherwise I keep overstretching myself and then weeping all the way through my counselling sessions.
It is very interesting to hear you also felt like you had a breakdown - and that 'no-one would know it to talk to you'. I think that is a huge thing. I don't think anyone would have known it to talk to me, either ,because I am so good at being fundamentally in denial of my feelings. Despite having broken down inside, I had no idea how to actually break down on the outside - like a clock with a bust mechanism: it looks fine but it's not ticking.
The anxiety thing as well - somebody, can't remember who, wrote on the forum that he felt he had a constant level of pain or tension that had to be smoewhere; it moved around his body or, when it eased off, he felt anxious. I have definitley felt that.Although the level of pain / anxiety has gone down, there is a certain amount that seems always to be present. Sometimes, when the pain goes, I can actually feel myself or my body panicking a little bit, and I start jiggling my shoulders or flexing my wrists as if I'm scared to let the pain go completely and am wondering where it's gone. I hope eventually I will learn how to let it go and just fly away completely.
Also v interesting to hear of your own creative leanings. There is a thread somewhere on the forum about this, between a few of us who also have a creative bent and who think part of our troubles were caused by suppressing it. I think its called TMS and creativity - its probably on page 3 or 4? Funnily enough, i think I read about your website somewhere, thought ' oh i must go and look it up' and then failed to do so as i was too busy racing around like a headless chicken trying to prove something to the world.
i might actually have to go and have a lie down now. i can physically feel myself relaxing now i am not feeling like i should be sitting down and applying for jobs; its like by reading your email i have been given permission to stop pushing myself; because your experience reflects what has happened to me, and you've taken the decision not to push yourself for a bit. I'm not sure that sentence even really makes sense. i giess its just reminded me of what i've been through and that it's ok to take the time i need to get better. I have been paying my sodding taxes since i was 18; i must have forked out enough to pay for my own nervous breakdown by now.
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qso
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2008 : 09:22:18
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| Yes, I came to the same conclusion about the nervous breakdown during the midst of my TMS. I thought, 'Is this a nervous breakdown? Hmm. Strange, nobody would know, I seem to be rational and calm to the outside world. I thought you're supposed to go postal if you have a nervous breakdown and everybody would think you have gone nuts.' I read somewhere that doctors have been forbidden to use the term nervous breakdown for many years since some people with too much time on their hands decided that nobody knew what it meant. But in the modern world we are not allowed to visibly be having a breakdown -not necessarily going postal, but even to be seen to be crying in public whether male or female, at work, at home, or anywhere, so I certainly think TMS is form of nervous breakdown. In some other cultures expressing grief or crying in public is *not* so taboo as in the western world, in fact in some circumstances it is *expected* and normal to audibly and visibly express grief and sadness in public. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2008 : 13:04:03
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quote:
I've also started to notice that when I feel better physically I get really anxious - it's quite weird. I get really anxious when I try to sort through my emotional issues from the past too. I know in the past I had huge anxiety issues to the point where I just couldn't sleep and went on anti-depressants and I think that I hated that so much I created these physical symptoms in order to avoid going back there, back in "the box".
This is very common. Anxiety that I thought was gone came back when the pain went away. It is another form of the symptom imperative. Both the pain and anxiety are trying to distract you (as is depression), and the same technique can be used for both -- don't allow the distraction to occur, think psychological (and try to feel some feelings, any feelings, if you can). Since you are already in therapy it sounds like, the main thing is just not to let the distraction distract you. But it's harder with A&D than pain in some ways.
quote:
Despite having broken down inside, I had no idea how to actually break down on the outside - like a clock with a bust mechanism: it looks fine but it's not ticking.
campbell, this touched such a chord with me. This is exactly, exactly the expression of how I felt when I spiralled down the depression hole during college. No one could see how I felt. Outwardly I functioned just fine, inwardly I was frozen and dead and confused and in pain and a lot of other things besides.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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Redsandro
Netherlands
217 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2008 : 12:18:25
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I think I'm having the worst flareup since a year. I am not talking about the simptom imperatives, but a first reoccurance of RSI. A few days ago, after absorbing this topic, I became very anxious about RSI coming back. Just to be clear; not that I doubted any Sarno facts, but just 'what if it comes back anyway'? I didn't do it on purpose and I couldn't stop thinking about it.
Tadah, yesterday I got extreme pain on the pink finger side of my right arm. Just like that. This morning, first thing after waking up was discovering the stairs had been cleaned - I fell backwards and instinctively sticked my arm between the siderail and the wall to break my fall and bruise my arm a bit. The same pain was there plus my thumb being all numb just like my arms were more than a year ago, making me more anxious. (I've had some crazy crashes in my life, but cannot remember a thumb getting all numb for something like this)
I think TMS increased, starting with anxiousness, because I was thinking about my future. Rationally I think it's unfair. Some of the examples you gave included having a job and hating it. But I don't even have a degree yet; I can pretty much go in any direction when I'm done. I have no limitations yet, but I'm very anxious. I obviously have some work to do. I didn't expect a relapse for another 10 years or so.
I am open to any insights, but furthermore I want to constrain that it is important to continue the work when you're 'done' on an occasional basis, because I seem to have underestimated it.
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TMS is the hidden language of the soul. |
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campbell28
80 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2008 : 14:03:09
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redsandro: i think coming towards the end of a degree and worrying about the future could definitely be a trigger - it can be very scary. I remember when I left university feeling i had been shot out of a cannon: suddenly there was no structure and I had to make my own way in the world.
I think you are allowed to be scared and anxious about this kind of thing - don't feel that it's not a good enough reason. I think you're right about continuing the work: maybe sit down and think about why you're worried about the future.
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2008 : 12:02:25
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Finishing my college degree was my trigger for full-blown RSI. I definitely think that despite having plans, I was very worried about leaving the familiar environment and about my future. I was also effectively depressed/grieving for a month or so after finishing, to have left all my friends and places behind. It's a big deal.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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Redsandro
Netherlands
217 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2008 : 18:50:08
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You confirmed that theory. Another one is uncertainty about having to move. But like graduation, that's no sudden surprise either.
It's not too effective to journal about something I'm well aware of. The symptoms are nowhere near the severity of 2006 but you'll understand I immediately want to get rid of them again. Anxiety is playing in my head now, because there's quite some posts suggesting reoccurance of symptoms after a long symptom-free period is hard(er) to get rid of than their first.
(But it can't be as hard as a graduation! )
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TMS is the hidden language of the soul. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2008 : 09:31:15
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Remember, just because you are aware of the cause doesn't mean you are aware of all emotions around it! Journaling to speculate on the unconscious emotions may help.
Above all, you need to avoid the fear. The distraction is working if you're having fear. If it stops working, the symptoms will go away.
At least this time you don't have to stop typing! 
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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Redsandro
Netherlands
217 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2008 : 12:43:06
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Thanks.
I'll do the work, and I'll get back with an update in a little while. :)
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TMS is the hidden language of the soul. |
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brightondebs
United Kingdom
21 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 02:23:57
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Hi guys,
I'm back after a break moving countries :) I'm really glad to see this post still generating responses that are helping others. Unfortunately I'm now struggling again for a different reason. I have moved from NZ and my family back to my "home" in the UK. I still can't work so I've been staying with a friend while trying to rent out my flat. The thing is, I've been a bit sneaky. For the last 3-4 months while I've been working with Sarno I've also been gluten free....Once I got back to the UK I finally started to follow this advice and go back to eating normally:
quote:
Originally posted by qso
Make sure also that are not doing something that could be interpreted as a physical treatment as it will prevent complete recovery.
That was about five days ago and now I'm back to terrible pain in my arms and "trigger points" in my shoulders etc. I know in my heart I believe the gluten free diet was the real reason I was getting better :( How can I convince myself it wasn't? I know I have more than enough reasons for the pain to have increased for reasons other than eating gluten again. The big one being that I agreed to a freelance web design job a couple of days ago... |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2008 : 12:11:55
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quote:
How can I convince myself it wasn't? I know I have more than enough reasons for the pain to have increased for reasons other than eating gluten again. The big one being that I agreed to a freelance web design job a couple of days ago...
This is a really common form of question, and pretty much the way you ask it, it answers itself.
You KNOW the answer. But your mind is trying not to admit it.
You have to convince your mind that you're in charge and you think the reason you're relapsing is that you're in a more stressful living situation and you've accepted a job that you are not sure you really want to do.
BTW, I have never heard of trigger points and upper body pain associated with gluten allergy. It is a digestive allergy, not a muscular allergy...and gluten intolerance is not very common! TMS is very common. :-)
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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Redsandro
Netherlands
217 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2008 : 14:07:29
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brightondebs,
Sorry I can't be of more help but this:
I've never heard about gluten causing RSI-like symptoms. Gluten can cause damage to.. what's the english word? bowelfluffs, colon-wraps, "villi intestinales", which in turn makes the intestines less powerful in absorbing food. This might sound a bit silly but I've just discovered my medical english is not very good. Food deprivation makes one tired or weak. There's no way it causes muscle-pain! That's silly!
Everyone,
So far I've not gotten better, not gotten worse. But sometimes I REALLY want to massage my own arm, like I did back when. Also, sometimes I like to squeeze my arm to feel how bad the pain actually is in there.
Would you reckon these behaviours reward my brain for causing the symptoms? On the one hand I feel like it does, on the other hand, doing the described actions stops me from wondering, hence stopping the obsessive thoughts that also reward the brain.
I'm still in the game where I need to catch whatever makes my brain stressed like you need to catch that rabbit in Mario Galaxy. ^^
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TMS is the hidden language of the soul. |
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Help! Hit rock bottom with doubt and depression
