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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
 Posted - 06/03/2013 : 00:11:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Darko
Ultimately TMS people are a little screwy,
Truer words were never spoken! |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2013 : 00:19:33
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TMS is:
1) Addiction/obsession to a pain state
2) Being in an acute phase of anxiety or tension
3) In a state of denial/distraction (unknowingly)
4) Repressed fears/angers/doubts
Or a mixture of all 4, or 3, or 2. This is what I have found.
Dr. Sarno is only one piece of the puzzle. The only time that the pieces of the puzzle don't fit or shouldn't be there is when you introduce a 'physical' means of healing TMS in ANY way, which will keep TMS alive.
All other means of psychology are fair game if they work for YOU solely. Nobody has the final answer on TMS or chronic pain. It's still an ongoing mostly THEORIZED study, with mostly anecdotal evidence.
We get closer to the truth of chronic syndromes every day.
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"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans"- John Lennon
"TMS is just as afraid of us succeeding, as it is us failing" - Me |
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la_kevin
USA
351 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2013 : 00:22:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Darko
Ultimately TMS people are a little screwy, and if one isn't aware of their own little issues and egos then they play them out unconsciously. Most of the time I laugh at the childishness.....don't let it stop you
D
Ha ha....yep. There's a correlation and the real question is...is there CAUSATION?
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"Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans"- John Lennon
"TMS is just as afraid of us succeeding, as it is us failing" - Me |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2013 : 06:57:45
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In answer to the OP's question: "When did TMS become a religion?": the more you can internalize TMS theory on a heartfelt cellular BELIEF level, like RELIGION, the quicker you will get better. Surveys show most Westerners do not subscribe to any religion. In this era of agnosticism and atheism, for someone suffering the pains of TMS, the more one can BELIEVE that the pain is caused by the internal self and not some external factor, like a GERM, or an old trauma, mental or physical, the sooner they will "HEAL". In this regard, a RELIGIOUS FAITH in the teachings of the Good Doctor will hasten the "cure". Sorry about that for the religion haters. If you have a bumper sticker on your brain that says "QUESTION SARNO", I would remove it, it isn't helping you any.
Cheers & AMEN,
tt/lsmft
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8D7w0IUIPU
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
"...the human emotional system was not designed to endure the mental rigors of a tennis match." Dr. Allen Fox
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"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod =================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Dr. Sarno is now retired, if you call this number you will be referred to his associate Dr. Rashbaum.
"...there are so many things little and big that are tms, I wouldn't have time to write about all of them": Told to icelikeaninja by Dr. Sarno
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2013 : 10:17:33
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| I agree TT. You have to have nearly a religious faith in the Good Doctor in order to have the best chance to succeed. You can have "no other gods before him"...and I am not kidding. I'm not talking here about religion like Christianity, etc. - I am talking about total faith in Sarno's writings/concepts - even the blood flow thing - even the appreciation for Freud thing. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2013 : 10:26:42
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Thank you Fox, yes, funda-MENTAL-ly, you have to take a leap of faith, and BELIEVE in YOURSELF, pardon the caps.
Cheers  |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2013 : 10:38:06
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| I should clarify that I don't say you cannot supplement Sarno, only that it is truly best for you not to challenge his basic assertions - which have helped so many people, including me...I questioned Sarno for 10 years and consequently during that time had no progress in my fight against sciatica (lower back pain, butt pain, leg pain, ankle pain, and foot pain). I decided to take a leap of faith and accept his "teachings" 100% and I found that within weeks that I had a 90% reduction in the sciatica - which has lasted for years. I will also do the psychoanalytic therapy thing when I can afford it in order to remove the remaining 10% (and fight conditioning even more than I have as well - probably Fred Amir style - he supports Sarno's basic concepts - to further work on the 10%)...I have supplemented - not challenged - Sarno successfully with three fantastic books - "Hope and Help For Your Your Nerves" from Claire Weekes, "The Mindful Path Through Worry and Rumination" from Sameet M. Kumar, and "A New Guide to Rational Living" from Albert Ellis (including work with his REBT work sheets) - to work on the emotions. |
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2013 : 11:08:23
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Fox,
The problem with blindly following Sarno or any "prophet" is that it simply doesn't work for the majority of the people. Don't confuse being truly committed to healing with being committed to one specific, close minded principle.
If robotically following the "bottled rage/oxygen deprivation" concept was the only way to heal, you wouldn't have the success forum packed with stories of people using various tweaks to his method and completely different methodology all together.
People have healed from nervous conditions for decades before "uncorking rage" became vogue with a three-letter acronym. (That it's very founder eventually changed.)
If the "by the book" approach worked for you, then great. (Though judging by your thread you're unfortunately still suffering regularly?) But, I was done a great disservice by the close-minded approach to healing some here purvey. Thankfully, Balto, Hillbilly and a few others offered different viewpoints that got me moving towards wellness.
People are free to praise and criticize concepts here as they wish. |
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njoy
Canada
188 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2013 : 11:14:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Fox
I agree TT. You have to have nearly a religious faith in the Good Doctor in order to have the best chance to succeed. You can have "no other gods before him"...and I am not kidding. I'm not talking here about religion like Christianity, etc. - I am talking about total faith in Sarno's writings/concepts - even the blood flow thing - even the appreciation for Freud thing.
Interesting, I have never bought into the entire Sarno theory but did accept that my owies were mostly psychosomatic and that was enough "truth" for me to have good results. Oxygen deprivation as a source of pain sounds just plain silly, for example. Also, digging up the past is important for me but I can well imagine that dwelling on it is counterproductive.
As for TT, I have to wonder why people take him so seriously -- I did, in the beginning, long ago, but when he left for while I missed him quite a lot. He's our very own curmudgeon. Can't we all just get along? Oh, spose not. Quelle surprise! 
*****
"It's worth considering that tms is not a treatment but rather an unfolding of the self, and a way of living as an emotionally aware and engaged soul." Plum |
Edited by - njoy on 06/03/2013 11:16:54 |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2013 : 11:55:21
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| Njoy...I don't get why you think the oxygen deprivation theory is silly. What's your explanation for the physiological response? (I'm not saying that accepting this detail is mandatory to success - although it does seem to help me when I form a creative image to get the blood moving to the offending spot, and this concept does help me buy the whole package because it seems the opposite of silly - very plausible.) |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2013 : 12:01:33
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| A little more...Yes, dwelling on the past would be detrimental, but for me, some exploration of the past has been helpful...And, yes, if a serious and extended application of pure Sarno does not work for you, try modifications and new approaches, but I advise you to try straight Sarno first - admittedly this is based on my individual experience and on Sarno's own outcome studies. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2013 : 12:09:53
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| One more thing for Bryan 3000...Yes, I am still suffering regularly, but 90% improvement beats the heck out of 0% improvement...And how do you know that straight Sarno doesn't help the "majority" of people. Where is the evidence? |
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2013 : 12:29:02
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Fox,
My "evidence" is no more or less anecdotal than yours. I base mine on reading scores of people suffering here despite following the book approach... reading success stories where people almost always tweaked for found additional information to his theories.
I also base it on a number of practicing therapists I've spoken with who believe his theories are a good foundation but not gospel. In fact, I've worked with one very "connected" TMS-style therapist who talked at length about how Sarno's theories were a great start, but found flaw in some and that most doctors took bits a pieces from him.
I also know that people healed for decades without the TMS acronym. There is always more than one way to skin a cat.
So, I can pile my evidence up against yours any day, starting with a huge amount of it on this very forum. But, I don't think we need to continue. It's fruitless. My only point was that I believe it's dangerous to castigate people who have used alternative methods to Sarno's direct book cure here. Scores of people have gotten better by doing just that.
Let's allow people to take what they wish from Sarno's great work, and heal as they see fit.
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2013 : 13:09:38
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| Good response, Bryan 3000. I think we basically agree. I am just saying straight Sarno has worked for a lot of people, so any newbies would be safest starting as a purist and then deviate from that if necessary down the road...Also, I know it's very trendy to bash Freud nowadays, but I think he has a place in the treatment of SOME TSMers whose psychosomatic condition may be related to childhood stresses and resultant rage. Other psychological approaches can be helpful as well if you are trying to tame anxiety - like the cognitive behavioral therapists (I still put my money on the godfather Albert Ellis). |
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njoy
Canada
188 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2013 : 13:22:59
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Fox, I don't have any reason for thinking oxygen deprivation is silly except personal experience. I read Sarno's book and thought, "Oh, this is psychosomatic. Wow." and my very painful fibromyalgia vanished for six months. There was not an instant to clear out any oxygen in my poor aching frame. So, I don't buy it. I do get the aches sometimes but they are rare and mild by comparison. And away they go when I remind them they aren't real.
Should beginners be encouraged to take a purist's view of Sarno? I don't know but I do know I'm no purist. The worm of doubt about EVERYTHING lurks in my heart. Doesn't mean I'm incapable of trying out a new theory to see if it works for me.
The wonderful thing about this forum (and the wiki) is that everyone has a say and we can browse for new ideas to try out. As Plum mentioned, the tmshelp tends to be rough and tumble while the tmswiki is ever so polite. I love 'em both.
*****
"It's worth considering that tms is not a treatment but rather an unfolding of the self, and a way of living as an emotionally aware and engaged soul." Plum |
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Peregrinus
250 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2013 : 13:42:17
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| Sarno’s theory is a work in progress: that is why he wrote several books. Some things he has said are false and others are questionable. I think he would readily admit that. There are a lot of conditions that are discussed in this forum that he does not mention. He certainly makes no effort to identify those conditions that are not TMS related. If you boil down all that is known about TMS it is that chronic pain is usually accompanied by emotional stress. While some receive the benefit of a reduction in pain after relieving their emotional stress ( in some way) a cause and effect relationship between emotional stress and chronic pain has not been established. Why are there so many long time participants in this forum? The real value in this forum is obtained by learning from the experience of others in identifying and resolving their emotional stress. Even if the pain doesn’t go away you are happier. All these pointless arguments only create more stress. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2013 : 13:54:17
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| To continue the rough and tumble interaction - Peregrinus - what things did Sarno say that are false or questionable? And I contend that Sarno addressed just about every possible brain-generated pain disorder. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2013 : 14:03:20
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| One more thing - I wanted to mention that my obtaining "only" a 90% improvement via pure Sarno does not tell the entire story. For the 10% remaining time of pain, the pain experience is substantially less intense because I know that the pain is psychosomatic and of no real importance except for the transitory physical discomfort that I am feeling for the moment. Beforehand, I would have been panicky thinking things like, oh my god, another disc has ruptured or I did something that is making my back worse or do I need more back surgery or do I need to go back to the chiropractor? Now, I may experience the pain for a while, but I know deep down that it will end within hours or days and I can accept this situation calmly and get on with my day. |
Edited by - Fox on 06/04/2013 17:01:57 |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2013 : 14:20:53
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| I just read closely what Darko said in the first post. What he said that Scott Brady wrote on page 8 of his book is the same thing that Sarno was saying - it's Sarno's basic reservoir of rage concept - too much rage because of the combination of subconscious memories plus the stress of current life spills over into TMS psychosomatic symptoms. So what Darko was working with was pure Sarno. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2013 : 14:29:21
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| I hate to keep blabbing on and on, but I just read Art's post where he implies that Sarno says everyone must dig into their subconscious. What I remember Sarno writing was that only roughly 10% of his patients had to do that. He only recommended psychoanalytic therapy/exploration of the subconscious for the 10% who did not improve after using his program. |
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When did TMS become a religion?
