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Darko
Australia
387 Posts |
 Posted - 06/02/2013 : 17:17:01
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Peeps,
as someone who has posted on and off for years now I get frustrated with this forum.
Firstly these are my observations and you can say or think what you want, I don't care. I always stay away from the silly stuff on this site but it's starting to have a negative impact I believe.
TT and others....might serve you better if you chillout a bit mate. TMS is different for everyone and you have to let people have their journey.....even if you think it's wrong. Try and contribute by example, which builds credibility. You can be right or you can be happy, I don't see what the point of the hostility is......
I happen to very much agree with HillBilly and have always appreciated his posts. For me tension was to key to my TMS pain. Once I got this I was able to become pain free. When my tension goes up then so does my pain. Does that mean Sarno was wrong....Maybe, maybe not. Maybe he figured out something, and missed a little part, who knows and really, who gives a toss??!!
I think it's important we focus on the results and not on the "Dogma" I got results by following what HB, Monte and Scott Brady talked about. Interestingly Scott called it "Autonomic Overload Syndrome" and this is/was a Sarno TMS guy.
Page 8 of " pain free for life "
"AOS is a group of chronic pains and other symptoms caused by harmful levels of stress, pressure, and repressed strong negative emotions that have been built up in the subconscious mind"
I have another equation for it.
Negative thinking = negative thoughts you can't and don't want to experience = TMS pain.
That my friends is what healed me.....and a few others from what I see. Did Sarno originally heal me??? YES.....BUT IT WAS TEMPORARY!!!!! I tried the same stuff for years with no luck.
The really sad thing is......the people that are healed and know how to get pain free get sh*t on because they bring an approach that is somewhat different.
Eg...I think diet is important. How can you become painfree when you have a crap diet and a low on energy.....do you think this supports healthy, happy and positive thinking???.......I don't think so.
But the moment I mention it, I get dismissed......despite the fact I know how to get pain free......I find this laughable. We need people on this forum like HB but he doesn't want to stick around cause of the crap......I can relate.
Remember what mummy said kids....If you can't play nicely then you shouldn't play at all.
Just the observation of someone that doesn't post much anymore.
Good luck
D
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Edited by - Darko on 06/02/2013 17:26:22 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2013 : 17:46:06
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" TMSHelp.com
TMS (Tension Myositis Syndrome*):
Pain that can be severe and debilitating in the muscles, tendons, ligaments and nerves of the lower back, buttocks, legs and sometimes neck, shoulders and other parts of the body. Dr. John Sarno theorizes that TMS is a defensive reaction of the mind to prevent expression of repressed rage and anxiety and that the pain is created when blood flow to the tissues is restricted by the autonomic nervous system.
*Also known as Tension Myoneural Syndrome or more recently, The Mindbody Syndrome.
"The most important factor in recovery is that the person must be made aware of
what is going on...information...is the 'penicillin' for this disorder."
------ Healing Back Pain by John E. Sarno, M.D."
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The above is directly quoted from the TMSHelp Home page, if you disagree with the theory why bother coming here. Also, this is not the only TMS site on the planet. There is the TMS Wiki also, if you don't like it here or you specifically don't like ME, as you have singled me out, you are free to go there.
Regarding nutrition, I just attended a a MINDODY event by Dr. Lissa Rankin MD, she was introduced by the host who did a pitch for "nutrition". The first thing Dr. Rankin said was "It's not about nutrition". No where in the Good Doctor's books do I recall him saying changing eating habits will heal one from TMS.
Cheers Mate & Good Bye
tt/lsmft
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8D7w0IUIPU
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
"...the human emotional system was not designed to endure the mental rigors of a tennis match." Dr. Allen Fox
======================================================
"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod =================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Dr. Sarno is now retired, if you call this number you will be referred to his associate Dr. Rashbaum.
"...there are so many things little and big that are tms, I wouldn't have time to write about all of them": Told to icelikeaninja by Dr. Sarno
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
Edited by - tennis tom on 06/02/2013 17:59:32 |
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2013 : 17:57:10
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Tremendous post, Darko. It's a free forum and most have healed using their own tweaks to the theories. Thankfully, the majority here seem to agree with you which is why so many have found help here. Like you, I owe a great deal of my healing to the free-thinkers around here who led me to the right info.
Take care. |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2013 : 18:17:18
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I find it beneficial to get a variety of perspectives on mindbody issues, and I don't think it's helpful to suggest that people who disagree (if that is even the right word) with strict Sarno orthodoxy should leave. The moderator clearly has not chosen that direction.
Regarding Darko's point about dogma, it did confuse me as a new poster when answers to questions were framed as fact or dogma rather than as opinion or personal experience. I thought for some time that I just was not smart enough to "get" it, although I came to see it was really just people expressing sometimes conflicting opinions. |
Edited by - pspa123 on 06/02/2013 19:00:30 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2013 : 18:55:43
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I was quite hesitant to express my own opinions on TMS as I began to find my way, and it became ever clearer to me that psychosomatic pain is very often stress induced. Two things worked to encourage me to speak more boldly.
1: The overwhelmingly obvious fact that so many people on this forum suffer from hypochondria and health anxiety. These people are generally not going to be helped by being urged to plumb the depths of their subconscious minds to get to the bottom of their repressed rage. The whole notion became more and more antiquated to me.
2: The fact that many people were being urged to do just that. I realized the best way for me to help those people was to call it like I saw it.
It's important to understand these are not outlier or radical opinions. A quick Internet survey will reveal that professionals are increasingly understanding...and treating psychosomatic pain as a stress disorder...that it consciously experienced stress. No one is expressly disavowing repressed emotions as another causative factor, but it's clear which way the wind is blowing.
. Most practitioners now recognize consciously felt stress as a direct causal agent... in addition to repressed emotions. In clinical practice moreover, it is my understanding that the emphasis is frequently on consciously experienced stress, rumination, and worry.
http://www.tmswiki.org/ppd/Terminology_for_TMS/PPD
Alternative Names for TMS
Automatic Overload Syndrome (AOS): Dr. Scott Brady developed the term AOS to describe chronic conditions, which he discusses in his book Pain Free for Life. Brady defines AOS as a group of chronic pains and other symptoms caused by harmful levels of stress, pressure, and repressed strong negative emotions that have built up in the subconscious mind. The symptoms of AOS include back pain, headaches, irritable bowel syndrome, insomnia, and other chronic conditions. Brady focuses on stress and pressure that builds up in the autonomic nervous system, which causes these conditions. [Brady, Scott. Pain Free for Life. New York: Hachette Book Group. 2006. pg. 8]
Mind Body Syndrome (MBS): Dr. Howard Schubiner calls the condition of having chronic symptoms caused by psychological factors as MBS. Schubiner says "MBS is caused by a complex set of neurological connections between the brain and the body, rather than a disease localized in one area of the body." MBS symptoms include chronic pan syndromes, such as tension headaches, back pain, fibromyalgia, and Myofascial Pain syndrome, as well as autonomic nervous system related disorders such as irritable bowel syndrome and Reflex sympathetic dstrophy. Other symptoms are also included in MBS like insomnia, Tinnitus, Anxiety, and Chronic fatigue syndrome. [Schubiner, Howard. Unlearn Your Pain. Pleasant Ridge: Mind Body Publishing. 2010. pg. 8-19]
Stress Illness: Dr. Dave Clarke has coined the phrase Stress Illness to diagnose conditions that are chronic and caused by psychological factors of stress and the repression of emotions. Clarke argues that there are five different kinds of stress that create physical symptoms such as childhood, current, traumatic, depression and anxiety disorders. Clarke argues that other names such as psychosomatic and somatoform disorder suggest that the patient's symptoms are either not real or are part of a psychological disorder instead of being cause by stress. Clarke writes "Sufferers are often unaware of the nature or degree of the stress that makes them ill. Symptoms can occur anywhere in the body and can be just as severe as symptoms caused by any other disease, but x-rays and blood tests cannot detect the cause." [Clarke, Dave. They Can%27t Find Anything Wrong. Boulder: First Sentient Publications. 2007.] |
Edited by - art on 06/02/2013 19:01:07 |
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Darko
Australia
387 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2013 : 19:02:37
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TT
quote:
if you disagree with the theory why bother coming here. Also, this is not the only TMS site on the planet. There is the TMS Wiki also, if you don't like it here or you specifically don't like ME, as you have singled me out, you are free to go there.
This is exactly what I'm talking about!!
WHERE did I say I didn't like you?????? I just said CHILLOUT instead of making EVERY SINGLE comment that doesn't follow the "Dogma" about you. It's like you have this massive story going on and you need to be defensive, and have a go at people. Just relax mate....I'm saying it might be better to have your positive input as opposed you getting grumpy when people don't agree with your beliefs....even if you ARE right.
You have this need to tell everyone to leave...why?? What are you afraid of? I accept we.....or others might not see eye to eye on everything but I don't have a problem and am open to hearing what people say....if i don't agree I skip it. I don't feel the need to get sh*tty about it, or make them wrong and then tell them to piss off ......I don't remember seeing the part in the Terms and Conditions that said if I didn't agree with you or Sarno 100% I had to leave. Just have a look and see what's going on for you.
My posts are with all due respect.....I don't have the time or am I interested in any type of disagreement.
Just relax......there is no need for the drama. Ultimately this forum isn't about me or you or anybody else, it's about everyone getting something for themselves through others experiences
Peace
D
I never said TMS pain was related to diet, and never will because it's not! What I DID say was that you can't have a healthy positive state of mind when you have a crap diet.....big difference I would have thought. You cannot heal from TMS pain without a healthy, positive, stress-free state of mind.....and I absolutely stand by that comment
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Edited by - Darko on 06/02/2013 19:17:25 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2013 : 19:19:36
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Ultimately it's about helping people get better by UNDERSTANDING the principles of Dr. Sarno, if you'll want to turn it into a big pity party or a TMS dating service feel free but on occasion it would be nice to get some TMS info out there too. I am relaxed, you seem to be the one who's not.
Cheers Mate |
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Darko
Australia
387 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2013 : 19:38:46
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Art.......
Good on you! I agree scratching around for repressed emotions was completely pointless for me.....changing the way I thought so i didn't create the negative emotions in the first place is what makes the difference.
Bryan, thanks!
D
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2013 : 20:12:16
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Great points Darko, and Art nailed it...
Now, this is purely my opinion from reading thousands of posts and dozens of success stories here... but I'd estimate that roughly 10% of the people here truly benefit from chasing around "repressed rage" and trying to "uncork the reservoir" of emotions. Even worse... trying to predict what their subconscious is up to at any given moment, creating elaborate schemes and dramas about how it did this... then I did this... then it did this.... etc.
Furthermore, of that 10% who seems to benefit from the "oxygen deprivation/repressed rage" approach... almost 100% of of them state that they got better primarily by losing fear of the symptoms.
Which of course, brings us around to Art's point that so much of what you see here is anxiety, health anxiety and other various forms of worry, fear and emotional trauma... pent up, feared and expressed as physical and mental pain/strain.
Again, the good news is that aside from a few book-sellers and a tiny minority, no one here seems all that interested in the whole dogma.
This isn't North Korea. It's a free health forum about mind-body pain. People are free to defend, protest and tweak Sarno's theories as they wish. Thankfully, most here are more interested in learning and helping others than selling books or engaging in TMS mind-control.
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NextAdventure
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2013 : 20:18:39
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Actually there is a lot of sound research that once you know your past, revisiting old painful emotions just reinforces the neural pathways leading to more stress and perhaps more TMS.
You have to understand that Sarno was in an belief era of self-caused cancer and the misguided theory of Freudian repression still in power. We know now that drug addicted Freud had some good insights ( didn’t we all on LSD and Pot) but postulated an inner dimension that has been shown not to exist or at least does not lead to healing. Sarno got a glimpse of truth and then wrapped in his own story informed by the present day beliefs.
I can hook a patient up to biofeedback and ask them to recall a painful memory and see in seconds the stress response expressed in multiple body systems. PTSD is the brain stuck in retroactive painful memories.
Doing psycho-archeology is only useful to understand how we arrived at our present personalities and then move on. It has been proven time and again that there are no catharsis turning points or great epiphanies in regressive therapies.
If you look at a SPECT scan of a person recalling a troubling thought the brain HPA axis lights up and a flood of stress chemicals is elicited. The brain has no time awareness when it comes to a threat...which is what a painful memory is.
35 Years ago when I started working in the anxiety disorders field body pain was a given. It was called an anxiety/tension state. Today we wrap it in a new story and call it TMS or fibromyalgia.
TMS is being stuck in autonomic dominance and regressive therapy can keep it there |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2013 : 20:26:21
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How many IDs does one man need??
And according to your profile you are 48, did you start to work in the field of anxiety disorders at 13??
"35 Years ago when I started working in the anxiety disorders field body pain was a given." |
Edited by - pspa123 on 06/02/2013 20:28:47 |
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NextAdventure
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2013 : 20:27:52
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I find the oxygen depravation theory interesting and flawed. When a person it under stress the stress chemicals and hormones cause the blood vessels to dilate to provide oxygen and nutrients in huge amounts in preparation for the muscles to run or fight. This is done through the HPA axis. When this group of brain organ are activated they tighten up muscles in preparation to run. The chronic activation of the HPA axis is TMS not lack of oxygen.
The pain is not oxygen depravation and in many cases it is carbon dioxide blow off (reduction) from chest breathing. When you breathe fast, shallow or from the upper chest you reduce the amount of carbon dioxide that is necessary to calm the nerves and open blood vessels for more blood flow. Too much oxygen actually causes muscle tension and neural excitation.
I think Sarno missed a physiology 101 class. |
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Darko
Australia
387 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2013 : 20:34:28
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NA, that's some interesting points you have there. Do you have any articles you can point me too so I can have a read?
Cheers
D |
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NextAdventure
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2013 : 20:34:48
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Andre is my step son who is 48 ands who's account I am using because my log in is not working
I am 67.
What is your purpose pspa123 in being the forum detective. People only do personal attacks when they are threatened or have low self esteem and need to bring someone down their level...perhaps a place fertile for your TMS exploration. |
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NextAdventure
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2013 : 20:41:58
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Darko
This is the most basic physiology we learned very early on in med school. Google carbon dioxide and neural excitation or blood flow
Arterial carbon dioxide tension (PaCO2) is a potent modulator of blood flow at rest and during exercise. More precisely, CO2 dilates blood vessels. Accordingly, an important reduction in CO2 levels in the blood, usually observed during intense exercise or stress, is associated with constriction of blood vessels (cerebral vessels included) and consequently, a reduction in cerebral blood flow. This lowering in CO2 levels in the blood is a consequence of hyperventilation which also causes muscle tension and nerve cell excitation.
Respir Physiol Neurobiol 155: 133-89. DOI:10.1016/j.resp.2013.04.14 |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2013 : 20:47:26
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So neither of your prior IDs is working? I see.
The better question though is what is your purpose in making your repeated pronouncements about the supposed dangers and inefficacy of depth psychology approaches and then refusing to engage in dialogue when James Alexander and others challenge you on your assessment?
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Darko
Australia
387 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2013 : 22:07:00
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NA,
I assume this is what you're taking about
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPrm4sBFt1Y
While it seems you're correct with what you said, could Sarno also be correct? He states oxygen deprivation as the cause....I don't think he says why that happens....so could it be that person is stressed and breathing fast....thus oxygen deprivation?
Interesting stuff either way.
D |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2013 : 22:29:32
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Gosh this is getting scary, members mistrusting other members, squabbles over whether to endorse or not to endorse people, some self proclaimed Gods here saying that their way is the only right way. Some big egos here.
I am less on this forum now because of all the above. It makes me uncomfortable to read some of what is posted here & sometimes its darn right confusing trying to make sense of what's going on in terms of people undermining each other.
The other day I just gave up in disgust.
Not to say that there aren't some good things too but I don't care much for the atmoshere.
Anyway that's how i feel.
Mala
Mala Singh Barber. I'm on facebook. Look me up
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2013 : 22:30:24
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No where does Dr. Sarno say it is necessary to dig deep into your past to unearth psycho-traumas. One only needs to understand the theory that the pain is benign and JUST DO IT? Dr. Sarno says that only a small percentage of patients need therapy.
A lot of you should just re-read your Sarno and you could be out of here instead of spinning your wheels debating non-issues. Just for the record, I'm totally TMS "cured" which is a contradiction to TMS since how do you know you won't need it for PROTECTION again someday when your reservoir of rage fills to overflowing from suffering some of the events on the Rahe/Holmes list. I'm not here for any other reason then I'm interested in the topic, improving my typing skills, vocabulary and punctuation.
NA, A1S, Ric, thanks for explaining your multiple monikers, how are you doing anyway?
Cheers,
tt/lsmft
(Posting from North Korea on a TMS book sales tour, learning chi-gong TMS mind-control methods from Kim Jong-il himself.) |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2013 : 22:44:25
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No worries Mala, it's only a TV screen and can't hurt you. I would recommend checking out the TMS Wiki, they have a "SUPPORT" forum that may be more useful for you. There's an Indian lady who posted here today, Anurada, who you may be able to help, she's new to this.
Cheer,
tt/lsmft |
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Darko
Australia
387 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2013 : 23:20:54
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NA, I did some further scratching and found the following.
http://www.normalbreathing.com/CO2-natural-muscle-relaxers.php
Very interesting, thanks for sharing what you did....I learnt something and understand the science behind the importance of correct breathing.
Mala,
I started posting around 2007 I think, and since then I have seen plenty of silly business on this site. I think ultimately it's what drives most people away. Do what I do and just avoid it, and make sure you're posts are in contribution.
Ultimately TMS people are a little screwy, and if one isn't aware of their own little issues and egos then they play them out unconsciously. Most of the time I laugh at the childishness.....don't let it stop you
D |
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When did TMS become a religion?
