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kenny V

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2012 :  06:39:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
here is an interesting article By Dr. Mercola on pain medication.
Of course add in/apply Doctors Sarno's techniques and what ever else you may have learned on this Journey.

Imo once you can let go of the things holding you back and do the real work behind our condition then we are on our way to get better.
Rem: most Dr's treat symptoms NOT the underlying condition. JMHO if we are honest with ourselves, willing to do the homework we will indeed get better as we discover our own condition.

Wishing everyone good health / healing/ great spirits and ,well being for the holidays

Always hope
kenny
v



http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/11/28/prescription-drug-death.aspx?e_cid=20121202_SNL_MS_1




quote:

By Dr. Mercola

Deaths from prescription drug overdoses have been called the “silent epidemic” for years, and now, with one American dying every 19 minutes from an accidental prescription drug overdose,1 it’s being described as “the biggest man-made epidemic in the United States.”2

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, associate chief of neurosurgery at Grady Memorial Hospital and CNN's chief medical correspondent, recently highlighted the gravity of this issue, as many Americans don’t think twice about taking powerful pain-relieving drugs like morphine and Oxycontin.

But if you thought there was a chance they might kill you... the situation would most certainly change, and that’s why getting the word out about this leading cause of death is more important now than ever before.


Prescription Drugs are Killing People Every Day

The face of drug addiction in the United States is changing, and a significant number of older adults, particularly those in the baby boomer generation, as well as teens and young adults are struggling with both illicit and prescription drug abuse.

One of the most commonly abused drug classes are painkillers (opioids) like morphine, codeine, oxycodone, hydrocodone and fentanyl. These drugs are not only addictive, they can lead to slowed breathing and death if too much is taken, and the risks are compounded if you add alcohol to the equation.

Congressional testimony from the American Society of Interventional Pain Physicians stated that Americans consume 80 percent of the pain pills in the world,3 and once you start, they set off a cascade of reactions in your body that make it difficult to stop.

Dr. Gupta reported:4

“ …after just a few months of taking the pills, something starts to change in the body. The effectiveness wears off, and patients typically report getting only about 30% pain relief, compared with when they started. Even more concerning, a subgroup of these patients develop a condition known as hyperalgesia, an increased sensitivity to pain.

As you might guess, all of this creates a situation where the person starts to take more and more pills. And even though they are no longer providing much pain relief, they can still diminish the body's drive to breathe.

If you are awake you may not notice it, but if you fall asleep with too many of these pills in your system, you never wake up. Add alcohol, and the problem is exponentially worse. People who take pain or sleeping pills and drink a couple glasses of wine are playing Russian roulette.”


Two Tragic Stories of Prescription Drug Deaths

Fatal prescription drug overdoses actually surpassed car crashes as the leading cause of accidental death in 2007.5 Many of the overdoses (36 percent) involve prescription opioid painkillers, which were actually the cause of more overdose deaths than heroin and cocaine combined. To put this into perspective, in 2009, nearly 29,000 people died from unintentional drug overdoses, which is the equivalent of losing an airplane carrying 150 passengers and crew every day for nearly 6.5 months – a scenario that would simply be absolutely unacceptable in terms of public health risks.6

Since it's all legal, no one is really cracking down on this growing drug problem that is wrecking lives each day. How could they, really? The U.S. government has done everything in their power to aid Big Pharma's influence and profits, and you can't increase drug sales while dissuading people from taking them at the same time.

Overdose deaths are highest among men and those aged 20 to 64. Steve Rummler, 37, for instance, received a prescription for hydrocodone to address his back pain, along with clonazepam, an anti-anxiety medication, for injury-related anxiety. He soon became dependent on the drugs, and then addicted, noting that while at first the drugs were a lifeline, “now they are a noose around my neck.”7

Hydrocodone, a prescription opiate, is synthetic heroin. It's indistinguishable from any other heroin as far as your brain and body is concerned. So, if you're hooked on hydrocodone, you are in fact a good-old-fashioned heroin addict. But most people assume that because it’s a “prescription” drug, it’s safe, or should not carry the same negative stigma as a street drug.

This is, sadly, far from the truth. Even after completing two addiction treatment programs, Rummler had a relapse and died at the age of 43 from mixed drug toxicity.

In other cases, the damage occurs much more quickly. Eighteen-year-old Emily Jackson took a single Oxycontin pill while drinking with a cousin, and that night died of respiratory depression; she stopped breathing while she slept.8


75 Percent of Patients Taking Popular Blood Thinners Are Given Wrong Dose

It’s not only people who are addicted to painkillers who die from accidental overdoses. Some are also harmed when taking drugs at doses prescribed by their physicians. In a study presented at the American Heart Association Scientific Sessions 2012, researchers from the Intermountain Medical Center Heart Institute revealed that 75 percent of patients taking Plavix or Effient, two common blood-thinning drugs, may be receiving the wrong doses, which would put them at risk of uncontrolled bleeding or blood clots.

Earlier this summer, Dr. Barbara Starfield from Stanford, who was responsible for deriving the data for the headline, Doctors are the Third Leading Cause of Death, tragically died from the wrong dose of Plavix.

While a simple blood test could determine whether patients’ blood is clotting properly, an indication the medication’s dose is appropriate, the test is not widely used.

The fact of the matter is, adverse drug reactions from drugs that are properly prescribed and properly administered cause about 106,000 deaths per year,9 making prescription drugs the fourth-leading cause of death in the United States. And more than 2 million others will suffer serious side effects. When you compare these statistics to the death toll from illegal drugs -- which is about 10,000 per year -- you can begin to see the magnitude of the problem the legally prescribed drugs versus recreationally used drugs, it is TEN times worse.


Make Drugs the Last Resort for Your Pain

Many of those succumbing to prescription drug overdoses started taking the drugs not to get high, but to control pain – often back pain. If you are suffering from pain, I suggest you work with a knowledgeable health care practitioner to determine what's really triggering your pain, and then address the underlying cause.

Remember, along with exposing you to sometimes deadly risks, medications only provide symptomatic relief and in no way, shape or form treat the underlying cause of your pain. But you don't need to suffer unnecessarily while you get to the bottom of your pain issues. The following options provide excellent pain relief without any of the health hazards that prescription (and even over-the-counter) painkillers carry:
Emotional Freedom Technique (EFT), which is a drug-free approach for pain management of all kinds. EFT borrows from the principles of acupuncture, in that it helps you balance out your subtle energy system.

It helps resolve underlying, often subconscious, negative emotions that may be exacerbating your physical pain. By stimulating (tapping) well-established acupuncture points with your fingertips, you re-balance your energy system, which tends to dissipate pain.
Astaxanthin: One of the most effective fat-soluble antioxidants known. It has very potent anti-inflammatory properties and in many cases works far more effectively than many anti-inflammatory drugs. Higher doses are typically required and one may need 8 mg or more per day to achieve this benefit.
Ginger: This herb has potent anti-inflammatory activity and offers pain relief and stomach-settling properties. Fresh ginger works well steeped in boiling water as a tea or grated into vegetable juice.
Curcumin: In a study of osteoarthritis patients, those who added 200 mg of curcumin a day to their treatment plan had reduced pain and increased mobility.10

A past study also found that a turmeric extract composed of curcuminoids blocked inflammatory pathways, effectively preventing the launch of a protein that triggers swelling and pain.11
Boswellia: Also known as boswellin or "Indian frankincense," this herb contains specific active anti-inflammatory ingredients. This is one of my personal favorites as I have seen it work well with many rheumatoid arthritis patients.
Krill Oil: The omega-3 fats EPA and DHA contained in krill oil have been found by many animal and clinical studies to have anti-inflammatory properties.
Bromelain: This enzyme, found in pineapples, is a natural anti-inflammatory. It can be taken in supplement form but eating fresh pineapple may also be helpful.
Cetyl Myristoleate (CMO): This oil, found in fish and dairy butter, acts as a "joint lubricant" and an anti-inflammatory. I have used this for myself to relieve ganglion cysts and a mild annoying carpal tunnel syndrome that pops up when I type too much on non-ergonomic keyboards. I used a topical preparation for this.
Evening Primrose, Black Currant and Borage Oils: These contain the essential fatty acid gamma linolenic acid (GLA), which is useful for treating arthritic pain.
Cayenne Cream: Also called capsaicin cream, this spice comes from dried hot peppers. It alleviates pain by depleting the body's supply of substance P, a chemical component of nerve cells that transmits pain signals to your brain.
Methods such as yoga, acupuncture, meditation,12 hot and cold packs, and even holding hands13 can also result in astonishing pain relief without any drugs.


Always Hope For Recovery

Peregrinus

250 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2012 :  07:45:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kenny V:
The Mercola article says:
quote:
"Fatal prescription drug overdoses actually surpassed car crashes as the leading cause of accidental death in 2007."
I recently read that more people die of poisoning than from automobile accidents and that most of these poisonings are from illicit drugs. I find it difficult to believe that 30,000 people die each year from prescription drugs. The incident that sparked the creation of the FDA involved a home remedy that was mistakenly contaminated with poison and that killed about 15 people; mostly children. If the Mercola article is correct perhaps the whole idea of an FDA needs to be rethought.
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kenny V

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2012 :  08:25:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Peregrinus

Kenny V:
The Mercola article says:
quote:
"Fatal prescription drug overdoses actually surpassed car crashes as the leading cause of accidental death in 2007."
I recently read that more people die of poisoning than from automobile accidents and that most of these poisonings are from illicit drugs. I find it difficult to believe that 30,000 people die each year from prescription drugs. The incident that sparked the creation of the FDA involved a home remedy that was mistakenly contaminated with poison and that killed about 15 people; mostly children. If the Mercola article is correct perhaps the whole idea of an FDA needs to be rethought.



Years ago I studied and invested some time learning how the FDA operates , how a drugs are approved and what goes into clinical trials..
How they collect data get drugs approved ect........

The FDA are puppets CONTROLED by BIG PHAMA and the VACCINE MANUFACTURES.

sobering example. ( can take 4 years of clinical trials for a New shampoo) ....But ONLY TWO WEEKS for a NEW vaccine to be allowed to be injected in a human being .
Worse part is they can mandate it it too... They use skewed data along with scare tactic campaigns that creates fear of false epidemics pandemics.. . All for sake of the almighty dollar. Like that NEW WORD Pandemic . ( look it up study its origin)


All I can say is whooa!!!! We have know idea
They are puppets CONTROLED by BIG PHAMA and the Vaccine manufactures.
Btw a few laws were stuck in the patriot act.. Home land National security and other places That Give . NO LIABILITY TO THE VACCINE MANUFATURES.
Right there What does that tell ya ? BINGO
!!!!!!!!!


MOST ALL DATA APPROVAL, ECT>>>>>> are influenced by Money driven motives. Its not about health and well being . Like anything else spend some time investigation what has/ is happening over the years. Do a time line and history event of reactuions drugs and vaccines that have been pulled off the shelf and why? ... Go back in history, and follow the money trail . Allot to learn Folks

The FDA is not some big brother agency looking out for our interests/ safety …. Its not what you think The fact is we are the clinical trials and Guinea pigs, while they allow The white coats to practice medicine, with laws to protect their liabilities.

The FDA are puppets CONTROLED by BIG PHAMA and the VACCINE MANUFACTURES.
FACT :
A few laws were snuck in the patriot act.. Home land National security act and other places That Give the RIGHT AND NO LIABILITY TO THE VACCINE MANUFATURES.

Right there What does that tell ya ? BINGO!!!!!!!!!


Always Hope For Recovery
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Back2-It

USA
438 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2012 :  09:04:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Dr. Mercola would have more credibility about a lot of things, if he were he not pushing every type of "customized" supplement, bearing his brand.

Nothing wrong with making a buck, but explain the difference between his telling people his krill oil is better than the rest vs the push the Big Pharma puts on Doctors who monetarily benefit from prescribing a certain drug? Philosophically, nothing is different; medically, the drug might have a more adverse effect than the krill oil, but, as we all know, just because something is "natural" does not make it good for you.

In addition, in my opinion, there is a difference between pain and the "second fear" of pain and clinical depression and depression brought on by years of misdiagnosed pain.

If recognized early enough, the anxiety and fear of normal bodily sensations can be nipped in the bud by the understanding of it, but unfortunately in today's medical world, pain, sensations, GERD, you name it are automatically slotted over to the specialist, who can draw no conclusions. Rare is the doctor who will say "you are anxious", and then, even if they do, the patient misunderstands and is insulted, thinking they are being told the very real pain "it is in their heads". Fear builds.

Sometimes people are so scared, so anxious, that they do need some type of med to calm them, because they are not able to think rationally.

I am not so sure the anti-depressant of a any of the type is the right thing. I am prepared to say two things: One, sometimes a med should be the first line of attack, so you can process information, and, secondly, that that med should be the old fashioned "sedative" medication, such as Valium. Oh, yes, it can be addictive, but so are the anti-depressants, no matter what your doctor tells you.

In most cases, the person with TMS/anxiety pain is not a person with an addictive personality. They are just plain scared sh--less (or sh--full), depending on your symptoms .

Are meds the cure? Absolutely not. It is mental work that has to be done, and that is and individual adventure. Also, TMS doctors have to explain to certain patients what happens when muscles tighten and pain gets referred to far off places in the body, so as physical activity resumes, the patient is not frightened into stopping. Okay, the pain may be "benign", my shoulder muscles are tight, but why does my chest hurt. See?

My first clue or appreciation that my problems were TMS/anxiety were when I took that benzo and the pain and symptoms almost entirely vanished. Prior, I had been given every type of pain med except opioids. Nothing worked. They never would have worked, but I understood that benzos worked on you CNS and that they worked on contracted muscles. Ah, ha. So my horrible herniated disc was not the culprit?

You see, it is not the same shoe for everyone. The "snap out of it" crowd exists even in the mindbody world.

Mercola works on fear, mostly. I get his newsletter, and it always is something like, "Eat this and you will get Cancer". Maybe so, but his solution in many cases is advertised in the first one-third of his page.

BTW, I am feeling fine, too. But my journey was very complicated due to an operation that "could" have caused nerve damage to the same area where the "referred" pain from my horrible, herniated thoracic disc was located. I mostly stay away from the forums, because, personally, I have to, as I am very suggestible type of person. Something else I learned on my TMS journey.





"Bridges Freeze Before Roads"
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balto

839 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2012 :  09:58:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Back2-It


I mostly stay away from the forums, because, personally, I have to, as I am very suggestible type of person. Something else I learned on my TMS journey.




This is just MHO, I do think vulnerable to suggestibility is also a symptoms of tms/anxiety. Before, visits to health forums used to produced symptoms in my body, now I just laugh at it. Before, my regular doc's back suggery suggestion (or else) used to scare me to death for weeks, now I just smile and politely tell him I'm going to wait. Before, Drug commercials on TV used to make me worry, insurance commercials used to make me think about increasing my insurance coverage... now, I just laugh.

I think what helped me is exposure therapy and seeing the truth in my own body's capability. Trust in my own body and mind. Going into these health forums I just tell myself that the people there don't know the truth yet, they are ignorance, they need to be "save"...

most people in the third world countries don't have health insurance. Some places don't even have medical care within 100 miles of where they live, they're not worry why should I.

People worry about not having enough to pay for their kids college cost. I wash dishes and waited table to pay for my own, worst come to worst my kid can do the same.

People worry about their house is going to burn down, their car will be in an accident. They affraid to travel to asia because they may get malaria, dengue fever... They affraid their spouse is going to cheat on them, they will fail this and that, the world is going to end on 12/12/2012... haha, we'll see. I have enought to worry about. My wife is going to cut my allowance this month.

I'm not going to do stupid, risky things but I'm not going to let some health forums or insurance companies to scary me.

------------------------
No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience.
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kenny V

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2012 :  10:09:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Back2-It

Dr. Mercola would have more credibility about a lot of things, if he were he not pushing every type of "customized" supplement, bearing his brand.

Nothing wrong with making a buck, but explain the difference between his telling people his krill oil is better than the rest vs the push the Big Pharma puts on Doctors who monetarily benefit from prescribing a certain drug? Philosophically, nothing is different; medically, the drug might have a more adverse effect than the krill oil, but, as we all know, just because something is "natural" does not make it good for you.

In addition, in my opinion, there is a difference between pain and the "second fear" of pain and clinical depression and depression brought on by years of misdiagnosed pain.

If recognized early enough, the anxiety and fear of normal bodily sensations can be nipped in the bud by the understanding of it, but unfortunately in today's medical world, pain, sensations, GERD, you name it are automatically slotted over to the specialist, who can draw no conclusions. Rare is the doctor who will say "you are anxious", and then, even if they do, the patient misunderstands and is insulted, thinking they are being told the very real pain "it is in their heads". Fear builds.

Sometimes people are so scared, so anxious, that they do need some type of med to calm them, because they are not able to think rationally.

I am not so sure the anti-depressant of a any of the type is the right thing. I am prepared to say two things: One, sometimes a med should be the first line of attack, so you can process information, and, secondly, that that med should be the old fashioned "sedative" medication, such as Valium. Oh, yes, it can be addictive, but so are the anti-depressants, no matter what your doctor tells you.

In most cases, the person with TMS/anxiety pain is not a person with an addictive personality. They are just plain scared sh--less (or sh--full), depending on your symptoms .

Mercola works on fear, mostly. I get his newsletter, and it always is something like, "Eat this and you will get Cancer". Maybe so, but his solution in many cases is advertised in the first one-third of his page.

BTW, I am feeling fine, too. But my journey was very complicated due to an operation that "could" have caused nerve damage to the same area where the "referred" pain from my horrible, herniated thoracic disc was located. I mostly stay away from the forums, because, personally, I have to, as I am very suggestible type of person. Something else I learned on my TMS journey.


"Bridges Freeze Before Roads"




I have to Play ( Garry and devil's advocate) one of our founding forefathers of this Forum and say
That's a funny statement cuz most TMS'ers have additive personalities to start off with.
If im not mistaken it was one of the discoveries Sarno made learning about Tms model.

Again Early in Sarno's Carrier he suggested pain management but an refined it to only a few cases latter on in his career. He said often times it hinders the helaing process.

Yes sometimes u need to ease the pain to get some mobility take the edge off . However to be healed from TMS pain you need to get to the underlying condition. Like Sarno said the information becomes the penicillin to help heal the body.



I respect what u say but disagree about what Dr. Mercola presents and whats behind his motives . He's not all about the money and blatantly lies to cash in. Thats what the REAL enemy does. BIG Pharma /Vaccine manufactures)
His objection is health and well being and to educate the public in how to get better yourself.

Now with that said I will say that if you tract things like quack watch ect.. they are ALSO after anyone who Rocks the boat or becomes a whistle blower. Folks who go after phama, food industry, health and nutrition . Yup even have to watch what they say. .. One reason is Quack watch is FUNDED BY BIG PHAMA ( dont let anyone fool ya)

anyhows Off course like any good research and making informed choices we take not one reference as all Gospel . Its up to use to do the investigative work to find out if products Drugs , supplements are good quality, help with specific conditions and or for better health. and preventive maintenance



Now I will agree he pushes his products ( esp his own) as almost anyone in the vitamin/ health and nutrition industry does. In fact everyone is trying to cash in did ya notice last 10 years. .. That is because the WORD IS OUT . HEALTH AND NUTRITION works .

However that is not his MAIN agenda … He does put the cookies out on the lower shelf to let the kiddies get em and gives information a far chance. Now its up to us to separate the wheat from the chaff.



Always Hope For Recovery
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Ace1

USA
1040 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2012 :  12:12:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I dont think supplements are necessary for good nutrition. I give Iron to people on a regular basis, and some do not have any reason for them to require so much. I have had someone work on their mind and their iron requirment decreased dramatically. I think the body is very good at obtaining what it needs from food alone as long as you have a somewhat balanced diet (saliors used to get scurvy, Vit C def, after traveling for months on a ship without citrus fruits)
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kenny V

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2012 :  13:03:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ace1

I dont think supplements are necessary for good nutrition. I give Iron to people on a regular basis, and some do not have any reason for them to require so much. I have had someone work on their mind and their iron requirment decreased dramatically. I think the body is very good at obtaining what it needs from food alone as long as you have a somewhat balanced diet (saliors used to get scurvy, Vit C def, after traveling for months on a ship without citrus fruits)



Of course its best to get direct from Whole foods . Point is we dont get enough from our food Americans are the fattest sickness drug dependent people on the planet.
. Our crops are toxic, spayed with pesticides. The soil has been depleted of its vitamins. Most food now is genetically modified. I can go on but dont think it would help on this one.


Yup great example sailors were dropping like flys and the medical community was in denial that supplementing Vit C would be the cure.
Now on the other hand you read on back of labels that “ This product has NOT been approved or evaluated by FDA to treat cure or prevent any disease. or sickness” wonder why.. ?

Cuz we all know that is not true many foods supplements indeed will help prevent cure sickness and disease.
But of course Big pharma don't want ya to know that . They want you sick and drug dependant


Always Hope For Recovery

Edited by - kenny V on 12/03/2012 13:05:26
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pspa123

672 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2012 :  15:04:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't advocate the indiscriminate prescription of pain killers by any means (or antidepressants or statins, for that matter), but neither do I believe that supplements such as those Dr. Mercola lists (ginger, curcumin, etc.) are effective against serious pain.

I generally like Dr. Mercola's point of view, as I am very skeptical of big pharma/big medicine in certain respects, but find him a little too quick sometimes to embrace conspiracy theories or unproven modalities.
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Peregrinus

250 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2012 :  17:36:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pspa123

neither do I believe that supplements such as those Dr. Mercola lists (ginger, curcumin, etc.) are effective against serious pain.

I agree that supplements should be avoided. Unlike prescription drugs they are unregulated. If they find poison in a batch they do not report it! Many companies buy their crap in bulk from places like China! Ugh! Most of these supplement companies are backroom operations so that if you try to sue them they disappear. I’m convinced that people are dying from this junk which by the way has no proven health benefit.
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pspa123

672 Posts

Posted - 12/03/2012 :  17:43:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I take a few supplements myself, but by and large I agree that a large segment of our society seems to have developed an undue fascination with them, in part no doubt due to some of the same slick marketing tactics that the pharmaceutical industry employs. For example, every month, Life Extension Foundation is touting some new supplement and putting forth a scientific article to support its use. But if you read the fine print and footnotes, the evidence is usually pretty flimsy -- a small uncontrolled pilot study reported in some Indian journal for example.


As I have posted elswehere, I have my serious doubts whether all the folks on the various chronic disease message boards are going to eventually cure themselves by finally finding the precisely right supplement regime.

And even aside from potential contamination which has proven to be an issue with l tryptophan for example, with supplements people seem to think there are no potential side effects or interactions which is not true.
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kenny V

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2012 :  07:32:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Somewhat agree but you miss the point . I don't want to debate .. here . And im not selling anything to anyone but info to those willing to consider .

Now the only thing I am advocating is to treat the root issue Yes with a TMS approach. . Painkillers and Antidepressants are not the root issue or Fix for TMS and its complications.


It is a fact that we are NOT healthy to start off with and a host of other issues can be helped and or get jump started/ repaired by proper health and nutrition..Im talking about good ole common sense and bare basics . Now Its gets more complicated the more problems are being treated and the small ones are over looked.

The bottom line is often we miss the simple bare basics of good health by complicating it by throwing stuff that treats the symptom rather than the underlying condition.


And that goes with GI issues, detoxing the body , aiding the over burdened systems that are NOT working properly due to OTHER health issues. Go back to the basics and get them in order . If an overweight person has a host of Allergies, GI issues, digestives complications and has a bad knee/leg on top of it . Then all the diet pills, stuff for their GI, yeast etc.... Rx and medications is not going to resolve their health issues.

They need to start to take care of them self and do the maintenance and discover the root issues why they are a mess.

*** Key point here.*** As far as TMS or the Overweight problem in the first place, they need to resolve WHY they over eat . The root issue to solve and replace whats is making them sicker. . . Its a change of lifestyle not an under-active thyroid problem.



OK with that said , For the record for folks who want to know what is going behind the scenes regarding FDA .

Sure everyone wants to make money on selling something And yes that vitamin industry has gotten big over the past few years. Folks are catching on . However we still need to be smart make wise choices. . But that is up to us to do research on products before we buy them.

The FDA does not TEST ANYTHING . Learn how they operate . They approve and look at the data provided, consider clinical trails . However they are heavily influenced by those who have financial ties to the ones presenting these trials. Get the facts straight . Again the FDA are the puppets of big Phama and the Vaccine industry

Big Phama wants control over the supplement industry NOW. They been trying to take control and require script for the past 10 years. Do your research on it. The problem is they cant put patents and make money on natural elements that heal the body. Hope that made more sense.

If not than im sure Some of the Bill Gates major disrupt the internet info campane has leaked into this forum. Yea he has paid millions to do this. One of the reasons I don't bother with health forums much anymore either.
Good health and well being to everyone
Kenny v


Always Hope For Recovery

Edited by - kenny V on 12/04/2012 07:38:00
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pspa123

672 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2012 :  10:12:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The FDA is far from perfect, and I know from personal experience that big pharma has its excesses, but to state that the FDA are "puppets" controlled by big pharma as though it were a "fact" is just plain silly and diminishes your credibility. As a lawyer I have read many transcripts of FDA advisory panel meetings on drugs and devices, and reviewed many communications between the FDA and drug and device manufacturers. Very hard questions are asked, and very thoughtful consideration is given, and big pharma often does not get its way. Many drugs submitted by big pharma do not get approved, or get taken off the market due to post-marketing events, for example. The truth is usually far more complex than conspiracy theorists want to acknowledge.

Edited by - pspa123 on 12/04/2012 10:14:29
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kenny V

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2012 :  10:56:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pspa123

The FDA is far from perfect, and I know from personal experience that big pharma has its excesses, but to state that the FDA are "puppets" controlled by big pharma as though it were a "fact" is just plain silly and diminishes your credibility. As a lawyer I have read many transcripts of FDA advisory panel meetings on drugs and devices, and reviewed many communications between the FDA and drug and device manufacturers. Very hard questions are asked, and very thoughtful consideration is given, and big pharma often does not get its way. Many drugs submitted by big pharma do not get approved, or get taken off the market due to post-marketing events, for example. The truth is usually far more complex than conspiracy theorists want to acknowledge.




Information is free and knowledge is applied wisdom. And history in itself can teach many lessons.
Anyone can do a time line of the many Drugs/ vaccines adverse reactions and so on . Mainly the names in history of these drugs vaccine appoved then puled off the market and WHY ?????????????

Other counties even less fortunate of the “ Freedom of info Act” have much to say about a time line of the Drug approval/ removal and adverse reaction report. Dont go there with me ….

Comon Lawyer lol........ any good detective can follow the money trail ,most times it shows were/ why the CRIME may have been committed and or the motive behind it.


Let me ask 2 Questions to you Lawyer

Why did they pull Viox ( sp)? of the market?


Here is another one for ya .
The USA provides somewhere about 80% of the medical RESEARCH around the world...

So let me ask and honest Question again so who funds it?



Always Hope For Recovery
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kenny V

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2012 :  11:14:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pspa123

The FDA is far from perfect, and I know from personal experience that big pharma has its excesses, but to state that the FDA are "puppets" controlled by big pharma as though it were a "fact" The truth is usually far more complex than conspiracy theorists want to acknowledge.





***last but not least but PLEASE ANSWER THE FIRST 2 QUESTIONS FIRST***
How bout a Bonus Q that deserves an HONEST yet SOBERING answer for everyone

Why in the world would the MOST SUCCEFUL / LARGEST SOFTWARE GIANT IN THE WORD HAVE an INTEREST in recently BUYING a vaccine company ?


Always Hope For Recovery
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pspa123

672 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2012 :  11:19:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I honestly don't understand what you are saying and there is no point in debating this further. People are free to believe what they want to believe, and conspiracy theorists always do. The very fact that Vioxx was pulled based on post-marketing experience shows that the sponsor did not control the FDA. And as I said many drugs don't make it through the approval process in the first place, because your "puppets" either don't believe the drugs are safe or they aren't convinced of their efficacy. Does the FDA make mistakes? Yes, of course it does. In part, it probably doesn't have enough funding, and sometimes as in all walks of life there is inexcusable human error. Would it be better if there were, magically, a pool of scientists and doctors smart enough to make decisions on drugs and devices who somehow got to that point in their careers without ever having had affiliations with drug companies? Sure, but how do you propose making that happen?

But if you like your "puppet" theory better than the nuanced reality, you should believe what you want to believe.

Edited by - pspa123 on 12/04/2012 11:29:31
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kenny V

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 12/04/2012 :  12:26:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pspa123

I honestly don't understand what you are saying and there is no point in debating this further.

But if you like your "puppet" theory better than the nuanced reality, you should believe what you want to believe.



Avoidance of all the Q's I see Oh!... I forgot ….. yea thats right yure a lawyer ...lol........
why not now send a paid Puppet to further distract the “truth” from the first 2 Q's then ill look bad again...


Now friend I am trying to think logically with you perhaps and ask a few honest questions in reason .

In all fairness I think you should TRY to answer to the best of your ability , but try not to avoid the original questions presented. Promise I wont bite


let me help you now and lets look at the first Q for a second

Was Viox removed from the market from the FDA or did they voluntary remove their product?

Please give an Honest answer

Wait a second now
Did in fact the clinical studies presented to the FDA
PRIOR to the FDA regulation and approval process indeed showed adverse reactions cardiovascular problems with use of the drug ?


Go ahead set the record straight

Now let me ask What Company markets Viox ?

And At that time what was their #1 and #2 money making drug that was being sold?

Again Why was Viox approved then removed from the market ?
ahum … now I think u are loosing your creditability

Always Hope For Recovery

Edited by - kenny V on 12/04/2012 12:58:05
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Back2-It

USA
438 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2012 :  00:02:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A word of explanation: I stay away from the forums, as I mentioned, because I freely admit that I am susceptible to suggestions at this point. Not so much as before, but I am not years away from the pain cure and from understanding anxiety. And the wisest contributers on here strongly advise to get on with your life and live it and keep to a plan.

Another reason, is I have very little to contribute that is not said better by others. Not a low opinion thing, but just fact.

The one issue I do wish to hammer home is that TMS/anxiety sufferers, who are having bodily symptoms, especially muscular, nerve and tendon, must understand what exactly that does to a body.

If a MindBody doc is going to claim that title MIND & BODY, the doctor has to advise that the pain is psychogenic and, because your shoulders and paraspinals are like rocks and rails, you are liable to feel pain and stiffness and god-knows-what-else in distant parts of your body. Pronouncing somebody "okay" and "healthy" is just not enough for SOME,especially when the supposedly effected parts are causing pain in a far off area. This is obvious to many, I suppose, but not to some. It was not to me. Not fully counseling on what the bodily symptoms will do is, in my opinion, just like the allopathic doctor pronouncing that your malady is a "physical" problem only. Maybe this is done my some TMS docs and not thought necessary by others. This is just my opinion.

As far as addictive personalities and TMS/anxiety, I think it is too broad a statement to say that many or most people who suffer it have addictive personalities. How are you going to work on a person's mind if they are, essentially, out of their minds? Saying your problem is psychogenic, while you are blitering on about dying and disease, and wracked with pain, is nice in theory but lousy in practice.

I also personally do not believe that most anti-depressants work to settle a persons thinking, whether it is placebo or not. Most anti-depressants will come with the two to three week warning that it takes time to work, and may cause increased anxiety. Often, Ativan or another benzo is prescribed side-by-side but tapered after the two to three weeks. If you are taking meds and never really have the knowledge that will "cure" you, you will always be switching meds to find that magic bullet. Or, worse, losing hope and doing something horrible to yourself.

Mercola, I'm sorry. He is the Medical Black e-Hole appearing on your screen each morning, warning you that one more drink of tap water and that's it for you, buddy. Fear sells. He is light on scientific proof and will hawk his branded supplement every chance. Not to say that he does not provide some nuggets of truth, but a stopped clock is right twice per day as well.

There is no template for cure; each person must structure his own, once they understand what is going on. Sadly, many pain-wracked people never understand their problem.




"Bridges Freeze Before Roads"

Edited by - Back2-It on 12/07/2012 23:10:20
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kenny V

USA
268 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2012 :  06:57:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pspa123

I honestly don't understand what you are saying and there is no point in debating this further. People are free to believe what they want to believe, and conspiracy theorists always do. The very fact that Vioxx was pulled based on post-marketing experience shows that the sponsor did not control the FDA. And as I said many drugs don't make it through the approval process in the first place, because your "puppets" either don't believe the drugs are safe or they aren't convinced of their efficacy. Does the FDA make mistakes? Yes, of course it does. In part, it probably doesn't have enough funding, and sometimes as in all walks of life there is inexcusable human error. Would it be better if there were, magically, a pool of scientists and doctors smart enough to make decisions on drugs and devices who somehow got to that point in their careers without ever having had affiliations with drug companies? Sure, but how do you propose making that happen?

But if you like your "puppet" theory better than the nuanced reality, you should believe what you want to believe.



And for my Lawyer friend that has yet to give a fair response about How the FDA operates within its power. What gives the FDA, CDC , WHO or NIH, AAP authority , supervision to dictate what is “SAFE ” or for that matter to advise recommend, regulate or even MANDATE the population to get a vaccine.

LAST Question than no further Questions we will let the jury decide

So what constitutes rectifying the problem ???????????
Is it How many people have to die, get sick or suffer a major adverse reaction that leads to a life long disability before somethings done ?

Or is it how much money is lost in lawsuits versus profit ratio,before a change in suspending the product is even considered ?



THINK ABOUT THIS HOW DOES THE FDA PROTECT US
If their is no accountability to vaccine manufactures and its not enforced to Big Pharmaceutical GIANTS . Than how can we say they are out for our best interest when they just slap a few fines instead of putting these criminals in jail?

You are the Lawyer how do hold these folks accountable ?
By penalizing them financially ….. Thats supposed to work? When we dont even have proper laws in place protect the innocence. Sure they create compensation programs ( pay offs) to cover themselves, However most families dont receive compensation . Besides they cant bring back a loved one …. Meanwhile who gets rich through the process ? Good one Lawyer


********* LAST POINT ******
So if thy knew during the first two phases of the clinical trials people suffered from a major adverse reactions and even death occurred

So who decides if the vaccine/ drug is safe for others to use?

At what cost and how much is a life worth?


Always Hope For Recovery
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tennis tom

USA
4749 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2012 :  08:12:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Welcome back Kenny V and well said Back2-It!

==================================================

DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g

TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale

Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605

==================================================

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti

"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown

"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst

"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto

"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
======================================================

"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod

=================================================

TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035


Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm

Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist


Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html
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pspa123

672 Posts

Posted - 12/05/2012 :  08:28:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Kenny, given your point of view you probably know of Dr. Russell Blaylock, if not I think you would very much enjoy his perspective on things.
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