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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
 Posted - 09/10/2012 : 11:16:28
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Hi Ace1,
A while back you told me that my right hip was TMS. I sincerely wish to believe this as I've used TMS thinking to resolve a myriad of conditions instantly or in short order. But my hip is still stuck and as I'm nearing a new age group for Senior Tennis, I want to start actively playing tournaments again. It's time for me to **** or get off the pot on this one. I'm accosted on a daily basis by well meaning people who think I'm nuts for not having hip-replacement surgery. Most recently, at a "fun" tournament, a retired surgeon took it upon himself to relentlessly admonish me to have the surgery.
I recall reading in Dr. Sarno's books somewhere him saying to the effect that joint replacement surgery is one of the marvels of modern medicine. I have also been dx'ed through imaging by two "TMS" doctors, trained under the Good Doctor, that what I have is significant arthritis, not TMS and to "have surgery sooner than later". So, this is going well over ten years now.
Ace, you've told me here that Dr. Sarno says hip arthritis is TMS. I'd like to TRULY believe this and get back to running again. How do you resolve the huge NOCEBOS I've been given by two TMS doctors and what I've read in the TMS books saying how marvelous HRS is?
EDIT: Serendipitously, as I'm writing this, there's a commercial on the Tennis Channel by an ambulance chasing TV law firm, soliciting business for defective metal-on-metal hip implanats...how timely!
Thanks for a reply,
tt |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2012 : 19:30:37
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| Ha ha, that's funny about the commercial. Tt, just bc it hasn't gotten better doesn't mean it's not TMS. I had a very difficult case in myself that really took a long time and finding out what is helpful and what is not. Would you mind if I run by you things that you may not be doing right and maybe if you did them you might have a change in your symptoms? First, none of this is a fight or trying to "challenge" your symptoms in other words if in pain don't go trying to do more with the symptomatic area I think that keeps it alive. You have to gradually start doing more as your body will allow (remember John campabello on mbp). When in pain accep your symptoms as your friend and messenger and use the affirmations of relaxation at that time. Secondaly the most important thing in my change was the affirmations I used to bring my hyped mind down. Look at my success story to see which ones they were. You have to do them almost all day but especially around sleep and give them the time they need to work. Think of you symptoms as more of a strain than anything else, therefore everything done with your mind and body has to be done with ease, comfort, forgiveness and patience. You may want to get the power of the now, bc it helps a person learn how important it is to be patient or in the now. I actually think that this is the biggest cause of TMS in ths society. Read mind power to see how the affirmations work. You have to so try your best to eliminate all negative talk and thinking to the best of your ability. Monitor your inner reactions as best as you can and try not to react to the things that would normally affect you. Always try to act not react. Do all of these all day to the best of your ability and give it the months that it needs and I am sure your hip will get better. Now as you see it does take a lot of work in a way but I think tough cases like yours will need what is mentioned above, which is what I needed. Good luck. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2012 : 19:31:55
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| The way to overcome the nocebo is to use affirmations to the opposite effect. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2012 : 19:37:24
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| By the way the cure is not something that happens directly bc you did something. It happens kind of like a fading away as you work on the psychological mentioned above. You cannot make any direct effort to make your symptoms go away. It's all done indirectly |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2012 : 08:01:45
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TT, it all come down to your belief. If you believe %100 that there is nothing wrong with your hip and you are healthy then if it is truly tms, you will be cure.
we tmser's usually got stuck in the middle, don't know what to think. Some guys with 20+ years of schooling and 10 years of experience said you really need surgery. Another guys with the same 20+ years of schooling and years of tms treatment experience said your hip is fine, it is just tms. What are you going to do. Who are you going to believe?
we have to make a choice here.
I don't know about you, when I make that choice usually it is depend on how much time I got left if I delay going the conventional path. If the MD tell me that I have a stroke or my heart valve is defect and I need immediate surger or I'm going to have a massive heart attack, I'm going to run to the hospital right away. But if he tell me I do have sometime, I can wait a while longer, then I will try my best to treat it the tms way. If my life is not in immediate danger, tms will be my choice.
Just like lyme disease, I'm still in the undecided camp, I will use my tms knowledge to deal with it and at the same time going with the conventional treatment.
until someone invented a machine that they can stick you in there and when you come out they can tell you that: hey, remember that on Oct, 28, 2005 when you came home all drunk and your wife kicked you out of the house. That anger had release 20 oz of cortisone in your blood stream that caused anxiety. It also tensed the back muscle in your back to 49% of normal range and restricted blood flow to your back which cause back pain.... Until then we tmser's will have to make difficult choices and wish for the best.
If what you have is truly tms/anxiety and you truly believe it is tms/anxiety, you will be cure. Once you truly believe a %100 it is tms/anxiety, all your negative feelings about your symptoms will disappear then your symptoms will leave soon after. Everything all the tms expert tell you to do are all tools that try to convince you that point. Mind power techniques, meditation, yoga, self talk, praying, visuallization,... are all tools to help us achieve that belief.
In your case, you have delayed your hip surgery for 10 years(I think you have mentioned this in one of your post), that tell me it is not a life or death situation, then if I were you, I would deal with it the tms way for a couple months. The past ten years doubt has been in your mind continuously, if somehow you can get rid of that doubt and make your mind truly believe it is tms, you will be cure.
Will power using affirmation like Ace1 had recommends and acceptance like Dr Claire Weekes taught are in my opion the 2 most powerful tools we can use to deal with our emotion. I found that for me will power worked best in case when you want to achieve something or gain something and that "something" is achievable. Like when you want to win a game, be successful at work, be more calm and relax... Acceptance worked best when you have to deal with something unavoidable like in cases of lost a loveone, no amount of WP will make that person come back to life. Or when if you broke the law and were sentenced to 20 to life, no amount of WP will get you out of jail, acceptance would help in cases like that.
So try to really really accept that your hip pain is tms. Truly believe that it is tms. Fake it if you can't. Push all negative thoughts about your hip out of your mind as fast as it get in. Use will power, use acceptance non stop to convince your poisoned mind that it is tms. Try your best for 2 months and see if that would work for you. But you have to really really try, no half a.. effort.
I talk too much today. Hope this can be of some help.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2012 : 10:44:09
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Ace and Balto, thanks for your thoughtful replies, I will reread them and give more thorough replies--but right now I got to go play tennis! I have done most if not all you'll suggest for years now. I did Yoga for about 15 years and actually it was two asanas that helped trigger my initial pain. My main question is what to do when TMS doctors DISAGREE on the DX and treatment? In my case two Sarno trained TMS doctors saying it's NOT TMS, things Dr. Sarno has written in his books lauding hip replacement surgery, Dr. Sopher in his books saying hips are TMS to keep running and playing tennis and ACE who has also studied with the Good Doctor saying it's TMS-- can you see why I'm conflicted? They keep running the commercial for failed HRS on the Tennis Channel constantly too, which helps with a nocebo against getting HRS. Oh, what to do?--I think I'll go play tennis and get back to this later.
Cheers |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2012 : 18:16:40
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Hi Tom,
I have read many of your emails that exude experience and knowledge. Thank you for your contributions. I know you have emphatically quoted the good doctor and believe him 100%.
I just found Dr. Sarno’s quote on page 113 of HBP, where he quotes hip surgery as; “one of the triumphs of reconstructive surgery”. He also describes the wear of the cartilage and overgrown bone. He does indeed laud hip surgery when necessary; on the same page he also gives an exception to this. I see your conflict.
I see you still play tennis and run. If your hip was bad enough for replacement you wouldn’t be able to, IMHO.
Are you using the “wanting to play in tournaments” an excuse to succumb to surgery? Is TMS playing a mind trick on you by making you desire “tournament level fun and success”? Are you being too competitive for your age? (Sorry for that one).
Deep down you know, but can’t bring it to the surface. Perhaps you are in denial because the surgery option is hovering in the background, and has done for ten years. Ace1’s self talk and affirmations and Balto’s self acceptance comments could come into play here to help decide the conflict.
My wife has two terrible arthritic knees, she has had them for ten years, and she is in constant pain and had six surgeries to date. She is knowledgeable about the failure rate and the surgery facts and figures and has been offered knee replacement many times over. Only one doctor said to her; “The decision is awfully final.”
She wishes she could walk,tennis would be out of the question for her, and so we kayak and swim instead. If you didn’t get to play in the tournament it wouldn’t be the end of the world.
Good luck I wish you well.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Taking a break from Wiki Edu. due to windsurfing priorities
Charlie horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted soon.)
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
Edited by - andy64tms on 09/11/2012 18:18:29 |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2012 : 20:16:25
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| I have also read that hip surgery is one of the most successful surgeries; something related to the way the ball and socket fit so snugly and securely in place...unlike the shoulder, which is free-floating; held in place only by muscles and tendons or even the knee, where the tibia and femur are not directly connected, but again, held in place by surrounding tissues. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2012 : 10:08:49
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Thank you all who have replied, Ace1, Balto, Andy and Wrldtrv. I will ingest them and reply soon. Andy, thanks for digging up the quote by Dr. Sarno about HRS, that was the one I was referring to that creates lingering doubt in me. I gotta' go now to do a few laps of back-stroke in the pool to stretch out, read a page of SteveO in the hot-tub and then--what else--hobble around the courts.
Hope y'all get out there today and JUST DO IT! |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2012 : 20:13:11
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TT,
I too have read the bit about hip replacement in HBP & am confused. It would seem that Sarno himself is not too sure about this one.
You have been on this forum a long time, even longer than I have trying to resolve the issue of yr hip. Here is what I think.
You say that you wish you could TRULY believe that the hip IS TMS & go running. I don’t understand. You keep saying JUST DO IT, you keep telling others to believe, you have been reading SteveOs book saying how great it is - well why don’t you just do it & start running? What is stopping you? At least you will know one way or the other whether it is TMS or not.
The fact that you have been to see 2 TMS doctors both of whom have recommended surgery is significant. If surgery is required it would make sense to have it sooner rather than later. Have it while you are young & strong enough to recover fully & go into it with full conviction that you will recover & have a better quality of life than you do now.
A healthy body is an expression of a healthy mind. The 2 are intertwined but also separate. Things do happen to the body that need to be recognized, diagnosed & taken care of. Not everything is TMS nor does it have to be.
As much as we love having you here on the forum, it would be better if you were spending more time playing tennis & living life to its fullest & just checking in here from time to time with your words of wisdom.
Andy I read your post & am awfully sorry to hear about Sheila's knees. I don't know how old she is but my mom had both knees replaced at the same time when she was 73. I wish she hadn't left it so long but the health system here will only do it when they deem it necessary & so she decided to wait instead of going private.
It wasn't easy especially at her age and on hind sight maybe doing it one at a time may have been better but the doctor didn't want to put her under twice. She stayed in hospital for about 8 days and then was moved to a rehab clinic where she stayed for 5 weeks doing intense physio & rehab. I think that helped a lot. After that she was sent home & told to keep as active as possible. It took nearly 9 months to a year but then she was able to walk around with no pain. She is 80 now & is still doing well. She is pain free.
Hope this helps
Mala
Honestly, I sometimes really get fed up with my subconscious. It's like it's got a mind of its own.
Alexei Sayle
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Edited by - mala on 09/14/2012 00:54:10 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2012 : 10:10:32
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Hi All,
Being a TMS procrastinator, I've been waiting to write the perfect reply responding and not slighting anyone. So here goes, I'm semi-retired so my time is mostly my own. I am in a long-term relationship and as with most TMS'ers that's probably the major underlying source of the repressed/suppressed rage. Tennis is a game and I'm not going to get a hip-replacement just to play a game. To answer Mala's question, why don't I just do it and run--I do try nearly everyday to run on the court but the excruciating pain stops me. After playing I now use a cane to get to get home. I do run in the pool for 30 minutes and after that my hip loosens up enough so I don't need the cane. If this is TMS, I want the breakthrough to happen on the court--but if it happens overnight in my sleep that's OK too, I won't complain. I've often thought of having an "accident" that unfreezes my hip joint and cracks the calcification of the arthritis--that is if it is arthritis. But, you can't plan these accidents, you have to fall over a curb or down a flight of stairs spontaneously.
I've witnessed many players with hip replacements and just played with one who has had two AND two revisions and he played pretty well, I wouldn't have noticed anything unusual about his gait if he hadn't of told me. The recovery time for the surgery is months and I don't want to quit playing that long. I've also met and heard about some who have died of "routine" HRS or had unsuccessful outcomes and were in more pain then before. I've given thought to arthroscopic surgery but been told it's too late for me. I'm waiting for the arthroscopic docs to keep "practicing" and improvements in the technology so someday it will be like doing a deeper root canal. I don't think this is that far off.
Other then not being able to play singles I play quite a bit much more than most. But I am slowly gaining weight which probably effects my self-confidence more than my performance. Functionally I have great difficulty bending over to tie my right shoe, some of which is probably my stomach getting in the way. I have a pair of velcro shoes stashed away for the day I may not be able to bend that far but hope it doesn't get to that. Regarding the recent discussion here on overeating, medicating with food for soothing is definitely a part of the TMS complex of behaviors. In the meantime I have enough game due to good technique to be able to play at a high level for rec/fun tennis with older pros. One major thing that keeps me going is that I am still improving like a junior. I really enjoy getting better and if I could be speedy like the old days, I feel the score would be a wash because my technique would not have been forced to improve to compensate for the lack of mobility. For example I played really well yesterday as a sub in a rec match, wowing my partner and opponents and making me feel real good about my shots. My TMS has been one of my best coaches and has also showed me who my friends are--darn few players like playing with the guy who can't move. I remember a friend of mine who was the best player in SoCal in his age-group, now deceased, played against guys like Pancho and all the rest. I watched him play in tournaments in the desert. After hitting a winner, he would pull-up a little and all the peanut-gallery would have to say is, "If Lefty could only run!" But he always won the tournament. It's like people who look over a beautiful classic car and immediately point out the tiny imperfection, a scratch or a door ding. Most people will only be looking for the imperfections in others, I guess it makes them feel better about themselves.
So there's some explanation for what I'm thinking. I gotta' get ready to play so that's all for now, but the weekends coming and I'll dig down some more.
Cheers |
Edited by - tennis tom on 09/14/2012 10:16:42 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2012 : 09:13:02
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Hey TT,
Truthfully. I don't get what all the angst is about. You've seen two qualified md's with TMS training and you've been given their verdict. What's the point of getting a second, and as it turns out confirming opinion of you're not going to rely on it?
You've been tormented by this painful hip for at least as long as I've been on the forum...7 years or so. You've applied TMS self-treatment to many other symptoms and have had great success in doing so. The hip sounds if anything, like it's gotten worse.
Do yourself a kindness and get the surgery. |
Edited by - art on 09/15/2012 09:15:10 |
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SteveO
USA
272 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2012 : 12:34:57
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I understand TTom's angst. I feel for him deeply. He has seen the pain worsen in people who had the hip surgery. He also knows that TMS itself can be worse than a hip replacement. He also knows that just because a TMS doc says he needs surgery doesn't mean he needs it.
So he's struggling to add the most quality to his life that he can, without getting greedy and possibly taking away some current quality. It's a very tough decision. His main problem is that he understands TMS too well. He knows, as Ace said, "just bc it hasn't gotten better doesn't mean it's not TMS." It could be that TTom just knows too much. Ignorance at times is soothing bliss.
So he's reaching out for something to help him make his decision. But I feel that he's made it already, unconsciously.
I will call you soon TTom, let's hash out a game plan.
Steve |
Edited by - SteveO on 09/15/2012 21:29:40 |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2012 : 13:03:08
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| My case was a severe case and just because it's a severe case only means you haven't treated the right thing or whatever has caused your TMS is so engrained in your personality that it takes more or a different kind of work. Get the power of now and follow it to the tee and follow the affirmation advice and don't challenge the hip at all. Play tennis as if you had nothing wrong with your hip not in a way of forcing to be good. The people have been cured all are telling you not to have a replacement. Why bc it'll just shift to something else eventually it doesn't have to be pain but could be something internal. I will ask anyone on this thread especially the ones recommending hip replacement, what is it that leads to good health till old age? Is it genes, is it luck?is it how strong you are physically ? No way, it is only a good emotional inner state and living in the present that does. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2012 : 13:16:43
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| Excellent Steve, I just saw your reply. I agree with your assesment 100% Anyone on this thread, please don't take this personally, but I think the best advice is coming from someone already cured. Why? This is bc the person knows what they were doing wrong and what it actually takes to get better. For example, I'll tell you that when I was at a 80% level I thought that fighting symptoms was the right thing, I was clearly wrong. I tried to wait until I knew how to cure myself before I offered definitive advice. Good luck to everyone |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2012 : 11:26:36
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Thanks for your continued support and suggestions one and all. Art, HRS is always an option, I'm eyeing all those I know who have had it for their results. But it's only tennis and I've been able to stop the limp in the past after walking for 20 minutes. The problem is tennis is stop and go, I don't sit down on the cange-overs because then it would lock up and would take 10, 20 minutes to unlock again.
Ace1, thanks for your suggestion of Eckhard Tolle's book. I had the pleasure of seeing him speak years ago and found him to be a beautiful gnome like man. I haven't read his book but will get a copy. I like your approach to TMS/psychosomatic dis-ease--that most everything can be connected to the mindbody, including, what inattention caused you to step in front of that bus.
Balto, interesting that your brother's a doc. It sounds like John Stossel and his brother all over again.
SteveO, I'll give you a call soon and find out what your program for me is. I'm all the way up to page 106 now. I may need to hire you on as my coach--or buy a container load of your book to put in my rooms, next to the Bible and the Book of Buddha. In the meantime, I've got to get my game face on (and find my wheel-chair) because I signed myself up to play in a pro-am this weekend, playing with and against the Bryan's and hopefully partnering up with one of my favorites, Rennae Stubbs. This should be an interesting tennis adventure, wish me luck.
Cheers |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2012 : 09:19:56
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TT,
just to rephrase, I did not mean that I don't literally understand your angst. Because of course I do. It was my inelegant way of saying that from my point of view, right or wrong, the wiser course of action seems clear. To tell you the truth, I admire your willingness and determination to pursue the TMS angle just as far as you're able.
I'm a professional poker player, so I often tend to look at life in terms of probabilities, and risk/reward. If I were a betting man (which I am), I'd put your odds at being happy with the surgery (if you eventually get it) at 90 percent. I'd put your odds at finding meaningful, lasting relief through mind/body techniques at 10 percent, if that.
Again, and as ever, my humble opinion only.
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Edited by - art on 09/20/2012 09:23:39 |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2012 : 20:04:30
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quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
Ace1, thanks for your suggestion of Eckhard Tolle's book. I had the pleasure of seeing him speak years ago and found him to be a beautiful gnome like man. I haven't read his book but will get a copy. I like your approach to TMS/psychosomatic dis-ease--that most everything can be connected to the mindbody, including, what inattention caused you to step in front of that bus.
Balto, interesting that your brother's a doc. It sounds like John Stossel and his brother all over again.
Eckhard Tolle's the Power of Now has audio version too TT, you may find it more convenient listen to it in the car than reading it. I find it very helpful and relax.
Within my immediate family and extended family we have 5 doc's, 4 dentists, 1 pharmacist, 1 optometrist, 1 buddhist monk, and 1 low life salesman (me). Accept for the buddhist monk, not a single one of them believe in tms. My own mother is going under the knife this october to have knee replacement. I have tried for years to educate her about tms, but I failed. The other family members even think because of me her condition is getting worse, I made her waited to long to fix her arthritis knees. I have helped many in my own community here, but I failed to help my own mother. :(
I even asked her doctor if he has seen anyone with similar Xray and have no pain. He told me he has seen a few, but those are just a lucky few, somehow the pain signals don't reach their brain. :)
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2012 : 10:04:28
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quote:
Originally posted by balto
...Eckhard Tolle's the Power of Now has audio version too TT, you may find it more convenient listen to it in the car than reading it. I find it very helpful and relax.
...Within my immediate family and extended family we have 5 doc's, 4 dentists, 1 pharmacist, 1 optometrist, 1 buddhist monk, and 1 low life salesman (me). Accept for the buddhist monk, not a single one of them believe in tms.
Thanks for the tip on Tolle, I like to listen to TMS tapes while driving, I got a lot out of Schechter's cassettes.
It's good that your family has one person who's down to earth and grounded in reality (you).
Cheers,
tt
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jennypeanut
103 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2012 : 00:11:06
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You can take this for what it's worth, as I don't know much and don't claim to know anything special... yet.
My dog had a hip replacement. His breed is notorious for arthritis. He is a dog. He cannot have TMS. He could barely walk before the hip surgery, needed to be lifted up after lying down. That was something like 7 years ago. After healing from the surgery, he was great and has been since. Again, a dog. Not much of a comparison tool but if you look at the success and his inability to even have TMS - well, interesting, huh?
And if y'all are going to tell me that dogs can have TMS and should use mind power, well, I'll have to exit the forum. ;) |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2012 : 05:02:23
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Jenny I agree with you completely. Our dog HIFi was 16 when she died. At around 13 she started having cataracts & then bad arthritis in both hind legs. Towards the end she could'nt see & limped around. Can't have been TMS.
MY mom had terrible knees. Bone on bone. She was finding it harder & harder to walk. At 73 she had both knees done. The recovery wasn't easy but she followed instructions & did all her rehab & exercises. As a result she was walking pain free in about 9 months. She is 80 and is still doing OK.
She 'earned' if you like her right to have arthritis by living a ripe & full life & I would hate for anyone to say that it was all in her head.
Not everything has to be TMS.
Balto you should support yr mom, encourage her to have the op sooner rather than later. Don't confuse her with TMS especially if she is not receptive. If she believes that she has arthritis & believes that the op will fix it, then she is likely to have a better & quicker chance of recovery.
mala
Honestly, I sometimes really get fed up with my subconscious. It's like it's got a mind of its own.
Alexei Sayle
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Edited by - mala on 09/23/2012 05:03:23 |
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Question for Ace1
