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Dr. Zafirides
189 Posts |
 Posted - 05/28/2012 : 12:57:08
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Hi Everyone,
I thought this latest piece of news would be of interest to you. It is nice for the research community to be piecing together how our thoughts can literally affect/modify pain.
http://www.thehealthymind.com/2012/05/27/how-training-the-brain-reduces-chronic-pain/
It is interesting to speculate if this "brain map" theory may possibly explain how the brain "changes" in response to our thoughts when we are doing the PPD/TMS treatments. The actual biology of TMS has been elusive to even Dr. Sarno over the years. I really believe we are very close to finding out exactly how our thoughts create/affect/modify/stop physical pain.
Never, ever doubt how truly powerful you are!!
Be Well,
Dr. Zafirides
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
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Dr. Zafirides
189 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2012 : 07:16:58
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quote:
Originally posted by wrldtrv
Dr Z,
I'm very familiar with Lorimer Moseley's work. Watch this video (Moseley's) and I think you'll agree, it's a very logical, modern view of chronic pain based upon the latest from neuroscience.
http://bodyinmind.org/knowledge-works-unisa-lecture-lorimer-moseley/
wrldtrv,
Thank you for posting that link. The science of pain is evolving every day. It doesn't diminish TMS or PPD at all. It just may help us explain why relief occurs.
Thank you again,
I really do appreciate it.
Dr. Z
Kindly,
Peter Zafirides, MD
http://www.thehealthymind.com |
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drh7900
USA
194 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2012 : 11:25:46
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Thanks for the article Dr. Z. Fascinating information, indeed. May explain why some of the tougher cases take longer to resolve besides just the deeper and more repressed emotions...if something is "strongly" mapped, it may take longer to rewire around it. I personally find it quite difficult not to fear pain from certain things even though I intellectually grasp that they shouldn't hurt and, as I continue to resume physical activity, find that certain things hurt less and less...but that fear of pain is still being re-wired. Old habits are still having to be broken...habits that were formed because of the pain. But I make at least a little progress every day.
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Dustin |
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Dr. Zafirides
189 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2012 : 22:05:25
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quote:
Originally posted by drh7900
Thanks for the article Dr. Z. Fascinating information, indeed. May explain why some of the tougher cases take longer to resolve besides just the deeper and more repressed emotions...if something is "strongly" mapped, it may take longer to rewire around it. I personally find it quite difficult not to fear pain from certain things even though I intellectually grasp that they shouldn't hurt and, as I continue to resume physical activity, find that certain things hurt less and less...but that fear of pain is still being re-wired. Old habits are still having to be broken...habits that were formed because of the pain. But I make at least a little progress every day.
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Dustin
Just keep at it, Dustin. We really are wired to react much more quickly to emotion than logic. We must realize this as TMS treatment proceeds. Intellectually "getting it" with regards to TMS pain is not enough. One must truly believe that this is what is causing their pain and then TAKE ACTION based on that belief.
Once a person has that mindset, change really begins to happen. It is so beautiful to witness. You are starting to see this with the improvement you have had to this point. Keep at it, Dustin! Thanks for sharing your experience. Just wonderful.
Kindly,
Dr. Z |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2012 : 12:49:33
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It is interesting that you mentioned Moseley. It seems to me that while Moseley's views share with Dr. Sarno's the tenet that pain does not result from structural issues, his theory of causation is much different, and focuses on the CNS rather than psychological factors. This blogpost sheds some light on the differences.
http://www.bettermovement.org/2011/a-skeptical-look-at-the-theories-of-dr-john-sarno/
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2012 : 15:31:50
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Yes, pspa123, Moseley's theory of pain is very different than Sarno's, but I think, more modern. Sarno always said he was open to a competing theory for the pain. His O2 deprivation theory was his best guess, but a lot has changed in the "pain" field since then. In the end, does it really matter what is the actual cause if both agree that the brain, not structural reasons, is the cause for the pain?
There's an excellent (expensive) book called, "Explain Pain" by Moseley that sets out this theory very clearly...or you can watch his and other's videos. |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2012 : 18:10:07
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| I think it does matter, because as I understand it, the proposed treatments are also very different, not just the causal mechanism. I don't think Moseley would agree at all that "thinking psychologically," or more broadly dealing with stressors and emotions, will cure pain. |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2012 : 21:38:14
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| Well, yes you're right in the sense that Moseley's approach is more behavioral, eg, gradually challenging the pain, than cognitive, eg, thinking psychogically, trying to figure out what is bothering you. But they're both coming from the same place in regard to the ultimate source of the pain: the brain. |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2012 : 06:37:48
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| Yes I agree with you, but I think the question for most of us is once we recognize our issues are brain-based, what do we DO about it? For many, it appears, that knowledge by itself seems to be enough, or at least makes a substantial difference. But for others, including myself, it isn't, and just begs the question, what then? And unfortunately, for me anyway and I doubt I am alone here, as the pain persists, inevitably thoughts about other causes creep into the inner dialogue. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2012 : 08:23:08
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| Does Lorimer Moseley have a good overall book to explain his ideas and, more importantly, the techniques that the pain sufferer can employ in order to improve? Looked at Amazon and could not tell if there was anything useful that could be purchased. |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2012 : 10:37:35
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| Fox, why don't you watch the Lorimer video I posted the link to in one of the ealier posts? You can also find others on the internet. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2012 : 11:41:56
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| Had planned to watch it when time...See it is nearly an hour. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2012 : 17:01:11
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| Saw the long video. Great speaker. Good confirmation of what Sarno has already said about conditioning. No advice about how to reduce your pain. Hopefully there is more practical information available from this pain researcher. |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2012 : 20:04:57
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| Has anyone read "Explain Pain"? |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2012 : 19:18:05
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| I have read it two or three times. I happened to borrow it from a pt's office because it is about $70 if you buy it. It's excellent, spelling out what is in the videos and a lot more in a very understandable way. A bit of anatomy and physiology and a lot of vivid examples. I highly recommend it if you can find it. |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2012 : 19:23:23
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colpts.com/chronicpain/
If you want other videos--some are Mosely's; others from other sources, which view pain the same way, check this link. Go to the bottom of the page and click on any of the videos. I most strongly recommend the three 45 min videos that are part of a Canadian seminar on pain. |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2012 : 20:08:48
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| Does the book have treatment suggestions as well? |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2012 : 12:06:15
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Yes. In brief, they have to do with gradually challenging the brain so as not to rile up the nervous system too much at once and then lose ground. In short, not the "no pain no gain" method. But also not simply giving up, which reinforces the pain. The trick is in the middle; always challenging the pain at the edge.
There are actually exercises at the end of the book which get you to simulate the painful movements w/out your nervous system reacting in pain. The point is to re-train the brain, not the body.
Most of the book is learning how pain physiology works, which gives you confidence that it is often the brain rather than injury that is causing the symptoms. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2012 : 12:07:21
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| Very helpful concept, wrldtv...That you need to take the middle road - challenging pain at the edge...Are the exercises at the end of the book mental imagery/creative visualization rather than physical movement based? (Am thinking about buying this book, but boy, is it expensive! I have ordered his cheapest book off Amazon - Painful Yarns - just to put my toe into the water.) |
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MatthewNJ
USA
691 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2012 : 13:03:10
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This is how I see Lorimer Moseley's work as relavant to my recovery. Nueroplasticiyt! The brains ability to change! I have chosen to change how I speak and think and act. This takes working on it every day. These changes allow me to be less activated more regulated and more resiliant. And therefore in less pain. I am unfamiliar with Lorimer Moseley's work, other than the Ted talk I viewed (and enjoyed immensly). I have read Dr. Dan Siegel's work "Mindsight" and I just started "The Emotional Life of Your Brain" by Dr. Richard Davidson. Both of these works provide mechanisms to change your brain. Also, although his work predates the discovery of nueroplasticity, Dr. Peter Levines work "Healing Trauma" is going down a similar path. He also provieds a method to make these changes.
BUT, do not expect miracles. You get out what you put in. I have used these techniques for many years, and the more I practice the better I get. If you practice and do the work, you WILL see the results. Permanent results.
Matthew
Ferretsx3@comcast.net
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Less activated, more regulated and more resilient. |
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Topic |
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How Training The Brain Reduces Chronic Pain
