| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/10/2012 : 11:16:28
Hi Ace1,
A while back you told me that my right hip was TMS. I sincerely wish to believe this as I've used TMS thinking to resolve a myriad of conditions instantly or in short order. But my hip is still stuck and as I'm nearing a new age group for Senior Tennis, I want to start actively playing tournaments again. It's time for me to **** or get off the pot on this one. I'm accosted on a daily basis by well meaning people who think I'm nuts for not having hip-replacement surgery. Most recently, at a "fun" tournament, a retired surgeon took it upon himself to relentlessly admonish me to have the surgery.
I recall reading in Dr. Sarno's books somewhere him saying to the effect that joint replacement surgery is one of the marvels of modern medicine. I have also been dx'ed through imaging by two "TMS" doctors, trained under the Good Doctor, that what I have is significant arthritis, not TMS and to "have surgery sooner than later". So, this is going well over ten years now.
Ace, you've told me here that Dr. Sarno says hip arthritis is TMS. I'd like to TRULY believe this and get back to running again. How do you resolve the huge NOCEBOS I've been given by two TMS doctors and what I've read in the TMS books saying how marvelous HRS is?
EDIT: Serendipitously, as I'm writing this, there's a commercial on the Tennis Channel by an ambulance chasing TV law firm, soliciting business for defective metal-on-metal hip implanats...how timely!
Thanks for a reply,
tt |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/23/2012 : 19:38:13
Hi E.W.,
Your kind words are GREATLY appreciated! I enjoy reading your positive posts also, keep up the good work! The best way of beating the TMS gremlin is by creating self-esteem and confidence by succeeding in doing what you want to do. This creates a positive distraction, thus overcoming TMS fear of using your body for doing.
Cheers
|
| eric watson |
Posted - 09/23/2012 : 18:05:10
TT i give you all the props in the world for the way you have stayed the course against tms and living your life and not letting the tms live it for you-your post are awesome-i wish you the best on what ever the decision-i just am in awe at your ability to keep up the good fight.... |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/23/2012 : 09:43:12
Hi fellow TMS'ers,
Just an update on my tennis "tournament" I mentioned in an earlier post. Yesterday I played in the Pro/Am of an exhibition charity tournament I serendipitously signed up for. I'm happy to say I didn't embarrass myself too badly. I partnered with Bob Bryan versus his brother Mike Bryan and the owner of the club I play at. Earlier in the day I partnered with Gigi Fernandez against Conchita Martinez, Rennae Stubbs (my heart-throb), versus Lindsay Davenport and my last match with Murphy Jensen vs Mark Knowles.
I don't keep track of results for these type of "hit & giggle" events but I won some and lost some. I hit a few great shots against the pros and my serve was my weapon. My volleys did let me down, but it's the shot that I'm still working on, so maybe next year.
I had fun and afterwards people came up to me and congratulated me on how well I played and what a great serve I had. Then one club member who has had two hips replaced, corralled me for her usual harangue admonishing me how I MUST get my hip replaced and how she had a GREAT surgeon (who's name she could't recall, but I remembered for her). We don't play anymore since she only plays three days a week with her gals (while I play everyday at least 2-3 hours and double dose on the weekends).
Afterwards I took a shower, grabbed my cane, chit-chatted with my buds and the tournament volunteers and watched the Bryans and the other pros play the main event in a World Team Tennis format.
Moral of the story, I did this while hobbling around, moving a wee bit faster then my normal rec play, (a stadium of people watching helps to motivate for an extra half step). I'm in no hurry for a hip-replacement (I really can't hurry anywhere accept in my fast car) but THR is always an option. That decision would have to be made for me by an ER team while I was unconscious in septic shock. It's only tennis. I am going to give SteveO a call and see what he has in mind for me.
Cheers |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 09/23/2012 : 07:50:00
Remember that most tms is actually related to a strain (mostly mental, but somwhat physical too) not anything else, eventually this strain becomes a habit and not recognizable anymore (unconscience). Can animals strain? of course they can. I think some how the strain that leads to the oxygen deprivation overtime may be able to cause structural changes. These in turn are used by the mind to perpetuate the pain disability, then death. I think the benefit from these surgeries is somewhat better than the 20% or so improvement from placebo alone. However, it seems that when you start to treat the strain somehow these areas start to heal, or somehow the structural change doesn't hurt anymore. Dr. Bates used a retinoscope and noticed many captive and domesticated animals with myopia, but did not observe this in animals in the wild. I think us humans are unique in the way that we can reverse the habitual strain and recognize it again where as animals cannot. |
| balto |
Posted - 09/23/2012 : 06:32:41
hehehe, don't leave the forum Jenny.
Remember Pavlov's dogs. Their mouth salivate without seeing any food yet. They do have brain, they do react to stimulus, they have learned conditioning responds, they do have feeling... I hope we agreed on this.
here is my guess: we agreed that dog have feeling, and we all know that bad feelings produced negative changes in the body and good feeling produced the opposite, positive changes in the body. I'm guessing that after the surgery your dog got more care, more attention from you. He got more good food and treats, Got more toys to play with... so he just got better.
What I'm trying to say is, this is a tms forum, I'm very pro Mindbody medicine so if my life is not in immediate danger, I would try to deal with it the tms/anxiety way first. But when need to, I will seek conventional treatment. I just want to share what I have experienced. I did healed myself of numerous health problems using MB medicine. I truly believe in our mind's power to heal. But yet, Mala is right, there are time we need to consult conventional medical experts for help.
------------------------
No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| jennypeanut |
Posted - 09/23/2012 : 05:46:48
Well, I suppose you are right about them getting anxiety/tms, but I guess I meant that the surgery worked for the dog, yet he could not be fooled by placebo bc dogs can't understand placebo. Now if y'all try to convince me dogs can be duped by placebo, THEN I'll have to exit the forum.  |
| balto |
Posted - 09/23/2012 : 05:04:05
quote:
Originally posted by jennypeanut
You can take this for what it's worth, as I don't know much and don't claim to know anything special... yet.
My dog had a hip replacement. His breed is notorious for arthritis. He is a dog. He cannot have TMS. He could barely walk before the hip surgery, needed to be lifted up after lying down. That was something like 7 years ago. After healing from the surgery, he was great and has been since. Again, a dog. Not much of a comparison tool but if you look at the success and his inability to even have TMS - well, interesting, huh?
And if y'all are going to tell me that dogs can have TMS and should use mind power, well, I'll have to exit the forum. ;)
Just like you, I don't know much and don't claim to know anything special... yet. But I do think animal, atleast those with a brain, can get mental illness too (tms). I've read about baby elephant got so traumatized and suffered from depression after witnessed his/her family got shot and killed. About parrots pulling their own feathers, something similar to human's OCD, due to being in cages. About chimpanzees behaved like they have ptsd when being captured and put in cativity, they sometime eat their own feces, rocking and pacing continuously, non stop, behavior that their wild relative don't do.
trauma, cativity, separation from their environment, from their packs, lack of companionship in captivity... can cause lots of mental illness in animals. So I do think animal do get tms. I got 2 very active and healthy dogs, when one passed away, the other just got very depress. He didn't eat or play for weeks. He no longer active like he used too. I can see big changes in him.
------------------------
No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| mala |
Posted - 09/23/2012 : 05:02:23
Jenny I agree with you completely. Our dog HIFi was 16 when she died. At around 13 she started having cataracts & then bad arthritis in both hind legs. Towards the end she could'nt see & limped around. Can't have been TMS.
MY mom had terrible knees. Bone on bone. She was finding it harder & harder to walk. At 73 she had both knees done. The recovery wasn't easy but she followed instructions & did all her rehab & exercises. As a result she was walking pain free in about 9 months. She is 80 and is still doing OK.
She 'earned' if you like her right to have arthritis by living a ripe & full life & I would hate for anyone to say that it was all in her head.
Not everything has to be TMS.
Balto you should support yr mom, encourage her to have the op sooner rather than later. Don't confuse her with TMS especially if she is not receptive. If she believes that she has arthritis & believes that the op will fix it, then she is likely to have a better & quicker chance of recovery.
mala
Honestly, I sometimes really get fed up with my subconscious. It's like it's got a mind of its own.
Alexei Sayle
|
| jennypeanut |
Posted - 09/23/2012 : 00:11:06
You can take this for what it's worth, as I don't know much and don't claim to know anything special... yet.
My dog had a hip replacement. His breed is notorious for arthritis. He is a dog. He cannot have TMS. He could barely walk before the hip surgery, needed to be lifted up after lying down. That was something like 7 years ago. After healing from the surgery, he was great and has been since. Again, a dog. Not much of a comparison tool but if you look at the success and his inability to even have TMS - well, interesting, huh?
And if y'all are going to tell me that dogs can have TMS and should use mind power, well, I'll have to exit the forum. ;) |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/21/2012 : 10:04:28
quote:
Originally posted by balto
...Eckhard Tolle's the Power of Now has audio version too TT, you may find it more convenient listen to it in the car than reading it. I find it very helpful and relax.
...Within my immediate family and extended family we have 5 doc's, 4 dentists, 1 pharmacist, 1 optometrist, 1 buddhist monk, and 1 low life salesman (me). Accept for the buddhist monk, not a single one of them believe in tms.
Thanks for the tip on Tolle, I like to listen to TMS tapes while driving, I got a lot out of Schechter's cassettes.
It's good that your family has one person who's down to earth and grounded in reality (you).
Cheers,
tt
|
| balto |
Posted - 09/20/2012 : 20:04:30
quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
Ace1, thanks for your suggestion of Eckhard Tolle's book. I had the pleasure of seeing him speak years ago and found him to be a beautiful gnome like man. I haven't read his book but will get a copy. I like your approach to TMS/psychosomatic dis-ease--that most everything can be connected to the mindbody, including, what inattention caused you to step in front of that bus.
Balto, interesting that your brother's a doc. It sounds like John Stossel and his brother all over again.
Eckhard Tolle's the Power of Now has audio version too TT, you may find it more convenient listen to it in the car than reading it. I find it very helpful and relax.
Within my immediate family and extended family we have 5 doc's, 4 dentists, 1 pharmacist, 1 optometrist, 1 buddhist monk, and 1 low life salesman (me). Accept for the buddhist monk, not a single one of them believe in tms. My own mother is going under the knife this october to have knee replacement. I have tried for years to educate her about tms, but I failed. The other family members even think because of me her condition is getting worse, I made her waited to long to fix her arthritis knees. I have helped many in my own community here, but I failed to help my own mother. :(
I even asked her doctor if he has seen anyone with similar Xray and have no pain. He told me he has seen a few, but those are just a lucky few, somehow the pain signals don't reach their brain. :)
------------------------
No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
| art |
Posted - 09/20/2012 : 09:19:56
TT,
just to rephrase, I did not mean that I don't literally understand your angst. Because of course I do. It was my inelegant way of saying that from my point of view, right or wrong, the wiser course of action seems clear. To tell you the truth, I admire your willingness and determination to pursue the TMS angle just as far as you're able.
I'm a professional poker player, so I often tend to look at life in terms of probabilities, and risk/reward. If I were a betting man (which I am), I'd put your odds at being happy with the surgery (if you eventually get it) at 90 percent. I'd put your odds at finding meaningful, lasting relief through mind/body techniques at 10 percent, if that.
Again, and as ever, my humble opinion only.
|
| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/18/2012 : 11:26:36
Thanks for your continued support and suggestions one and all. Art, HRS is always an option, I'm eyeing all those I know who have had it for their results. But it's only tennis and I've been able to stop the limp in the past after walking for 20 minutes. The problem is tennis is stop and go, I don't sit down on the cange-overs because then it would lock up and would take 10, 20 minutes to unlock again.
Ace1, thanks for your suggestion of Eckhard Tolle's book. I had the pleasure of seeing him speak years ago and found him to be a beautiful gnome like man. I haven't read his book but will get a copy. I like your approach to TMS/psychosomatic dis-ease--that most everything can be connected to the mindbody, including, what inattention caused you to step in front of that bus.
Balto, interesting that your brother's a doc. It sounds like John Stossel and his brother all over again.
SteveO, I'll give you a call soon and find out what your program for me is. I'm all the way up to page 106 now. I may need to hire you on as my coach--or buy a container load of your book to put in my rooms, next to the Bible and the Book of Buddha. In the meantime, I've got to get my game face on (and find my wheel-chair) because I signed myself up to play in a pro-am this weekend, playing with and against the Bryan's and hopefully partnering up with one of my favorites, Rennae Stubbs. This should be an interesting tennis adventure, wish me luck.
Cheers |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 09/15/2012 : 13:16:43
Excellent Steve, I just saw your reply. I agree with your assesment 100% Anyone on this thread, please don't take this personally, but I think the best advice is coming from someone already cured. Why? This is bc the person knows what they were doing wrong and what it actually takes to get better. For example, I'll tell you that when I was at a 80% level I thought that fighting symptoms was the right thing, I was clearly wrong. I tried to wait until I knew how to cure myself before I offered definitive advice. Good luck to everyone |
| Ace1 |
Posted - 09/15/2012 : 13:03:08
My case was a severe case and just because it's a severe case only means you haven't treated the right thing or whatever has caused your TMS is so engrained in your personality that it takes more or a different kind of work. Get the power of now and follow it to the tee and follow the affirmation advice and don't challenge the hip at all. Play tennis as if you had nothing wrong with your hip not in a way of forcing to be good. The people have been cured all are telling you not to have a replacement. Why bc it'll just shift to something else eventually it doesn't have to be pain but could be something internal. I will ask anyone on this thread especially the ones recommending hip replacement, what is it that leads to good health till old age? Is it genes, is it luck?is it how strong you are physically ? No way, it is only a good emotional inner state and living in the present that does. |
| SteveO |
Posted - 09/15/2012 : 12:34:57
I understand TTom's angst. I feel for him deeply. He has seen the pain worsen in people who had the hip surgery. He also knows that TMS itself can be worse than a hip replacement. He also knows that just because a TMS doc says he needs surgery doesn't mean he needs it.
So he's struggling to add the most quality to his life that he can, without getting greedy and possibly taking away some current quality. It's a very tough decision. His main problem is that he understands TMS too well. He knows, as Ace said, "just bc it hasn't gotten better doesn't mean it's not TMS." It could be that TTom just knows too much. Ignorance at times is soothing bliss.
So he's reaching out for something to help him make his decision. But I feel that he's made it already, unconsciously.
I will call you soon TTom, let's hash out a game plan.
Steve |
| art |
Posted - 09/15/2012 : 09:13:02
Hey TT,
Truthfully. I don't get what all the angst is about. You've seen two qualified md's with TMS training and you've been given their verdict. What's the point of getting a second, and as it turns out confirming opinion of you're not going to rely on it?
You've been tormented by this painful hip for at least as long as I've been on the forum...7 years or so. You've applied TMS self-treatment to many other symptoms and have had great success in doing so. The hip sounds if anything, like it's gotten worse.
Do yourself a kindness and get the surgery. |
| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/14/2012 : 10:10:32
Hi All,
Being a TMS procrastinator, I've been waiting to write the perfect reply responding and not slighting anyone. So here goes, I'm semi-retired so my time is mostly my own. I am in a long-term relationship and as with most TMS'ers that's probably the major underlying source of the repressed/suppressed rage. Tennis is a game and I'm not going to get a hip-replacement just to play a game. To answer Mala's question, why don't I just do it and run--I do try nearly everyday to run on the court but the excruciating pain stops me. After playing I now use a cane to get to get home. I do run in the pool for 30 minutes and after that my hip loosens up enough so I don't need the cane. If this is TMS, I want the breakthrough to happen on the court--but if it happens overnight in my sleep that's OK too, I won't complain. I've often thought of having an "accident" that unfreezes my hip joint and cracks the calcification of the arthritis--that is if it is arthritis. But, you can't plan these accidents, you have to fall over a curb or down a flight of stairs spontaneously.
I've witnessed many players with hip replacements and just played with one who has had two AND two revisions and he played pretty well, I wouldn't have noticed anything unusual about his gait if he hadn't of told me. The recovery time for the surgery is months and I don't want to quit playing that long. I've also met and heard about some who have died of "routine" HRS or had unsuccessful outcomes and were in more pain then before. I've given thought to arthroscopic surgery but been told it's too late for me. I'm waiting for the arthroscopic docs to keep "practicing" and improvements in the technology so someday it will be like doing a deeper root canal. I don't think this is that far off.
Other then not being able to play singles I play quite a bit much more than most. But I am slowly gaining weight which probably effects my self-confidence more than my performance. Functionally I have great difficulty bending over to tie my right shoe, some of which is probably my stomach getting in the way. I have a pair of velcro shoes stashed away for the day I may not be able to bend that far but hope it doesn't get to that. Regarding the recent discussion here on overeating, medicating with food for soothing is definitely a part of the TMS complex of behaviors. In the meantime I have enough game due to good technique to be able to play at a high level for rec/fun tennis with older pros. One major thing that keeps me going is that I am still improving like a junior. I really enjoy getting better and if I could be speedy like the old days, I feel the score would be a wash because my technique would not have been forced to improve to compensate for the lack of mobility. For example I played really well yesterday as a sub in a rec match, wowing my partner and opponents and making me feel real good about my shots. My TMS has been one of my best coaches and has also showed me who my friends are--darn few players like playing with the guy who can't move. I remember a friend of mine who was the best player in SoCal in his age-group, now deceased, played against guys like Pancho and all the rest. I watched him play in tournaments in the desert. After hitting a winner, he would pull-up a little and all the peanut-gallery would have to say is, "If Lefty could only run!" But he always won the tournament. It's like people who look over a beautiful classic car and immediately point out the tiny imperfection, a scratch or a door ding. Most people will only be looking for the imperfections in others, I guess it makes them feel better about themselves.
So there's some explanation for what I'm thinking. I gotta' get ready to play so that's all for now, but the weekends coming and I'll dig down some more.
Cheers |
| mala |
Posted - 09/13/2012 : 20:13:11
TT,
I too have read the bit about hip replacement in HBP & am confused. It would seem that Sarno himself is not too sure about this one.
You have been on this forum a long time, even longer than I have trying to resolve the issue of yr hip. Here is what I think.
You say that you wish you could TRULY believe that the hip IS TMS & go running. I don’t understand. You keep saying JUST DO IT, you keep telling others to believe, you have been reading SteveOs book saying how great it is - well why don’t you just do it & start running? What is stopping you? At least you will know one way or the other whether it is TMS or not.
The fact that you have been to see 2 TMS doctors both of whom have recommended surgery is significant. If surgery is required it would make sense to have it sooner rather than later. Have it while you are young & strong enough to recover fully & go into it with full conviction that you will recover & have a better quality of life than you do now.
A healthy body is an expression of a healthy mind. The 2 are intertwined but also separate. Things do happen to the body that need to be recognized, diagnosed & taken care of. Not everything is TMS nor does it have to be.
As much as we love having you here on the forum, it would be better if you were spending more time playing tennis & living life to its fullest & just checking in here from time to time with your words of wisdom.
Andy I read your post & am awfully sorry to hear about Sheila's knees. I don't know how old she is but my mom had both knees replaced at the same time when she was 73. I wish she hadn't left it so long but the health system here will only do it when they deem it necessary & so she decided to wait instead of going private.
It wasn't easy especially at her age and on hind sight maybe doing it one at a time may have been better but the doctor didn't want to put her under twice. She stayed in hospital for about 8 days and then was moved to a rehab clinic where she stayed for 5 weeks doing intense physio & rehab. I think that helped a lot. After that she was sent home & told to keep as active as possible. It took nearly 9 months to a year but then she was able to walk around with no pain. She is 80 now & is still doing well. She is pain free.
Hope this helps
Mala
Honestly, I sometimes really get fed up with my subconscious. It's like it's got a mind of its own.
Alexei Sayle
|
| tennis tom |
Posted - 09/12/2012 : 10:08:49
Thank you all who have replied, Ace1, Balto, Andy and Wrldtrv. I will ingest them and reply soon. Andy, thanks for digging up the quote by Dr. Sarno about HRS, that was the one I was referring to that creates lingering doubt in me. I gotta' go now to do a few laps of back-stroke in the pool to stretch out, read a page of SteveO in the hot-tub and then--what else--hobble around the courts.
Hope y'all get out there today and JUST DO IT! |
|
|
