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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
 Posted - 11/01/2011 : 06:48:15
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Tom,
Once again, when I post something contrary to 99.44% Sarno, no one debates the authenticity of the points I've made. It nearly always results in someone wondering why I waste my time on a forum dedicated to shilling for Sarno's publishing, medical practice and counseling empires. Simple answer: Because people who post here aren't getting better. That's it. That's all. Nothing else to add. My work here is done.....for now.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 06:58:28
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Hi Hillbilly and all,
Is "at last, a life" all I need to learn the technque of Claire Weekes?
Dear Tom,
All that matters is the recovery of the person. I appreciate any post explaining something that trully helped a person recover completely. Remember that we had to break all preconceptions to accept Dr. Sarno in the first place. As you can see Balto, did not recover till he applyed this different way of treating himself. It seems that there must be something very important here. I am definately going to try it as with Dr. Sarno's method I am not 100%, but only 90-95%. I want to be like I was before all of this and it seems that the people who use this technique make that advancement. Dr. Sarno found the most important part that it is psychological, but maybe there is a more effective way to treat the people who have a severe form of tms. |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 07:13:13
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Ace,
Here is the link to Claire Weekes' wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claire_Weekes
I would pick up a copy of Hope and Help For Your Nerves first. You can get one for a quarter at nearly any used book store in the world. She is dead, and a foundation carries on her work by selling her publications and audio recordings, in case you are concerned, as I am, that you are merely paying for a tire retread in a new box and lining the pockets of another guru.
I would suggest you read her work first because it was her advice as to how to recover that Paul David used. Again, you may do whatever you choose, but there is no percentage below 100% out of pain that was acceptable to me. Take copious notes once you plan your journey and come back to share when you are well again. You might run into some resistance, but don't let that deter you.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 07:43:52
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some people get well with penicillin, others get well with amoxicillin.
Your doctor said you are at risk of heart disease. You can either go on a diet, exercise, or take take Lipitor, or a combination of all.
Mindbody syndromes can be cure or its' symptoms can be lessen with many methods. We need to keep an open mind. Many doctors called Dr. Sarno's method unconventional, snake oil... because they don't have an open mind. The "Experts" used to think the Black Death in Europe hundred years ago were caused by "bad air". Even now many people still think cold and flu were caused by cold weather. So why restrict our thinking to just one. I've seen people get well with Sarno's method. I've seen others get well with just meditation, follow Claire Weeke's teaching, follow Dr. Benson's teaching... Some people even get well because they were so sick and tired of living in fear and refuse to fear and get well. And some get well just by going to church or temple more.
We need to have an open mind. I don't think Dave would mind if we discuss other's treatment methods or debate about other expert's thinkings. I don't think this forum is strictly just for Sarno's idolisers. Close minded thinking, hostile debates usually do more harm to your health and rarely win over anyone. |
Edited by - balto on 11/01/2011 07:46:12 |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 07:47:10
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| Hillbilly, how long did it take you to recover 100%, by this method? |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 08:02:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Hillbilly
Tom,
Simple answer: Because people who post here aren't getting better. That's it. That's all. Nothing else to add. My work here is done.....for now.
I appreciate your answer Hillbilly and that explains it, I honestly wasn't baiting you, I just didn't understand where you were coming from or why you were bothering. I have a copy of one of Claire Weekes' books and hope to get to it before I die but there are just so many hours in the day. The Good Doctor resonated for me the first time I cracked one of his books. It's not the answer to every ailment but does work for about 80% of what ails man.
I must disagree with you about judging the Good Doctor's success by the "people who post here". You are not giving him credit for all the "Success Stories" of those who have been "cured" and are now leading productive lives with the valuable tool of TMS in their medicine cabinets. I've personally overcome numerous issues using Dr. Sarno's theory. I just got over a "frozen shoulder" that many would have spent thousands of dollars on for useless treatments or surgeries. I have twinges of pain almost on a daily basis on the tennis court that I shake-off as TMS and they evaporate almost instantaneously.
I'm here because I've always been interested in the MINDBODY and feel TMS is on the cutting edge of health, yoking the present with the past. Some here probably feel as I do, some may be hypochondriacs, some may have tougher goes of it than I due to complexities of life situations in their past and/or present. If you look at the "Members" list in the header above you will see hundreds who have come and gone and been "cured", helped and "taught how to fish" at this site. Therefore I must strongly disagree with your premise that no one is healed here.
I think your terminology of "shilling" is a bit of hyperbole. This site takes no money and thanks to Dave, runs in a very pure unmoderated manner. As far as I know, the Good Doctor has never done a book tour, nor tried to take his theory to "market". He is 88 years old and continues going to his office and treating his patients as he always has. He practices in quiet anonymity but hopefully will receive the Noble Prize for his invaluable contribution to humanity someday soon and not posthumously. He writes a book about every ten years updating his theory. I will take a look at Claire Weekes someday to see how her thoughts differ from Dr. Sarno's. For my simple mind, TMS is all I need to sort out the wheat from the chaff of dis-ease.
Good luck on your healing path Hillbilly,
tt
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
======================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/page/Find+a+TMS+Doctor+or+Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
Edited by - tennis tom on 11/01/2011 08:16:54 |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 08:07:02
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Ace,
Out of pain mostly in six weeks. Fully recovered after eight. But there were many barriers that remained to living a full life that I confronted and conquered. I was once a frightened and pathetic public speaker. Now I can talk in front of people comfortably. I decided I was going to take things on that before I would've avoided. I coach basketball now, and one of my mantras is to motivate my kids to overcome their insecurities and rise above their imagined limits on and off the court. It's an awesome thing to watch and be a part of. Don't ever stop searching for fulfillment. Fear is real, but the boundaries it creates are not. See for yourself.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 08:21:02
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Last question for Balto and Hillbilly,
So is the treatment a way becoming more at peace and calming down and comfortable or more a sense of strength and fight and not letting the symptoms bother you? I asked this before but I really didn't understand from the responses which one it was? I may get the answer by just reading the books, but to me this is one thing i have been pondering and am not totally sure of. |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 10:40:22
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Ace,
Read and you will be directed as to the approach to take. I agree with Balto, that peace and less rigidity is going to win over fighting yourself. I have a tendency to go balz out for everything, but I ran into a stone wall using that approach in the first two weeks or so. Pick your path once you understand.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 11:30:13
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Tom,
Missed your reply. Thanks. And if you look at what I wrote I didn't say all people aren't getting better. Some are, some aren't. It is the aren'ts that I'm after. Cheers!
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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Plantweed
USA
109 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 12:25:43
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| Hi folks, I haven't posted on here in a long time (since I didn't have to!); you can read my story by going back through my posts, but I just want to quickly dart in and say that Hillbilly's posts were the breakthrough for me. I was definitely over-thinking it for a long time, and he boiled it down to a nice, practical technique. I thank Sarno for pointing me in the right direction, but I think it's simpler than he says. It's merely an over-active nervous system in fight or flight mode that's being recharged constantly be a panicked "what if." Stop worrying about your symptoms and they will deflate like a party balloon. I had such agonizing back spasms and daily stiffness and discomfort I turned into a miserable wretch, for years. Finally I got sick of it and said I'm going to stop babying my back and I'll do the most physically stressful thing I can think of: Iyengar yoga. It's been two years now. The physical effects have been great, but they're a side benefit to confronting my fear of hurting my back. Now I don't even think of it. If I do yardwork all day I'll have some soreness, I take an Aleve and forget about it, back to normal the next day. I lift weights, spent 5 days riding a motorcycle all day each day through Canada, sleep on couches or the floor or wherever, stand for hours on end, who cares?! Good luck to everyone, chin up... |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 13:14:45
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Thanks for the feedback Plantweed and its nice for you to check in with your success story. I have a question for you, how does Hillbilly's program differ from the Good Doctor's? Many here who have detracted from Dr. Sarno did so because they said his theory was too simple and had no scientific clinical proof. I'm always one for the K.I.S.S principle, what exactly is the program that worked for you on Hillbilly's recommendation? If you could outline it it would be greatly appreciated by many here I'm sure.
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
======================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/page/Find+a+TMS+Doctor+or+Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
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Back2-It
USA
438 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2011 : 14:04:14
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Here is where Sarno really helped me:
1. He provided knowledge about the spine.
Without this, I would have thought that my disc herniation was a sentence to being disabled for the rest of my life.Other doctors
and medical providers were no help, in that they literally were afraid of working with me or touching me, for fear of paralyzing me.
Here is where Weekes helped me:
I have anxiety bad. But I did not recognize exactly what long term stress and anxiety does to a body. She provided keys to getting through anxiety, but did not provide concrete information on spines. And since so many think they have permanent spine damage, it is only a part of the story.
Here is where Dale Carnegie helped me:
Get on with life and be hopeful.
I examined the things I had to change in my life that could be changed and I have been doing it. This helps.
My reason for not having an eight week cure stems from working out what exactly "could" be wrong with me, as my main area of problem was my abdomen. I had to work through the thoracic disc thing, then possible nerve damage from surgery, and finally any residual discomfort from an abdominal hernia -- all of which can effect the same small area.
Had I had no surgery, had a clean MRI and had no abdominal hernia, I think my mind would have grasped the ideas of Sarno, Weekes and Carnegie in short order.
Hillbilly's posts have been extremely helpful for me. What resonates is not fearing, getting on with life, and live a hopeful life. Balto's posts are common sense slaps upside the head. Tom and Art have contributed in huge ways to my progress. Darko too.
We are all different. Some things work for one and not for another. I don't think there is any template. But Sarno's advice about the spine is invaluable.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
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Plantweed
USA
109 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2011 : 07:09:19
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Hi, Tom. For me, it was Hillbilly's posts that made me realize I needed to break the obsession. His theory that the chronic condition is merely an overactive nervous system that's fed by our fears, and not some murky, hidden thoughts from the subconscious, seemed simpler and more believable. It just made sense. I went from obsessing on the pain and what I could and couldn't do, to becoming obsessed with Sarno's approach, constantly doing mental gymnastics and going around in circles, getting nowhere really. I just needed to CHILL OUT. I just stopped feeding the monster. I forced myself to do things I was nervous about. I'd wonder what exactly my avoidance behaviors were and I'd confront them. Afraid of heights? Go zip-lining. Can't stand musclehead gym rats? Work out in and amongst them. Afraid of looking like a fool? Dance at every wedding you go to. Little stuff like that.
To win, stop thinking about it, stop worrying about it, just LIVE and you will get better.  |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2011 : 07:22:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
Last question for Balto and Hillbilly,
So is the treatment a way becoming more at peace and calming down and comfortable or more a sense of strength and fight and not letting the symptoms bother you? I asked this before but I really didn't understand from the responses which one it was? I may get the answer by just reading the books, but to me this is one thing i have been pondering and am not totally sure of.
Hi Ace1,
I didn't fight it. I approached it with peace and calmness. When I have symptoms I just slowed my thinking down and observe my symptoms. I acknowledged that it is there and then I accepted the fact that it will be there for a while. I think of it like an itch on my back, a pimple on my face, a running nose I am having. Nothing dangerous, nothing long term. It could be intense, scary, and painful but it it benign and temporary and will be gone when my brain can accept it.
Accepting your situation, your symptoms. Don't fight it, don't get angry. also don't forget to be patient, give it some time. Impatient will feed your pain, your symptoms.
Acceptance is a powerful antidose to stress. The old school desert muslims always face their hardship with the saying: "it is the will of Allah". The hindu in India accepted their fate because they believed in karma. They believed in cause and effect. They believe they did something bad in their last life and now they're paying for it. So they try to be good in this life and accept their fate. The buddhists try to live in the moment. Accept it and do their best to deal with the situation at hand in a positive way. Look at this blog post from someone live in Thailand about how people deal with the flood there: http://isaanstyle.blogspot.com/2011/09/ubon-ratchathani-floods-2011-thailand.html and compare that to how people deal with Katrina a few years back in the US. Can you still have a smile on your face if you're in the same situation?
You don't have to be religious. Just be more acceptance of your situation. The symptoms is there. So be it. Get busy with your kids, your spouse, your friends, your hobbies.
It is not the situation. It is how you think of the situation. |
Edited by - balto on 11/02/2011 09:15:18 |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2011 : 08:37:51
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Paul David, the author of the book mentioned below, writes: "The trouble with anxiety is fears begin to build and this is why it is so important to have a better understanding and an explanation of why you feel like you do. In my case the more I understood the easier things got. I also learnt that I had been doing everything wrong. I was fighting my symptoms, I was anxious because I was anxious, I was running away from how I felt, everything I was doing was just adding to my feelings of anxiety. I was spending every day questioning how I felt, thrashing my mind, because I just did not understand why I felt like I did and having no idea how to make myself feel better. Every day just seemed like a daily battle with myself. When we don't understand why we feel like we do, we have nothing left to do but to try and figure it all out ourselves. This is the reason we feel unable to detach ourselves from our thoughts and how we feel; the constant thinking eventually tires our mind and is the reason we feel so emotionally spent and fatigued." (Source: http://www.anxietynomore.co.uk/)
quote:
Originally posted by Hillbilly
For anyone interested in doing exactly as balto and I have to recover, please read Paul David's book, "At Last A Life." In that book he chronicles his struggle with panic and fear and nervous symptoms (which I strongly hold are exactly what TMS is) and how he used the knowledge he gained from reading Claire Weekes' book Hope and Help For Your Nerves in order to get past his 8-yr-long struggle to live beyond the bounds of his house. He talks about the many doctor visits that showed nothing out of the ordinary, ruminating about ever being cured, and many other experiences inside his head that caused him to cower inside his house and hope for the pains and nervous attacks to go away.
The only thing that worked for him was to go back and live fearlessly as before, and although it took a while for his system to calm after years of mental and physical conditioning, he persevered and won his freedom. I did the same. Balto did as well. You can too. Get to it!
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Edited by - shawnsmith on 11/02/2011 09:01:38 |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2011 : 12:03:25
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| Thanks Guys, I appreciate all your input. Tell me if this is the wrong way to do it. Lets say I'm stressed out for some reason and I have some pain. Is it important first to calm yourself down and get rid of the symptoms (or most of them) first before embarking on some strenous activity with the painful area? I have been kind of doing this, but I wanted to see from the ones that completely recovered if this is what they did or if on the opposite end, one should not restrict under any circumstance. I am not afraid to do anything, but in times were the pain/ stressful situation is bad, I felt not doing anything strenous at that time, might help the process of calming your nervous system. Thanks again for helping me out in advance |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2011 : 13:17:53
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Ace can you please be more specific as to what sport, exercise or activity you wish to do and for what duration?
Thanks |
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Are You a Physio or a Psycho?
