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MarkD
41 Posts |
 Posted - 10/24/2011 : 13:14:11
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Talk me off the ledge.
Sciaticia pain or TMS?
Its been eight weks with a numb foot, can't walk, pain in the entire left leg and portions of the right leg (calf). Impossible to walk more than a city block without having to stop and squat or take a seat. can't sleep from the pain.
Vicodin and tramadol are not helping.
Seen Sarno twice. Speak to him weekly. He says its TMS. He prescribed the painkillers. I am seeing one of his therapists. I am at my wit's end. The pain takes my breath away and drives me to tears at its worst.
Why shouldn't I try an epidural? Who wants to live like this? popping pain killers, feeling like an zombie from the drugs, basing my day on where can I sit when I get to the next place. Its very frustrating because the pain is debilitating. |
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Bugbear
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 14:24:13
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| Dear Mark, I feel your pain or at least have done. But not for 8 weeks. My only knowledge of an epidural was during childbirth. It's only temporary, unless you are referring to a different type of procedure. That being said you are doing your body no good by taking the likes of tramadol. What are the reasons you are delaying the epidural? Will it relieve your anxiety and desperation for a short while so you can focus on the psychological stuff? Youn gotta do what you gotta do. Look after yourself. |
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MarkD
41 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 14:57:11
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My research has found that the epidural success rate is pretty low. There are some nasty side efects also.
Most importantly, sarno says no to the epidural. placebo he calls it. |
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Bugbear
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 15:18:51
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Well yes. It is a placebo because it doesn't cure the root cause of the pain, just gives temporary relief. You present good arguments for not going ahead with it. So what can you do to make some progress?. Do you find the therapy helpful? Are you reading, journalling, etc? Have you tried the structured education programme on the TMS wiki? I apologise if you've already been there and done that. You do have the skills and internal resources to beat this thing.
What would you be doing if you didn't have this pain? What would you be thinking about, planning for the future? |
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MarkD
41 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 15:43:45
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I would be at the gym. I would be playing with my daughter. I would be living my life if I wasn't in pain.
I am delaying the epidural because of the fear that I am having with the side effects.
I also don't really believe that it will help much. The pain is due to TMS, I just cannot get past the pain. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 19:50:27
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkD
The pain is due to TMS, I just cannot get past the pain.
Unfortunately, because you cannot get past the pain, the TMS will continue.
It is not easy, but you need to diligently follow the doctor's treatment program.
You have to do your best to live your life as if you were not in pain, and be completely honest with yourself and your therapist about what is going on in your life that may be fueling the symptoms on a psychological level.
If you have accepted that the pain is benign, and eliminated the fear that there is something physically wrong, then you have taken an important step. For the pain to fade, you must do your best to stop focusing on it. It is not easy, but you must recondition yourself to react differently to it. As the pain loses its ability to dominate your thoughts, it will fade. It may take quite awhile to achieve results. Take a long-term view and do not get discouraged by short-term setbacks. |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 22:13:11
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I have had incredible hip pain for the last week or so. My mum and sis both had hip replacements. I almost started believing in it. Then came to the forum and looked up hip pain. Try doing the same. It's TMS -- even my mum and sister's pain which led to hip replacements was probably TMS. I remember how much airspace those hip replacements took up, in their not-very-fulfilled lives.
Now my hip pain coming and going, mostly going. I'm continuing exercising and every time I notice it I diligently ignore it again. Most of the time I'm feeling much better, but it got me out of bed just now which is why I'm posting again.
There is something somewhere in one of the current threads about how powerful the subconscious really is. Do we really believe it can't create this pain? Yet when I deny it power over me, and stop obsessing about it, it almost always goes away with its tail between its legs.
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2011 : 06:01:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave
quote:
Originally posted by MarkD
The pain is due to TMS, I just cannot get past the pain.
Unfortunately, because you cannot get past the pain, the TMS will continue.
It is not easy, but you need to diligently follow the doctor's treatment program.
You have to do your best to live your life as if you were not in pain, and be completely honest with yourself and your therapist about what is going on in your life that may be fueling the symptoms on a psychological level.
If you have accepted that the pain is benign, and eliminated the fear that there is something physically wrong, then you have taken an important step. For the pain to fade, you must do your best to stop focusing on it. It is not easy, but you must recondition yourself to react differently to it. As the pain loses its ability to dominate your thoughts, it will fade. It may take quite awhile to achieve results. Take a long-term view and do not get discouraged by short-term setbacks.
TMS in a nutshell!
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
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chopper72
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2011 : 06:57:26
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Sorry about the last post. Check for periformis syndrome. I believe that is the spelling. I had it. It is TMS. It mimics sciatica beautifully with numbness and pain. When I first got it I went to an orthopod who diagnosed it as a disc problem. Two years later I couldn't stand it anymore and went to have surgery. The doc did a MRI and saw there was no disc problem. He sent me home - the pain went away on the car ride home.
kirk |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2011 : 10:47:08
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quote:
Originally posted by chopper72
...the pain went away on the car ride home.
WOW! The power of the NOCEBO. |
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MarkD
41 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2011 : 11:45:43
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I am taking the plunge. I am getting the epidural on November 7.
I am concentrating on the pain and cannot move past it.
maybe the epuidural will alleviate the pain so that I can move past the fear.
The fear is keeping me from accomplishing the work.
The MRI shows disc herniations at L4, L5 and S1. |
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Back2-It
USA
438 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2011 : 12:36:16
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quote:
maybe the epuidural will alleviate the pain so that I can move past the fear.
I hope you have some success with this approach, even though you said you won't believe an epidural will be successful. You're kind of setting up for failure, in my opinion.
I'm not done with all my pain, but I have experienced pain every waking minute of every day for 2.5 years. I felt it sitting, standing and walking. At one point my body was in such a spasm that my entire torso was torqued. My ribs hurt, my back hurt, my abdomen hurt, my right leg was weak, my left leg tingled, my left arm was weak as well. No pain pills worked. None. The only thing that gave me some relief was Ativan, which kept cluing me that this whole mess was CNS caused.
I thought about steroid shots and even an epidural, but the lingering thought was...what if they don't work? Surgery was not an option for my supposed disc problem. I held off.
If Dr. Sarno tells you it is TMS I would tend to believe him. Fifty years of experience lets him see the difference between TMS and structural. The epidural may work and it may do harm. The harm may be worse that what it's supposed to cure.
Since I've let the emotional acceptance set in the fear of the pain has been less and my thoughts about the pain less. I used to be 110% focused on it everyday all day. Now I'm at about 30%, which is still to high, but guys like balto and hillbilly and Tom and Art who pounded the "lose the fear" message to me finally got through to me. Yeah, it hurts. Hurts right now, but I'm not afraid of the bastard pain. F-it, as a matter of fact. I hate it. Hate it in my guts, but I'm through letting it have its way with me.
Good luck no matter what you do. I do know what it is like to be curled in a ball wishing for death. Be well.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
Edited by - Back2-It on 10/25/2011 12:39:36 |
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Bugbear
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2011 : 13:08:32
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Mark, apart from the pain and fear it will never go away (we are well acquainted with this fear) what else are you afraid of? Write a list. Get it out, man.
You have doubt about your diagnosis being TMS despite being seen by Sarno himself. You also have doubts about the epidural. Is there something in your life where you have complete clarity, total acceptance?
Pardon if I seem harsh. If I could talk to you in person I would be saying a whole lot more! |
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MarkD
41 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2011 : 14:54:07
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You are not being harsh.
I need the lecture.
I can't think of anything where I have complete clarity. I have an excellent marriage and know that I am with my soulmate. I know that she is who I want next to me on this journey, but like anything else there are life pressures in a marriage. I also have a two year old daughter, who I love dearly. But again being a father at 41 years old is not easy. I think I have clarity in my family life. Is it complete clarity, I don't know.
I like my job, but it isn't perfect (luckliy I have a job). I am not in major debt. My parents and grandparents are alive and well. Our relationships are tough but not strained.
What else is there to have clarity on. I have been consumed with the pain. I am clear that the constant pain has consumed my life and is affecting work, marriage, daughter, parents, grandparents... |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2011 : 19:33:23
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Today I went for a quick medical check-out on my hip and my thumb. Thank God I did - after the exam, as soon as the doc said "periformis syndrome" I thought, aha, I've heard that from Monte Huefle - his whole TMS thing is based on hip/butt pain.
And the thumb was tendonitis. I told the doc it was TMS and he had read Sarno, but what's a doc to do? For example there was an example on Yelp about this very doc, that someone had gone in with dizziness and he missed the fact she had a brain tumor. You can't blame them for sending people for tests up the wazoo with all the litigious peeps around.
But mine is just TMS. Sometimes it's a relief to do the doc thing.
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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Bugbear
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2011 : 02:16:21
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Funnily enough I come from a family, well the older generation at least, that prides itself on staying away from doctors. Several family members have lived into their 90's and have been known to have never taken an aspirin in their life. Perhaps as I who would be seen as letting the side down with all my ills feel shame and guilt over this? I'm still not a fan of doctors. I take what they say with a grain of salt. For instance I went to see one of the GPs at my doctor's practice about my migraines. She told me she had read the latest research on migraines and prescribed an extremely high dose of ibuprofen to be taken in conjunction with an equally high dose of paracetamol (Tylenol). I tried searching for this research on the net, couldn't find anything, went into my local pharmacy and asked the pharmacist what he thought about this. He told me that if I had come in with an actual prescription for these drugs at these doses, he would refuse to supply them. He would then ring the GP and have very strong words with her. So it pays to keep an open mind. The doses the GP wanted me to take could have proved fatal.
Mark, i see you at one end of the road, your job and loved ones at the other. In between there is the pain. You say the constant pain has consumed your life. Who/what has control of your life? I am reading an interesting book at the moment. It talks about the internal and external locus of control. For those with an internal locus, they believe that they have control and influence over themselves and their future. Those with an external locus of control believe that everything that happens to them is caused by external factors. For example my daughter failed her driving test 7 times. She is about to take it again this week. She has been driving with an instructor for two years now. She has been told she is a very good driver and there is no reason for failing the test. Her reasons for failing the test have included "it's the wrong time of day, there were too many buses on the road, people were beeping their horns so I thought I was doing something wrong, the tester was mean, they didn't give me a break, that particular test centre tends to fail more people than it passes." I'm sure there were others but you get the idea. All of these "reasons" were external factors. She has a definite external locus of control. Her catch phase is "everything happens for a reason" so in other words she feels she has no control and life is just going to wash over her. I too have learned my locus of control is primarily external. But we all have the power to shift this around.
I was once told the story of the man who feared the giant living in the next village. No one dared to go near him. One day this one man decided to visit this giant. He could see him from the distance. As he got closer the giant started to grow smaller, shrinking with every step he took. When he finally reached the spot where the giant had been standing, the giant had disappeared. I'll leave you to decide what that giant represented. |
Edited by - Bugbear on 10/26/2011 02:26:36 |
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MarkD
41 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2011 : 10:35:36
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After reading your post, I have to say that I am an external locus of control guy. it makes me sad to write that, but its true.
I am a half glass empty guy. I blame this ailment on anything but TMS. I have been in severe pain for 8 weeks. I sneezed. I wasn't lifting or exercising. I f'n sneezed. taht is the joke. something so simple as a sneeze has changed my life.
I know I am focusing on the pain and blaming the sneeze but that is where I am in my journey. I have fallen "off the TMS rails". Blaming the physical and not TMS. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2011 : 11:17:01
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It seems you know exactly what is going on, but you cannot accept it. You realize your are "off the rails" but refuse to do the work necessary to get back on. Instead, you seem resigned (or even eager) to accept the pain is physical.
Have you attended Dr. Sarno's group meetings recently? Have you continued with his prescribed therapist?
If the pain is TMS the way out is to ignore it and focus on the psychological realm, as difficult as it is to accomplish. You have to fight. For whatever reason, you cannot find the strength to do it. There may be something going on in your life that you are not fully facing up to. Things seem quite rosy on the outside, but the "child inside" is in a rage about something and resents the pressures you are putting on yourself. You need to keep trying to figure out what it might be, and push through the pain. |
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MarkD
41 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2011 : 14:40:10
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Yes, I am still speaking with Dr. Sarno, every other week. He is monitoring my pain medicine use. Vicodin at night to sleep. tramadol during the day. neither really help the pain, but the vicodin helps with the sleep.
I am still going to his therapist. Both disagree with my decision to get the epidural. My belief is that if I can get rid of the pain via placebo or not, I can concentrate on the psychological issuse that may be plaguing me. |
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Back2-It
USA
438 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2011 : 15:06:47
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkD
I am still going to his therapist. Both disagree with my decision to get the epidural. My belief is that if I can get rid of the pain via placebo or not, I can concentrate on the psychological issuse that may be plaguing me.
I debated the same: get rid of the pain, break the cycle of pain, and I may be able to concentrate on the psychological, but then the fear would remain, even if the pain was gone or diminished. Then my question was, would the pain come back because the fear was still lurking? And... I had no idea if an epidural or steroid shots would work on my pain, and one less doctor jabbing something in my spine was one less thing to worry about.
I'll go out on a limb here: would it make any sense to you to try an anti-depressant and/or an anti-anxiety drug before getting shot up?
I've been there, so I know what you mean pain-wise. Hope you find some relief.
Good luck!
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
Edited by - Back2-It on 10/26/2011 15:07:44 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2011 : 17:51:23
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I've come to understand that recovery takes a certain amount of inner strength. Most have it, but some don't. I've not read the whole thread MArkD, but it's clear you know the score. So why are you at your wits end, as you put it. I ask you, do you want to get better? If the answer is yes (and I don't automatically assume that it is....illness has its benefits), then go ahead and put what you've been told into practice.
Simple. We've all had debilitating pain. There's nothing special about your situation. You've seen the foremost TMS authority (twice?) and you've been pronounced healthy.
SO. What are you waiting for?
Something that might be of interest...Dr. Sarno has made the point that intense pain (did you say this all started for you with a sneeze) , meaning pain far in excess of what one would normally expect if the cause were structural, is in itself an indication of TMS.
Hope this doesn't sound harsh. But sometimes tough love is just the ticket.. |
Edited by - art on 10/26/2011 18:00:00 |
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Off the Rails
