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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
 Posted - 09/19/2011 : 17:25:25
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quote:
Either you don't recall his books, or misinterpreted his message, if you believe "discovering and acknowledging" repressed emotions is an essential part of recovery.
Dave, the entire theory is the substitution of symptom for dangerous emotion. I will quote the books for you tomorrow when I have time. This is what causes the blind man looking in a dark room for the black cat that might not be there.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2011 : 17:31:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Hillbilly
Dave, the entire theory is the substitution of symptom for dangerous emotion.
No, it is not substitution. It is distraction. But I know you disagree with this as well.
No need to quote the books; I find the debate itself to be a distraction and counterproductive to recovery for anyone who visits this forum looking for positive reinforcement of their belief and trust in Dr. Sarno's work.
I'll make you a deal: get a medical degree, treat a few thousand patients successfully, write a book, and I will gladly advertise your book on this site ;) |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2011 : 21:36:44
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Dave, now you are trying to pick a fight. I won't take the bait. Poor choice of words with substitution, but the point is the same: you either deal with the stuff hiding in the cobwebs or you will have symptoms. That is the foundation of the whole theory. The distraction stuff was his own addition to the defense theory that predated his birth.
So what about the point of treating the cause of symptoms, the point of my earlier post before we started on this tangential nonsense? If the cause isn't repressed emotions, then isn't Sarno's treatment plan poor medicine as defined by Hippocrates, Sir William Osler and Sarno himself? That sounds like just plain logic to me.
So, again, finding the cause is not only important, but essential for proper treatment. Right?
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2011 : 23:13:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Hillbilly
So, again, finding the cause is not only important, but essential for proper treatment. Right?
The cause is life. |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2011 : 04:31:59
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| I saw people in Burma worked 16 hours day shaping clay into bricks 7 days a week and never heard they ever get RS or tendonitis. I saw people in China worked 16 hours day in sweat shops making cheap products to sell all over the world and barely make enought to eat and yet no one ever get back pain. You rarely heard of tms in third world countries. (think of the rought life people have in Somalia, Afganistance, India slums...) with 50K Plus American soldiers died in Vietnam war and lots of the one who survived suffered from ptsd. More than 3 million Vietnamese died in the war and ptsd is unheard of in Vietnam. Seem like people in the West are more prone to tms, more prone to all these stress illness. I'm guessing if we apply Sarno's theory, only people in the West are able to repress their feeling. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2011 : 10:07:46
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quote:
Originally posted by balto
Seem like people in the West are more prone to tms, more prone to all these stress illness. I'm guessing if we apply Sarno's theory, only people in the West are able to repress their feeling.
Good observations and points Balto! I recall Dr. Sarno mentioning that African-American's in the US, generally don't get TMS. I wonder if that will be changing now that they are being mainstreamed into the general culture? I've heard that Obama is suffering from depression, a TMS affective equivalent.
All people on the planet have the ability to repress/suppress their feelings. The issue would be what is it about the "modern" culture that causes us to subconsciously have to do it to the degree that it creates psychosomatic TMS pain?
I guess TMS could be viewed as a luxury afforded by Western culture. |
Edited by - tennis tom on 09/21/2011 15:24:34 |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2011 : 20:16:19
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Personally I don't believe there is such a thing called subconcious mind. And I also don't believe repressed feeling about some events that happened long long ago is capable of causing tms. To me, any negative feeling when severe enough or prolong enough to hold one's focus for long enought will caused pain/anxiety (it doesn't have to be repressed). If repressed feeling could cause pain, most of those people in the third world would be crippled already. It doesn't make sense only Westerner are more prone to tms/anxiety. God made our brain the same no matter where you live.
Fear, and strong, prolong negative feeling will caused pain if one keep focus one's thought on that feeling. I suspect people in the third world (and maybe Black Americans) were able to avoid tms pains is because due to economic condition, they tend to live in a big family, in a crowded neighborhood, they tend to have close and constant interaction with love ones, neighbors, and friends, people who would help solved their problems, share their pain, help them accept the negative events, help them accept the unfair world around them. And that help one focus more on the world around them and less on one's self.
If you look back in the 40, 50's in America, the time before TV, cell phone, internet, video games... people spend their free time on the front porch talking with friends and neighbors. People interact more with each others, and that I think help people greatly dealing with the stress of everyday life. Now a day, I don't even know my neighbor's name after more than 10 years living next to him. People rarely have a chance to have dinner together. Some people I know can do texting with their fingers faster than they can talk. Kids have 1 or 2 real life friends but they would have 200 Facebook friends. With all these modern tools, lots of technology and people are being so isolated, so lonely. They always complained they don't have any free time and yet when they do have free time they don't know what to do with it.
If you can stop your fear of the pain, you will get rid of your pain.
If you can focus more on other instead of yourself, you will keep tms away from you. |
Edited by - balto on 09/21/2011 20:30:32 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2011 : 09:39:59
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quote:
Originally posted by balto
Personally I don't believe there is such a thing called subconcious mind.
Balto, although I agree with you on most TMS points, I respectfully disagree with you on that point. The actions of our autonomic nervous system, determined by our subconscious is the underpinning of TMS/psychosomatic theory. Although we may think we act due to conscious thought, there is a constant interplay between our emotional intuitive "sub-brain" and the conscious, cognitive "thinking" area of our brain. I would characterize TMS "knowledge-penicillin", as the processing agent, that enables us to integrate the two areas of our brain to cope with symptoms.
cheers
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2011 : 11:34:01
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Hi TT, I'm sure countless other people would disagree with me too. I could be be dead wrong, but it is just my belief. It is something that I came to believe in after decades of suffering and learning about my mindbody syndromes. Thanks for treating me with respect and don't talk down on me.
Psychology is not an exact science. It is full of "theories". There are no machine to test them, to prove them. There are no lab test we can do to verify them. Just like Dave said: "human beings will never know the true story of how TMS works in our brain". We just have to use whatever method that make sense and work for us, Sarno's or not Sarno's.
My thought is our symtoms were caused by something negative thoughts, events in the present, not something that happened long long ago in our childhood. Even if it is caused by something in your past, I still believe it is because something thing now in the present trigger and brought back that memory in the past. Just like that example Sarno gave in one of his book about a guy on on airplane met some old friend who told him that his ex fiance' is getting marry and he got a back pain attack. I don't think this have anything to do with repressed emotion or subconcious mind. Everything is right there in the present. That stupid old friend brought back thos bad memories about his ex fiance, not the subconcious mind did that. He re-live the past, he got p--- off because his loss is someone else gain... of course anyone in that situation would have some anxiety, tms, or stress symptoms.
I and many people I know that had tms, if we think back at each tms attack episode, most of the time it is preceeded shortly by some stressful events in our life. People who lost a love one, lost a job, or going through a nasty divorce... can get tms or anxiety attack within a few days or hours, and it has nothing to do with some repressed emotion happened in your childhood.
Dr. Sarno's books are all wonderful and I got lots of useful and important informations out of them, it just the part about repressed emotion could caused tms that I don't believe in. I didn't come to this conclusion by myself, Dr. Claire Weekes said so in her book: Hope and Help for your Nerve.
I believe that your memory is just your memory, repressed or not, it is not capable of causing pain. Unless you somehow brought it back, re-live it, focus on it. Who had suffered more than the Jewish people during W.W.II, and yet they rarely suffered from tms. Who had suffered more than the Cambodians during PolPot's Killing Field, and yet I have never met a Cambodian suffering from tms. Right here in the US, people lived a tough life during the Depression in the 1930's and during W.W.II, and you rarely see people of that generation have tms. I'm sure those people have a lot more of the so called "repressed emotions" than us. Why don't they suffer from tms/anxiety? I think it is because bad memories are just memories, they don't caused pain unless you bring them back to the present, and re-live them, and focus on them.
We all have negative things happened to us. For those who don't have tms/anxiety it is because they don't focus on the negatives. In study of people who live passed 100, One of the thing they have in common is they tend to get over negative events like dead of love one, financial difficulty... much more easy than the rest of us. Most centenarians have an innate ability to deal with stress, they don't focus on the negative. They have a healthy social life style with lots of love ones and friends around them most of the time. They rarely have time to think about themself.
Stop thinking about yourself and you will never have tms/anxiety. :)
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Javizy
United Kingdom
76 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2011 : 11:40:26
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quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
The actions of our autonomic nervous system, determined by our subconscious is the underpinning of TMS/psychosomatic theory. Although we may think we act due to conscious thought, there is a constant interplay between our emotional intuitive "sub-brain" and the conscious, cognitive "thinking" area of our brain. I would characterize TMS "knowledge-penicillin", as the processing agent, that enables us to integrate the two areas of our brain to cope with symptoms.
The ANS may operate unconsciously, but to say it's determined by the subconscious is inaccurate. A multitude of factors can influence the condition of your ANS, potentially including the subconscious. Sleep patterns, diet, eating habits, working hours, and medication are a few among them. If anything, you could say the health of the ANS is determined by your lifestyle.
Somebody suffering with generalised anxiety or in a high-pressure job wouldn't tend to repress emotions, but the chronically maintained stress in effect strangles the parasympathetic nervous system, and throws the whole system out of balance. It's no wonder they develop various physical symptoms, and that's without even considering the countless effects of stress hormones, muscle tension and other aspects of the stress response.
I'm not suggesting the role of the subconscious in ANS disorders should be ignored, but nor do I believe it provides a one-size-fits-all explanation. Many people find relief from Sarno's books simply because they're able to stop worrying: for the first time in months or years their body is allowed to begin to restore some order! Others have much more complicated psychological issues, and have to go about treatment accordingly, but I don't see the value of forcing this idea on everyone - even Obama. In fact it's dangerous, since the stress caused by looking for something that isn't there is enough to perpetuate or even cause symptoms. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2011 : 13:51:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Hillbilly
Dave, now you are trying to pick a fight. I won't take the bait. Poor choice of words with substitution, but the point is the same: you either deal with the stuff hiding in the cobwebs or you will have symptoms. That is the foundation of the whole theory. The distraction stuff was his own addition to the defense theory that predated his birth.
So what about the point of treating the cause of symptoms, the point of my earlier post before we started on this tangential nonsense? If the cause isn't repressed emotions, then isn't Sarno's treatment plan poor medicine as defined by Hippocrates, Sir William Osler and Sarno himself? That sounds like just plain logic to me.
So, again, finding the cause is not only important, but essential for proper treatment. Right?
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
In my opinion, Sarno's treatment works because the patient stops worrying once he's convinced his pain can't hurt him. If Sarno feels the need to tack on a somewhat antiquated Freudian interpretation, I don't see how that's bad medicine. The bottom line is, his primary insight concerning the psychosomatic nature of so many painful symptoms remains brilliant and vastly useful.
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2011 : 15:47:33
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| Art, as usual, you are great at simplifying, summing up, and getting to the point. I agree with your point. Sarno is obviously on the right track even if some of the details might be faulty. I wish more experts in the psych profession would get interested in this area and provide more up to date evidence for his theories. I think neuroscience is already doing so. |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2011 : 16:05:15
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quote:
Originally posted by art
If Sarno feels the need to tack on a somewhat antiquated Freudian interpretation, I don't see how that's bad medicine.
It is bad medicine to quite a few people I know of in life and on this forum. I for one wasted 3,4 years of my life going from one therapist to the next looking for that one repressed emotion, looking for that something that happened long ago in my childhood that caused my pain. And all I should have done, just like you've said, quit worrying. 3,4 years is a long time Art.
Wrldtrv is right, you are good at simplyfying thing. Man of a few words. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2011 : 16:26:19
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quote:
Originally posted by balto
quote:
Originally posted by art
If Sarno feels the need to tack on a somewhat antiquated Freudian interpretation, I don't see how that's bad medicine.
It is bad medicine to quite a few people I know of in life and on this forum. I for one wasted 3,4 years of my life going from one therapist to the next looking for that one repressed emotion, looking for that something that happened long ago in my childhood that caused my pain. And all I should have done, just like you've said, quit worrying. 3,4 years is a long time Art.
Wrldtrv is right, you are good at simplyfying thing. Man of a few words.
I've argued endlessly that journaling, therapy, trying to get to the bottom of every thought and feeling is a waste of time and counterproductive.
That said, I don't believe any competent TMS therapist including Sarno would have recommended you do what you did. . I see nothing in his theory that suggests you need to spend years in therapy...at least for the vast majority of TMS sufferers. In practical terms, what does that even mean, to get to the bottom of "that one repressed emotion."
I'm sorry to say Balto that if that's what you were doing the fault does not lie with Dr. Sarno but your own insufficient understanding..
p.s. wrld, check in the mail :>) |
Edited by - art on 09/23/2011 16:39:14 |
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2011 : 00:28:06
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The only problem with discrediting the subconscious is... why do so many people seem to find help when they start uncovering things? You can read their stories on these forums.
I also wouldn't say that Sarno's theory solely rests on suppressed childhood experiences or emotions, either. He talks at length about how personality type plays such a role in how these emotions affect us. (The goodist, etc.) Now, I'm just speaking from personal experience... but I can absolutely feel conscious anger about daily interactions with people. (Co-workers, etc.) Not extreme emotions, but annoyances, etc. If I can feel that consciously, what might be going on beneath the surface. If you believe there is no "beneath the surface"... what are dreams? Why do smells and sights make us happy/sad without explanation? What about displaced anger and similar theories? I mean, it would seem to me that we're beyond the question of whether or not various layers exist in our mind... but only how each affects us should really be in discussion, imo.
As for Dr. Claire Weeks, I consider myself somewhat of an expert on her work. I've read everything she's written more than once, and some of her works that own are tattered and highlighted beyond recognition. I've listened to Pass Through Panic and her other audio work literally hundreds of times. I think she is the absolute authority on anxiety, and possibly depression. (At least some types.) I don't think any other doctor/author has come close.
All that said, while Dr. Weekes believes that fear of fear is the main culprit in solving "nervous illness"... she doesn't really deal with back pain and other such physical afflictions. Now, since anxiety is one of my main presenting symptoms, her work is still highly relevant to me. But, Dr. Weeks also says that while she thinks people do waste years in psychotherapy (and I believe that to an extent)... she also mentions "insoluble problems."
She states that such problems can keep people nervously ill. She states that while facing, floating and accepting are still the primary methods to deal with the symptoms... she talks about seeking a proper "doctor, minister or friend" to help the patient "find a more acceptable point of view." Now, call me crazy... but that sound a bit like therapy.
See, she states that she believes in most cases, no "deep seated" problem is keeping these people ill. It's simply fear of fear. But, in my opinion... one can't take that to mean that ALL people are simply afraid of their symptoms.
It's fine to say "just lose the fear of your symptoms." But, perhaps fear is part of your core. Perhaps it's deeper than your conscious mind has access to? Perhaps personality traits help KEEP you in a state of fear.
See, I've spent the last year reading her books and practicing her methods religiously. I can say without question that her methods have helped me make major strides in getting better, losing the major fear and returning to a more normal life.
But, I'm also not better yet... and her work states that by now, I really should be farther along than I am. So, after a little over a year... when you stop making progress, you have to start considering other options. I've had many people around me... therapists and friends remind me that I've had some trauma in my life, and a good deal of current stress. When I first became stricken with anxiety, it was due to a medication reaction. So, I thought it was all physical. But, a year and change later... to still be dealing with the level of anxiety/panic I'm dealing with, I have to face reality and realize this is something in my personality that's allowed this to continue.
Since I've been studying about TMS, I've made some progress. Could just be coincidence. I've also gotten further away from my last dose of Xanax, so some of it could just be withdrawal lessening. But, I have a sneaking suspicion that some of the TMS work has helped.
Now, will it be journaling.... or using psychotherapy, or even going back and trying to talk through and possibly resolve some of the childhood issues (parents divorce, abusive situations, etc.) that help? I don't know, but there's plenty of circumstantial evidence to lead me to believe I shouldn't be closing doors on any modality of treatment at this stage.
Essentially... I don't know why it appears that some people think you can only apply ONE mode of treatment to yourself. Perhaps Claire Weekes provides the best methods for accepting and limiting current anxiety/panic... and perhaps Sarno's methods may help uncover deeper personality issues. (Yes, that may even reside in a place in your mind that isn't in your daily sight-line.)
I absolutely agree that losing the fear is paramount. Sarno states that himself. But, for some people... just deciding to do that consciously might not be enough. There may be more going on. For them, multifaceted approaches may prove the most useful.
Just my two cents, from a guy who's admittedly just on the brink of learning about all of this.
_____________________________
-1/2010 - Developed chronic sinus problems. ENTs/Docs can't find anything
-5/29/2010 - Doc gives cocktail of allergy meds which induces first ever panic attack/anxiety.
-7/16/2010 - Anxiety stays/worsens - put on Xanax
2/1/2011 - Began Xanax taper - Withdrawal starts - full body chaos
-6/11/2011 - Last dose of Xanax. Physical/emotional chaos continues for several months.
-Now: Taking it day by day, looking for real answers and ways to heal myself without medical poison. |
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Javizy
United Kingdom
76 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2011 : 03:40:21
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quote:
Originally posted by bryan3000
The only problem with discrediting the subconscious is... why do so many people seem to find help when they start uncovering things? You can read their stories on these forums.
It's not clean cut either way, I feel. Another thing you can see in posts here is that there are people who don't stop worrying, don't stop stressing and don't take time to relax. If these people were to make what they felt was a breakthrough in therapy, how do you think they'd react? I'd guess that they'd feel happy, positive, relaxed: the complete opposite of the negative psychology that's driving their symptoms on.
Not many people believe optimism can be good for your body, but positive emotions can bring chemical changes about in the body, and even activate/deactivate genes. This has all been proven scientifically, and it shows that you can't underestimate the effect that worry and stress is having on people with psychosomatic illnesses.
There's also some neuroscientific research about repressed emotions, which I can't seem to find right now, but I remember something about hardened brain cells in the part of the brain that stores memories that become soft through psychotherapy. So I want to stress that I'm not dismissing the role of something other than the conscious mind, whether it's what can be referred to as the subconscious or not. I'm sure there are people who are the opposite of the worriers I described above, but require whatever it is that psychotherapy brings to allow them to overcome their problems.
It's certainly interesting to discuss, and it may well be necessary to explore for some TMSers, but clouding the whole syndrome in the mystery of the poorly defined subconscious leads people to - and this has been shown time and time again on this board - overlook simple lifestyle changes like destressing, thinking positively, eliminating fear, sleeping and eating properly etc in favour of throwing all their eggs in the often unreliable basket of psychotherapy. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2011 : 04:07:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Javizy
There's also some neuroscientific research about repressed emotions, which I can't seem to find right now,
You may be thinking of the work of Dr. Candace Pert on polyneuropeptides. |
Edited by - tennis tom on 09/24/2011 04:09:04 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2011 : 04:39:00
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quote:
Originally posted by balto
...My thought is our symtoms were caused by something negative thoughts, events in the present, not something that happened long long ago in our childhood. Even if it is caused by something in your past, I still believe it is because something thing now in the present trigger and brought back that memory in the past.
This quote by TMS Dr. Marc Sopher may help to clarify the various sources of TMS pain:
From Dr. John Sarno's THE DIVIDED MIND:
Chapter Ten: "A Family Doctor's Experience With Mindbody Medicine"
by Marc Soper, M.D.
Page 344:
"...the unconscious mind is the site of repressed and suppressed emotions. It is where the reservoir of rage lurks...I think it provides a compelling image for the origins of pain.
To summarize: Dr. Sarno has identified three potential sources for this rage in the unconscious. In each person the quantity from each source will vary.
1. Stresses and strains of daily life
2. The residue of anger from infancy and childhood
3. Internal conflict (self-imposed pressure--the clash of the id
and the superego; it also comes from perfectionsit and goodist
traits)
Dr. Sopher's website is: www.themindbodysyndrome.com
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2011 : 05:22:16
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quote:
Originally posted by art
quote:
Originally posted by balto
quote:
Originally posted by art
If Sarno feels the need to tack on a somewhat antiquated Freudian interpretation, I don't see how that's bad medicine.
It is bad medicine to quite a few people I know of in life and on this forum. I for one wasted 3,4 years of my life going from one therapist to the next looking for that one repressed emotion, looking for that something that happened long ago in my childhood that caused my pain. And all I should have done, just like you've said, quit worrying. 3,4 years is a long time Art.
Wrldtrv is right, you are good at simplyfying thing. Man of a few words.
I've argued endlessly that journaling, therapy, trying to get to the bottom of every thought and feeling is a waste of time and counterproductive.
That said, I don't believe any competent TMS therapist including Sarno would have recommended you do what you did. . I see nothing in his theory that suggests you need to spend years in therapy...at least for the vast majority of TMS sufferers. In practical terms, what does that even mean, to get to the bottom of "that one repressed emotion."
I'm sorry to say Balto that if that's what you were doing the fault does not lie with Dr. Sarno but your own insufficient understanding..
p.s. wrld, check in the mail :>)
You're probably right Art. When it come to problem in your brain, it is more often than not it is the patient's fault that he didn't get well. That's why Dr. Sarno screened his patients before he accepted them for treatment. I guess he want to make sure his patients are suggestible to his explaination and "fit in" with his treatment.
I had one of those "book cured" but then months later the pain and many other symptoms keep coming back and coming back. When you're in terrible pain, when your anxiety attacks keep your head foggy, scared, and you're suffering from all kind of symptoms and you read a book from an expert and the book's main emphasys on the cause of your pain is your subconcious mind and childhood repressed emotion. What would one naturally do? Therapy is expensive and people would prefer not to use it if they don't have to. But when you have tried everything the good Dr taught in the book and failed to get well. In desperation one would naturally try psychotherapy in the hope that therapist would be able to unlock your subconcious mind and release those repressed emotion...
But of course like you've said, the fault is with me for failing to educated myself sufficiently. I guess part of it is those therapists were good at convincing me that I needed their services.
Years later I talked to a friend who happened to be a therapist. He told me he were never able to unlock anyone's subconcious mind and release their repressed emotions. The most important aspect of his job is to gain the patients' trust, be a good friend, a good listener. Because most of his patients are lonely souls, they usually get better when they can find someone they trust, someone willing to listen to them, to their problems. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2011 : 05:48:26
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Yes Balto, like Pogo said "We have found the enemy and he is us." Dr. Sarno says only about 10% of those who come to him are receptive to TMS/psychosomatic theory. Of that 10%, about another 10% need more than the basic program of lectures and require his TMS enlightened therapists. Dr. Donald Dubin, who was Dr. Schechter's primary therapist, said he didn't need more than a dozen sessions to get the TMS message across.
Very few therapists on the planet are TMS savy, and as per the medical/industrial complex, it undermines their income streams to cure patients quickly. As you say, most therapists are "paid-friends". The one I went to for my "clinical depression", I found so non-friendly, it motivated me strongly to cure myself faster, to avoid the unpleasantness of those 50 minutes.
Dr. Sarno in his latest book, "THE MINDBODY CONNECTION", theorizes TMS as a PROTECTOR rather than a "punisher" as Freud posited. Maybe you needed your TMS as a protective defense mechanism, but it is unfortunate TMS practitioners are so few and far between, that you could not receive competent help to speed your journey down the TMS path.
I feel, given the lack of TMS practitioners on the planet, the books are the #1 resource to those committed to TMS education. The gremlin often blinds us to what we personally need from the books, but by reading and re-reading, slowly and thoughtfully, eventually the TMS "knowledge penicillin" truth can be found in them.
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DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
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Edited by - tennis tom on 09/25/2011 09:32:19 |
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Question: Time?
