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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
 Posted - 10/28/2007 : 10:46:25
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Skizzik-
Your story is inspirational and I do thank you for posting it. It's a challenge to understand and accept that the pain is indeed created by something within us- it truly is like having a monkey on your back.
I think Dave is probably right in that it fades away and you can't quite pinpoint a moment. I do believe I must have a severe case- I'm sure that is why I feel as I do. I'd like to be one that felt relief from just reading, but clearly I am not.
I think the biggest hurdle is repudiating the physical cause. When Sarno states that
TMS is a spectrum of structural and psychosomatic, with some coming down more on one side than the other, I start to wonder am I one that is more structural? Am I kidding myself?
Really I think we should not beat ourselves up over this because after all, most people would not accept TMS - period. It takes alot to put aside what every single medical professional tells us.
I'm starting to think Sarno does not encourage us to push the exercise part of this too fasat because he understands how devastating the setbacks can be.
You are one brave guy and your post helped me alot. I have been out of commission so long that I am "chomping at the bit" for this to resolve. But I know no matter how much I want it, it takes time- maybe its my angry inner child -I want it and I want it NOW!
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2007 : 10:59:06
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ACL-
Yes I absolutely saw the osteophyte part of Sarno's book. I recall my MRI saying mine
was a "diffuse osteophyte formation stretching across the entire spinal canal." So I wonder whether this is more than a typical osteophyte etc. How can I not think that? But then it does not note any spinal cord compression. And despite being told that the osteophyte is pinching the nerve in three places, I do not have arm pain or numbness and my reflexes are normal. The neurosurgeon could see that yet still he attributed the pain to pinched nerves.
But yes, it is a matter of belief. I think I do need to hear from someone I trust that
this is just some "gray hair" of the spine type thing. Unfortunately it will take some time to undue the mental damage that has been done. |
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armchairlinguist
USA
1397 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2007 : 11:13:34
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Where is this bit about a spectrum of structural and psychosomatic? I don't remember anything about that. My understanding has always been that yes TMS can present in someone who also has structural problems, but Sarno believes such problems are rare and most people he treats have no structural problems at all.
Most of us are the rule and not the exception, but we all have lots of experience being otherwise when we have chronic pain. It does take time to reverse this.
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It's not 100% belief that's required, but 100% commitment. |
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2007 : 11:27:34
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Also wanted to mention that I'm confused when Sarno states that pinched nerves don't cause pain, but numbness. I know a distinction is made between radiculopathy and myelopathy (spelling?) the former causing pain and perhaps numbness, the latter causing numbness. The pinched nerve could come from either a herniation or a bony spur, the latter more common in old people.
Sarno doesn't seem to make a distinction -totally discounting the pinched nerve as a cause of pain.
It would be great if Sarno had a website where he posted the MRI reports of his patients who have recovered. Be nice to see where I fit on the spectrum.
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2007 : 11:46:44
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ACL-
Re your question- its actually in the back of TDM, the portion written by Douglas Hoffman, not Sarno. But I assume since its in Sarno's book, he wouldn't disagree.
He talks about structural pain vs. psychosomatic pain-pg. 325
"There are many instances in which I believe there is a spectrum between the psychosomatic and structural as the source of pain."
Then he goes on to describe patients and how some pain is closer to the structural and some not.
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electraglideman
USA
162 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2007 : 12:01:49
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Lidge, about 5 or 6 years ago I had the same symptoms your having with your neck. Doc said I had a pinched nerve and I could feel right where it was with my finger. It hurt night and day. It consumed my life. I had the fusion surgery and it didn't help a damn bit.
One day I read an article about Dr. Sarno and I knew it was for me. It took more than a year for the pain to gradually leave.
So I know what you are going through. Go ahead and take some pain meds to help relieve the pain for now until you see your Doctor and for crying out loud stop reading about pinched nerves and other physical abnormalities.
Its going to get better if you stay with Sarno's methods. I promise. |
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2007 : 14:37:01
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Electraglide- hey, if only the meds worked!
I'm so sorry you went through the hell of surgery with no relief.
I have one thing that I need to look into from a structural standpoint
(osteoporosis of my spine (very near to it) and how it may be affecting
my back.
I think for me, as long as there is even one "loose end" I will have doubt creeping in.
I just tried to use a leaf blower and couldn't even hold it w/o back pain.
Resuming normal activities is not happening for me right now.
I don't like it - and yes all this pain has consumed my life.
Thanks for telling me it gets better because right now it sure doesn't feel like it. |
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electraglideman
USA
162 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2007 : 16:31:58
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Lidge I can tell by your post that you are overcome with fear. The TMS Gemlin feeds and grows fast on fear. As the fear grows the pain increases and the cycle begins to snowball out of proportion. Does that sound familiar?
Come to think of it the meds didn't help me either.
When I looked at my MRI I saw three discs that looked horrible. I ask the Doc, pointing to the area in my neck, "what is that?" He said with a serious voice "You've have three degenerated discs". I was thinking to myself "How in the hell am I able to even hold my head up?" I left the office feeling twice as bad as when I walked in. I wanted surgery as soon as possble. Remember this is how these guys make their living.
After I read Sarno's books I learned that having degenerated discs is a perfectly normal abnormality for every adult and most of them have absolutely no pain from it.
When we read the books and learn about people becoming pain free in two to four weeks and it doesn't happen for us the fear and anger increases because are perfectionist. Our low self-esteem goes down even further making the fear climb even higher causing the pain to, yes thats right, increase.
Like I said, I know what your going through. Hang in there.
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2007 : 18:26:24
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Electraglide - Is your name from the old Robert Blake movie?
You have me down to a tee. The fear does feed the gremlin. For me, the endless doctor
consults have taken a really bad toll- between the typical scare language used and the contradictory diagnoses, etc. I think I have just been traumatized. Underneath is a truckload of anger. So yes, the whole process of trying to rule out (or in) the physical has in itself become a rage inducing process for me.
Did you ever have neurological symptoms or arm pain or was it purely neck pain? Everything I read says that the fusion is not very effective for neck pain. So I'm really baffled how these guys can perform it in good conscience.
I can understand asking for the surgery- when it goes on so long you just want to put it behind you so you can go on with your life. What the heck did they say to you when you told them you were still in pain?
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2007 : 19:00:56
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quote:
Originally posted by lidge
I can understand asking for the surgery- when it goes on so long you just want to put it behind you so you can go on with your life. What the heck did they say to you when you told them you were still in pain?
read what the surgeon told bb65 pre and post op.http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1836
btw, glad ya responded electra, cause I wanted to post to lidge about someone here who had "neck surgery regret" and I forgot who.
also lidge, like the neck surgery you were talking about, they say that back surgery does nothing for back pain either, only stops sciatica, so w/ that I kept telling myself "whats the point?" Might as well keep trying to think psycholgical. |
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lidge
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2007 : 19:51:00
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Thanks for the link to that story skizzik. What a great post- just unbelievable -
I think Sarno is right when he says people come to him in desperation. I guess for me,
there was the thought that maybe surgery would help my neck, but maybe this back pain
served a purpose- to get me thinking about this differently so I didn't do something
I'd regret.
That doctor with his dictaphone- don't you love these guys? I wanted to throttle him just reading the story. |
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electraglideman
USA
162 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2007 : 20:42:03
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1. I ride a Harley Davidson Electraglide.
2. Along with the neck pain I had a tingle in my left thumb which has never gone away but I have become use to it and never think about it. As a matter of fact as I type this its the first time I have noticed the tingle in a long time.
3. The Doc told me there was a possibility that the surgery would not take away the pain but I had hurt so bad for so long I was willing to take the chance.
I was mad about it for a long time but Sarno says in his books to forget about it.
I haven't had neck pain in years but I still have flare ups in different parts of my body. Right now I'm fighting sciatic pain which started months ago but it is getting better every day.
I had an xray taken of my lower back which revealed a slipped disc(betwen l4 and l5). L4 has slpped foward (spondylolisthesis). The xray is scary to look at. I had to go back and reread Sarno's books again and again. He says he has never had a patient with spondylolisthesis who didn't have TMS.
I bought a copy of Sarno's lecture (the Mindbody Prescription Video). The man has a very calming voice as he explains TMS. It has really helped me. Bought it off E-Bay $25.
When this sciatic pain first started I could hardly get out of bed in the morning and I walked around humped over like a 100 year old man. I'm now back in the gym working out with about 90% of the pain gone.
1. Just keep in mind Sarno has helped thousands of people recover from their pain who have much worse spinal abnormalities than you have.
2. Do not and I repeat do not put a time limit on your recovery.
3. Keep reading Sarno and this forum. There are people here who can really help and support you. They sure have helped me over the years but you have to do the work yourself every day.
I hope this has helped you.
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stanfr
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2007 : 22:27:03
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When i had severe sciatica, they tried to persuade me surgery was the only option too (that is, after i tried 5 chiropractors, acupuncture, months of physical therapy, traction etc etc etc). When i first saw my MRI with bulging and herniated discs (L4,5 if i recall) i almost immediately got major numbness in my entire leg. That was atually a good thing, since it was clear that i had a psychological reaction to the 'physical' finding. I didn't take Sarno's word for it when i first read his book after finding it in the local library (i read every book on back pain, hoping to find an answer). I was skeptical, even though i related to the book, so i went to a local med school library and began reading journal articles and books on the subject. That's where i found the famous NEng journal article, and it became quickly clear that if 'mainstream medecine' had accepted the idea that herniated discs cause pain, the research wasn't so clear. I read numerous articles grasping at straws at precisely how or what mechanism was responsible for the pain. Like you, I noticed that the expected symptoms from the discs did not quite match up with where i actually felt numbness. When i questioned the spinal doc, his response was "well, its all related to the sciatic nerve...blah blah blah" Another Mercedes lighting up in his eyes. The hand "expert" i saw for my carpal tunnel (which i also cured) was so anxious to perform 4 seperate surgeries on my ulnar and carpal nerves (about $24K worth) that he suggested using his associate for a second opinion to get it past insurance  . I just ran from that butcher. So, im familiar with the routine. You clearly see that your symptoms are not making logical sense from a physical standpoint, so i urge you to stop obsessing over it and get on with the hard work mentioned here. It will get better, believe it. |
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Feeling Distraught
