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allen_non
55 Posts |
 Posted - 03/28/2007 : 13:17:56
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Hi everybody,
I was here for awhile about a year ago with low back pain. Not completely gone, but have been doing very well with it, living my life, etc, and have many of you to thank for the insights & help.
Now my shoulder is acting up (started about 6 weeks ago). I had rotator cuff surgery back in 2004 after a year of trying to rehab. It was 95% torn (due to a bad fall), and that scares me because if I had applied the TMS approach, I would have probably have tried to "dismiss it" and it would have soon been 100% torn. (I had several dr appts to get it checked out, & everytime it came back as a possible minor tear, because the location & nature of the tear didn't show up well on the MRI. Once the dr got inside, it was "whoa"!)
So, now that I'm having some pain there again, obviously I'm "concerned". When I workout, doing military dumbell presses, the first few sets are rather uncomfortable, but as the workout progresses, the pain gradually goes away. I'm not noticing any significant loss of strength. I definitely fit the TMS personality, plus, my stress level and other mental junk is about as active as it was a year ago.
This recent pain came during the first rep of the session, there was no "pop" or other problem, just a feeling of "gee that didn't feel too good". In addition to the shoulder pain, there is also some muscle soreness/ involvement in my armpit/ "lat" area. Then I reduced weight, and still cannot get rid it. The shoulder does not hurt all the time, mainly just when I'm doing the overhead pressing.
I think I read somewhere that pain which goes away during exercise is likely TMS, but I also have read that during exercise, the body releases endorphins which relieve pain as well. So, who's right?
I'm considering going back to my doctor (or another one), but hate to because he has never liked my somewhat extreme modes of exercise, and always says at the end of my appointment "see you on your next injury".
Any opinions on whether this is likely TMS or not? Not expecting doctors' advice here (unless you are one, which would be great), but I am interested in the opinions of the good people here.
Thanks,
Allen |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2007 : 12:37:03
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Allen,
Again, I am so terribly sorry that your post got ignored in light of the ridiculous drama that happened on mine...I apologize for my contribution in that and how you suffered because of it..please forgive me.
I work out too, with light weights only..I stopped for four months when I was recently back home in NY and now I am starting again..The whole working out and TMS issue is very interesting because we have to consider conditioning..I believe that I feel an increase in some TMS neck pain after a work out because I "expect" to feel the pain...
You also mentioned that a year ago you were under alot of stress and now you are again...That is something that sounds alot like TMS...I cannot believe that your doctor says "see you with the next injury!" That is crazy that a doctor would say that to a patient, even joking around! In any case, it won't hurt to do all the TMS work again..ie..reading/journalling...Dr. Sarno says repetition is important in our recovery!
Please don't leave the forum..There are some WONDERFUL people on here with SOOOO much wisdom and caring support! Hopefully you will soon get more replies as soon as people read your reply on my thread!
God bless you and a warm hug,
Karen |
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allen_non
55 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2007 : 12:48:22
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Hi Karen,
No apology needed for me- I just wanted to remind the folks that there are people here needing TMS help and a lot of energy was being wasted.
I'm not a fixture here anyway, and I wasn't threatening to "pick up my toys & go home". Just saying, "hey, if I can't get some help here, I gotta go where I can get help".
We conversed some when I was on here last year. I'm glad you've been having some positives in your life after all you went thru earlier.
I've loaned out my Mind Body Connection and Fred Amir books (naturally when I really need them, like a dope) so I'm thinking about getting TDM. I recall TT really recommended it, like a "fast acting remedy" compared to an out-of-date prescript. Is there really that much newer better stuff in there?
Thanks for responding!
God bless,
Allen |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2007 : 12:57:10
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Oh my goodness, Allen...I am sorry that I forgot about us talking last year! Now I remember, of course! You were very helpful to me! That makes me feel even more guilty about your being ignored because of my crazy thread...Thank you for accepting my apology!
I started TDM and didn't finish it yet..I brought it to NYC with me but was busy learning songs for gigs there and never got back to it...I have scanned it and read some and I loved it! I think you should read it...In my view, everything Dr. Sarno has to say is helpful! I wanted so badly to go visit him when I was in NY but couldn't afford him at the time..He is very expensive..Hopefully with these doors opening for me I can go see him in the future!
My memory is not soo good these days, no fooling...I think it might be hormonal, as embarassing as that is to admit..I am in my late 40's and that is a time of major hormonal shifts...I say all this because I have a memory that you and I wrote via regular email for awhile as well...Please refresh my bad memory if we did...I definitely remember writing you on here and how much you helped me!
I will be praying for your swift recovery! Stay in touch!
Hugs and God bless,
Karen |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2007 : 12:59:26
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| PS....I can mail you my copy of the Fred Amir book if you like..:) |
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allen_non
55 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2007 : 13:06:41
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Hey Karen, no need to send the FA book (thanks though!). The friend who has it is local, I could collect it if I had to. I'm a slow reader too. I think I may go ahead & get TDM, and I couldn't read both at the same time.
Yeah we did email a little bit last year. I sent you a dvd with some various exercises which might help you with your neck & upper back stuff.
Gotta run for now, will check back probably tomorrow.
Take care,
-A- |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2007 : 13:12:24
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Oh my goodness, Allen..That is right!!...Wow...my memory is really bad...Well, at the time I was in such incredible pain I couldn't see straight, guess I blocked those memories out...It is better to read those helpful books slowly anyway..to give yourself a chance to digest the concepts and put them into practice..I think I am going to have to re-read the whole lot with the way I am feeling now..lol..
Glad we are back in touch! Even if it happened in a weird way...Drop me a line when you have a chance via regular email..The address is peezly@hotmail.com in case you don't have it anymore...I would like to stay in touch!
Hope you feel all better very soon!!
God bless and hugs,
~Karen |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2007 : 14:04:14
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Allen,
Have you considered doing therapy - the Insight therapy that Sarno recommends.
Your TMS demon is using your surgery site as a new area for pain - this sounds completely like TMS. Of course, you can have the MRI but I bet it will show nothing |
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Littlebird
USA
391 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2007 : 14:18:08
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Hi,
I don't know anything about shoulder problems, but since you mentioned your stress level and other mental stuff being active, maybe it would be helpful to do some journaling to see if anything comes up that could be causing this new episode of increased pain. You also might find it helpful to read the book The Divided Mind, if you haven't already done that. There are quite a few excerpts in a past thread, to give you an idea of what the book is like. Maybe just reading through that thread will be enough of a refresher to help you analyze whether this is more likely a TMS problem or a physical one. Here's a link to that thread: http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
Hope things improve for you! |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2007 : 00:34:08
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Allan,
First, just in case it is physical rather than TMS, I wouldn't do the military press at all. That exercise is probably the biggest stressor on the shoulder joint.
Second, again, just in case it is physical, yes, exercise releases endorphins and that would be why you wouldn't feel pain.
As for whether you have TMS or an injury, it would seem more complicated in your case since you say you did indeed have a RC that was 95% torn. In my own case, where I have had a couple of bouts of shoulder problems, TMS seems more likely because of the sometimes illogical pattern of the symptoms.
To complicate the matter more, a condition does not have to be pure TMS or pure injury. It could start as a mild injury and then be hijacked by the brain and develop into full-blown TMS. Why? Because one would be more convinced that it was physical and treat it as such. |
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allen_non
55 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2007 : 05:39:46
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Don't know who to thank first! Littlebird, Suz, SA, Wrldtrv, thanks!
Suz, I'm not familiar with the Sarno Insight therapy- I may have read it & forgot it though--which book does he mention it? I only have Mind Body Connection right now.
Littlebird, thanks for the links. I am planning to get TDM as it is the latest. Also looking at the Scott Brady book, as I'm also a Christian and struggle with not measuring up there as well.
Wrldtrv,
I read some of your posts awhile back & saw some of your shoulder woes. You hit the nail on the head- it was easy for me to "fix" my back with Sarno, since all I had was DDD & some bulging, but no real injury. With the shoulder, this TMS has a real advantage since 3 years ago there was a real injury and some major reconstruction (the Doc cut the remaining 5% of the superspinatus tendon, cleaned up the ends, & re-assembled). It healed very well, & I have been working out with around 70# dumbells and am very careful with my technique, plus won some strength-endurance competitions.
As far as giving up the MP, I know what you mean about the stress it puts on the shoulder. I have been reluctant to give it up as (1) I love the drill & (2) I hate to give TMS the victory. My thoughts too are that the TMS is picking an easy target for my fear, and that the slightest little twinge would just add to the charade. I did notice last night as I was brushing my teeth and thinking about all this that I was getting fresh twinges in the shoulder area. My toothbrush isn't 70#!
I have an appointment next week with a chiro who does Active Release Techniques. He also works for the Atlanta Falcons football team. I figure he can at least do some basic clinical testing & hopefully grind out some of the knots. I haven't really noticed any of the weakness (due to tendon tearing) that I had before. Can TMS also fake the clinical symptoms of RC damage (like difficulty resisting downward pressure on outstretched arm by doc)?
Finally, I would not be one bit surprised to find this to be TMS. I got my back probably 90% better, but there is still that 10% that I basically "just made peace" with. Probably means I still have some mental/ emotional work to do. I looked at the journaling guide on from a recent posted link here (can't remember which post, but it's real new here) and am thinking I'll give it a go.
Thanks everyone for reading, and please post if you think of anything else. I guess you never really get over TMS, you just learn to control it & its manifestations.
God bless,
Allen |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2007 : 08:04:31
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Allen,
You just have to watch the Dr. Scott Brady video that our fellow Christian, 2Scoops posted! It is WONDERFUL! Last night I was in so much pain that I wanted to take an advil and go to sleep..Instead I watched the video and journalled! I had a great nights sleep and less pain this morning! I sooo understand your frustration, especially hearing about brushing your teeth...I have the same experience...Even after doing very minor things, the pain can get worse..And if it happens the day or so after working out, my mind starts to think "Oh no, what did i do this time!?" But, honestly, for both of us, it's probably just plain old TMS!
Interestingly, Scott Brady talks about how TMS runs rampant in the Christian community because we so often stuff our emotions and are such goodists..(Although, I must admit that I didn't stuff mine here w/ that other thread! And..as a Christian, I do have my tail between my legs about how I behaved so defensively..) Anyway..PLEASE watch the video..I am going to get the book too! And I was looking for the dvd you sent me and I cannot find it! I am so unorganized these days..In any case, I have faith you will recover quickly from this and you are in my prayers!!!
Hugs and God bless,
Karen |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2007 : 08:26:19
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PS...I meant to touch on my knee in my reply...Like your shoulder, it was truly injured several different times! The most recent injury was last June, and it was a bad one...At the same time I also sprained my ankle on the other leg so I was completely layed up...And, of course, the neck TMS flared as well...(my neck has been injured a few times too, but that should have healed years ago...) In any case, I fell right onto my knee on the cement curb! It blew up like a balloon..This happened walking into a gallery in Palo Alta, Ca. and tripping on a rock! Thankfully, I have been avoiding surgery from the various injuries to it..But the muscles in my quads and hamstrings never came back fully...So working out is essential to me and when the TMS stops me from doing so, I become very frustrated!
My point is that I believe my knee has fully recovered from all the previous injuries...So...when it acts up now, it is truly TMS and nothing more! It took me awhile to come to this because my mind kept saying "Yeah, but the muscles are not as strong as they once were, there is some atrophy, etc." However, I believe the body does adapt, even to that..and any lingering pain after an injury should have healed is nothing more then TMS symptom imperative! The brain finding a substitute location to wreak havoc..especially a place that was previously injured!
Hope this helps! :)) |
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allen_non
55 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2007 : 09:31:55
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Hey Karen,
Yep that does help. A lot of this stuff I know in my head (like, "TMS will do this or that"), but then when TMS acutally DOES what I already KNOW it will do, for some reason I get all surprised. Guess that's part of the glory of it all. Like seeing a driver about to pull into my lane & cut me off, knowing he'll very likely do it, then getting surprised and offended when he does what I knew he would do.
Seems like something as predictable as TMS would be more, well, predictable.
I watched about 60 minutes for the Brady video last night, and will watch the rest tonight. You're right, it's good, and right on target.
Well gotta run. Catch ya'll later.
Allen |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2007 : 10:31:08
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| Coolness...I am planning on watching the video again tonight, I got so much out of it! loved the visuals he uses..they really hit home..I know what you mean about the predictability of things! :)) |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2007 : 10:42:19
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I've got a shoulder problem too....In fact, I've had it for over 6 months now, which might be too long for TMS, given my usual response to TMS thinking
It started with some pain while playing golf, which I ignored...Then I got into this pushup thing...I felt some additional minor pain over the nedxt few weeks, but as is my habit, I ignored that as well...
Months went by...I'm an old guy in my mid-fifties now, and I was determined to reach certain pushup goals in an attempt to somehow recapture the glory days of my youth....Never a good idea by the way...I've always hated pushups....utterly mindless and boring, but I also used to be pretty good at them, and those of us with limited talents hate giving up the few things we're any good at...
Anyway, one night I went to bed with my shoulder basically in decent shape... full range of motion despite the minor twinges I'd been experiencing...The next morning my shoulder was just shot...gone...Not frozen, but very painful and very limited range of motion..
The good news is that it's probably 50 percent better after all these months...The trouble is, given where I started with this thing, 50 percent is still not very good...
My shoulder also feels better with use Allen...I do take this as a good sign as there can't be too large an endorphin response from a few dozen pushups...(Yes, it's true, I'm back to the pushups...)
But as long as things continue to improve, however slowly, I'm going to continue challenging it...I've taken that position with evry injury I've had over the last three years, and knocking on wood, still have no cause to regret that,, |
Edited by - art on 03/30/2007 10:44:20 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2007 : 11:49:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Singer_Artist
Oh my goodness, Allen...I am sorry that I forgot about us talking last year! Now I remember, of course! You were very helpful to me! That makes me feel even more guilty about your being ignored because of my crazy thread...Thank you for accepting my apology!
I started TDM and didn't finish it yet..I brought it to NYC with me but was busy learning songs for gigs there and never got back to it...should read it...
...I wanted so badly to go visit him when I was in NY but couldn't afford him at the time..He is very expensive [emphasis tt]
..Hopefully with these doors opening for me I can go see him in the future!
My memory is not soo good these days, no fooling...I think it might be hormonal, as embarassing as that is to admit..I am in my late 40's and that is a time of major hormonal shifts...I say all this because I have a memory that you and I wrote via regular email for awhile as well...Please refresh my bad memory if we did...I definitely remember writing you on here and how much you helped me!...
Hi Karen,
It sounds like you carry the world's burdens (and this web site's) on your shoulders, no wonder you often revert to a reactive mode. There are 1,070 members on this forum and 24,821 posts to date. I hope you don't feel emotionaly obligated to remember everyone and every post that you participated in--that would certainly give anyone a TMS overuse injury of the gray-matter.
Being in business, I may have contacts with hundreds of people a day, and no longer try to remember everyone's names. This burden was undoubtedly foisted on us by the business schools as some "networking imperative".
It seems that one of the greatest social sins we can commit today is NOT recalling someone's name--a sure-fire TMS pressure. I'm much less concerned with wasting brain cells with rote data, that can be stored in a PDA, than with keeping my brain available for conepts or good stuff.
I personally don't make any attempt at it anymore and just call everyone "dear", "kiddo", "partner", "amigo", or something like that. I have many acquaintances but try to keep my friends to a minimum. I do try to make a point of remembering my girlfriend's name, messing that one up can get you in trouble.
Those who appear annoyed with me for getting their names wrong I try to avoid. One lady I called "dear" recently reminded me of her true name with some annoyance so I no longer call her for doubles with some good players. There's the Judy's who want to be Judith's and the Caroline's who want to be Carolyn's. I like the ones who say "call me anything, just call".
I recall at my mother's funeral, my brother misspoke his new wife's name for his ex's, which didn't go over well. I said to myself this does not forbode well for the future and have been proven right. If you can't get some slack at your own mother's funeral from your loved one, there's a problem there.
Anyone who gets pushed out of shape about such trivial human foibles--shouldn't--and are best to be avoided. (Karen don't misconsrue this that I'm talking about you, I'm not, I'm just off on little tangent here).
Now back to you Karen, how much is your mindbody health worth? How much has it cost you in medical bills, etc., etc., etc., $$$$'$ so far? The Good Doctor charges about a grand ($1000) for the TMS package I believe--the biggest health bargain on the planet! A box of hospital size Q-tips cost that much. What has your TMS cost you in $$$$'$ and quality of life? ROB A BANK!, or find a sugar-daddy.
some of my favorite excerpts from 'TDM' : http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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Edited by - tennis tom on 03/30/2007 12:06:16 |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2007 : 12:08:50
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I hear ya, Tom and what you said makes alot of sense...I really do take on the burdens of the world sometimes...I hate to offend anyone, really I do...And part of my increase in symptoms lately has to do with worrying about several very close people in my life who are suffering greatly..both physically and financially...It's a tough time, but good things are happening too...
I should find some way to see Dr. Sarno next time I am in NYC..(which will hopefully be May or June)..I have spent a ton of my own (out of pocket) cash on medical expenses...That is why I am in debt, in fact..It is all for medical bills..ie..doctors, chiros, acupuncturists, massage therapists, Reiki healers and the like..Dr. Sarno is sure worth 1000 dollars!
Part of why I didn't see him recently was because I truly was overwhelmed (in a good way) learning a ton of vocal and keyboard parts for several different bands I was gigging with in NYC...It took most of my time, along with seeing family/friends that I hadn't seen for 3 years and then there was the holidays...The 4 months went by in a flash!
I am praying that this magazine and airline exposure will open some serious doors for me, I have a feeling it will...There is a sort of buzz happening already..I have only had an actual website for a few months and I still have to figure out how to get it up in the search engines on google, etc...
Honestly, I abhor sales and marketing...I just want to paint and sing, period! So hopefully, somebody in first class this June will see the article on me and be some big time art agent/manager/museum curator, etc...Then I will surely be able to afford to see Dr. Sarno and won't have any need for a sugar daddy, lol! It will happen, somehow, someway..
And after I see him, I promise to share all about it on here in the hopes of helping others! This really is a wonderful forum and I am so happy to be a part of it! Thanx for this post, Tom..:)
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2007 : 12:14:21
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I have many acquaintances but try to keep my friends to a minimum.
Is there a waiting list?....WHich is harder, getting accepted by TT as a friend, or making it into Harvard?
Kidding aside, I agree with you. People are sooooo invested in their names, it's ridiculous sometimes...Although at the risk of incurring forum-wide wrath, my experience has been that the real sticklers tend to me women...Guys seem not to care so much (generally speaking, in my opinion, in my experience...and any other politically palatable qualifiers that might help me escape a lynching..)...
To make matters worse, I'm terrible with names...I'm your classic introvert amongst strangers, my attention much more likely to be on my own inner discomfort than anything anyone is saying to me..BUt unlike TT, I steer clear of those sorts of generic nicknames...I don't blame women for not liking "dear" "sweety" "beautiful" and all the rest, and as a guy I can tell you I can't stand being called "chief" "ace" "boss" "partner" etc etc etc...Course, delivery is part of it...a genuinely friendly "partner" or "amigo" isn't bad...
I find the best thing is simply to ask, as in, I'm sorry, my memory for names is just terrible....I recall you quite well and enjoyed the conversation we had, but please forgive me...What's your name again/"
Of course, then I promptly forget again.. Just one more reason not to go out at night.. |
Edited by - art on 03/30/2007 12:17:44 |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2007 : 12:24:19
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I took a really fascinating course once called "The Silva Method.." It is about expanding one's own mind and memory...Jose Silva was the founder of this program..I graduated from it 20 years ago and have taken it several times since..Once you are a graduate, you can take it again for free...It's been awhile and clearly I need some help in the memory department again, lol!
As for remembering names I am terrible at it with acquaintences, but great at it with friends...A good little trick is to concentrate on what they are saying when they initially tell you there name and then associate that name with something in your life or someone with a visual picture...Works for me, sometimes anyway...
As for being called dear, sweetie, etc...I am a woman who doesn't mind that at all...But then again, I am an unusual woman who has more male friends then female friends, it's been that way since I was a little girl...Probably being a singer/musician in bands my whole life, mostly with men, contributed to that tendency too...:) |
Edited by - Singer_Artist on 03/30/2007 12:53:20 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2007 : 13:26:41
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quote:
Originally posted by art
quote:
I have many acquaintances but try to keep my friends to a minimum.
WHich is harder, getting accepted by TT as a friend, or making it into Harvard?
The former is harder, you'll learn more by hanging out with me. I know a lot of Harvard BS's that are bs'ers and even accomplished the near impossible of bankruping non-profits. Also gotten some really bad stock tips from them that went straight to Q.
...Although at the risk of incurring forum-wide wrath, my experience has been that the real sticklers tend to me women...Guys seem not to care so much (generally speaking, in my opinion,...
Agreed, except for metro-men.
...I don't blame women for not liking "dear" "sweety" "beautiful"
The one's worth keeping don't care.
...as a guy I can tell you I can't stand being called "chief" "ace" "boss" "partner"...
I like "boss".
...Course, delivery is part of it...
Delievery is all of it.
Cheers,tt
some of my favorite excerpts from 'TDM' : http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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Trouble-shooting some shoulder pain- I'm baack....
