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allen_non
55 Posts |
 Posted - 07/24/2006 : 08:58:56
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Hi Everyone,
I have had TMS pain in my low back for many years. Now thanks to Dr. Sarno & Fred Amir, I've been able to reduce my back pain from 7 (scale of 1-10, 10 being worst pain) down to a 1-2. Very Happy!
Recently, I started having pain in my left elbow with symptoms consistent with "Golfer's Elbow" tendonitis. I looked back in my trusty "Mind-Body Connection" book, and sure enough, elbow tendonitis is listed there as a manifestation of TMS. My physical activities prior to this elbow symptom were doing lots of pull-ups and grip work, both of which utilize the forearm flexors and are well accepted (in other venues) contributors to this condition.
You'd think I would have learned by now, given my improvement with my low back, but I'm having trouble making myself think of this "tendonitis" as being psychological. Medical information resources state that if I do all the "right things" now (Ice, rest, stretching, etc), I can shorten the duration of this. I want to attribute this to TMS so that (1)I can continue working out, and (2)so I will have a "handle" on it in case the pain later moves somewhere else.
I'd like to think of this as me making progress in my overall TMS, getting the pain to be "on the run". But, I am also a mechanical engineer, so I trend toward physical "cause & effect" scenarios.
Can anyone who has knowledge or had similar pain/ location give me their experiences in addressing this? I have thick skin and am asking for your help, so feel free to blast away if that's what it takes to get me in the correct mindset.
Trying to "Keep the faith"
Thanks,
Allen |
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flyefisher
48 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 11:14:26
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Well you know Sarno advises you always get it checked out for physical problems.
If the symptoms don't make sense and you have a history with this, it's a good bet your TMS is back. Just try to think of what may be stressing you. |
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wolf29
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 11:24:09
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My pain is on the move recently. I've battled lower back pain for over 3 years and I feel I've finally gotten that under control in ther recent weeks. No sooner does my back pain leave me that I start getting wrist pain. Which I've never had before.
So I continue to lift my weights even with the wrist pain and that has lessened over the last few days. TMS symptoms will move, but don't always have to so if you have doubts get it checked out by a regular doctor.
Chances are though, you will get the usual recommendation of inactivity for 2 weeks, anti-inflamatories and careful how you do things from here on out  Whether you follow that advice would be up to you, but if you truly feel it's TMS, then challenge the pain by not letting it stop you from doing what you like.
Good luck
Jay |
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allen_non
55 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 11:45:59
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Thanks Fly & Wolf,
Yeah, I'm really hesitant to go to the Dr, because in the past I've usually gotten the run of the mill, "safe" recommendations.
There are some exercises which (in the case of golfer's elbow) work the muscles opposite the gripping muscles to restore balance between the muscle groups. This is as simple as putting a rubber band around the finger tips & spreading the fingers to stretch the band. Also a friend in the sport I train in (Russian Kettlebells) recommended emu oil as good for inflamation and soothing.
I think both modalities are positive in their own respects. However, if I'm considering using them solely as "treatments" for a condition which is really caused by TMS, then I fear that even a "good thing" would be counter-productive to fixing the elbow issue. Would having the emu oil (or similar) as a post-workout "soother" be contrary to the proper TMS approach? I want to kill any pain as quickly as possible so as to avoid conditioning certain exercises to the pain.
Am I basically on the right path here?
I plan to do my regular workout this afternoon.
Thanks,
Allen |
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wolf29
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 11:52:27
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Russian Kettlebells, very nice 
The only problem I see with the oil is if in your mind your using it as a treatment to a physical problem that might be TMS. As in Sarno's books, stretching for example is good in itself and I do it after my workouts, but if one uses it for the treatment of back pain as I was doing, then it becomes something totally different and puts you back in the physical realm. Hope that makes sense.
Jay |
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allen_non
55 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 12:43:39
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Yep. That does make sense. I was remembering another point (that I think Dr. Sarno made) being that if someone was having an acute attack, it was ok to take a pain killer to get thru the crisis. But, you make a good point, that anything that makes the mind think you are "caving" to it's tactics is probably not good.
It's funny about kettlebells- They look like they would be murder on the low back, but I have 2 friends that had low back pain for several years that I started on KB's and within 6 weeks they each remarked how much better their backs felt. I think just starting back on an exercise program was part of it. But I also think that them doing something which really works all those postural muscles, using a moderately heavy weight, gave them confidence that their backs were really ok. This was before I even learned about TMS.
One of my worst back episodes ever happened about a week AFTER a competition. I trained like crazy for 3 months, had a great finish at the meet, and one week later thought a bomb had gone off in my back. This was after taking that week off from training! There was nothing I could have done to injure myself.
But, that was what finally clued me into the notion that LBP was not as physical as I would have thought.
Now, I'm still doing KB's and haven't been to a chiro in over 6 months!
Allen |
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wolf29
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 13:16:37
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I can't tell you how many times I started and stopped doing certain exercises due to fear of doing further damage. Plus the fact I was told by my doctors that I shouldn't because of spine compression and all that good stuff
I've finally gotten back to those exercises and last week deadlifted for the first time in a while. I just feel my attitude was different this time and I bought more into the TMS diagnosis. Now I hope to strengthen my back with the very exercises I'm not supposed to do. I have to keep telling myself that everything is fine.. especially when the weight starts getting heavier  |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 13:42:43
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| That sounds great Jay...Very inspiring..I am walking 40 minutes in the morning now...I have to talk to myself the whole time...or the neck, knee or even back will start... |
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wolf29
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 13:55:14
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Yeah, I talk to myself all the time. Good thing I workout alone at home. Definitely can't hurt to tell your brain that the tricks it plays won't work any more. It's a matter of re-training your subconscious mind from everything you've been told, read or heard about physical restrictions.
For the last few days I've been able to sit pain free which was a big struggle just a few weeks ago. Sitting has always been a big roadblock for me. I'm even slouching as I write this. Oh no |
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allen_non
55 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 14:31:52
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Well, just got home and getting ready to go test this elbow thing out. It's feeling a lot better since this morning. Wolf, I had to give up deadlifts for awhile out of fear before Sarno as well. Now I'm back doing them again, with even more weight, and less fear of tweaking my back.
I read an older post (from 2005 I think) that these secondary pain onsets (after an initial victory) is just the TMS fighting back. Nothing gets my bristles up more than something that I'm trying to get rid of trying to fight me back to keep bugging me. (as the scorched yellow jacket nest sites in my back yard will attest to!)
I have a nasty kettlebell workout awaiting me, TMS beware!
Allen |
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wolf29
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 14:45:03
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quote:
Originally posted by allen_non
I have a nasty kettlebell workout awaiting me, TMS beware!
Sweet! Give it hell!!! |
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allen_non
55 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 17:08:49
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Hey Wolf!
Made it thru, elbow did fine! Was a little sore at the beginning, a tiny bit LESS sore afterwards. That's after clean & pressing 32 kg for 24 reps each side alternated with pullups, then swinging the 32kg bell for 164 reps (82 left/ 82 right) in 6 minutes. That was significant since I have to use the gripping muscles & tendons which are typically involved in the golfers elbow. If anything should have caused a flare up, today's workout should have.
By the way, if you're into deadlifting & military pressing for brute strength, there is a great book called "Power to the People" by a Russian former spec-ops trainer named Pavel Tsatsouline. You can find it on his website "dragondoor.com" or Amazon.com. I have friends who have gotten crazy strong on that program, without bulking up. Pavel also has a lot of kettlebell information if you have an interest in that. I've done all kinds of workouts, from being in the military, to weight training, bodyweight workouts, and so on, and for overall health & killer strength & conditioning, KB's rock.
Plus there is the confidence building that my back must be fine considering the hellacious work I put it thru.
Today's score:
Allen: 2 TMS: 0
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wolf29
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 09:13:35
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Nice workout. I'll be deadlifting tomorrow. What a mind game we play with ourselves. Let me explain... I have deadlifted already with no pain so I felt I was well on my way. Last night just lifting some furniture up off the floor I felt a twinge and did start thinking in the physical realm. That of course led me to wonder how deadlifting tomorrow will go. I obviously have to keep working on the mind games I play on myself and I've already proven I can lift heavy with no pain. Frustrating.
Anyhow, I visited dragondoor.com several times. Good articles on there. I'll look into the book you suggested.
Thanks
Jay |
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allen_non
55 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 09:54:15
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It definitely seems to be a TMS personality trait that we "think ourselves into trouble". I tend to be my own worst enemy in that regard. Then any little pain that you happen to think about even a little bit can turn into a major deal. One of my friends who turned me onto Sarno put it into perspective for me. He said "if I bang my shin and it hurts, I rub it, it feels bruised for a few days, then it's over. If I tweak my back and it hurts the same amount, I'm afraid that I'm crippled for life".
My own experience is that dwelling on pain, even someone else's pain, can have powerful effects on my own body. When I was in junior high, I read a book on Joe Namath, former NY Jets QB. He had major knee injuries, recovered, injured again, rehab, pain, you name it. I read this book at my desk for about an hour, then it was time to go to my next class. I got up from my desk and had major stiffness, shooting pains, and could barely walk! INCREDIBLE! I had never had a knee problem in my LIFE (I was probably 14), yet here I was nearly incapacitated from reading a book for an hour.
I have to be careful on this forum as well, because some of the manifestations of TMS described here, I don't want my brain to go "hey, THERE's one I haven't tried yet!"
I'm like you in that I can lift a pretty high amount of weight on a bar or kettlebell, but to carry a large cooler full of ice intimidates me at first, even though it probably doesn't even weigh 35 lbs.
It's too bad we can use all this negative brain power for some good purpose instead of aggravating ourselves.
Let me know if you have any questions on the kettlebells or Power to People programs. I can give you my email address if you don't want to tie up a thread here.
Have a good one!
Allen |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 10:02:49
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What's a KETTLEBELL?
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 10:25:37
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Yes Allen,
The power of our minds to do both good and bad to ourselves and to others is astonishing! I believe, on one level, that EVERYTHING...literally EVERYTHING is MIND...I believe that it is possible that we create our realities with our thoughts/emotions down to the finest details...(w/ the exception of someone having a fatal disease they were born with)...Maybe I sound a little New Age Foo Foo saying this...especially for a Christian woman..But I have seen it work in my own life, just as you have...FAITH really is everything...We can think/emote ourselves well or think/emote ourselves very sick...Jesus said "Greater things shall ye do.." We have yet to even begin to tap into the power we have in between our very ears...
~Karen |
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wolf29
USA
108 Posts |
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wolf29
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 11:21:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Singer_Artist
We can think/emote ourselves well or think/emote ourselves very sick... We have yet to even begin to tap into the power we have in between our very ears...
I tend to agree with both statements. I think information/knowledge it great but too much of a certain subject can have negative affects on a person in my opinion. For example, I feel that all the information at our finger tips on disease can cause some people to develop those diseases because it's on their mind so much. Yes, much of it is hereditary but if the mind can heal, I'm sure the mind can cause severe illnesses.
Many of us being the worriers we are, have to be careful of what we absorb from all the information around us. As Allen said, you don't want others people's pain rubbing off on you. For example, I'm 43 and consider myself in very good shape but people around me my age are having a lot of ailments, heart attacks and so on. Being the obsessive personality I can be, I start thinking how I am of that age where things can go wrong. That is not healthy thinking and can lead to issues that would not normally arise if I just went about my business.
So learn from all the information that is out there, but don't take it all to heart... or should I say brain |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
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allen_non
55 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 12:33:50
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Karen,
You are absolutely right. I'm a Believer (in Christ) also, and there is a verse (can't put my finger on it just now) that states to the effect "as a man thinketh, so is he". So, if I think I'm a "loser", I will begin to act like a loser, make decisions like a loser, and even if I had the makings of a winner, I'd still become a loser. I think a lot of TMS symptoms are the result of a self-fulfilling prophesy snowball. A little tweak gets the mind paying more attention to the discomfort, considering "what might be wrong with me", that leads to increased focus, and a vicious cycle kicks in. Then conditioning to expect the pain with certain movements or situations takes over, and then it's a real knot to untangle. That can happen even if one is emotionally ok.
TT,
A kettlebell is a training tool back from old, old Russia. The Soviet Army uses them to this day as a prime training & conditioning tool. It looks like a cannon ball with a handle, and you can swing it around your body, throw it, press it, all kinds of stuff. They're great for building real world strength (I used to bench press, but never saw how it would help me get my car out of a ditch, take a box out of my car trunk, or carry an injured buddy out of a dangerous situation). I have a friend who is a chiro (and also has a "bad back". go figure!). He watches me do my drills & says it kills him to watch me do what I do. That is just another confirmation that my back must actually be ok.
Wolf,
I'm 44, so I am right there with you. I bust my tail to stay in shape, while watching those around me (many 10 or more years my junior) turn into marshmellows. Then they say my aches & pains are just a part of growing older. That's a load of fertilizer! Since discovering Sarno (and later, Fred Amir) back in November of 05, I've cut my LBP down to maybe 20% of what it was. My mobility is better, I have less fear on deadlifts or KB swings, etc, and my expectation is to continue to improve, since doctors who have a view of the sun (which means their heads are not in another place) all say that vigorous exercise is good for you. Everyone has to start somewhere, so I never criticize some one who is just walking for exercise. It takes courage to get off the duff and start doing something positive. It's those who just complain & complain & never do anything about it that get on my last good nerve.
Yikes, I'm turning into an internet preacher! Sorry 'bout that!
Allen |
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Singer_Artist
USA
1516 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 13:16:08
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| You got it Jay, that is the trick...Learn from it but don't take it on...It's hard enough for us to each deal with whatever form of TMS we already have on our plates! We have to work hard to not take on even more new symptoms...The others our age who aren't as healthy are probably not the health nuts and exercise nuts that we are..We humans have sooooo much control over the state of our physical health...It is just a matter of realizing this and taking action... |
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Need a confidence boost
