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Suz
559 Posts |
 Posted - 08/24/2004 : 08:11:05
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I am still in the middle of this bizarre flare up. I actually walked to work this morning even though my sciatica was awful. I am trying to think psychologically and ignore the pain but I find it hard just to conjure up emotional problems on the spot! It seems so fake that it makes me focus on the problem more!
I have actually found it more effective to just ignore the whole thing and get on with whatever I am doing. This seems to reduce the pain a little.
Does anyone have any other tips? I only have time to journal in the evening and cannot be staring at my emotional problems all day! |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 08:53:30
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quote:
I have actually found it more effective to just ignore the whole thing and get on with whatever I am doing.
Yes! |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 11:49:39
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| I keep a list of painful emotional experiences - most of them relating to my childhood. They are written down but at this point I also have the list in my head. I have a real life visual image (or series of images) associated with each painful experience. I just pick from the mental list and "turn on" the visual image in my brain. I hit all the painful experiences on the list and try to feel all the anger and sadness and fear associated with these experiences. I do this for a few minutes as I go about my daily activities. If it doesn't work after about 4 or 5 minutes, I return to the list maybe an hour later. I also do the ignore-the-pain thing and continue with all necessary and desired daily activities as well as talking to my brain about how ridiculous the charade is and tell myself that I'm not going to put up with it. I also search for whatever is currently angering me.....For example, this morning I bent over in the driveway to pick up the newspaper. I lingered in the bent over position longer than usual because I decided to also pick up a piece of trash next to the paper -- a piece of dang styrofoam (the peanut packing stuff) -- which came apart as I grabbed it -- which necessitated even more time bent over in order to pick all the little bitty pieces up. I was angry at whatever neighbor it was who had been so careless with his/her packing material that he/she had dared to let it fall and drift over to my yard. I caught myself thinking --- "Oh no! This could trigger my sciatica." So, of course, immediately my right leg and foot went into serious pain and my buttocks locked into muscle spasms. I took anti-TMS action. I picked psychologically negative scenes from the past to visualize as I went back into the house and started my 45 minute exercise routine. (I kept this up for about 4 to 5 minutes.) I told myself how silly this was and how tricky and clever my brain was to grab onto such an opportunity to distract me. I ignored the pain as best possible and told myself the duration of pain would be short.....The bottom line was that my sciatic pain disappeared in about 10 minutes whereas a year ago, pre-serious implementation of Sarno's concepts, the pain would have lasted several hours to several days and I would have been extremely fearful for most of the duration (thinking about what nerves I had irritated and other counter-productive, absurd physical stuff) rather than feeling relaxed about it like I was this morning. |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 11:59:15
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Thank you so much, Fox. Your post is so helpful with the detailed layout.
Questions:
Did you create this list with a psychologist or yourself?
When you say visual image - do you mean you picture the situation itself?
It sounds like you are incredibly in touch with your childhood issues. I must admit that it seems easier to conjure up childhood problems for me than anything else.
My sciatica pain has now left me after I got stuck into work and focused on something else. I find the "ignore" tactic very good. I also decided to do something physical in defiance of it.
Wow - this TMS monster is very sneaky! |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 12:18:19
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| I developed the list on my own. Much of the material came to me during my daily walks with my dog from 5:30am to 6:15am. It's quiet in my neighborhood at that time so it's easy to think. Also, it's shortly after awakening so I can try to pull material in from my dreams. Some of the material has come after discussions with my parents, who are both now in their 80's, about our family life when I was a child.....Yes, I do picture the situation itself -- in color and in great detail --- like it was a movie. |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 12:35:18
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so it sounds like you are pretty much pain free or at least the episodes are short lived. When did you first embrace Sarno's ideas?
I was so thrilled after reading Sarno's book and being out of pain within 24 hours that I thought I was "cured". I really didn't do much of the journaling. I realize now that the TMS just went to an equivalent. Now I am really journalling and practicing the principles - I am finding the pain moving around a lot. I think that might be a good sign. Did you experiece this?
sorry for all the questions - this is so wonderfully helpful. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 12:57:35
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| I am not pain free by any means. I would say that I am 70% better physically and a whole lot better off psychologically because of the decrease in fear and obsession on things in the physical realm. In my opinion, this is tremendous progress. I have fewer episodes, longer periods of little or no pain, and like you wrote, my episodes are short-lived. My sciatica began 20 years ago. I read Sarno's first book during the first year of pain, but I didn't "believe" in it enough to stop thinking about physical causes, to stop seeing doctors, to stop doing back stretches, to really start challenging my conditioned fears of certain activities, to try to re-experience my past anger and sadness, to really feel my current anger and sadness, and to force myself to "think psychologically" when I felt pain....It helped when I saw a TMS doctor in Pennsylvania about 3 years ago and he gave me the TMS diagnosis. (He's no longer on the TMS doctor list.) Then I started re-reading (over and over) the 3 Sarno books, read Fred Amir, read other books mentioned on this forum, got the Sarno audio tape and the video tape, and started putting a lot time and thought into anti-TMS work. This time it worked. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 13:35:29
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| Suz - I neglected to answer your question about the pain moving around. Yes, the pain does come to different parts of my left leg at different times. I never have gotten pain in the right leg, however. I also have problems with other TMS equivalents that substitute sometimes for the leg pain -- headaches, dizziness, tinnitus, acid reflux, tingling in the hands, and face pain that mimmicks a sinus infection. I can get rid of all of them using anti-TMS work after a short while except for the acid reflux --- I must use OTC and Rx meds for that. But I think that the acid reflux must be TMS because it usually happens when I am angry or fearful. |
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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 14:22:52
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| Fox- I had all your equivalents, except acid reflux,and I also had some extras. Mine also left along with the pain as I practiced Sarno's methods. My first recollection of a pain free day was one in which I was too "busy" to think about the pain. I "felt" for the pain and realized I had none. I think that was a great reinforcement of Sarno's theory for me. I knew for sure that I was on the right track. When I get a little pain now, the first thing I do is try to think of what is bothering me. I tell the pain to get lost and that it has no future with me. The next thing I do is try and get busy. It has really worked for me so far. |
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JayP
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 14:23:02
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All,
I've been journaling for 2 months now and have found it extremely helpful. In fact, I just came up with an idea and added 4 charts to my journal that breaks down "The 10 Top Things" that I'm: Angry/Mad About, Afraid About, Sad/Disappointed About, and what I'm Happy About. Each chart has a What, Why and How to Change It/Deal With It column. After all the psychological work I've been doing, it's easy to fill it in. The charts help "memorialize" what I've learned about myself over the past 2 months. I think I've discovered that anger and rage aren't the only emotions that we suppress/repress. Fear is a huge emotional issue and one we don't like to admit to ourselves or anyone else. I found that my Fear Chart was the first chart I made and the first one I filled in within a few minutes. While I haven't completed all the Why's or How to Change It/Deal With It columns, I'm finding this exercise extremely helpful. Perhaps once I'm finished I'll be able to pull my "Top 10" when I have a physical attack like Fox did.
JayP |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 14:37:30
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Thank you Fox for all this valuable info.
I also have suffered from TMS equivalents - heartburn, one tension headache (really awful), stomach/digestive issues, acne breakouts and hives. Since the back pain came back (in totally new location) last week, my skin has cleared and I have no hearburn or stomach problems.
This is quite incredible.
I am sure the acid reflux is the same. It might be interesting to work on being really convinced of that and discontinuing the meds - taking them might be feeding into the TMS and thereby not stopping the cycle.
I have pretty much stopped taking nexium as I know the heartburn is psychological - my gastro specialist told me it was stress related as is my IBS. That is as far as they go and then of course he just told me to reduce the stress. For most people this is not easy to do as everyone has a level of stress in life - I guess this weak kind of "cure" keeps these doctors in business or may just be that they don't know what to do. |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 14:44:59
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Susie,
How amazing that you don't have the equivalents. May I ask what any of them were if you don't mind sharing?
I would be so thrilled to really see mine disappear for good. I am convinced that my rosacea is another equivalent. I have already seen an improvement in my skin but I still have problems.
Jay,
You sound like you are a master at journalling! I think that fear and sadness are huge ones. When I had my episode last week seeing my ex sister in laws again - I know I am not angry at them in any way but I am very sad as I love and miss them terribly. The pain of seeing them was agonizing and really affected me. I had a terrible sciatic flare up after 4 months of no back pain. |
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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2004 : 16:24:39
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| Hey Suz- My worst equivalents were ibs and dizziness. The ibs was so bad at times, I was in bed with what I thought was the flu. I had a bad outbreak of hives before the back attack. Tingling and numbness in my right hand and arm, I dropped things all the time. Partial numbness on one side of my face. I looked normal but I could feel it. Horrible sinus trouble for a year. I took clarinex and a cortisone nasal spray every day. I just didn't put these symptoms together until I had the back attack and found Sarno. I guess that is why I found him so credible because he listed my symptoms and put an explanation with them. In treating my backpain, I accidentally treated my equivalents too. I can't tell you how much my quality of life has improved. Being able to expel the pain and other symptoms leaves me feeling very impowered. I must say,though, that it a constant work in progress but the symptoms grow weaker and I feel stronger. I almost feel that even though I wish I didn't have tms, it has given me a key to and a greater understanding of my own psychological makeup. I have become very introspective and understand much better why I feel the way I do. So in a way, tms is a kind of a gift. |
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Texasrunner
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 09:06:00
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"I was angry at whatever neighbor it was who had been so careless with his/her packing material that he/she had dared to let it fall and drift over to my yard."
Above is a quote from Fox. Read it again, and think about it. Here is a perfect example of narcissistic rage at work. And all over a piece of peanut styofoam that may have accidentally drifted out of a trash bin. "Dared to let it fall and drift over to my yard... Amazing!
Fox is not alone. I do this too, and so do many others. By internallizing such random, trivial events, and making them personal, we endlessly contribute to our internal rage. Sarno talks about an "internal reservoir of rage" that becomes full to overflowing. When it overflows, the unpleasant feelings manifest as physical pain.
So what's the answer? Be contiuously aware of your tendency towards narcissistic rage, and learn to realize how silly and unecessary it is, and how it contributes to your own internal reservoir. |
Edited by - Texasrunner on 08/26/2004 10:51:14 |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 10:25:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Texasrunner
So what's the answer? Be contiuously aware of your tendency towards narcissistic rage, and learn to realize how silly and unecessary it is, and how it contributes to your own internal reservoir.
Yes, that's a great point.
But, what happens if we stop ourselves from feeling this irrational rage? Does it get repressed and add to our resivoir? Might it be better to lock ourselves in a room and scream to ourselves and get it all out, silly and irrational as it may be?
Personally I am learning to recognize "worthless" thoughts and stop them; for example, reliving the past; worrying about something that might happen in the future even though it is out of our control. This is a cognitive-behavioral approach, but I think it is worthwhile.
However, I wonder, what happens to those thoughts when you short circuit them? Are we training ourselves to learn to live in the moment, and truly purge those "worthless" thoughts, so these thoughts will become fewer and far between? Or are we just fooling ourselves and repressing and adding to the rage?
I don't know the answer. I believe we need a balanced approach; recognize and banish the "bad" thoughts but at the same time embrace and accept the irrational feelings that might accompany them. |
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Texasrunner
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 10:49:39
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| I don't know. It's probably not a good idea to go too deep with the possible ramifications of the chain of thoughts. Maybe better to simply recognize how your everyday reactions to things, however small, invoke narcissistic rage. By doing so, you can step back from it or laugh it. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2004 : 14:04:35
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| I'm still mad about that dang styrofoam peanut! (Just kidding) |
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menvert
Australia
133 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2004 : 22:47:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave
quote:
Originally posted by Texasrunner
So what's the answer? Be contiuously aware of your tendency towards narcissistic rage, and learn to realize how silly and unecessary it is, and how it contributes to your own internal reservoir.
Yes, that's a great point.
But, what happens if we stop ourselves from feeling this irrational rage? Does it get repressed
Personally I am learning to recognize "worthless" thoughts and stop them;
However, I wonder, what happens to those thoughts when you short circuit them?
From what I understand, what we do with those 'negative' rage producing thoughts is not as important as simply realising that you have them and that they are there!
That they may trigger/contribute to our pain. as Sarno suggests changing our thought patterns is great but in many cases, we cannot. but if we recognise them(and if possible examining why), that is nearly as powerful as stopping that thought. Because we have 'understood the unconscious intellectually'
I guess I'm saying it's not as important dwelling on trying to stop out thoughts and thinking of them as bad or wrong...
as it is to recognise they exist and they are part of us. if we can change out thoughts that is great . but if we cannot , that's okay too. we will understand that they exist tho!(And explore why they exist, why are we really angry)...
So IMO you can still be angry about the peanut Styrofoam... but as soon as you recognise it contributes to your rage(the anger and not the bending over). it should no longer create pain , because you understand the rage...
But yes , I do have issues about 'stopping bad thoughts' becoming repression and creating further problems.. gentler is better for changing thought patterns in my opinion.. gently recognise your thought patterns and next time you can tell it is about to happen, you can do it differently... but no need to get angry at yourself for not succeeding this time..(Also be aware you may never be able to change it as it is too much part of your personality)
Not sure if it's relevant but some yoga teaching suggest experiencing anger being better than expressing it (one day I might figure out what it means)... |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2004 : 07:06:58
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quote:
From what I understand, what we do with those 'negative' rage producing thoughts is not as important as simply realising that you have them and that they are there!
Yes this is true, and it is sufficient for many people.
But some with TMS have more difficulty shaking the symptoms, myself included. I believe some people have simply grown up in such a way that they are not accustomed to feeling emotions. Repression is an unconscious habit. Some emotions get repressed before we even realize they are present; they are never conscious. Emotional defenses are ingrained in our personalities.
In order to get full relief, it may be necessary to undergo psychotherapy to attempt to bring those emotions to the surface, and to "learn" how to feel -- to experience emotions consciously before our automatic defenses have a chance to bury them. |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2004 : 10:12:04
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Like Dave, I have grown up repressing a lot of emotions. I am British and grew up learning to have a "stiff upper lip" and not show anything. I have always put on a tough exterior and had no idea how much I repressed. I am having one on one therapy once every two weeks and she has told me that I have a real fear of feeling uncomfortable emotions.
So now I am really noticing when I am angry or fearful. I am not sitting in it for long - but really feeling the emotions before I let them go. I mentioned this as a topic breakthrough that since I have been doing this (only a few days) my pain has almost gone now. The reduction in pain has been dramatic. It is very liberating. I am still doing the writing and reading.
I think the important thing is to recognize and try and feel the emotions. It is what Sarno calls "teaching the subconscious to send different messages to the muscles" - in other words, send the blood flow/oxygen back. If one is feeling the emotions, there is no reason any more for the mind to use the body - the avoidance/diversion strategy is no longer needed |
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menvert
Australia
133 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2004 : 17:39:10
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Actually right now I am in the process of trying to find a Psychologist/psychotherapist but because I live in Australia and not even in a capital city... I am unlikely to find one who actually understands TMS... any ideas, what I should try and ask for to find in a therapist otherwise? , so far, I am trying to find an analytical psychotherapist who has any knowledge of psychosomatic illness...
I know I have a lot of repressed emotions, some of which I am aware of and others I am obviously not aware of otherwise I would not have SO many TMS symptoms...
So yes, I would be great if I could bring them out from the darkness and recognise their existence :)
Actually, I had a flareup as I woke up this morning my newest area of pain decided to be several times more painful than when I went to bed.... finding this forum must be scaring my brain :) |
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How do you ignore the pain?
