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art
1903 Posts |
 Posted - 12/20/2005 : 18:41:11
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I'm not even sure I'm spelling it right, but that doesn't mean I don't know how to do it with the best of them. I'd not heard this term until recently but it instantly rang a bell..
For example, my girlfriend and I are headed for a trip to Florida from New England with our two dogs. In my mind, we've already run into a paralyzing snow storm, had many flat tires, been unable to find a motel, and have had many other various and sundry disasters befall, both great and small..
I always do this, and it's a complete and utter waste of time. Plus, it's unhealthy..
I'd love to hear from those who are prone to this....What are some good techniques? The good news is I',m better with this stuff than I used to be..At least now I know what it is that I'm doing and can make some attempts to bring it under control, but I've a long way to go...
Any help would be sincerely appreciated.. |
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Tunza
New Zealand
198 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 02:24:16
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Catastrophizing should be my middle name. I know exactly where you're coming from Art.
Have you read Taming Your Gremlin by Rick Carson?
Tunza
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 03:27:46
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Art,
I am the QUEEN of catastrophizing. I was diagnosed with this a few years ago by a therapist and I know it's right on the money.
When something goes a little wrong in my life, I start to worry about all the things it could possibly mean, what the implications are, what could I have done differently, what if x, y and z happens as a result? I got a suggestion from a thread on here to read Full Catastrophe Living and I also bought the 4 CD package of meditation disks that go along with it. I have been working the program for almost 7 weeks now and I have another week to go. The idea is to work on your breathing and stay "in the moment" of life. I am not sure yet how this is helping my catastrophizing but I think it's helping me be aware of breathing and the reading is pretty helpful. You may benefit from it, you may not, it's worth a try and was not expensive on Amazon. Happy Festivus Art. |
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lastlostmonkey
35 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 04:44:58
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Hi Art,
I used to do this more than I do now and for me it's linked with getting hung up and overstressed about things that are really unimportant, like dealing with mobile phone companies... Hmm. I have noticed a decline in these things since starting to do yoga seriously and starting to meditate. I think perhaps meditation is the thing here - it gets me out of the repetitive cycle that my brain gets stuck in. I like this website: http://www.wildmind.org/ It has a Buddhist bent which may put you off, but there are good instructions so you can just start. I think the Mindfulness of Breathing one is useful.
Another thing I used to do was use a psychotherapy intervention for panic attacks. I don't remember it well, but it involved rationalising the response, which is basically a fear response. So you think 'I have these emotions and fears of catastrophe, what is the exact thought that precipitated them?' once you have figured out what you thought just before you started to get into the cycle of 'catastrophising' you rationalise that thought, so perhaps it was something about having previously been stuck in a snowstorm and you think, well, these were the circumstances, these are the precautions etc. and work through it to take out the fear. After a while you learn which thoughts are panicky trigger thoughts and you rationalise them before they develop that far. Perhaps this isn't quite what you're talking about but I found it works for a lot of these boring but emotional cycles. You want to get out of it because it's so tedious but it's like a broken record you can't switch off.
Ta,
last lost |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 05:40:34
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Hi Art.
Well that sounds like the sequences of events that goes on when I'm involved in an OCD event,and that is a TMS equivalent.When I was diagnosed with OCD my psychotherapist said that they were beginning to distinguish 2 distinct patterns...one in which the person has had it for as long as they can remember (me)
..and in the other cases,people 'coming down' with some of the external symptoms later in life..Mostly circular thinking,checking and rechecking..expecting the worst,Macabre thoughts intruding on an otherwise normal person,etc.
The way you've descibed this sounds like a portion of the deal(correct me if I'm wrong)
Funny...the therapeutic take on OCD is much like Sarno's take on TMS...
Generally,an idea will begin the skipping record deal in your brain and keep playing over and over and over...worst case scenario.
When you find yourself absorbed into the cycle, say the word "Stop" firmly and clearly and go to an entirely unrelated activity.If the thought goes there with you,once again say 'Stop' and move to another totally unrelated activity.Obviously it is tougher to do if you are at work....mainly because you're not supposed to keep walking away from your work.I used it as often as I could at home.It was tough,because unlike pain,it was a lot harder to discern.
They ran this test, at UCLA I believe.People involved in an OCD event are having a sort of electrical storm in a portion of the brain that is just supposed to have the lights on.It allegedly is detectable by a brain scan.In a control group study ,they found that people who used the above therapeutic technique were equally as effective at normalizing that 'storm' as another control group which was administered Prozac.
My shrink offered me either option.I tried doing the 'stop' thing...it seemed to be exactly the same sort of thing that banishes TMS...devalues the 'process' which is going on inside the person because of a deeper underlying anxiety/anger...I just look at it as TMS of the Brain.It sounds stupid,I know,but was fairly effective at neutralizing the record skipping
Now...sometimes I have a hard time distinguishing responsible adult concern and OCD....I become sure it's OCDTMS-like when I become aware that it is occupying waaaaaay too much of my brain space
-just a thought
-piggy
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 05:43:32
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..one mo thang
The logic behind the stop therapy is: If a thought chain is a 'record' and it keeps skipping,rather than letting it keep getting to the same 'spot'...SCRATCH the Fk out of it and it won't be able to play at all.
I know,I know...it sounds like NLP..but it did help. |
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Michele
249 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 10:07:39
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Yes, my therapist says I do it too and most of the time I'm not even aware of it. She suggested The Power of Now, which I checked out on CD but had a hard time concentrating when I was driving.  I need to find the book and really dig into it. She said it is her all-time favorite book.
The power IS now, and nothing else. It's such an easy concept, but one that takes time to wrap yourself around. I'm trying. |
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jilly_girl
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 13:37:08
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well todays society certainly encourages catastophozi..er, however you spell it lol. on the evening news last night, they featured a local emergency room doc stating the horrible statistics of how many people have heart attacks on Christmas and ignore the symptoms because they dont want to ruin the holiday, how you should be very careful to have your meds with you when you travel for the holidays, how you should check out the medical facilites before you go etc...my God, no wonder we are stressed.
BASEBALL, i also have ocd (under control). i wonder how many people with TMS have ocd too.
Jill |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 15:54:25
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@jilly girl...Well,I'd imagine quite a few.They're really serving the same purpose (to distract ones self from the realm of the emotions).
I have had it for as long as I can remember.I went through the "God is mad at me and I'm going to hell" phase around age 5 or so,went through the hANDwashing until they bleed thing around age 8,at age 10 I used to sit for about a half hour every night before bed and try to poke things in my eye socket to make absolutely sure my eyes weren't going to fall out in my sleep...and around age 12 I got involved with drugs and that kept me pretty well focused for about a decade.(LOL)
After sobering up was when it really got bad ...until the pain came.Than I didn't need it anymore.Nowadays I don't need any of them,...I didn't know what OCD even was until I was 30 and heard about it on a talk show.
As far as TV...I never,ever watch it.People think we're poor because we don't have cable(I do have rabbit ears for tornado warnings and what not)...I read Jerry Manders "In the absence of the sacred" and have never ever wanted to subject myself to that barrage of mind control again..not from the shows...from the advertisers.
-piggy
-=
The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up. |
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yowire
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 19:53:18
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Hi Art,
I also do the same kind of catastrophic worst case scenario thinking. I believe Baseball65 is right on target in describing this as a TMS equivalent. I have been pretty much able to stop this in its tracks just by using the standard TMS techniques. When I recognize it starting, I ask myself "OK, what is the deeper emotion behind this?" Then I search for it and this seems to stop the catastrophizing.
From Baseball65
quote:
at age 10 I used to sit for about a half hour every night before bed and try to poke things in my eye socket to make absolutely sure my eyes weren't going to fall out in my sleep...
Wow! Thats a good one. I used to worry that my testicles would go up into my body. I think I heard somewhere that this could happen. So I was really careful about that.
Yowire |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 19:54:39
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quote:
one in which the person has had it for as long as they can remember (me)
..and in the other cases,people 'coming down' with some of the external symptoms later in life..Mostly circular thinking,checking and rechecking..expecting the worst,Macabre thoughts intruding on an otherwise normal person,etc.
Oh yah. I've both had this ever since I can remember (when I was a little kid I used to have to say a certain amount of prayers every night, or something bad would befall me..The really hard thing was that with each passing day I would feel compelled to add one more prayer, so that after a month say, I'd be up for hours..I finally beat it by developing a kind of shorthand whereby one prayer equalled five...then ten, and so on.
It went away for many years and then came back with a vengeance when I quit taking drugs and drinking..
I almost died a couple fo years ago when I went on a three week water fast and began to have panic attacks...I got into this viciously unbreakable cycle of worrying about what the impact of these panic attacks would be on my poor depleted, starving body, which of course just led to more panic attacks...it was quite a mess to say the least, and as I said, I damn near died..I still have the lingering effects of that..
You guys have been great///I appreciate all the identification as well as the concrete suggestions...The thing that has worked the best for me is to go to my breathing...I've also had some success with the "stop" strategem..
One thing I've learned, I can't think my way out of this...for every reassuring positive thought there is always an equal and opposite negative thought..It's sort of the obsessive compulsive's version of physics..I must totally disengage, either by breathing, or by baseball's stop method...I'm better than I used to be, but I guess the thing that really scares me is if something really does go wrong, the skids are so greased now in the direction of panic that it will be hard to fight..This tendency toward panic really began with the fast episode..up until then I've always been pretty good at beating anxiety and panic back...The encouraging thing is I'm getting slowly better...the capacity of the human mind and body to heal is truly miraculous.. |
Edited by - art on 12/21/2005 20:02:46 |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2005 : 21:13:13
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I heard the term here in this forum for the first time from...
My pain stays away until I start catastrophizing.
-- Maryalma8
...and term it just clicked with me so I put the line in my top 10 list...
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=79
Being a perfectionist (like so many) not only do I catastrophize, but I used work through all the possible solutions and backup plans until my head hurt.
I agree this has to be an OCD thing.
The retraining key here is to "let go" as soon as you catch yourself doing this.
Let Go.
Let Go.
As far as the TV goes, I got rid of cable TV 12 years ago and have never missed it. The funny part is I work for the company that builds all the gear that the cable companies use to send the video to your homes, so its kind of ironic that I build the technology but don't use it.
Take care, -Stryder |
Edited by - Stryder on 12/21/2005 21:31:33 |
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jilly_girl
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2005 : 06:29:34
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Baseball, i also have had it my entire life. The "God is mad at me and i'm going to hell" was my worst symptom. I was also a checker. Of course back then they had no idea what this was. My OCD flares up occasionally but is manageable. (it will always show itself when i go to a doctor, (did he understand me, did he really say i was ok, was the test misread etc) so i rarely go to docs. It makes me sicker lol. However the OCD was replaced by a good case of panic disorder with agorophobia. I am about to experience what my panic disorder will do without Xanax, as i am almost out of it. I took more than ususual the past month due to my Moms lingering illness and death. I am ready to be off the stuff anyway. This just isnt a really good time to try it but i have no choice since i'm about out  My panic disorder improved when i simply accepted it. "Ok if i pass out in wal mart i pass out!" Feeling faint was my main symptom.
Jill |
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electraglideman
USA
162 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2005 : 08:40:14
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CATASTROPHIZING!
I swear, I find out more crap thats been wrong with me every time I come to this forum. I never heard the word CATASTROPHIZING before but I've been through it.
This is the only place I know where I can go and get information like this.
Thanks to everyone,
Mike |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2005 : 10:05:25
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Jilly, just to check in with you, have you been on the xanax a long enough time to have become physically dependent on it? Even if you aren't sure, check with your doc as it's nothing to mess around with...
By the way, your post made me laugh beause I identified so strongly with it...I do the very same thing with doctor visits, employers...all very familiar...This stuff really is kind of comical it's so silly, and it's nice to be able to laugh at ourselves...
I got so tired of checking the burners on the stove, I've taken to just removing all the dials...That way I *know* nothings left on...(still have to check a couple of times though... |
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jilly_girl
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2005 : 14:21:17
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Hey Art...yes i've been on it a long time and am backing off slowly. I once found a site on OCD. I wish i could remember which one it was to give the proper credit, but one single sentence helped me tremendously. "Embrace the uncertainty". That was very freeing to me. "did i really check the stove? embrace the uncertainty. If the house burns, it burns"!!!!
Jill |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2005 : 16:26:15
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Yeah..@ Jilly do NOT just stop taking the xanax...it's worse than heroin to kick.It's not how MUCH but how much and how long you've been on it.
If you decide to quit altogether,there is a method called "The Ashton Protocol" which you can download for free online(searching always turns up 'pay' sites first...scroll further)...you switch to Valium which is not as strong and then decrease.Xanax ,klonopin etc. are some of the strongest benzo's made...don't let their 'mildness' catch you off guard.
See...their I go..catastrophizing (good word) again!!
...but seriously folks.
Yeah..I no longer look at OCD as an entity in itself...As the symptoms have been isolated,as per usual the pharmaceutical community has tried to 'chemical' it away.
Since I can't remember evr NOT having it,and there are soooo many people exactly like me,or who develop it later I can only conclude that it is a sort of TMS of the Mind muscle.
Here are some conclusions I've reached about it by self examination and talking to other OCDers.
First..you'll never ever make it go away by 'dealing' with the object of obsession.You can go and check the stove,make sure so and so isn't angry with you,quit masturbating,whatever...doing whatever(or Not doing) will not keep it away.It's exactly like the pain.If you pay any attention to it whatsoever,it's like putting logs on the fire...it'll only burn hotter and bigger.
They call it 'binding' the anxiety ,and it's just like the 'physicophobia' that Sarno speaks of....if you're fear of inducing an OCD incident is operable,it's just as good as the attack itself to fend off the emotions,because you are pre-occupied with external things.
Second..every single really bad episode has come at a period when I should have been feeling a lot of anxiety or emotion but did NOT...after my father died,after my son was born,after my Mom left,etc,etc.
DIG>>>DIG???????DIG DEEPER>>>>>>> Excavate the REAL reason.
...and one good tool I have found that works for breaking OCD as well as TMS 'outbreaks' is crying.All of us are conditioned like Lab rats.Their is a song,a book,an event in your life, a gravestone...something that can make you cry simply by being focused on it or seeing it.If I find myself involved with pain,ocd,whatever...I go get alone somewhere (which isn't always easy) and sink into that thing...I have a song.
It's sort of like a reconditioning...instead of falling for the 'trick',when I sense the early stages I just go 'there'.I have 15" arms,tatoos and look like a Biker.It's not always convenient....go to the bathroom,call in sick,whatever it takes....give it the time and you WILL beat it.
I did go through a phase after my Psych hooked me into what was really going on,where I went the other way...was almost negligent.I found it humorous that If I ignored the OCD my body would TRY something ridiculous...sneezing(I have no allergies) panic attack,pain in my pinky..whatever.
Just like TMS,when you begin to battle it,it will try to tell you you're wrong,and if you don't listen ,it will try to metamorphisize into another symptom
OCD is like a thief...it has already stolen away too much of my life.I'm really tired of it....'you're OUTTA' here'
,...and Stryder...that's FUNNY..I actually worked making the stupid shows I don't watch (TV) and the dumb movies I don't rent(films)..That anger/frustration is what ran me out of L.A. and into the 'country'...only problem is,they worship it MORE here than they did in L.A. !!!!!!
Non TV watchers are very few and far between.
-piggy
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The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up. |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 12/22/2005 : 23:29:53
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| Good stuff, the input from everybody on this topic. I've never thought of myself as particularly prone to OCD, but after reading through these posts I realize I am. I too went through the childhood "going to Hell" "I'm a sinner" phase (Catholic). Nowadays, my obsession-compulsion seems to be health matters. I'm a hypochondriac. Every time I experience a symptom of any kind, my first thought is to catastrophize it. No, the sore throat is not simply a sore throat, it is cancer. No, the bump on my skin is not a harmless cyst, it is melanoma. And recently, the MS-like symptoms I have experienced, but after exhaustive tests assured all was well...well, there MUST be SOMETHING they are not seeing. Over time, I have become expert at experiencing symptoms for which no physical explanation is ever found. And since this stuff feeds upon itself, one experience making the next that much more likely, the frequency and intensity of various symptoms have increased. As soon as one fire is put out I have a few days or weeks of peace before the next one begins. I'm in the middle of another episode that began a few days ago. Chronic depression and anxiety don't help. I think I'm ready to try something new. What absolutely does not work is to be sucked into the old pattern of giving credence to the external, the physical symptom, instead of looking inward for the answer. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2005 : 05:17:32
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Wrld,
Try this. Go ahead, take that harmless bump to melanoma and beyond. When you get to the image of yourself all layed out in your funeral suit, remind yourself that in fact we are all mortal and that sooner or later we all will get cancer, or if not cancer, then some fatal condition or other...The point is, fear doesn't help. It's no defense at all against the inevitable.
Something else that helps me is to remind myself that for most of the span of the universe I've been "dead" and will be dead, with the merest instant of life sandwiched in...It didn't bother me when I was not alive through all those billions of years before birth, and it's not going to bother me afterward....
Anyway, something that's worked for me...
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Edited by - art on 12/23/2005 05:41:59 |
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jilly_girl
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2005 : 07:35:46
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baseball said:
Yeah..@ Jilly do NOT just stop taking the xanax...it's worse than heroin to kick.It's not how MUCH but how much and how long you've been on it.
If you decide to quit altogether,there is a method called "The Ashton Protocol" which you can download for free online(searching always turns up 'pay' sites first...scroll further)...you switch to Valium which is not as strong and then decrease.Xanax ,klonopin etc. are some of the strongest benzo's made...don't let their 'mildness' catch you off guard.
Baseball LOL......Xanax isnt the monster you think it is. Its a good drug that helped me live a reasonably normal life for a while. I have been on and off it before. No complicated protocols required. Just cut down a bit each day. I've gone from 4 1 mg pills a day to 1/2 pill a day in a weeks time. There is a lot of weird misinformation and ideas about Xanax. Obviously there are some people addicted to huge doses who need help getting off it. Thanks for your concern
Jill |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2005 : 12:36:34
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Just for a little added texture to the discussion, I was addicted to xanax and it took me the better part of two years, that's years, to even begin to feel normal again.
It was hell on wheels. |
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catastrophizing
