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PeterW
Canada
102 Posts |
 Posted - 11/14/2005 : 19:03:23
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Elise8, I would recommend the Nature's Way bottles of 100 capsules just to see how it works for you. There's often deals to be found from different online companies that distribute it.
It can be a lot cheaper getting it in bulk powder form but it's usually sold by the pound or kilo this way. That's a whole lot of suma, so I'd try the smaller quantities first. |
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PeterW
Canada
102 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2005 : 19:22:04
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Yowire,
Thanks for the excellent post. Yes, you've lived the reality. You've also put a lot of thought into this and having been there first hand you have the power of your experiences to back you up.
I'm trying to stay open minded about this myself and I see the truth or at least the possiblity in a lot of what you said. You may well be right. We all have our own opinions, assumptions and biases. To some it may seem like I'm analysing and intellectuallizing this too much, but on this issue it's important to me to throw my own opinions and biases out there, to challenge other opinions and assumptions and also to have my own (heavily embedded) ones challenged. That's how we learn and grow.
" I believe CFS begins with a frame of mind. A perception that our body is fragile or weak or incompetent, that we have "bad nerves" or we have a "sensitive nervous system" or a feeling that our immune system is vulnerable ,a belief that in some sense we are at risk".
This is one thing I do disagree with, at least for the start of the process. For me, the frame of mind you refer to set in after the onset of CFS (and also my first back pain episode). It was after a few weeks and then months of seeing no progress that the worrying and obsessing set in. At first I fully expected that I would just heal up and bounce back as I always had in the past from injuries and illnesses. That didn't happen, and it was then that the fear and negative beliefs that you describe set in, and I do have the type of personality that is so vulnerable to this. Then yes, everything you descibe became part of the cycle. But there were a whole pile of emotional and physical stressors at the time it started. And developing CFS just quadrupled it all.
"PeterW, from your posts it seems like you are trying to argue that Dr. Sarno's method will not work for CFS."
My main point was that it will not be enough for everybody with CFS. Looking back, I can honestly say that it wouldn't have been enough for me by itself, not when my CFS was really bad. And returning to normal activity would have been unthinkable. My system needed boosting first. But we're all different, and obviously there are many who have benefitted.
For years I would have got real pissed with anyone who suggested CFS was psychologically driven. That was after years of the hearing the usual cliches - just depression, malingering, illness behavior, whatever. Then after reading some of Poesnecker's stuff (he describes basically the same predisposing personality type as Sarno) and Elaine Aron's 'Highly Sensitive Person' some lightbulbs did go off. More went off from reading Sarno this summer. I still think his work needs to be adapted better for CFS patients, especially the "Return to normal activity' part, but you addressed that well:
" You may be right about this to an extent. I can remember times when I would feel a little better, then I would try to exercise only to have a relapse of swollen glands and fatigue that could last for weeks or longer. However, it is possible that this could be a conditioned response. I'm just not sure. I've read posts here where people with pain have seen it relapse due to exercise. However, I am not one who believes that TMS is always harmless. I believe it can cause changes in the body. For example, I think that it can affect the immune system. Many CFS responses may be real physical responses. If this is true than yes, it may not be a good idea to return to normal activity until mind and body are ready."
That's everybodys' experience when trying to push the limits with CFS. Personally, I dont think it's a conditioned response, I think physical changes in the endocrine, nervous and immune systems are driving the symptoms, and those are probably driven by changes to the hypothalamus. Which of course is in the brain, and controls all kinds of stuff. There has been lot of discussion about this even in mainstream research and the odd rebel like Paul Cheney.
From what I've experienced and read and know from other patients there's no question that there are real changes happening in the metabolism with CFS patients. With such severe symptoms it's amazing some people even survive. I agree, symptoms at this level are most definately not harmless. Even though CFS doesn't directly kill, it can threaten survival. I know some who couldn't look after themselves, others who just decided to end it.
I also know that addressing those glandular and endocrine problems can make a huge difference, and get a lot of people back into life and working again. Though it may be true these are not the originating root causes for everybody. As you say, you didn't need this approach.
"I believe that this doesn't change the fact that it is initiated in the mind. "
Sarno obviously believes it's a Mindbody thing. Now I see this Reverse Therapy that Kajsa went to saying the same thing - from their site: "It is based on the realisation that some illnesses - Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/M.E. included - are actually glandular disorders which are triggered by Bodymind through the Hypothalamus when Bodymind picks up that the individual is at risk of emotional harm from the environment.'
'Bodymind' being sort of their term for the unconcious mind.
I first read Sarno for back pain this summer but when I saw him lumping CFS in with every other TMS condition my reaction was like "Whoa, do you really know what you're saying there? The CFS part has been harder for me to grasp than the pain part. But you may be right. And CFS isn't much of an issue for me now anyway. |
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johnnyg
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2005 : 08:31:56
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Thanks to all for the detailed info on CFS. There are many times that spitting out "same old Sarno stuff" in posts either misses the point or is unhelpful, but the fact is that everyone has to adapt the technique to their situation--no one can do that for you. This isn't by far the first post to say that "something more than Sarno is needed" in some cases. Many posters, including myself, have acknowledged that something more is helpful and sometimes necessary for completely getting rid of very severe or entrenched cases of TMS. For me anger release has worked well.
If you read carefully Sarno's books, you will find that his approach to CFS and fibro, which are both what I think he would classify as very severe advanced forms of TMS, isn't quite the same as classic TMS. The scope of his books have not been able cover the specifics of treating the severist forms. For example, my TMS doctor told me that there is a TMS doctor who tells his fibro patients that it may be necessary for them to literally and actually simplify their lives. This could mean anything from dropping out of extracurricular activities to quitting your job. Having been a severe case, I completely agree, even though it basically goes against Sarno's saying that changes aren't required.
IMHO it is very dangerous to start acknowledging that anything other than psychological factors causes TMS-related disorders. I'm convinced I would be bedridden today with CFS if I hadn't read Healing Back Pain. Unfortuanately the longer you go on with such a disorder, the harder it is to recover and maybe at some point irreversible changes do occur. My mother has a friend with Parkinson's disease that came on after severe back and neck pain that started . . .[drum roll please]. . . after her divorce over years ago. Will she reverse parkinson's by TMS therapy? probably not; but if she had done TMS therapy five or ten years ago could she have prevented the of Parkinson's? very likely yes--I don't personally have trouble believing that since I believe stress is a huge factor in the onset of cancer.
The cause of TMS related disorders under Sarno's theor sounds so simple that there isn't a soul that wants to deny it at some time or other. But don't make it more complicated than it has to be. |
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PeterW
Canada
102 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2005 : 13:20:37
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Kajsa, In case you're interested:
There's an offshoot of the Reverse Therapy by one of its founders called Mickel Therapy.
I mention this because there's a practitioner listed in the Netherlands. May be a bit closer for you to travel to since you have to travel to London for Reverse Therapy and since there seemingly aren't any TMS therapists in Europe.
http://www.mickeltherapy.com
JohnnyG, I agree with you on pretty well everything. Many of us do have to adapt the technique to our own situation, and add other techniques and input too. Without making it all too too complicated of course. Very good point.
I think the Freedom from Fibromyalgia (Nancy Selfridge) book does a fair job of adapting Sarno's work to really heavy duty stuff like fibromyalgia.
I agree stress and emotion no doubt play a big role in the onset of cancer and probably a lot else too. In fact I'd say that some aspects of Sarno's work (personality and psychology) could be applicable to many cancer patients and those with other serious ailments, even though technically they aren't TMS and would be treated quite differently.
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johnnyg
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2005 : 14:38:12
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I was thinking of actually reading Freedom from Fibro after he mentioned it since I felt that simplification was unfortunately necessary for me. But I'm trying to get through each day with only mental work and trying to live life "normally"
One other thing you might want to consider is the possibility that your doubts that CFS is 100% psychological could be a contributing factor to the failure to achieve full recovery. The tenacity of the pain makes it easier to think there could be some physical cause--I refuse to be fooled!! |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2005 : 16:03:10
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This is a fascinating thread. I had forgotten (amazing) that I had CFS 13 years ago. It came on about 6 months after I was in a very bad accident - burnt in a fire. It was very traumatic. I was dating my exhusband at the time and had a very bad relationship with my mother. I had no idea what i wanted to do with my life and definitely had depression. My symptoms were terrible, terrible fatigue and low grade depression. I had it for about 2 years. Then I went to see a naturopathic physician who switched me to the blood type diet - almost no sugar - no carbs. My symptoms stopped immediately. It was incredible. I now think this could be a very very powerful placebo. I have spoken to sarno about this and he believes that diet acts very effectively as a placebo. As soon as my fatigue stopped, my TMS pain - which was mild occasional sciatica got a lot worse. Coincidence? - I think not.
I am 100% convinced that CFS is exactly like TMS. This last summer, when I was thinking of breaking off my engagement, my fatigue came back again - very strange. I forgot what it was like. I immediately went to see a doctor and had my adrenals checked - wrong!!!! I called Sarno who told me it was nonsense - just another TMS manifestation. He told me to ignore it. I did. It went away. I made some changes to my life - broke off engagement - I guess simplified things. I now have no symptoms at all. I am still working on introducing new foods to my diet - breaking that pattern is really difficult - after 12 years of it.
I think that all the other cures - food changes, herbs, vitamins etc. are just placebos - good ones - very powerful ones but that is all they are. I hate to even say this as I was sucked in for years and years. TMS moves around and changes all the time.
This has been my experience. |
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Kajsa
Denmark
144 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2005 : 07:46:20
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A lot of interesting thoughts here.
You folks differ a bit in your opinions about the syndrome - and we have no “truth” here -
we only have our personal experiences.
I will not explain Reverse therapy with my bad English. If you are interested in more details it´s best to
look on the webbside.http://www.reverse-therapy.com/
Under “information packs” (end of the page) - you find a link to “Information on treatment Process” and there
John Eaton explains his theory pretty well. You can also buy his book.
It is NOT new age. Quite the opposite I think. A rather “down to earth” approach which gives you tools to work with the condition. In theory it is quite similar to Sarno but some things differ.
In RT you are not supposed to ignore your symptoms - instead you are supposed to observe them (without being
stressed or annoyed by them ) and carefully look at situations when they raise or fall. In the beginning it is hard to se patterns (CFS is very irregular - one day you can do something - and the next day the same action is devastating etc) But you are supposed to look at your symptoms as something good - that actually wants to help you. When you have bad symptoms - you are supposed to “take action” and then see if the symptoms get less intense.
It’s a long way - and lots of work - but for me it is good.
It´s all about listen to your body.( And not so much to your brain.)
I think that we have something in common - a lot of us TMS people. We are often sensitive and intellectual and try very, very hard to solve our problems - using the brain.
Journaling and searching for deep anger etc is all very good but it sometimes can be a trap - people try “to hard” - they do Sarno 24 hours and use all their brain capacity to “solve the mystery of the symptoms”. And get very annoyed when the symptoms doesn´t go away. So they try even harder etc. I think this is very contra productive.
RT is more of turning down the noise from the brain and start listen to the body instead.
I can hear that this sounds a bit out of the blue perhaps… you have to read about it on the webbside instead.
Yowire wrote:
I think that the main reason I improved was that over time I began to lose my fear of the symptoms because doctors and their tests kept reassuring me that nothing was wrong. Once the symptoms lose their effectiveness they are replaced by new ones.
This is interesting stuff. I would say that my fibromyalgia eased when my fear for it eased. And RT helps me to loose my fear for fatigue. ( First I was terrified of the pain and then when the pain subsided I was terrified of the fatigue. ..).
Yowire - are your fatigue totally gone now? I guess you got pain problems after that ?
Sarno and RT is techniques to help us to deal with psychosomatic illness in a different way. I will always struggle with this I guess but I am also quite sure that my symptoms will be less severe and occur less often -as my fears subside.
I am now 43 years old and have had problems with fibromyalgia and fatigue for 12 years.
I have an earlier episode as well - and it is interesting to look back. When I was about 20 years old I was in a very stressful situation. I suddenly got low-grade fever and a devastating fatigue. I started to take my temperature every day and it was always a bit to high. I was warm and dizzy and very, very worried. I went to a lot of doctors and did a lot of tests. This went on for many months. At last I ended up with a very wise doctor who told me to throw away my fever thermometer. “stop checking your fever !” he told me. He agreed that my temperature was to high but he sad that I just should stop worry about it.
The next day the fever was gone and I felt excellent!
I sometimes think about what would have happened if I have read an article about CFS before seeing this nice
Doctor (fortunately CFS wasn´t “discovered” then).
I am sure that it could have been devastating and I could have ended up with CFS for years - if someone have given me the diagnosis in that moment.
Instead I got my health back. Sometimes (not often) after a cold or so I got this low-grade fever again - but then I always thougt about the doctors advice and ignored it - and it went away.
So I stayed healthy until a lot of stress gave me “fibromyalgia” and I was told that it was not curable.
This time it is much harder to recondition (decondition?). I am older and have had the symptoms for so long. But pain is not a probleme for me today.
So it is possible.
We all know that.
Kajsa
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Kajsa
Denmark
144 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2005 : 07:58:32
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And thank you Peter W for the link to Mickeltherapy.
I know about him as well. But I think that John Eats book was
much more serious.
I think that they had the company together at first - and then split.
Kajsa
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drziggles
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2005 : 09:47:16
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Suz mentioned the "blood type diet" and how it may have acted as a powerful placebo. I think that is probably right, but that it serves a particular role unlike some other placebos. When you think about the role of pain or other symptoms such as fatigue in TMS, the goal is to act as a distraction from uncomfortable repressed emotions. Other potentially successful non-TMS based treatments such as that diet, or the guafenesin/fibro diet in "What your doctor may not tell you about fibromyalgia" are probably effective by exchanging one type of obsession (pain and physical symptoms) with another (ridiculously restrictive diet plan).
Spending most of ones time on determining what you can or can't eat provides the new "distraction" from uncomfortable emotions, therefore making the fibro symptoms no longer necessary.
As a tangent, it would seem as if eating disorders like bulimia/ anorexia could also be very effective TMS equivalents, since they have a similar obsession quality. Has anyone here experienced that in their dealings with TMS? |
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elise8
USA
72 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2005 : 13:46:32
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Sarno alone did not do much. I had to add nutritional therapy and other modalities, as my coping mechanisms had been severely weakened (adrenal glands, etc). So while I did use Sarno methods the symptoms would not go away until I built my physical body up again so I could deal with the external stressors, good or bad. Inability to handle or deal with any stress probably stems from TMS type personality, but once your physical body becomes severely weaknened as in severe chronic fatigue syndrome it must be given the right nurition, rest and or other healing modalities to heal again and to become strong again to handle the stress and then use the mind effectively (TMS techniques) to keep the stress from affecting the body.. That is my take on it...
Elise
Elise8 |
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yowire
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2005 : 14:07:24
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From my earlier post:
quote:
I believe CFS begins with a frame of mind. A perception that our body is fragile or weak or incompetent, that we have "bad nerves" or we have a "sensitive nervous system" or a feeling that our immune system is vulnerable, a belief that in some sense we are at risk.
I'd like to expand on this a little more because I think its important to understand that the frame of mind that I described can sometimes be very subtle. It is not always at the forefront of our thoughts but lurks in the background. I think that it is almost a by-product of our sensitive personality, but there are other factors involved. I'll try to explain.
We constantly hear stories about how this causes cancer and that causes cancer. What we breathe can cause cancer, what we eat can cause cancer and heart disease. Our water can be contaminated with chemicals that cause cancer. We can't go outdoors too long because the sun causes cancer. The buildings we live and work in may have asbestos or other dangers that can cause cancer. Now they're even telling us that sleep can kill us because of sleep apnea and snoring is a sign. Hey, I've been told that I snore. I also lived in a house with asbestos in the basement for twelve years. High tension wires and cell phones may cause brain tumors. Hey, I use a cell phone. Oh No, I'm at risk. Even if you don't smoke we are told that we're still at risk because of second hand smoke.
Currently we are supposed to be worried about bird flu. In recent times there have been stories about Ebola virus, west nile virus, flesh eating bacteria, Mad Cow disease and others. We've been told there is mercury in our fish and mercury in our tooth fillings, antibiotics in our meat products and other threats to our immune system. We've grown up with stories about pollution and toxic clean-up sites near where we live.
Our relatives have had surgeries, joint replacements and a host of maladies. Our co-workers constantly regale us with tales of their aches and pains and surgeries. Not only that, these same co-workers tell us about their relatives aches and pains and surgeries. This one had a stroke. That one had a nervous breakdown and so on. In fact, just this week at work there were conversations about: a gall bladder operation, kidney stones, hearing loss and diarrhea. And that was just Thursday and Friday. I've already forgotten the ones for MT & W. Then when a close family member or loved one dies of cancer or heart disease it really hits home. And you know what it means if a close family member has had cancer or heart disease. It means you are at risk because of your genes.
In addition, we are constantly exposed to medical news and advertisements telling us how we may need this treatment or that. Even those with the most physical prowess, our professional athletes, seem to be sent for surgeries no matter how minor the injury. This seems especially true for major league baseball players. It seems like nobody just heals anymore, they have to be "repaired".
I could go on and on. Its been like this for as long as I can remember. I know that some people can just shrug it all off, but unfortunately I am not one of them, especially in the past. If you fit the sensitive personality profile as I do, than I just don't see how you can't be affected by this on some level. All of it tends to make us feel more fragile. Dr. Sarno's books have really helped me build up a barrier to this relentless barrage of negative bodytalk. Its really something we need to be aware of.
A reasonable analogy to this is how our frame of mind has changed to our feelings about the risk of being a victim of crime. We are inundated with images of crime from our newspapers, TV news, movies, TV shows, and other sources. I'm in my mid forties and I can remember a time when we didn't worry so much about locking doors and personal security as we do today. Now we think twice about even opening the door if someone knocks. We all look over our shoulders a bit more when away from home. This thinking has become like second nature to us now. Just last night I took a walk around my neighborhood and I noticed that I was concerned when a car pulled up beside me. Later a scruffy looking man with long hair approached me and I wondered if I would have to defend myself. Often now on these walks I carry a small canister of pepper spray. I remember when I used to go for a walk and not worry about any of these things. Has the crime rate really gotten worse? Maybe so, but has it grown in proportion to the change in our frame of mind? Probably not.
I also would bet that most people who have had CFS have also had less severe TMS episodes in the years preceding the onset of CFS. For me it was recurrent tension headaches, skin problems and others. These also contribute to our state of mind about our bodies.
As sensitive people we are a tender lot to begin with. When we are faced with emotional or physical trauma ourselves, these feelings can be magnified. Since we take things to heart more than others, I believe we tend to develop some false beliefs about our nerves and our reactions to stress. I have learned to recognize these in myself and I can see them very clearly in other highly sensitive people that I know personally.
At the onset of my CFS, I also thought that it was just a virus and I would get over it within a week as I always had. When it wouldn't go away, the frame of mind I mentioned was magnified. However, I think that the seeds of doubt had already been planted. Then the fear, frustration and anger over my condition began to fuel the spiralling descent into full blown CFS.
Yowire
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Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2005 : 14:41:23
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I wondered if worrying about getting breast cancer was increasing the number of cases.
We are advised to check our breasts when we bathe or shower and although you don't expect to find anything there is always a faint flicker of fear - what if! So there are huge numbers of women feeling a little anxious about it several times a week, 52 weeks a year - maybe this could increase the incidence.
Anne
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jilly_girl
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2005 : 15:05:08
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scottydog says:
I wondered if worrying about getting breast cancer was increasing the number of cases.
We are advised to check our breasts when we bathe or shower and although you don't expect to find anything there is always a faint flicker of fear - what if! So there are huge numbers of women feeling a little anxious about it several times a week, 52 weeks a year - maybe this could increase the incidence.
my last mammogram (besides the two week wait period! which drives me insane), they smushed so hard i had a bloody discharge from one nipple. so it was back for an ultrasound. i was beside myself with worry. nothing was wrong. not sure this is good for me or that i will continue having them.
Jill |
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Kajsa
Denmark
144 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2005 : 10:39:44
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I read your post with interest Yowire.
(don´t have my dictionary here so forgive my spelling)
As long as our bodys think that we are in danger - it will produce symptoms. That is RT in a nutshell, more or less.
Our minds (brains) can not always convince the body that it is "al right" - we also have to act.
Actually do things that concvince the body that we have controle - are in charge - can live a "normal" life.
Taking action is important to stay symptomfree.
But taking action is the LAST thing on earth that you whant to do when you really are fatigued.
I never stoped working though (because I have a job that´s not to demanding luckily). A pattern that I noticed is that going up in the morning - go to work - actually do my job etc despite the fatigue - is very, very important for my health.
If I stay at home , rest, pace, nursing my symptoms - the fatigue increase more and more. In the begining of my sickness I went to a
cottage in the country for a week - to really get a rest. I hoped it would help me to get better. I slept moore and moore - and the fatigue just increased and increased. That was a real lowpoint for me.
I thought that I could never leave the bed.
On the train home from the cottege - my fatigue finally eased. (I was actually doing something - travelling -taking action - going back to my job and family...).
It is hard because you have to listen to your body and listen to your symptoms - but not let the symptoms controle your life. Instead you have to find the patterns – when do your symptoms raise and fall.
It is a big step to actually see that there ARE patterns (CFS is so damned unpredictible often)
Fatigue is something very different from being tired. It can vanish sometimes in a second (after being there for weeks). When it vanish
It is nearly always when I have a moment of trust and action and feel
that I controle my life and belong to a group of people that give my life a meaning etc.
Kajsa
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yowire
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2005 : 19:36:07
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From Kajsa
quote:
Yowire - are your fatigue totally gone now? I guess you got pain problems after that ?
Hi Kajsa,
I still get some minor fatigue from time to time but it is not even close to what I used to get. It is no longer a problem. When the chronic fatigue syndrome began to lift there was a transition to depression, neck and shoulder pain and stiffness, stomach problems, IBS, TMJ, and neurological symptoms amongst others.
Kajsa wrote:
quote:
As long as our bodys think that we are in danger - it will produce symptoms. That is RT in a nutshell, more or less.
I am not familiar with Reverse Therapy but I will look into it. What I was trying to say in my post was that we are influenced by all the negative physical messages that we receive daily. I feel that the unconscious mind can sense when we are likely to believe that we have the potential to fall victim to a symptom. When it senses this, it attempts to initiate the symptom in whatever way it can (oxygen deprivation or other). If the person believes in the symptom and fears it, the symptom will continue. If the person just kind of shrugs it off and doesn't dwell on the symptom it will not stick. I believe that because of all the negative physical messages we receive, we become more likely to feel that there is a potential for weakness in our bodies and the unconscious mind takes advantage of this for a psychological purpose.
Yowire
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Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2005 : 06:25:18
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This is a quote from a former chronic fatigue sufferer's weblog:-
So consider this: If you work in an office and have something important to do (when is anything in an office ever marked 'Not Important!') and people are constantly phoning and interrupting your work, frustrating your attempts to get your task completed, your body/mind will try to generate a reaction - maybe to pick up the phone and throw it out the window, or run out of the office screaming 'Why can't I get some peace and quiet!!'.
Of course nobody ever takes either option because they'd get fired. On the other hand your body/mind knows there is a possible chain of events behind all this - fail to complete the important task and maybe you'll get fired anyway; maybe you won't get another job; maybe then your marriage/relationship will break up; maybe then you'll loose your home; maybe then you'll go hungry etc, etc. No matter how confident you are of your position, we all know these things are possible, if unlikely.
So your leg muscles and your arm muscles are constantly being primed for action to help you get your job done, but due to office etiquette, that action - throwing the phone out the window - never takes place. If this happens day after day, and if your bodies' defences are already raised because of a virus or an injury, the body gets even more defensive and demands more of a response. Even if you move to a better job, or work off your frustrations on the Squash court, because this resolution is not linked to the ringing phone at the time, the body/mind may believe this potential threat to its security has not been resolved. As a result it can start off the loop of feedback that leads to ME/CFS.
http://www.beatcfs.info/reverse1.htm
The middle paragraph sounds like some of Baseball's journalling!
Scottydog |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2005 : 08:36:15
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DrZiggles,
I loved your response to my theory of the Blood type diet being a placebo. It has taken me a long time to wrap my head around the fact that it could all be nonsense. I genuinly feel different when I don't eat sugar or wheat/too many grains. I am convinced this is a conditioned response of my body.
What purpose does it serve? Absolutely - the perfect distraction from the real emotional turmoil going on in my brain. I had an eating disorder through my marriage and that served as the same thing.
The trick for me is to break the conditioned response. This is taking time. It is all about overcoming the fear. I also equate eating sugar and carbs with my skin breaking out - another conditioned response. It is a great distraction as I can really obsess over my skin when I wake up in the mornings. TMS will go anywhere. The media and the medical profession all feed into this - dermatologists tell you there is something wrong with your skin so you need this medication or that cream - just like physical therapists and chiropractors.
I feel like I have been given the most tremendous gift in the knowledge from Sarno. It has been a year and a half now since I discovered his theory and it really works. It takes patience and perseverance and relaxing! Everything heals in its own time
I believe the first step is overcoming the fear. For me - the back pain comes very infrequently now and goes away almost immediately as I have no fear of it. Instead, i just look for the emotional cause and I let myself feel.
The food - more challenging. I introduce new foods bit by bit and just laugh at the symptoms.
This has given me tremendous freedom and insight into my life. I am much more aware of what I feel now. I no longer consider myself a "sick person". There is nothing wrong with me and it's great! |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2005 : 08:39:04
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I just wanted to add - that I felt like a prisoner of my health for 12 years - that is a long time. Alot of wasted years where I couldn't eat anything and couldn't exercise and had terrible fatigue.
It is because of Sarno, that all this has changed.
No fatigue, no back pain, I am eating more and more new foods, no depression, no anxiety, no acne rosacea - the list goes on.
It's fabulous! |
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Kajsa
Denmark
144 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2005 : 14:50:03
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Nice to hear that you are getting on so well now, Suz !
/Kajsa |
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PeterW
Canada
102 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2005 : 16:10:22
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I've found this a fascinationg discussion and have taken a lot from it, even though my experiences with and perceptions of CFS may have been different from some.
Thanks Yowire for elaborating on your 'frame of mind' thoughts. That was a great post and I understand a lot better what you're getting at. I'd add that along with the cultural bombardment of negativity you refer to there's a simultaneous bombardment of images and expectations of what we should be, should do, should strive for etc etc. After planting in us the paranoia inspiring reminders of all that can go wrong with our bodies and lives, the media and often our own families and peers give us images of heros and superachievers who seem to have it all so together, who overcome every obstacle on their way to accomplishing everything they ever dreamed of. Inspiring maybe, but for those of us who are highly sensitive, have self esteem issues and who feel fragile on some level, I think it can set us up for even more self induced stress. We can then feel we have to compete with and measure up to these super people to feel worthy. It's got to wreak havoc with our subconcious minds when we're fed all the 'strive and achieve and be this way' messages on top of 'here's 1001 ways your health and life can go terribly wrong' messages on top of 'you are fragile' messages and beliefs. I know the perfectionist and worrier within me can get fed real good by this stuff if I'm not careful.
I also know the frustration and anger I felt about being so laid out for so long was kept well fed by my perceptions of what others were able to do and experience at that time that I wasn't. So my self esteem issues and feelings of not measuring up or being adequate, while being there to start with, were then multiplied exponentially BY becoming and staying ill.
"I just wanted to add - that I felt like a prisoner of my health for 12 years - that is a long time. Alot of wasted years where I couldn't eat anything and couldn't exercise and had terrible fatigue."
Suz, huge congratulations on getting so much better! Maybe its irrelevant to you now but I'm curious how much anger and frustration you felt at that time towards the symptoms themselves, and how much that might have helped perpetuate the cycle. Did those 12 wasted years contribute towards your pool of concious or unconcious anger? I ask because all the wasted years and unfulfilled dreams that resulted from CFS and other health problems have in all honesty been a huge source of anger and frustration, been the biggest threat to my own sense of fulfilment and well being, and probably the biggest contributer towards feelings of not measuring up or not being good enough during many years of my own life.
Thanks Kajsa for the explanations of Reverse therapy. I now have a friend who read the site, had one of those 'this is IT' moments, and is totally psyched to do it. There ia a Reverse practitioner here in Canada (Hamilton, Ont) and a Merkel version of it in Victoria BC.
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CFS /ME
