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n/a
560 Posts |
 Posted - 09/13/2005 : 07:54:54
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Got this note from a TMS doctor:
"You might also want to check into someone who does EMDR (eye movement desensitization and reprocessing), which is a method of working with past traumas to clear them away and allow for healing. EFT (emotional freedom technique) is a similar technique."
Associated websites for this are:
http://www.emdr.com/
and
http://www.emofree.com/
The latter one is interesting because someone posted here that it is Pseud- scientific yet at least one TMS doctor recommends is for physchotherapy.
I have not tried either one of them.
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Lmvine
27 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 10:13:52
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I have used EFT for several months. EFT- http://www.emofree.com. FREE 70 page manual that describes technique. Works best for specific trauma events, food sensitivities, tougher for GAD.
I have a number of his CD & DVDs which he sells for a very reasonable price. Most impressive is his five days at the VA where he "cured" several vets who had suffered PTSD for YEARS, mostly over specific trauma events in Vietnam. See http://www.emofree.com/freestuff.htm
It has worked especially well for us for food & other sensitivities soap, makeup,etc) where the EFT is used to clear the issue after using muscle testing to determine if one is sensitive.
Since TMS is emotional based and EFT is an emotional freeing technique it is another tool like books, tapes, etc.
Dan |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 10:33:55
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Dan
I am very interested in the food allergy - EMT approach - although I read a little about it and it seems to involve tapping or something?? i am confused how this relates to emotional issues - is it just a distraction? I would love to eat any foods I want with no adverse reactions. Do you have to go to an EMT person?
Recently, I have started to eat lots of things I don't normally - slowly, bit by bit. i have approached my symptoms of acne, bloating, constipation by relating them to anxiety and emotional issues instead - I think I might be winning the battle as I seem to have clear skin and I have eaten bread, milk with no adverse effects. The answer seems to lie in the fear component - that has to be overcome in order for the real "cure" to take place. For me, this is undoing 12 years of fear related to eating certain foods. As soon as I start thinking that way, I look at what is going on in my life instead.
I am not sure how EMT ties in with Sarno's techniques and don't want to confuse my progress. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 11:07:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Suz
I am not sure how EMT ties in with Sarno's techniques and don't want to confuse my progress.
Exactly.
EFT is not like a book or tape. It is a questionable technique without a proven clinical record.
Who is to say that the technique (e.g. tapping as in EFT, or eye movements as in EMDR) has anything to do with the results. Could it be that the theraputic portion of the treatment is the part that has the true effect, and that this therapy, given without the gimmicks of EFT and EMDR, would be just as effective?
IMO Suz is right. We have all the tools we need to treat TMS. Mostly, it lies within ourselves. If you are searching for other techniques or books or tapes or alternative therapies or questionable practices then you are not treating TMS; you are grasping at straws. Your time would be better spent journaling, or going outside and riding a bike. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 13:59:41
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| When in doubt, go to www.quackwatch.org --- Quackwatch calls EFT a mental health procedure to avoid. Go to the website for the details. The info on EFT is in the TFT section. |
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Calvin
USA
46 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 14:42:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Fox
When in doubt, go to www.quackwatch.org --- Quackwatch calls EFT a mental health procedure to avoid. Go to the website for the details. The info on EFT is in the TFT section.
That being said, if you searched TMS on there, you'd find it listed under "dubious diagnostic tests" in the questionnaire section. |
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drziggles
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 17:34:20
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Call me a downer, but I feel that these other techniques serve as distractions from TMS therapy, by reinforcing the idea that some sort of physical treatment is needed to treat the problem. As long as that is the case, there will always be barriers to accepting TMS and getting over it.
That being said, neither EMDR nor EFT are physically harmful, so are still better than other stuff like chiropractic cervical manipulation (which can cause strokes, though not often), surgery, etc. What ever works for you guys... |
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Suz
559 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 17:40:02
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Dr. Ziggles,
I agree with you - I believe these techniques serve as distractions - where does the "cure" lie - in the emotional - it's all about looking inward instead of at the physical. I am noticing more and more the connection between symptoms - whether they are back pain (I have this so mildly) or gastrointestinal, food intolerances or skin problems - all of these I can now link to particular events in my day or a build up over a couple of days. This often seems to be work related -like overly conscientious or perfectionist - just plain worried I am not good enough at my job and might be found out or for me - relationship based - recent break off of engagement and a new adjustment to my new life - all these can cause a lot of anger and anxiety. I now use the symptoms to check in and I stop what I am doing and say "hey - what's going on with me". I take a long look and sometimes it ends in emotions where I might cry or get angry - I just let it out. Then I shrug off the physical and do something else. This really seems to be working for me and I feel tremendous liberation. All of this can be done with ones' own resources |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2005 : 18:35:28
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From the EFT website. I'm sorry to offend anyone, but truly, I'm so sick of greedy so-called health care practitioners plying their dubious trades, whatever their particular brand of snake-oil might be, from chiropractic to NAET to EFT, all in an effort to separate from their suffering patients as much money as they can...
Shameless in my opinion.
quote:
Here's a common sense way to use the idea of specialization to develop endless referrals, a fulfilling practice, a Premiere Presence and (perish the thought) wads of money. I hope this doesn't sound too grandiose. I am quite serious about it. Further, it can be launched without having to compromise your existing practice.
Here's what you do. Seek out the golf pro at a local country club. Tell him you have discovered a way to knock several strokes off someone's golf score (EFT will do this). Tell him the process deals with the mental side of the game. Tell him it serves to relax the golfer whenever self doubt or tension appears. Every golf pro on the planet recognizes this problem and knows its solution is crucial to success. Tell him you want to run a study and you will do it for free for 10 golfers. You do it for free to get your foot in the door without resistance. You want 10 golfers because you don't want to pin your star on what happens with just one golfer. With 10 golfers you are almost certain to have some impressive successes. With the help of the golf pro you will get volunteers and it doesn't matter what age or sex you are. Golfers are in constant pursuit of lower scores and some of them will give you their Ferrari if you can knock 5 strokes off their game.
Spend a little time on the weekends doing this. This is time when you are not usually in session with paying clients. Just before each shot have the golfers tap the EFT Shortcut Sequence (EB through UA). This takes 7 seconds to do and doesn't hold up or impede the play of other golfers on the course. This will usually serve to remove subtle tension in the body. Some golfers may find it more effective to do the tapping only when they feel self doubt about their next shot. Forget about the Psychological Reversal correction, the Reminder Phrase and the 9 Gamut procedure for now. They take too much time and are too "strange" at this stage. Use them later to further improve results. Your only goal at this stage is to relax any tension that may be in the body and that may interfere with an otherwise smooth shot. Thumping on these points (without saying a thing) each time will likely do this. Just tell them it is an "emotional relaxation technique."
5 to 8 out of 10 golfers should get noticeable, if not dramatic, improvements. However, I would propose giving a much lower figure to the golf pro. Perhaps 2 or 3 out of 10. That way when you more than double the golf pro's expectations, he will be most pleased. Whatever your result, however, the golfers you have helped will become your instant and enthusiastic supporters. To golfers, golf is a big deal. They spend a lot of time and a LOT of money in pursuit of improving their game.
With these successes under your belt you can run "clinics" or charge for individual help. You can go out with a foursome and charge each of them $100 with a money back guarantee if their score doesn't improve. When you become better known you can charge $200, $300, $500 etc. The more affluent the country club, the better.
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2005 : 19:54:47
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| The problem is the recommending doctor does not get a cent from these treatments. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 03:39:09
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quote:
The problem is the recommending doctor does not get a cent from these treatments
I don't understand your point Peter. Presumably he's got plenty of paying golfers of his own..
This is indicative of a certain mind set, an underlying naked and cynical greed that is to me an utter turn off. He says to pretend they're doing a "study" in order to get their foot in the door. Not only is it greedy, it's dishonest. |
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Lmvine
27 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 08:27:15
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Hey, the workbook to learn EFT is FREE. And IMO it is not a physical distraction. It is designed to free your emotional issues and I see it as a complement to TMS therapy.
Just like TMS the "AMA type" community looks at both EFT & TMS as a threat.
As to food alergies/sensitivities test the object by muscle testing google to see how to do then if sensitive clear the issue with the EFT procedure. It has worked for me and my wife.
Just like Sarno & Schechter have people who get better quickly (by reading ther book) EFT has "one minute wonders" that I have seen. But these case for TMS & EFT are the exception as we all know.
Peter, who is the TMS do who recommended EFT??
Dan |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 09:10:41
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quote:
It is designed to free your emotional issues and I see it as a complement to TMS therapy.
What does this even mean exactly? In other words, what is an emotional issue and how is it freed by means of EFT? |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 09:12:30
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If you believe the emofree website exists only to distribute the "free" workbook and not actually to sell stuff, then I think you are fooling yourself.
It is offensive to put EFT and TMS in the same sentence. TMS is not a technique. It is a diagnosis. It is a theory developed over 30+ years based on thousands of clinical cases.
If you believe EFT is a complement to TMS treatment than you may as well go for physical therapy and chiropractic treatments. Keep looking for answers, and you are simply distracting yourself further from the real work that is necessary to overcome TMS.
Please, let's end this discussion now and get back to true TMS topics. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 10:40:00
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quote:
Please, let's end this discussion now and get back to true TMS topics.
Amen |
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n/a
560 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 15:41:54
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| Dr. Bernie Seigal in one of his books wrote that if someone comes to him using a method that is working for them he will never use his position as a doctor to shatter their confidence or faith in that method. But we, somehow, have no problem doing that at all. I find it so mean, just so utterly mean and I cannot put my finger on it. |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 23:32:17
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I've been reading the messages on this thread with a lot of interest.
Peter I think that EFT helped me enormously in the intial stages in my fight against TMS. What it did was that it allowed me to focus on the emotions which sarno believes are the cause of our pain. I stopped it and haven't used it for a very long time. When I was in a lot of pain and I couldn't focus on anything psychological, at that time the tapping took the edge off the pain and the verbal reaffirmations enabled me to think about my emotions and what was happening in my life. As I became more adept at finding and identifying the source of my pain and began dealing with it better emotionally, I found one day that I didn't need it anymore. It is a powerfull tool for recovery when used in conjunction with the tms diagnosis and I would never pooh pooh it. I didn't pay a single penny for anything. There is more than enough information on the website for you to glean what you need with reference to tms
Dave , EFT may seem as questionable to you as the idea of tms is to many people out there with pain. Just as others heve chosen to shun the idea of tms so have you also closed your mind to the possibility that there are many paths and ways of dealing with psychological and emotional issues. The fact that you could even want people here to end this discussion becoz it is not going the way you wanted is scary in that it reeks of censorship. No one here is saying that it isn't tms. We all acknowledge that. So what part of EFT is it that you find objectionable? If you are going to close the discussion could please at least be more specific?
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
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n/a
374 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2005 : 01:56:35
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I also have been reading this thread with interest and it's got me thinking about where someone should draw the line between the core treatment: ie - the understanding and acceptance of the concept of TMS and treatments used as an adjunct to this.
If something helps to overcome anxiety and irrational fear that so often accompanies the distressing physical symptoms of TMS; then can that ever be harmful? Meditation such as that outlined by Jon Kabut-Zinn or techniques to overcome fear described so well by the late Dr Claire Weekes don't, in my opinion, contradict or undermine the central premise of Dr Sarno's TMS in any way.
Where the water becomes a bit muddy in my mind is where a technique works as a distraction - for example autogenic training or the Alexander Technique which do not actually contradict TMS theory, but do keep a person focussed on the physical, even though their aim is to achieve whole body relaxation or whole body fitness.
Where a technique obliges a person to accept that something physical is the cause of their pain and needs to be fixed - such a chiropractic treatments, then obviously if a person continues with those, then they wont get better.
There can never be a one size fits all method of recovery - for me, anything that helped my brain to calm down was worth considering, but anything that undermined the idea that my back pain originated in my brain was not. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2005 : 07:59:51
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quote:
Originally posted by mala
So what part of EFT is it that you find objectionable? If you are going to close the discussion could please at least be more specific?
I do not necessarily find the whole idea of EFT "objectionable."
Personally, I don't believe the "gimmicks" of EFT and similar techniques have any merit. Show me a doctor who has used EFT for 30 years on over 10,000 patients with documented success and then maybe you will change my mind.
Personally, I believe if EFT is successful it is due to the skill of the practitioner as a psychotherapist, not the gimmick. It is also possible the gimmick provides some kind of placebo effect.
These are my opinions. As for EFT as a topic of discussion, I do not believe it is relevant to TMS. I believe that if one pursues EFT and other similar techniques in an effort to cure their TMS then they are missing the point of Dr. Sarno's work. Recovery from TMS requires no special techniques.
If EFT works for you, that's great. Many people say the same thing about chiropractic, but those who truly believe in TMS accept that chiropractic treatment is ineffective. There are hundreds of other techniques that may provide temporary relief due to the placebo effect.
My main objection to this thread is advertising of the 'emofree' website. This website is not a public service that exists to distribute 'free' information. It is a marketing website to sell books and videos and to promote doctors. If you don't believe that then you are fooling yourself. This forum does not permit advertising or promotion, and therefore I do not appreciate links to such websites.
As for "censorship" let's not forget that this is not a public forum. It is a moderated discussion group. It exists for the purpose of discussing TMS and it is up to the moderator's discretion to decide which topics are valid for discussion. Those who wish to carry on discussions beyond the scope of this forum are free to seek out other websites. |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2005 : 09:09:51
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Anthony Robbins(everybody cringes)
Once gave a seminar entitled "why all therapies work sometimes".In it,he discussed a doctor using a 'tapping technique' in which he could un-program negative associations from a persons brain,i.e. irrational fears,phobias,smoking.
He had 2 people from the audience come up...one with a fear of Ladders(a woman) the other with a fear of snakes.The woman conquered her fear on camera,but much to the Doctors dismay,the snake-phobic did not.
The woman was elated as 'her husband had promised her a shopping spree if she could climb the ladder,while the snake-o-phobe said "well...I guess I don't WANT to be OK with snakes"
This would all be well explained by Motivation and Placebo.There was nothing 'new' that the Doctor was doing.
Many times in therapy while in the throes of TMS I THOUGHT I was recovering,always to have a worse relapse of pain.Having been pain free for going on 7 years,I can assure you that TMS is NO placebo.
Many,many new techniques come out every year to treat a multitude of maladies.....and just as many go by the wayside.
Dave is spot on.....
Baseball65 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2005 : 09:31:48
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The fact is, I could say to a thousand people that I have this new technique to cure illness by rubbing their belly in a circular fashion in order to say, "strengthen their core energy field."
It's utter gibberish, but if I'm convincing a surprising number will report improvement or "cure." For some, this will be a placebo effect. Others were just due to get better any way, because whatever it was that had been bothering them was healing.
I can set up a website, fill it with testimonials, and I'm off and running.
The beauty of TMS is that it requires no outside agent, no techniques, no systems, no "laying on of hands," no nothing.
You don't even need to buy a book. There's plenty of totally free info on the Internet.
I agree with Dave that those who are using this as some sort of adjunct treament for TMS are missing the point.
It has always seemed to me that believing in just about evrything is tantamount to believing in nothing.
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TMS Doc recommendeds EMDR and EFT
