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n/a
560 Posts |
 Posted - 09/16/2005 : 18:22:35
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quote:
Originally posted by art
The beauty of TMS is that it requires no outside agent, no techniques, no systems, no "laying on of hands," no nothing.
You don't even need to buy a book. There's plenty of totally free info on the Internet.
This is not true for everyone. Sometimes, in fact many times, people with TMS DO require an outside agent and the adoption of some kind of concrete psyhcological method to get in touch with their feelings. That is exactly why many of us are in psychotherapy, and are $pending a bundle of money too. There are those who recover after reading Dr. Sarno's excellent books (I have read them both at least 10 times) and a few weeks of mental work, then there are the rest of us who do not find that is enough. Telling people to "think psychologically" is quite easy to say, and it is sound advice, but when one is in extreme pain and it does not go away they have to be offered more than that. They need a method or a concrete strategy which will help them accomplish this goal. Not everyone who is not Dr. Sarno are dishonest (I am sure Dr. Sarno does not work and write books for free) and they too have their testimonials from recognized physicians. Surely this cannot be dismissed. If these methods are helping people connect with their inner self in order to find the source of their pain then I think we should no knock it. There may be some who wants to wait for the 10,000 recovered patients before being convinced, but some people are not willing to wait that long because they are suffering.
All of us here (I think) are in agreement with the TMS diagnosis and that it is necessary to look at past traumas, current stressors, and personality types and how these impact on our inner child and inner parent to bring about a recovery. But, as I stated, some of us need a systematic method on how to accomplish this. EMDR and EFT, recommended by at least one TMS doctor, may be good for some of us but not all. I personally find reading some good pyschological books, meditating and journaling to be the most effective, but even with all that I am still in pain. I also I am going to a pshycotherapist every week. I am sure you will excuse me, and others in my position, if we want to try to find a method that works for us while not going outside the TMS diagnosis.
I guess I was the one who started this thread and I do apologize if I have caused a disruption. I am reading way outside the TMS literature with such writes as Nathaniel Branden and Byron Katie, to name but two authors, to help me get in touch with my feelings. They say nothing about TMS, but their work is valid for those who have this horrid condition as it helps them travel the road of self discovery. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2005 : 19:28:07
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quote:
I am sure you will excuse me, and others in my position, if we want to try to find a method that works for us while not going outside the TMS diagnosis
I have absolutely no problem with any of that. The truth is it's none of my business. I'm simply giving my personal opinion within the context of the TMS forum.
As well, it's very rare for anyone to actually change their minds about this kind of thing. Really, that's pretty much of a given. It's like a political discussion. I doubt whether in the entire history of political debate one side has said to the other. "Wow, you know what? I see the light now. You are absolutely right. How could I have been so blind?"
BY the same token, I'll simply never understand how it is that some can't see through this stuff. BUt of course, they no doubt are saying precisely the same thing about me.
I posted something from the EFT website that to my mind conclusively demonstrated a policy of greed and dishonesty amongst the practitioners, but not a one of the supporters of EFT gave it as much as a second glance, all of which goes to show that the human mind has within it an apparently infinite capacity for ignoring all those facts that might threaten some closely held belief. The standard gambit is either to distort them or deny them..
It has always depressed me slightly that insofar as human belief systems are concerned, it's not the pursuit of objective truth that matters nearly so much as subjective need.
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Edited by - art on 09/16/2005 19:30:47 |
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HilaryN
United Kingdom
879 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2005 : 17:21:18
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quote:
(art) The beauty of TMS is that it requires no outside agent, no techniques, no systems, no "laying on of hands," no nothing.
Definitely not true for me. I gave up early on because I was on my own with no-one to give me guidance. It was only because of an “outside agent” that I came back to trying TMS and was eventually successful. Even then it was hard – no access to a TMS doc or psychotherapist.
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(Peter) I guess I was the one who started this thread and I do apologize if I have caused a disruption.
I’ve found the thread very interesting, so I’m glad you did.
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(Dave) As for "censorship" let's not forget that this is not a public forum. It is a moderated discussion group. It exists for the purpose of discussing TMS and it is up to the moderator's discretion to decide which topics are valid for discussion. Those who wish to carry on discussions beyond the scope of this forum are free to seek out other websites.
Do you know of any? I’d be interested.
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2005 : 17:43:21
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quote:
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quote:
(art) The beauty of TMS is that it requires no outside agent, no techniques, no systems, no "laying on of hands," no nothing.
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Hilary wrote quote:
:Definitely not true for me. I gave up early on because I was on my own with no-one to give me guidance. It was only because of an “outside agent” that I came back to trying TMS and was eventually successful. Even then it was hard – no access to a TMS doc or psychotherapist.
My point is that there's nothing about TMS treatment inherently requiring an outside agent. True, some need help to find their way. But unlike these other techniques that require some sort of "professional" and of course costly laying on of hands, the TMS cure is to be found largely within ourselves.
I'm not sure why that isn't clear. It's an extremely empowering and liberating concept as far as I'm concerned. Were I able to get back just half the money I've spent on quack cures in my life, I'd probably have enough to sail around the world if I wanted.
I'm also not sure why this has become such a big deal to me, so I think from now on I'll move to the sidelines and read what if anything others have to say.
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2005 : 19:24:48
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"If EFT works for you, that's great. Many people say the same thing about chiropractic, but those who truly believe in TMS accept that chiropractic treatment is ineffective. There are hundreds of other techniques that may provide temporary relief due to the placebo effect."
There is a huge difference here. Chiropractice keeps one focused on the physical always, whereas if you really spend some time reading about EFT you will know that it focuses on emotions and requires that you deal with emotional issues to resolve physical pain.
"My main objection to this thread is advertising of the 'emofree' website. This website is not a public service that exists to distribute 'free' information. It is a marketing website to sell books and videos and to promote doctors. If you don't believe that then you are fooling yourself. This forum does not permit advertising or promotion, and therefore I do not appreciate links to such websites."
Oh, and links on this site don't do exactly the same thing ??? Do doctors like Scheceter, Angelou, Sopher treat people for free just coz it's tms? Marc Sopher is trying to sell his book on line, Scehecter on his main home page advertises like crazy trying to sell his workbook, videos and CDs. In fact he also advertises that he will treat patients long distance if they first send him a cheque.
"I believe that if one pursues EFT and other similar techniques in an effort to cure their TMS then they are missing the point of Dr. Sarno's work. Recovery from TMS requires no special techniques"
Recovery from TMS requires no special techniques. What do you mean? Sarno in his lectures and books tells us how to deal with tms and those are techniques aren't they? Eg. 'Think psychological, not physical' is a technique that we all use and there are lists of more . Because Sarno himeself is still discovering more about tms (and he admits that there are a lot of things he still doesn't completely understand about it) each one of us has to find our own techniques and as long as they comply with the idea of tms, discussion should be encouraged not discouraged. Like Peter, it was my psychotherapist who first encouraged me to try EFT when I went to see her on Sarno's recommendation. I used it as a tool to tms recovery.
Let's all encourage sensible discussion here and open up more possibilities for people to recover from pain for ultimately that is the main goal isn't it.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
Edited by - mala on 09/17/2005 19:27:07 |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2005 : 08:36:52
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quote:
Originally posted by mala
There is a huge difference here. Chiropractice keeps one focused on the physical always, whereas if you really spend some time reading about EFT you will know that it focuses on emotions and requires that you deal with emotional issues to resolve physical pain.
So does psychotherapy. My point is that the same result can be achieved without the tapping technique.
quote:
Oh, and links on this site don't do exactly the same thing ??? Do doctors like Scheceter, Angelou, Sopher treat people for free just coz it's tms? Marc Sopher is trying to sell his book on line, Scehecter on his main home page advertises like crazy trying to sell his workbook, videos and CDs. In fact he also advertises that he will treat patients long distance if they first send him a cheque.
These doctors treat TMS and they have a track record. They are not selling some pseudo-scientific technique.quote:
Recovery from TMS requires no special techniques. What do you mean? Sarno in his lectures and books tells us how to deal with tms and those are techniques aren't they?
I should have said physical techniques.quote:
Let's all encourage sensible discussion here and open up more possibilities for people to recover from pain for ultimately that is the main goal isn't it.
Absolutely. And that's my point. Pursue pseudo-science like EFT, or do the work to recover from TMS. It's your choice.
As moderator I do not wish this board to go down the path of discussing every new unproven questionable technique that may or may not help us get in touch with emotions, that may or may not help TMS. |
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floorten
United Kingdom
120 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2006 : 14:58:21
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Dave, my 0.02 ...
Whatever your misgivings may be about the relevance and efficacy of EFT in healing those diagnosed TMS, I can't agree with your assumption that the EFT website is a primarily moneymaking endeavour.
The DVD sets sold on their site are sold at pretty much their cost of production (around $4.50 each!) and everyone is allowed and encourage to make as many (non-profit) copies for other people as they wish. If this is moneymaking, then it's a pretty poor way to set about it!
I hope this light can at least remove that objection :-)
On to the other issue...
I personally have felt some subjective benefit from using EFT in the past and will experimenting in incorporating this into my program of getting in touch with the unconscious rage, as I progress with reprogramming my mind according to the TMS diagnosis.
I see it as serving the same purpose to TMS as psychoanalysis, which is accepted as effective for a percentage of the TMS-diagnosed. In that way, to me it could be relevant to the discussion, depending on your beliefs.
However, the models of how EFT and Psychoanalysis work aren't compatible, agreed.
EFT is all about freeing the "chi" energies bound up inside with unconscious rage and other emotions. If you don't believe such energies exist, then it clearly isn't for you!
I don't see this should discourage those inclined to do so to attempt their own bridge between these two. I think it would be beneficial to some of us if we were free to discuss these attempts here too.
As the moderator here, you have the last word on whether that is acceptable or not.
Cheers,
Greg.
"What the Thinker thinks, the Prover proves."
Robert Anton Wilson |
Edited by - floorten on 09/27/2006 15:11:58 |
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molomaf
119 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2006 : 09:25:54
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I just learned a variation of EFT from a mindbody healer. She calls it natural bio-destressing and she says it is based on EFT. So therefore, I will call it EFT for the sake of this discussion(By the way, she has told me to share my DVD with everyone).
I have done all that I can with TMS work and journaling and no longer have the horrendous back pain that I used to I thank Dr. Sarno for saving my life, but there are times that I need immediate stress relief and EFT does it in minutes. Whether it is a placebo or not, it works for me. I have found that when I am angry and am totally aware of my anger and I just cannot relax about it, the tapping is an incredible release for me. It is not medication, it works fast and it does not conflict with TMS at all. I am totally aware of what is going on. I know that I am angry and I have done the TMS work but when I can feel tense, EFT works quickly.
I have been able to release some of my phobic conditions because of EFT. I no longer have the anxiety about driving on the highway that I used to have. If that is a placebo, then that's fine with me.
Just like the critics of Dr. Sarno, there are critics of EFT. It cannot do any harm to add it as an adjunct to TMS work. I realize that opens the floodgates to all other sorts of healing techniques. But if we are on board with TMS and do the work, I don't see the harm in trying harmless, possible useful techniques for stress relief.
By the way, I go to a mindbody healer because I have two autoimmune skin disorders that have not been receptive to three plus years of psychotherapy and derms have nothing to offer me. This person is a PHD in biochemistry and immunology and totally believes in the unconscious mind creating disease.
Michele
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2006 : 11:08:23
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Well I might as well throw my 2cents in about this tappppppping business. (By the way it's interesting that my Dell laptop keyboard doesn't have a key for the "cents" symbol but the dollar symbol is still here; just a sign of inflation I guess and how little my two cents will be worth).
I remember in yoga class, the teacher introduced this tapping sequence out of the blue. I thought it was a waste of time and was cutting into my headstand time.
I don't know what it was supposed to do AND it didn't do anything for ME. The yoga teacher never explained, it or maybe I missed that class.
My conjecture is, that it serves a function similar to breathing deeply and counting to ten. It's a distraction to capture one's attention and take it somewhere else, away from the pain at hand.
In TMS work, it would be the equivalent of when the Good Doctor would stop his migraines by
SHIFTING his thoughts from the physical pain of a migraine. Instead, he would atop and ask himself, what is going on emotionaly. What was it that his mind was trying to repress, and prevent from erupting to the surface with inappropriate ANGER.
This tapping business serves the same purpose: to shift or derail the pain process. This shift in thinking, reduces the volume control of the pain, in the brain, to feeling the phyical tapping sensation. I'm sure tapping works for some, (at least for a while), and so does Voo-Doo. And also that obnoxious stuff you ROLL-ON for headaches--PLACEBO EFFECT.
In conclusion, you can turn down the volume of your pain by performing a primitive ritual like tapping or use TMS psychology techniques to shift your thinking to the REAL problems causing the psychosomatic pain.
You may find, the real-life emotional cause, and fix the problem, or just accept the problem, having discovered it's existence in the conscious mind. Or, as Dr. Sarno found sometimes, not be able to divine it--but dearail the pain process none the less.
The analogy would be to giving someone a fish, versus teaching someone to fish. The tapping is merely a non-sensical physical distraction, exchanging one physical sensation for another--while thinking TMS'ly, may really change someting for the better, in a long term context.
I agree with what Dave's thinking, "cures" performed by theraptists of various body-work modalities, such as accu, rolph, c-s, tap, hypno, colors, fung-shui, voo-doo, the gamut from a-z, is more dependent on the realationship between the patient and the therapist than the methods of the therapy.
With TMS you can be both the patient and the threapist and not be DEPENDENT on anyone else, having to pay the BIG BUCKS.
Just my 2cents.
By the way, what ever happpened to the Berkely tapper therapist who was here for a while, leaving her phone number as her salutation? I certainly hope I didn't chase her away with my last post to her. |
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TMS Doc recommendeds EMDR and EFT
