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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
 Posted - 05/18/2005 : 18:11:58
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Just wondering, with all the members on this forum, past and present, has it ever been mentioned or suggested or offered, that a TMS support group be started, in person, not on a web site? If you look at how 12 step programs started with AA, it began with one man back in the earlier part of the 1930's or near there, who decided that alcoholism was important enough of an epidemic to start a support group. Has anyone ever thought of starting a (physically convening) TMS support group to help us all and anyone else who is new to the diagnosis, to get help, convene, share experiences, help educate, spread the good news of Sarno's and others' work?
Just a thought. It seems like this board could go on forever but why come no support groups? Would Sarno endorse it? Would he stick his neck out far enough to support such an endeavor? I think it would be a priceless and eye-opening discussion group which could have universal appeal once it caught on. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2005 : 20:23:24
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Hi Mary,
I think this stuff would lend itself well to support/discussion groups...Someone could get up and maybe tell a TMS story for the newcomers and then you could throw the thing open to general discussion..sort of like AA in that respect, although probably all resemblance to 12 step groups would end there as they're founded on the notion of "powerlessness" and of course TMS is about regaining power and control of problems that were once thought to be beyond our control..Now that I think of it the precise opposite of the 12 step philosophy...
In any case, I think it's a great idea and I don't see how Sarno..though I've never met the man...would object...Though tough to say if he'd formally endorse something he's not directly connected with... |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2005 : 08:36:05
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| Sarno himself runs these types of groups every week for his patients. |
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hiffer
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2005 : 09:13:00
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| If there was an attempt to organize such a group in MA, I would be a willing participant. (Obviously I don't post, but I read this site every day and the insights have meant a lot to me.) |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2005 : 11:18:36
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I've often thought this would be good too. Anyone in Southern California interested?
Laura
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2005 : 12:09:46
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And there seem to be quite a few MA people on here.
I don't know, would it be ok to do this? I brought it up because I am interested in such a group. |
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2005 : 13:41:31
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Seems like a good idea. I've thought of this idea also but never followed through with it.
One of the things that seems weird for me right now is that i'm the only one in my support group that has repressed rage and is really getting it out in the group(occasionally). I might feel less inhibited in a setting where everyone there was in the same boat.
Dave- is it even possible to connect people up by region in this way? |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2005 : 16:37:05
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| I could write to Sarno and ask him if he would support such an endeavor. He may have strong feelings against groups running in his name and not having the professional TMS doctoral training to actually try to "help" others. There may be some legal implication for him, like say if some wacko rage-aholic mentally disturbed person tries to say they went to his support group and was encouraged to go home and "let off some steam" so he went and butchered his family in the name of TMS relief. I know that's far fetched, but sometimes there's legal liabilities that you'd never imagine just by pure wack jobs trying to sue for the almighty buck. Again, I could write to Sarno and ask. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2005 : 18:34:49
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Contacting Sarno is a good idea, Mary, but on the other hand there's no reason why people can't just get together of their own free will and talk about TMS issues...The point you make about the rage guy is a good one and for just that reason he might not want to be formally associated in any way..
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2005 : 19:24:17
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One of the potential pitfalls of such a group might be that it would become,as AA has become,nothing but a shadow of the original Idea.
AA was a book written on how to recover from alcoholism,rapid,thorough and quick...it was a specific guide book on exactly what steps needed to be taken to have a spiritual experience and solve your problem...Not unlike HBP.
Unfortunately it has become a "self help" group....you will here people in AA rattle off all sorts of ideas and advice that little resembles the intent of it's founders...stuff like "It's a selfish program"(wrong:it is an altruistic endeavor) and "just don't drink or use no matter what"(if you can do that,than you are not an alcoholic)...totally inconsistent with what it's founders intended.
If TMS became a group,I fear that people would come up with their own "programs" and cease to stick to the fundamentals....people would be given advice like "Just don't feel the pain no matter what" and the instructions that Sarno gives so succinctly in the book would be adhered to by only a small fraction of "weirdos" and "hardcores" who would eventually leave the group.
Also,Chiropractors and the like would eventually work their way in ,just as for profit "recovery" houses and hospitals have evolved into a multibillion dollar business...they would promote the idea that TMS is a long process and you are never fully recovered .Anybody who had a relatively short recovery period like me would be dismissed as a Freak,a fool and a sophomore.
I hope and pray that TMS NEVER becomes like AA....AA has a 3% success rate...Sarno has one somewhere in the high 90's....
sorry to sound so bleak,but that's what "people" do when they get a really simple beautiful idea....mess it up and complexify it.I think it's beautiful in it's text only form.
-out
Baseball65 |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2005 : 03:06:36
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Baseball,
I agree, you make a good point. Not sure what you mean about the chiros though. I do think people can stray from the original intent though. That is a definite risk. |
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miehnesor
USA
430 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2005 : 09:15:44
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Baseball- You make some excellent points on the subject and perhaps you are right that it wouldn't really be that helpful. What might be more helpful is for people to have access to TMS knowledgable therapists. I've been amazed at how TMS illiterate(sp) most therapists seem to be out there.
The group i'm in is helpful but sometimes I do feel a little like the odd man out because I seem to have very specific and unusual needs. |
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Jim D.
USA
63 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2005 : 10:10:01
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Baseball,
You said "AA has a 3% success rate." Is this true? I had the impression it was much more successful but never saw any figures to back up my impression.
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2005 : 11:38:32
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Hi Jim.
Do a search on Dr. Stanton Peele....he is a Psychiatrist who debunks the AA Myth.
The National Council on Alcoholism and Drug addiction does a lot of studies.Much of the result is concealed,because for the most part,it isn't supportive of the "recovery" industry which is a boondoggle for the medical profession(like TMS)
AA is a BOOK
What people CALL or REFER to as AA these days is a self-help group that is very,very ineffectual,but espouses so much "success" that the public has embraced it in spite of statistical findings.
The REAL AA had an almost perfect success rate.....that is,the people who DID THE WORK IN THE FIRST 164 PAGES OF THE BIG BOOK OF ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS!
That was why I was so vitriolic about TMS becoming a "group"....it's like the childrens game of telephone...by the time the message gets to the last person ,it little resembles the original message.
The first people who did the 'work' as it was called were fervently religious,fiery and devoted and had very powerful spiritual experiences....Nowadays you'll hear people talk about your 'higher power' being a light bulb or a fire hydrant....I can crush a light bulb,and I saw a dog peeing on a fire hydrant....better find god NOW or DIE was the original message.
The GROUP that now call itself AA(but doesn't do the work) would be laughed at as weak tea by the original men and women who wrote the book.......Like a chiropractor 20 years from now saying "Well what Sarno meant when he said resume all activity was 'resume all activity after your subluxations have subsided'"
I had/have friends who were true devotees to the fiery,frantic intense experience that was the original AA....they have all left for other spiritual pursuits.
THAT is why I fear for any TMS group...heck...read the post about the "TMS" doctor that's still up....the "TMS" docotr who is already saying "Well....not everything Sarno says is really TMS"
all messages eventually get watered down....people who adhere to them are called zealots or fanatics and are dirven out of their own groups.
pray for us now and in the hour of our death
Baseball65 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2005 : 12:48:57
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Well written and provocative (in a good way) post baseball...
Speaking for myself only, AA saved my life...I have many friends who would say the same thing..
I take your point about the way original messages inevitably get watered down...What I'm missing is the connection between AA and TMS...After all, aren't we just talking about a few people getting together to share information and offer support to one another?
I can't see what would be wrong with that...
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2005 : 15:48:17
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Baseball,
What did you mean about the chiros and other docs trying to wedge their way in and make a profit? That was the only piece I didn't follow. |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2005 : 19:55:17
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Mary..
it is analgous to the influx of "for profit" alleged 12 step compatible helpers.Examples would be "chemical dependency counselours" and medications (anti-depressants,anti-psychotics,etc.)..basically all people who make a living leeching off of supposed 12 step mentality.
The last time I got strung,I was sent to an "intensive outpatient" program...there was AA literature everywhere,meetings and counseling...ALL FOR MONEY...this viloates the tradition that aa should remain forever self supporting and non professional.
Like I said...it has become a self help group....people try to ADD stuff to what was already a comprehensive program....sexual abuse survivors? There is a sex and resentment portion in the inventory....
The new CW from the pscyhopharmaceutical profiteers is that chemically dependent people are reall just 'self medicating' and that the true problem is a chemical imbalance...how convenient...why go to AA at all?? Just eat your prozac and go about your day..
If chemical imbalance is your problem,you should go to CIA(chem-imbalance anonymous...where you turn your will and your life over to the pharmaceutical powers as you understand them...No need for God here...
The book clearly states in chapter four...."Faced by a self imposed crisis which we could neither postpone or evade,we had to confront the Idea of god...God was either everything or nothing...what was our choice to be?"
If god is everything than he's more powerful than a light bulb,a fire hydrant or Novartus and prozac.
Alcoholism as a disease has made Millions in the medical industry....if it is "moral psychology" as Dr. Willliam silkworth stated,than his admission of their recovery being "outside the scope of the power of modern medicine" made in 1935 is being hotly contested by the Drug manufacturers now....
AA is a book.......the people who go would be well served by reading their own book.
I was cheeky enough to read the bible several times,cover to cover before I ever walked in a church....and that is why I have walked out of so many.I also read the AA big books first 164(the rest is just BS supporting stories) and done 11 of the 12 steps completely and thoroughly...and no longer waste time going.I would try to discuss spiritual growth,and people would talk about their day...
I have plenty of people to listen to whine....I don't need to go looking for more.
-out
Baseball65 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2005 : 20:23:10
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I also read the AA big books first 164(the rest is just BS supporting stories)
We're all very different people obviously and bring our own problems, personalities, biases etc..
I just can't resist responding to the above...I loved those stories..Not great literature, but timeless classics in their way...Those 1930's style drunks who when you strip away all the trappings of modern times are just like us...And yet, there's also a certain very appealing "politeness" for some reason is the word that jumps into my head...a certain civility which is sadly missing these days...When I first got to AA I read those stories over and over. It's been years and I still remember them...
Say what you will about AA, it has helped an awful lot of people. Certainly, people always fall short of principals and ideals..But the ideals live on...
I find it very interesting that you stopped at Step 11...some might argue that the 12th is the most important step of all...
I'm not trying ot be argumentative, and I know it's off topic, but this is a subject near and dear to my heart..
Incidentally, I agree, anyone selling AA literature should be flogged |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2006 : 07:29:54
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| Read thread a few up from this one about one we had last summer in Boston. It's titled "group meetings" |
Edited by - marytabby on 07/09/2006 07:30:24 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2006 : 08:27:31
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Group TMS meetings are an excellent idea.
Sarno holds group meetings.
I attended group meetings, held by Dr. Bruce Eisendorf, in Santa Cruz, CA., held in a conference room, at the hospital he works at.
It's a lot cheaper than paying $150 per therapy session and you can meet new friends.
Just Do It ! |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2006 : 09:34:30
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I'm not a group kind of guy and probably wouldn't attend...But just speaking for those who might be interested, the idea of group TMS meetings seems like such a good idea I'm not sure why the thread died out...
I just don't see the downside... |
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TMS support group?
