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art
1903 Posts |
 Posted - 07/07/2006 : 14:38:49
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I have a friend who's suffered the trials of hell due to CFS...She's a beautiful, sensitive woman who I suspect was somehow traumatized as a young girl...
I'd like to help her if I can. I spoke with her last night via e-mail and it turns out she's very open to looking at her illness as psychosomatic...
Other than recommending this forum, and Sarno's books, does anyone have any ideas? Although it seems we've had seom fibro people improve here, I haven't seen any CF sufferers I don't think....
BY the way, speaking of Fibromyalgia, could someone remind of the title of that book that's often recommended here, by Nancy someone I think
Many thanks,,, |
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miche
Canada
283 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2006 : 21:22:34
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| ART, the name of the book is " Freedom from fibromyalgia" by Nancy Selfridge MD. Micheline |
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miche
Canada
283 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2006 : 21:29:45
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| ART, the name of the book is " Freedom from fibromyalgia" by Nancy Selfridge MD. Micheline |
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miche
Canada
283 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2006 : 21:41:13
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| Art, my cousin 's daughter has suffered from chronic fatigue for the last two years, she is a nurse by profession and has had to move back with her parents due to her deteriorating condition, she also is a beautiful caring person who has done the round of doctors and specialists, last I heard she was going to Toronto where she was told that they could help her, I can try to contact her and get more details if you like, maybe she would agree to correspond with your friend, just a thought, I don't know if you resides in Canada or not, let me know what you think. Micheline Sorry for the double response |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2006 : 02:14:35
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Hi MIche,
I'll shoot you an e-mail... |
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PeterW
Canada
102 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2006 : 09:08:45
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Hi Art, check out CFS/ME thread from a few months ago. A lot of discussion on this topic.
http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1481&whichpage=1
I'll add that my own views have evolved some since writing my parts of that thread. I'm much closer to CFS being primarily a mindbody disorder, albeit a very severe and complex one, brutally real and awfully tough to crack. I remember seeing a medical paper once that described the level of functioning in severe CFS cases as being lower than dying AIDS patients. That may sound hard to believe, but it can be that bad.
A lot of work is being done with CFS from a mindbody perspective in the UK, with Reverse Therapy and Mickel Reverse Therapy. These are approaches that have considerable parallels with Sarno/TMS approach, but use different language and frames of reference, and are specifically tailored to CFS/ME/Fibro. I first heard of them in the above thread. I believe they have a real good grip on what is going on with CFS. I have recently witnessed a close friend with CFS fly to the UK for Mickel Reverse therapy and her improvement is stunning.
http://www.mickeltherapy.com/
The big downside is that you have to see or at least correspond with a practitioner for this work, and most of the practitioners are in the UK. Plus it costs. On the othert sure wouldn't hurt your friend to follow the treatment section in Freedom from Fibromyalgia, or Sarno's new book The Divided Mind, much cheaper and more accessible. One thing I like in this new book is that Sarno is really clear about allowing the symptoms to ease before increasing activity. Challenging severe CFS symptoms can be disastrous.
In my opinion all these approaches are addressing the same divided mind in conflict thing, though their tool boxes may differ to some degree.
Full blown CFS truely is hell. Having been there, I empathise with your friend. I wish her the best.
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2006 : 11:52:24
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quote:
Originally posted by art
Peter,
Thanks so much for this...Just the kind of thing I'm looking for...I agree that CFS is psychosomatic, but terribly complex and difficult to get a foothold...I have no experience with this directly, but I do suffer from what I consider an analogous stress related illness...Food sensitivities to beat the band, terrible headaches, much weakness and fatigue, and extreme hypoglycemia...
I'm, a thousand times better than I was (now using the TMS model) though not "cured " yet...These illnesses just do not go away by the same simple thought processes that work so well for graden variety TMS...I'm also very impressed that much good work along these lines has been done with fibromyalgia...
She currently undergoing treatment in Switzerland I think it is...Something called "psychosomatic energetics" which I think utilizes homeopathics (don't believe in them) to "clear" "emotional blockages"...Do you know anything about this treatment? She did have some success, but then she relapsed, so my thinking is that it was a placebo effect...But at least they're thinking in psychosomatic terms...And for all I know it works...If it does, I don't want to complicate things any more for her than I already have...
Many thanks again,
A.
quote:
Originally posted by PeterW
Hi Art, check out CFS/ME thread from a few months ago. A lot of discussion on this topic.
http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1481&whichpage=1
I'll add that my own views have evolved some since writing my parts of that thread. I'm much closer to CFS being primarily a mindbody disorder, albeit a very severe and complex one, brutally real and awfully tough to crack. I remember seeing a medical paper once that described the level of functioning in severe CFS cases as being lower than dying AIDS patients. That may sound hard to believe, but it can be that bad.
A lot of work is being done with CFS from a mindbody perspective in the UK, with Reverse Therapy and Mickel Reverse Therapy. These are approaches that have considerable parallels with Sarno/TMS approach, but use different language and frames of reference, and are specifically tailored to CFS/ME/Fibro. I first heard of them in the above thread. I believe they have a real good grip on what is going on with CFS. I have recently witnessed a close friend with CFS fly to the UK for Mickel Reverse therapy and her improvement is stunning.
http://www.mickeltherapy.com/
The big downside is that you have to see or at least correspond with a practitioner for this work, and most of the practitioners are in the UK. Plus it costs. On the othert sure wouldn't hurt your friend to follow the treatment section in Freedom from Fibromyalgia, or Sarno's new book The Divided Mind, much cheaper and more accessible. One thing I like in this new book is that Sarno is really clear about allowing the symptoms to ease before increasing activity. Challenging severe CFS symptoms can be disastrous.
In my opinion all these approaches are addressing the same divided mind in conflict thing, though their tool boxes may differ to some degree.
Full blown CFS truely is hell. Having been there, I empathise with your friend. I wish her the best.
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Susie
USA
319 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2006 : 12:10:09
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| Art, I had cfs about 8 years ago in a very bad bout of tms. Of course, I didn't know I had tms. It was horrible and the symptoms lasted about a year. I firmly believe it's a tms symptom and should be treated as such. |
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PeterW
Canada
102 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2006 : 12:55:12
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Art,
Never heard of "psychosomatic energetics" from Switzerland. I know a lot of innovative treatments for various things do come out of Europe, but I'm with you on anything that uses homeopathics. My own experiences might cloud my judgement, but I've never in all my years taken a homeopathic that really did anything that I could notice, and for awhile I was really trying. CFS can push one to desperation. Still, if it ends out working for her, then great.
Is she actually open to looking for therapies at this point, or satisfied with her present course? Both the Mickel Therapy and Reverse Therapy have books out which she could read before trying anything, to see if they resonate. Apparently the doctors who started them used to work together, but had a falling out and have gone their separate ways. I have looked into them a fair bit and could give you or her more info if you wanted.
I used to suffer from hypoglycemia badly and food sensitivities to a lesser degree years ago with the CFS. In the end I cut way down on sugar and carbohydrate consumption and it pretty much disappeared. This was years ago. It's not the way Sarno would have tackled it, but it no longer really worries me. I'm one who believes that for the really heavy stuff it is sometimes necessary to treat from the symptom end as well as the emotional end, especially if the symptoms are making you completely dysfunctional and aren't going away like your 'garden variety TMS' does. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2006 : 14:33:24
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Hi Pete,
She is open to looking at things yes, but she's got a lot invested in her current course of treatment...emotionally, financially, etc. so I think that has to play itself out...I told her that in my opoinion the homeo's were probably a placebo, but on the other hand, the last thing I want is to rain on her parade and when you get right down to it, to a certain extanet none of us really knows for sure what the hell is going on with some of this stuff...
I suggested the standard books re TMS, mentioned this forum etc...I don't want to "sell" anything to hard...we all have to find our own way
But the fact that she actually had substantial improvement for a couple of weeks is remarkable and wildly encouraging, either way really...She's been quite sick for years..
If it's only a placebo effect she's still been given the tremendously valuable insight into the crucial role emotions play in her illness, thus laying a good foundation for a more TMS-like approach...ON the other hand, if it's actually a direct effect of the treatment, that's great too...
I agree with you re symptom treatment in some of these "equivalent" situations...So for example, while I'm buying the whole TMS idea, I treat the hypo by fasting for half the day...I began to think that there had to be an answer to that stuff, a way to get off the treadmill of constant eating, and decided that since I'd tried evrything else, it was time to go the "counter-intuitive" route....hence the fasting...It's been very helpful re the constant hunger..
I think that many of us with severe "undiagnosed" illness, have to use what's available to us...Sitting around journaling all day, as valuable as that might be, was not going to be enough for me.. |
Edited by - art on 07/08/2006 14:36:16 |
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PeterW
Canada
102 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2006 : 18:04:04
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Hey Art,
Yes I agree she has to find her own way, and it wont do much good to sell or push this stuff at her . . hell I wouldn't have been ready to hear it years ago, and was just starting to listen this time last year. And I'm still struggling with acceptance on some levels.
When I first heard of Reverse Therapy, I immediately emailed two good friends who have suffered with CFS for years and told them about it. One had an 'Oh my God THIS IS IT!" moment, found a therapist, and now enjoys the best health she's had in years. The other pretty much hurled a few expletives at me with the 'How do you expect people to take us seriously with that nonsense' attitude. The years of noone believing them and having labels thrown at them unfortunately can make many CFS patients react with real anger at anything hinting of psychology as the cause. Plus the physical changes are real and measurable. Plus after trying so many things that dont really work, they almost get afraid to hope. It's not, as many laymen observers like to believe, that the patients dont want to get better. A lot of the time they just get burned out by so many promises of help that never really help in the end.
I notice in The Divided Mind Sarno now has Chronic Fatigue Syndrome classified under 'Disorders produced by the neuroendocrine-peptide system' so I'd guess his thinking is still evolving some on this one. I'd probably call it the Mother of all TMS equivalents . . ; - )
I actually was reading Sarno before the Reverse therapy, and at the time was having a tough time fully accepting TMS. Oddly, reading the Reverse and Mickel stuff, even though it is quite different from TMS theory in some regards, helped a lot with my acceptance of the conflict between the concious and the unconcious (or in Reverse language egomind and bodymind) being the root cause of all this stuff.
Fasting for hypoglycemia. That certainly is counterintuitive - not what they recommend. Maybe that's why it worked?? : )
Actually makes sense in a way, stop consuming food and that stops the rapid rises in blood sugar, which then stops the insulin merry-go-round. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2006 : 00:54:37
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| Dr. Sarno discusses chronic fatigue, (neurasthenia), starting on page 28 in THE DIVIDED MIND. |
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Any chronic fatiguers out there?
