| Author |
 Topic  |
|
bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
 Posted - 05/21/2013 : 12:56:29
|
Greetings all...
Hope everyone has been well. I've been continuing to improve and hence not around here as much. But, I did stop in to have a look recently and saw something that made me very happy.
Old forum member Hillbilly has finally written up his story. Those who have been around a while know him well. But, it's for the newer around here I'm posting a link to his post.
I'd venture to say that Hillbilly has helped more people recover on and off of this forum than any other poster. He'd hate me saying all of this, but he is an extremely charitable guy who has helped so many people out of nervous illness (TMS) .... and refuses anything in return.
In fact, he's cited the need for compensation as a primary reason so many people stay sick when working with "professionals." But, I digress.
Hillbilly passes the eye-test, so to speak. Meaning, you can gauge the validity of what he's teaching on the results. Scores of people around here know this to be true, and you'll find his name all over the success stories in the Success Forum. Of course, what he's helping us understand is not new. Just like what Sarno teaches is basically just minor tweaks to existing theories put forth by people like Low, Weekes, etc.
I know he's moved on from the forum and has a busy life, but hopefully his posts will live on around here. I was lucky enough to have a few conversations with him... and I attribute much of the success I've had in improving to those talks. (Given, I'm work in progress and not a success story just yet. )
In any case, thanks to him... and I highly recommend you have a look if you haven't seen his story yet. It's so common, and so enlightening. I wonder how much time we all could have saved in our struggles had we run across someone like him earlier...
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8511
|
Edited by - bryan3000 on 05/21/2013 12:59:17 |
|
|
Sylvia
199 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2013 : 13:46:33
|
Oh My God, I would have never known if you didn't make this post.
What can I say. Hillbilly is The Master!
|
 |
|
|
bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2013 : 13:48:43
|
| That's what I was thinking, Sylvia. Hillbilly is not one to create a thread about himself... so I did it for him, like it or not. :) |
|
|
|
tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2013 : 14:25:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by bryan3000
...what Sarno teaches is basically just minor tweaks to existing theories put forth by people like Low, Weekes, etc.
How nice of you to stop by and leave that back-handed complement to the Good Doctor at a forum dedicated to him.
Cheers,
tt/lsmft
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
"...the human emotional system was not designed to endure the mental rigors of a tennis match." Dr. Allen Fox
======================================================
"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod =================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
|
|
|
maccafan
130 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2013 : 15:14:50
|
I agree with you TT and the part about compensation was weird too. Here he goes again.
MACCAFAN |
|
|
|
bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2013 : 18:04:45
|
He's also offered to answer questions which I recommend all new to his posts act upon.
Good luck everyone.
Best of healing.
Just a bump for the new posters. Great to see the responses from those who weren't lucky enough to be here when he was around. |
Edited by - bryan3000 on 05/24/2013 13:15:39 |
|
|
|
Back2-It
USA
438 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2013 : 15:35:27
|
quote:
Of course, what he's helping us understand is not new. Just like what Sarno teaches is basically just minor tweaks to existing theories put forth by people like Low, Weekes, etc.
I have to interject here about just what I thought Dr. Sarno was doing. I could be wrong; it wouldn't be the first time today.  Here is the main difference between Dr. Sarno and Doctors Low and Weekes and others: Dr. Sarno takes aim at the number one crippling problem in the US and Western world today, and that is chronic back pain. I have read Low and Weekes and have gotten some out of each, but what Dr. Sarno does is give clarity to those who are suffering with back pain that is magnified in perceived and actual intensity by modern imaging. In my reading of HBP and MBP it is clear to me that Sarno is talking about what causes this pain, and it is fear. He has his own theory on what causes the fear, which is Freudian in nature, and what is possibly causing the pain --reduced blood flow to muscles, nerves and tendons. His bottom line, no matter if you buy Freud or not, or reduced blood flow or not, is to resume your life and overcome your fear. I do not think he lays a template down and says it is the only way to heal. In fact, he is very vague on getting out of the mess, it would seem to some, unless you read between the lines and read closely. To me, both books are a form of CBT of a sort. Another factor which is important is the years of clinical experience Dr. Sarno pulled. He was the mechanic that could tell if the body was in tune by listening and lifting the hood and getty messy.
In reading the majority of the healings, including mine, I will have to say that emotions did play a role in the pain and the restructuring of thoughts about them a role in the "cure".
Read carefully the cures on even this forum. Yes, cognitive actions and learning to think different may have been at the heart of starting a cure, but once the surface gets scratched then there is an entire sinkhole of the past shrieking to be recognized or exorcised or calmed or filled. When healing comes for many, there is often a relationship change, a career change, a family change or similar. These changes are made because of an examination by the person in pain and relating the current stress to past stress, in my opinion. Was the case for me.
Without an explanation about the spine, which was not presented in any other book that I read, Weeks, Low, Hayes, Tolle, others, would mean nothing. I would be frozen in fear with the image of my T -7/8 herniation branded across my mind's eye for ever.
It is time to recognize that each individual has to find their own path to healing, and it can include very messy emotions or straight out CBT exercises, or both. Or none. When people come to this forum for the first time they are often scared to death and at the end of their ropes, and this may be the only source of MB info they can afford or use. Leaving oneself open to the possibilities is what helps thinking, and because it is our minds that got us to this point, we cannot afford to close the gate on any one idea or path. We are not clones.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
|
|
|
bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2013 : 16:17:31
|
Great post, Back2It and let me clarify what I meant a bit....
I never implied that emotions were not part of healing. Good god, emotions are at the center of almost everything we do. I also certainly understand that Sarno took particular aim at anxiety manifested as back symptoms. But, he also makes it very clear that back problems were sort of the issue du jour, and that he just happened to have a deep working knowledge of structural issues... so much so that he was able to identify that a bulging disk was not the cause of pain... rather, anxiety and emotional trauma of a given sort.
Weekes also talked about "the apparent insoluble problem" as a great source of anxiety for many, which often required help from a mentor, therapist, minister, etc. (Yes, minister... keep in mind the times in which she lived and how ahead of her time she was.)
So, while Weekes certainly focuses on a "now what" approach to healing, never does she discount the role emotions and life situations play in getting us there.
I think my larger point was in total agreement with you... that this notion that we all have to walk here as TMS zombies, chanting and reciting Sarno's mantras is nonsense. Even at this very forum, I still continue to read more success stories from people who used Sarno's theories as a PART of their healing, not the whole thing... than those who had a "book cure" or uncorked some reservoir of hidden rage and suddenly got better.
Moreover, you in essence listed the primary ingredient of your healing as truly realizing you were okay. That you didn't have a structural problem. I'd say that was the start of my healing as well. (Though you're much further along, of course.) So, therein lies my notion that while yes we can talk about hidden rage and journal... the core of his "now what" treatment was realizing you don't have a physical issue, getting back to life and losing fear. Those are all concepts that Dr. Sarno was far from the first to purvey. Does that make his work less valid?
Of course not. Expanding on an existing knowledge base has happened over the course of human history and many great men and women made their names this way. Sarno added his wrinkle to the psychology and physiology, and it was a crucial wrinkle. You're so right, people would have just never thought a back going out could be related to emotions/anxiety. Sarno's work was incredibly important. It's for that reason that so many of us who aren't Sarno "purists" stay around here to learn and help advance the understanding of MB conditions.
I think Hillbilly's posts and points are so well accepted and have helped to cure so many because they go beyond just the emotion. Frankly, we see a lot of people here continuing to talk about fearing their inner child, not stretching so they don't upset their brain, and a host of other fear-inducing concepts. (In my opinion.) Hillbilly recognized that the emotions came from thought largely, and were largely regulated by thought and behavior... at the end of the day. It gave people hope that they weren't at the mercy of some foreign entity that lived in their brain, plotting against them.
In total, I do agree with your larger point 100%, though. Mind/body issues are highly complex and journaling was useless for me, but well MAY be the key for others. We're all wired so differently. I think there are a few key points that Sarno, Weekes and others put forth that do apply to all of us though... once we've had enough, and are ready to heal.
|
|
|
|
tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2013 : 06:22:13
|
quote:
Originally posted by Back2-It
...His bottom line, no matter if you buy Freud or not, or reduced blood flow or not, is to resume your life and overcome your fear.
...I do not think he lays a template down and says it is the only way to heal.
...In fact, he is very vague on getting out of the mess, it would seem to some, unless you read between the lines and read closely. To me, both books are a form of CBT of a sort.
...Another factor which is important is the years of clinical experience Dr. Sarno pulled. He was the mechanic that could tell if the body was in tune by listening and lifting the hood and getty messy.
In reading the majority of the healings, including mine, I will have to say that emotions did play a role in the pain and the restructuring of thoughts about them a role in the "cure".
...Read carefully the cures on even this forum. Yes, cognitive actions and learning to think different may have been at the heart of starting a cure, but once the surface gets scratched then there is an entire sinkhole of the past shrieking to be recognized or exorcised or calmed or filled.
...When healing comes for many, there is often a relationship change, a career change, a family change or similar.
...These changes are made because of an examination by the person in pain and relating the current stress to past stress, in my opinion. Was the case for me.
...Without an explanation about the spine, which was not presented in any other book that I read, Weeks, Low, Hayes, Tolle, others, would mean nothing. I would be frozen in fear with the image of my T -7/8 herniation branded across my mind's eye for ever.
It is time to recognize that each individual has to find their own path to healing, and it can include very messy emotions or straight out CBT exercises, or both. Or none.
...When people come to this forum for the first time they are often scared to death and at the end of their ropes, and this may be the only source of MB info they can afford or use.
...Leaving oneself open to the possibilities is what helps thinking, and because it is our minds that got us to this point, we cannot afford to close the gate on any one idea or path. We are not clones.
Excellent points Back2-It! Another of the great contributions to psychosomatic medicine Dr. Sarno has given us is the idea that the symptom is a socially acceptable distraction from exhibiting the underlying socially unacceptable emotions--primarily RAGE. TMS is a PROTECTOR from feeling what is determined and FEARED by the subconscious--the more painful and frightening underlying emotions.
People exhibit nervousness or anxiety all the time, but socially compared to RAGE it's not that big a deal. Others just say about them, "Oh, aren't they the nervous type." They may smoke, drink alcohol, in Greece and the Middle-East fidgit with worry beads or spit sunflower seeds. Habits like those to quell anxiety are relatively socially acceptable. Although tobacco smokers are being ostracized, marijuana is taking it's place as a socially acceptable method of relieving anxiety/stress (BTW I'm totally opposed to this, give me a nice menthol Kool and a Margarita anytime, I can control that stuff, nicotine is a great relaxant but with pot I never know where that might take me and cosmic paranoia is more scary then arguing with my girlfriend). What those who keep harping on this anxiety thing don't get is that it's just another TMS symptom. Repressed RAGE is the biggy the Good Doctor says is what the TMS symptom is a cover for.
In our society you can be nervous and slightly annoying, not being able to focus in a conversation--mentally noisey--but if you express YOUR in the moment, true emotional PASSIONATE RAGE to your "loved ones", or others about politics, sex or religion, that will result in argument. This is not cool in our lock-step culture, divided over so many social issues. You will be labeled as angry and people will run away from you, or divorce you. So rather then reveal this rage, as the Good Doctor states in his theory, we stuff our emotions--suppressing them, biting our lips or unconsciously REPRESSING them into our RESERVOIRS OF RAGE, until they blow-up into a TMS socially acceptable symptom, such as the epidemic of back-pain, RSI, anxiety etc.
Cheers,
tt
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8D7w0IUIPU
|
Edited by - tennis tom on 05/25/2013 06:48:19 |
|
|
|
alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2013 : 12:30:38
|
quote:
TMS is a PROTECTOR
I buy all of Sarno's theory and what you wrote but this is where I have a problem. As an ex-mod of a symptom's forum, I came across 3 people that had all the signs of having TMS (pain vanishing mysteriously, emotional trauma etc...) but subsequently committed suicide. what kind of protection is that?
I know that the response is to not get hung-up on the details but it is pretty fundamental. |
|
|
|
gailnyc
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2013 : 12:37:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by Back2-It
I have to interject here about just what I thought Dr. Sarno was doing. I could be wrong; it wouldn't be the first time today. Here is the main difference between Dr. Sarno and Doctors Low and Weekes and others: Dr. Sarno takes aim at the number one crippling problem in the US and Western world today, and that is chronic back pain. I have read Low and Weekes and have gotten some out of each, but what Dr. Sarno does is give clarity to those who are suffering with back pain that is magnified in perceived and actual intensity by modern imaging. In my reading of HBP and MBP it is clear to me that Sarno is talking about what causes this pain, and it is fear. He has his own theory on what causes the fear, which is Freudian in nature, and what is possibly causing the pain --reduced blood flow to muscles, nerves and tendons. His bottom line, no matter if you buy Freud or not, or reduced blood flow or not, is to resume your life and overcome your fear. I do not think he lays a template down and says it is the only way to heal. In fact, he is very vague on getting out of the mess, it would seem to some, unless you read between the lines and read closely. To me, both books are a form of CBT of a sort. Another factor which is important is the years of clinical experience Dr. Sarno pulled. He was the mechanic that could tell if the body was in tune by listening and lifting the hood and getty messy.
In reading the majority of the healings, including mine, I will have to say that emotions did play a role in the pain and the restructuring of thoughts about them a role in the "cure".
Read carefully the cures on even this forum. Yes, cognitive actions and learning to think different may have been at the heart of starting a cure, but once the surface gets scratched then there is an entire sinkhole of the past shrieking to be recognized or exorcised or calmed or filled. When healing comes for many, there is often a relationship change, a career change, a family change or similar. These changes are made because of an examination by the person in pain and relating the current stress to past stress, in my opinion. Was the case for me.
Without an explanation about the spine, which was not presented in any other book that I read, Weeks, Low, Hayes, Tolle, others, would mean nothing. I would be frozen in fear with the image of my T -7/8 herniation branded across my mind's eye for ever.
It is time to recognize that each individual has to find their own path to healing, and it can include very messy emotions or straight out CBT exercises, or both. Or none. When people come to this forum for the first time they are often scared to death and at the end of their ropes, and this may be the only source of MB info they can afford or use. Leaving oneself open to the possibilities is what helps thinking, and because it is our minds that got us to this point, we cannot afford to close the gate on any one idea or path. We are not clones.
Great post, Back2-it.
For me, what Sarno did was point out that not just back pain but pretty much any kind of physical pain that doesn't have an acute cause can have a psychological cause.
Although Sarno stresses rage, my own bigger problem has been sadness. I had been trying to keep a tight lid on sadness, not even admitting to myself when I felt it, which turned it into anxiety, which eventually developed into physical symptoms. (It's possible that subconsciously the sadness is based on rage, I don't know. I haven't found it hugely helpful trying to guess at what's in my subconscious, anyway, and maybe I'll never know.)
I've had back pain in the past and it always went away. This time I developed foot pain and it didn't seem to be going away. From reading more Sarno and from reading these forums I saw that many other things I've had (i.e. migraines, mitral valve prolapse, etc.) have also been TMS.
I began practicing feeling my emotions more and exploring them. That did help. But my fear/anxiety about the symptoms was huge, and my gut told me that that was the bigger problem. That's where Claire Weekes comes in. She doesn't merely say, "go back to physical activity." Her whole book is a series of vignettes showing you, over and over, in different words and stories, how to loosen the grip that fear and anxiety have. She has a gentleness that I find therapeutic. She walks you calmly along the path. Even if you can only loosen up a bit at first, she says, don't despair. You will get there.
She filled in the blanks for me in a way I needed this time. As I say, Sarno alone worked for me in the past. But this time I needed more help.
Anyway, I agree that we are not clones. We each have our own story and our own path to healing. What I am learning is that the cure is within you. Each one of us has to figure out intuitively what it is we need. |
|
|
|
bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2013 : 15:21:39
|
quote:
Originally posted by gailnyc
[quote]Originally posted by Back2-It
Although Sarno stresses rage, my own bigger problem has been sadness. I had been trying to keep a tight lid on sadness, not even admitting to myself when I felt it, which turned it into anxiety
Once it gets to anxiety... the real trouble begins. Again, this is why you see "fear" and "anxiety" as the primary obstacles people had to overcome, as opposed to "rage." Very seldom if ever do you read a success story where someone blamed their issues on rage. Why? Because rage is fleeting and non-essential for survival. Fear on the other hand? There is an entire structure in the brain solely dedicated to dumping the most powerful chemicals available to our bodies into our bloodstream.
You hear about people lifting cars off of themselves or other seemingly superhuman feats at times of distress. That's fear. That's how powerful of a reaction we are talking about. Noradrenaline, epinephrine, cortisol... these chemicals can literally knock you out in the right doses. These are fear chemicals.
My story is like yours... not sadness, but health issues and worry turned to fear (anxiety)... and when it did, it was off to the races.
Before it turned to fear, yes... I had the occasional migraine and "sinus" headache... some nausea... but I was functioning at a high level. It's when my thoughts turned obsessive and fearful ABOUT those issues... that I become stuck and eventually broke down so badly I thought I needed medical help, missed days of work, etc. My life was a daily living hell, all because of fear chemistry... anxiety.
Again, while there are many pieces to the puzzle... anxiety is always the fuel. We live in a society that can put us into "survival" mode, often without us knowing... and once that fear chemistry cranks up, we all know the results.
Every single person I've read on this forum is scared. All afraid of their symptoms. Varying degrees and in varying ways, but they're all stuck... ruminating on sensations, pains, fearful for what will happen to them. It's the one, single common element in every story.
Similarly, overcoming that fear is the single element you'll find in every single success story. The reason Hillbilly's posts are so valuable is that he had the guts to tell it like it is. In a forum where people were tip-toeing around, afraid of their inner whatever... he helped empower people to take control, and lose the fear.
|
|
|
|
tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2013 : 17:41:35
|
quote:
Originally posted by bryan3000
Every single person I've read on this forum is scared. All afraid of their symptoms. Varying degrees and in varying ways, but they're all stuck... ruminating on sensations, pains, fearful for what will happen to them. It's the one, single common element in every story.
Excuse me, but I'm not "scared", maybe you are projecting, that's quite a reach to generalize like that. I go about my daily business, go to work, play, drive, swim, make love, sleep, contribute to this forum along with a lot of other things I do. I'm not unreasonably fearful of this afternoon, tonight, tomorrow or the future, in fact looking forward to it--I've been SARNOIZED. My anxiety level is very low unless there is something to be rationally anxious about, like bullets or knives coming in my direction, then I get out of the way the best I can.
Cheers,
tt/lsmft |
Edited by - tennis tom on 05/25/2013 18:36:09 |
|
|
|
bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2013 : 18:07:01
|
quote:
Originally posted by alix
quote:
TMS is a PROTECTOR
I buy all of Sarno's theory and what you wrote but this is where I have a problem. As an ex-mod of a symptom's forum, I came across 3 people that had all the signs of having TMS (pain vanishing mysteriously, emotional trauma etc...) but subsequently committed suicide. what kind of protection is that?
I know that the response is to not get hung-up on the details but it is pretty fundamental.
Sad story, Alix. Agree... the "protection" theory isn't the case for everyone. There is just as much evidence that the aches, pains and mental disorders are a by-product of life, thinking and behavioral patterns as they are protectors. Could they be? Sure, I suppose.
But again... protector... byproduct of thoughts/stress... what's the difference? We're going to go after it by losing fear and changing the way we live. |
|
|
|
maccafan
130 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2013 : 19:57:39
|
"In my experience, the state of anxiety, which is perceived by the individual as a psychological malaise, is a reaction to what is being repressed, created by the ego as a distraction, much as it creates depression and physical pain for the same purpose. Anxiety is an equivalent of pain and depression. It, too, acts to assist repression. What the patient fears is not an external but an internal situation of malaise and danger--painful feelings and rage. The patient is not conscious of these feelings. The anxiety is free floating, generalized to all aspects of the person's life. Pain and depression may alternate with anxiety, making it quite clear that they serve the same psychological purpose. This is another example of the symptom imperative, and I have had numerous patients who have exhibited precisely such symptoms. Pain, anxiety, and depression are not symptomatic of illness or disease. They are all part of the normal reacton to frightening unconscious phenomena."
Quoted from The Divided Mind by Dr. John E. Sarno
Copied and posted by a Dr. Sarno Zombie...uh, I mean...by MACCAFAN
|
Edited by - maccafan on 05/25/2013 20:04:04 |
|
|
|
pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2013 : 20:44:52
|
| As someone who used to experience terrifying panic attacks, I don't believe for a minute that they were somehow protecting me against something worse. |
|
|
|
bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2013 : 20:51:45
|
Pspa,
Agree... most of us who have experienced anxiety of the panic variety will tell you it's a result, not a precursor.
Like most here, my life didnt go off the rails totally until I feared what was happening. The panic attacks followed the fear. |
Edited by - bryan3000 on 05/25/2013 20:55:54 |
|
|
|
alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2013 : 23:37:31
|
pspa and bryan, I agree. I never felt the "benevolent" protection. I started to become pain free mostly when being more in the now and in control of negative thoughts.
|
|
|
|
pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2013 : 10:51:18
|
| To be clear, I don't doubt that in my case anyhow the panic attacks, and general anxiety, have deep psychological origins. I just don't find the "protection" theory persuasive, for a variety of reasons. |
|
|
|
gailnyc
USA
80 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2013 : 16:01:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by pspa123
To be clear, I don't doubt that in my case anyhow the panic attacks, and general anxiety, have deep psychological origins. I just don't find the "protection" theory persuasive, for a variety of reasons.
I agree. I have come to believe that the pain was a message from my unconscious that I needed to calm down my nervous system.
But it may be different for different people. Who cares, really? |
|
|
|
alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2013 : 16:46:33
|
| gailnyc, I think it matters. Thinking that there is an irrational gremlin inhabiting your brain is fear generating. On the other hand, your brain expressing an overload is easier to deal with mentally. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Hillbilly writes his success story!
