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All1Spirit
USA
149 Posts |
 Posted - 04/06/2013 : 13:59:21
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As a side note the Holmes-Rahe is no longer in wide use by psychologists or neurophysiologists. While it was informative when conceived it is very limited and lacks specificity, we know know that stress thresholds start in utero and accumulate for the life of the organism.
Work of world renowned stress researchers like Dr. Robert Sapolsky have shown that small consistent stressors are more damaging to the human physiology that larger, time limited events. We, like all life forms are designed to accommodate major stressor events that are limited in duration.
The real damage comes by death of a thousand paper cuts!!
"Around and Around the Circle We Go....
The Answer Sits In The Middle and Knows..." |
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gigalos
Netherlands
310 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 14:55:51
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quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
quote:
Originally posted by gigalos
I am skeptic about skepdic... they don't have a topic index about regular medicine...
I'm not clear on what you're objection is? How are you defining "regular medicine"? The definition has been blurring recently with the failure of the medical/industrial complex to cure chronic TMS pain. Doctor's offices now have chiropractors and acupuncturists in house which would have been unheard of not long ago.
They do have this index: http://www.skepdic.com/contents.html#A
Since about 80% of ailments, according to TMS thought are psychosomatic, if an allopathic doctor, body-worker, shaman, voo-doo witch doctor, or anyone else who will pay attention and administer a placebo will do the trick.
The best thing anyone can do--and the cheapest--is to read Dr. Sarno and allow their own mindbody's healing abilities to administer their own placebo.
Hi Tom,
I feel skeptic because I find this article about EFT very biased. The author has every right, but I immediately become skeptic because it's almost like he is bearing a grudge towards the subject and therefore I don't believe that all arguments are there and fair. For example, there are other forms of EFT that have less 'mumbojumbo', that you can perform yourself without having to pay anyone. It is only writing the arguments that support your opinion and dismissing the possibility that there is something science just does not yet understand.
I'd rather read a more objective piece, but that is just my preference. And to answer your other question with another question, what is their (skepdic's) definition of alternative medicine? Why aren't they skeptic about for example the prescription of anti-anxiety drugs like it is candy or Statin as was discussed in another thread here? I miss that, it makes (parts of) this 'dictionary' more a bashing of the obvious without considering that 'regular medicine' (or science in general) involves a lot to be skeptic about too.
Back to the main issue now... I already stated my opinion, I am more than open for it to try it out. I can't see any harm in it, only possible benefits. It took science ages just to prove that x^n+y^n=z^n, so I will not wait for that to happen first. |
Edited by - gigalos on 04/06/2013 15:12:22 |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 15:43:39
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pspa: I tried EMDR on my own. There is a neat video on youtube you can use. It was successful. I mostly used Faster EFT.
tom: My HOLMES-RAHE score is completely unremarkable. I did resolve my symptoms but I had to deviate from Sarno. I explored and resolved repressed emotions and I had to accommodate behavioral changes in my life.
all1spirit: Your colleague Robert Scaer that you first brought up to support your point of view is indeed a believer in EFT and EMDR. |
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plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 16:02:44
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quote:
Originally posted by alix
pspa: I tried EMDR on my own. There is a neat video on youtube you can use. It was successful. I mostly used Faster EFT.
Really? Alix, that's music to my ears. I'm rather taken with faster eft at the moment.
Love hearing from people who have healed. Your words matter. Do you have the EMDR link to hand? |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 16:15:12
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quote:
Originally posted by All1Spirit
As a side note the Holmes-Rahe is no longer in wide use by psychologists or neurophysiologists. While it was informative when conceived it is very limited and lacks specificity, we know know that stress thresholds start in utero and accumulate for the life of the organism.
Work of world renowned stress researchers like Dr. Robert Sapolsky have shown that small consistent stressors are more damaging to the human physiology that larger, time limited events. We, like all life forms are designed to accommodate major stressor events that are limited in duration.
The real damage comes by death of a thousand paper cuts!!
"Around and Around the Circle We Go....
The Answer Sits In The Middle and Knows..."
Rik, we'll agree to disagree on this one, your friend Dr. Sapolsky may be more current but the R-H seems just as valid now as before. The life changing events that disturb ones homeostasis, listed on the R-H, have not changed all that much. Loved ones still die, people get divorced, retire and go to jail--they all seem like very specific events to me. The list may need some updating like your when computer loses your long and carefully thought out post, but life has not changed that much in the course of a few decades. I know the media seeks out the newest portended solutions to age old problems, but dismissing the R-H is throwing out the baby with the bath water. We've all heard stories of people dying a short time after losing a spouse or shortly after retiring from a long held job.
Yes the "human condition" does begin in the womb, and TMS is part of that "human condition". TMS reservoir building repressed anger, builds up in varying degrees depending on each individual's life history. Like snowflakes, there are probably no two people alike. TMS tension can include events from the womb, the present, and worry about the future. Dr. Sarno has included the Rahe-Holmes in his books likely with good reason. Do you have a better list of life stressing situations, those here can refer to, as an aid to finding the sources of their repressed rage? Please present a list if there is one that is more current and useful and maybe I'll amend it to the list.
Cheer,
tt/lsmft
==================================================
THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
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Edited by - tennis tom on 04/06/2013 17:32:02 |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 16:18:10
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Hi plum,
Have a look at the following, it is amazing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZkdh5dVksw
You not only have the pointer to follow but the stereo sound reinforces it.
tom,
You said somewhere that your parents were Holocaust refugees. It is my case as well (my father escaped from an internment camp in France) and it is something Dr.Robert Scaer has explored and talks about in his podcast.
There was just so much negative and sad energy when I grew up, it was terrible. While I clearly was not affected by the horror as I was born after the war, it impacted me very much. Those are emotions that I manage to neutralize with EFT.
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Edited by - alix on 04/06/2013 16:45:00 |
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plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 16:42:16
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quote:
Originally posted by alix
Hi plum,
Have a look at the following, it is amazing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZkdh5dVksw
You not only have the pointer to follow but the stereo sound reinforces it.
Thanks so much. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 17:44:39
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quote:
Originally posted by alix
tom,
You said somewhere that your parents were Holocaust refugees. It is my case as well (my father escaped from an internment camp in France) and it is something Dr.Robert Scaer has explored and talks about in his podcast.
There was just so much negative and sad energy when I grew up, it was terrible. While I clearly was not affected by the horror as I was born after the war, it impacted me very much. Those are emotions that I manage to neutralize with EFT.
Hi Alex, good memory, Mom Auschwitz, Dad slave in Hitler's work camp. Only one other relative survived, makes it easy at the holidays, very few cards to send out. I'll look up Scaer, thanks for the tip.
Cheers,
tt |
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All1Spirit
USA
149 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 18:37:52
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Tom
The HR scale omits the accumulation of small stresses that can be more profound in altering the nervous system than a major event. we are designed to accommodate a divorce or death in the family – Activation then resolution.
With small,constant stressors there is activation and exhaustion without resolution. Interpersonal conflict within a family is one such stress that HR never covers. Another is low wages, lack of control over life circumstances, environmental noise, harsh climates, lack of sunlight, urban crowding, world news reports and any frustration. HR fails to address these and thousands more of these stress issues.
"Around and Around the Circle We Go....
The Answer Sits In The Middle and Knows..." |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 19:00:16
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| On this I agree with Rik, a bad relationship can be an unrelenting source of stress. So can caring for a sick person, not sure I saw that on the list. |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 19:51:12
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Hi Eric,
It is interesting that Shawn, plum, yourself, and myself were all attracted to fasterEFT and not EFT. Do you have an idea why? |
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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 20:11:08
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quote:
Originally posted by alix
Hi Eric,
It is interesting that Shawn, plum, yourself, and myself were all attracted to fasterEFT and not EFT. Do you have an idea why?
alix my friend, eft is a great practice - we just get it faster with fastereft and sometimes the slower process is good so people can know all the reasons for the meridian lines and such
its just who it is ya know
ill be removing my post tomorrow cause
I don't want any new guys thinking
its going to take as long as it took me |
Edited by - eric watson on 04/06/2013 20:14:58 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 20:52:40
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quote:
Originally posted by All1Spirit
Tom
The HR scale omits the accumulation of small stresses that can be more profound in altering the nervous system than a major event. we are designed to accommodate a divorce or death in the family – Activation then resolution.
With small,constant stressors there is activation and exhaustion without resolution. Interpersonal conflict within a family is one such stress that HR never covers. Another is low wages, lack of control over life circumstances, environmental noise, harsh climates, lack of sunlight, urban crowding, world news reports and any frustration. HR fails to address these and thousands more of these stress issues.
"Around and Around the Circle We Go....
The Answer Sits In The Middle and Knows..."
Ric, I'm not going to argue with someone who buys ink by the barrel and gets paid to write articles. I've copied the R-H list of major life stressors and folks here can decide for themselves if these things cause them stress or not. Maybe you are designed to accommodate a divorce or death, or maybe you believe that because you read it somewhere. I'll choose to believe the lies I want to believe.
You're not writing for a psychology journal here, most of us are amateurs trying to help others. One of the fundamentals of Dr. Sarnos's theory is 100% belief in it. People who don't take that leap of faith don't get "cured", those who do get better and move on. You seem to take delight in disproving the Good Doctor's work rather then supporting or bolstering it. There's a huge world out there who thinks the same, Sarno believers are a microcosm of a microscosm.
Why do you stick around? Are you trying to make a name for yourself in psychology circles by being the one to PROVE POSITIVE that Dr. Sarno is wrong? If so why don't you start a "Dr. Sarno is Wrong Forum", instead of undermining people's beliefs here? Try going to a Chevy Forum and telling them Chevy's suck and Fords rule, see what kind of a reception you receive. I've read all Dr. Sarno's books and I believe him, his wisdom is ageless, and makes common sense, to me at least.
P.S. I've been wondering about why you keep changing your name here? Can you explain that please?
For those still interested, as promised, here's the Rahe-Holmes list. It may be a little dated but so is yesterday's newspaper, and last month's "New Yorker". See if any of these situations are still cause for concern besides the sky is falling.
Death of a spouse 100
Divorce 73
Marital separation 65
Imprisonment 63
Death of a close family member 63
Personal injury or illness 53
Marriage 50
Dismissal from work 47
Marital reconciliation 45
Retirement 45
Change in health of family member 44
Pregnancy 40
Sexual difficulties 39
Gain a new family member 39
Business readjustment 39
Change in financial state 38
Death of a close friend 37
Change to different line of work 36
Change in frequency of arguments 35
Major mortgage 32
Foreclosure of mortgage or loan 30
Change in responsibilities at work 29
Child leaving home 29
Trouble with in-laws 29
Outstanding personal achievement 28
Spouse starts or stops work 26
Begin or end school 26
Change in living conditions 25
Revision of personal habits 24
Trouble with boss 23
Change in working hours or conditions 20
Change in residence 20
Change in schools 20
Change in recreation 19
Change in church activities 19
Change in social activities 18
Minor mortgage or loan 17
Change in sleeping habits 16
Change in number of family reunions 15
Change in eating habits 15
Vacation 13
Christmas 12
Minor violation of law 11
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Edited by - tennis tom on 04/06/2013 21:00:11 |
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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 21:10:00
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| I agree with you 100 % Tom |
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plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2013 : 06:30:27
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quote:
Originally posted by alix
Hi Eric,
It is interesting that Shawn, plum, yourself, and myself were all attracted to fasterEFT and not EFT. Do you have an idea why?
I appreciate this question is for Eric but thought I'd chime in with the reasons for my attraction to Faster Eft. Although somewhat familiar with eft I'd never heard of the faster form. Shawn sent me this YouTube link:
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=n4z78071Jw0&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dn4z78071Jw0
So I watched and then immediately visited Robert's site and signed up for the free course, which is a great introduction. The beauty of fastereft is the immediacy. It's effective and what you see is what you get. It helps immensely to see it in action as opposed to reading about it. I'm tuckered out with reading so the video was perfect.
The other main advantage of the videos is that you can tap along. You can relax and follow. Robert Smith repeatedly points out that it's not so much about the tapping but what he calls the aiming, focusing on the pain, problem or issue at hand.
I'm only a couple of weeks into this but can honestly say something good is happening. It's worth a looksee.
And I have to say that Shawn has been wonderful in sending me key links to videos and Eric is a goldmine and great supporter.
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2013 : 08:13:23
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I may as well add my 2 cents in here. I have been doing Gary's EFT for awhile and have had tremendous success with it. I listened to the the video's and was completely turned off by Robert's version. Just my opinion. I don't like the way he minimizes the importance of the tapping and leaves out many of the tapping points. I think he makes it more complicated. I always thought EFT was very fast anyway. I just don't get it - He creates a longer, more complicated version of EFT and calls it faster.
Also, I am very suspicious of promoters who take something that has been offered free, add some sexy pop psychology and charge money for it. What is Robert's background? We already lost Sylvia to some internet shaman. Why do so many people have so little faith in their own power to heal themselves? We all have this innate ability and yet we just jump at the chance to give our power to someone else, and if they charge us money, all the better. I am not knocking qualified therapists, just what I consider internet quacks. Now I bet EFT gets a bad name because of greedy people.
I wish anyone who chooses to go this route the best, I am not trying to be non supportive. But just really think about why you are doing this. |
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Back2-It
USA
438 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2013 : 09:07:07
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EFT seems to just be a way to keep your thoughts in the present, a mindfulness. Qi or homeostasis or peace has to come from the mind and that is translated to the body.
When you tap you are consciously placing your hands, fingers, whatever on your body, which you have to be aware of in that it is a directed and not unconscious movement.
Just my guess.
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
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plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2013 : 09:09:32
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Am I missing something?
All this has been free and I'm experiencing the boons.
I've spent a lot of money, and worse yet, made emotional investments in therapists that have done jack. If anything I feel more empowered by this than anything else I've tried.
It's where comedy meets reality. |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2013 : 10:03:22
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chickenbone, whatever works. I used faster EFT and was successful. I did not need any help with it.
There is a urologist Dr.Eric B. Robins MD that is a fan of Sarno and faster EFT and I saw him saying how he helped his pelvic pain patients with it which is why it caught my attention.
Watch video 427. It is not only very soothing but informative. |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2013 : 12:02:59
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I guess I just still don't get it. I read quite a bit on Robert's website. He has basically no qualifications, is a self-proclaimed guru. Just because a lot of people are stupid enough to follow him and pay him money to do what they could do themselves does not impress me much. He also uses the tactics that Bernie Madoff used to suck in thousands of investors to their financial doom, he pretends to make it difficult to buy into his schemes so that people think this is a select, discerning crowd. He, as well as others like him, is just another carnival barker to me. There will always be those people. I do not follow them.
One thing I have learned during my healing is that you must OWN your own healing or it will not last. I think I have healed and I have the ability to fix myself during flare ups of the TMS. My sleep is much better and I have no pain. My anxiety is greatly reduced. I still plan to do EMDR with a qualified therapist. I recently had a 3 day flare up of pain, but I knew why, what forces were at work. I have now a completely different relationship with pain than I had before. It does not frighten me, I consider it a warning signal. I am able to figure out what I need to do to make the pain go away. I (my mind) is both the creator and the fixer of pain. The only bout of pain I had in 4 months has healed in 3 days. Ace's keys were the cornerstone of my recovery. Then EFT made my recovery faster. I have also confronted very traumatic childhood memories and am able to recall them with almost no bad emotion. Right now, I am in the process of discovering all the false beliefs I have developed over the years and modifying them. These false beliefs and defense mechanisms have mostly been the cause of my emotional problems.
I have no need of someone like Robert Smith. However I do hope to find a caring, legitimate, qualified therapist like Dr. Alexander to help me with EMDR to put the finishing touches on my recovery. |
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Topic removed -- too many haters
