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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
 Posted - 04/06/2013 : 06:47:58
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| Topic removed due to too many negative and hateful comments. |
Edited by - shawnsmith on 04/08/2013 05:40:01 |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 06:58:21
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| Shawn, is this your view as well? |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 09:59:53
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Robert Scaer that we discussed in All1spirit's thread makes a pretty good argument for it. Robert has studied Shamanic rituals himself that also end in brain reconsolidation.
He agrees that the ritual itself and the movement are 2 ingredients that are part of many practices, be it EFT, EMDR, or tribal healing ceremonies. |
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Birdie78
Germany
145 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 10:09:31
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Shawn, if you're interested in a more scientific view of EFT I recommend the EFT-chapter in Dr. James Alexanders book. What sometimes in descriptions in the internet really seems to be a bit "esoteric" in fact has a profound scientific background and is also prooven to work in several serious studies.
Just in the moment I am working on my spider phobia, and believe me: I am really, really phobic and hysteric, even screaming when I see the pic (!) of a spider! I couldn't hardly look at it and when I saw a spider in my house and my husband wasn't at home I slept the night in the car. I didn't tap until the fear was away, that would have probably last for hours...
A few days ago a friend of mine sent me the picture he took of a huge spider. I opened the mail, saw the spider and wasn't afraid, I was able to look at it without fear or disgust! My goal is to be able to touch the glass with a big spider under it or even to kuddle a big, hairy spider (perhaps my new pet in the future)  ?
I always tell me: even it is hard to believe in something I have to give it a try because I have not so much to loose with it.
P.e. I don't believe in homeopathy. But that doesn't mean that it is a hoax only because I don't understand the mechanism well and don't believe in it. Maybe it's a placebo cure maybe not, who knows? Me not!
Kind regards from Germany sends Birdie |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 10:19:33
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Constitutional homeopathy is based on finding the one "remedy" that most closely matches your presentation based on an extensive question session. I went to several homeopaths reputed to be the best in my area. Each one selected a different remedy, assuring me taking it would bring about profound changes.
Nothing happened.
I agree with what Ben Goldacre has written about homeopathy. Maybe it works for some people, but so do lots of placebos. The mind is all-powerful.
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 10:39:56
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I got very ill as a kid because my mother insisted treating infections with homeopathy. No thanks.
It just cannot work. A 30C dilution is like one molecule in lake Michigan. |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 10:52:24
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quote:
Originally posted by alix
I got very ill as a kid because my mother insisted treating infections with homeopathy. No thanks.
It just cannot work. A 30C dilution is like one molecule in lake Michigan.
Yah that's the whole point, they say. The more dilute the remedy, the more it has been "succussed," the greater the "energy." |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 11:13:45
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Hahnemann had of course never heard of Avogadro's number. It is just placebo. There have been many meta-analysis done that shows just that. No serious double-blind placebo study of homeopathy has shown anything tangible.
The one from Benveniste (that was financed by the Boiron Homeopathic company) has been discredited yet it is still cited as proof. |
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gigalos
Netherlands
310 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 11:31:21
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I am skeptic about skepdic... they don't have a topic index about regular medicine...
I think EFT looks promising enough to invest some time in. A lot resonates with TMS, although I am dying to know what the real purpose of the tapping is... bs?? I don't care, if it helps me decondition or reconsolidate, I am all in for giving playing the drums on myself a chance. |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 12:17:38
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I have had tremendous success with EFT whereas I did not have success with acupuncture. The problem with acupuncture is that I had grave distrust for the practitioners (I did not believe the practitioners knew what they were doing, they had 2 week courses in it and they sometimes hurt me with the needles). I also hated the needles. So when I tried EFT, I had serious doubts, but after reading the section in Dr. Alexander's book, I decided it was worth a try. I couldn't believe how well it worked for things like pain, foot cramps, traumatic memories and anxiety. It has not worked well for sleep, although it will relax me for sleep.
I have also had it work when I helped others doing it. In both instances, I did not explain what it was, but just asked them to follow my instructions. Both of them were so desperate at the time that they would have tried anything. One friend has her back "go out" about once per year. This really scares her when it happens. This is classic Sarno TMS. Remember where Sarno describes when someone has had an injury that clears up, but they have regular bouts of recurrence for years? This is her. Classic. Once I went to her house and she was on the couch, couldn't move, in a panic, getting the heating pads and ice packs, etc. I asked her to try something, not thinking myself that it would really work. I constructed a setup statement for her and asked her to describe her foremost emotion, and had her rate on a scale of 1 to 10 her discomfort, which was of course 20. Then I ran through the tapping with her. Her pain disappeared immediately. She couldn't believe it. The pain did not come back. She is a believer now and uses it herself. The other friend told me while we were swimming that she was having bad cramps in her legs and feet while exercising and it was becoming really frightening. Anyway, about 30 minutes into the aerobics session, she had a terrible cramp. As she became more concerned and in pain, it kept getting worse. She was just about in tears and couldn't move or get out of the pool. She needed to put weight on it and couldn't unless she could get out of the pool. Everyone else was trying to help, but there was just no helping her. Again, I ran through the EFT routine with her (she does not believe in any of this stuff and would never believe the cramps were being created or aggravated by her brain). Her cramp disappeared almost immediately. Oh also, in both cases I added the Gamut procedure that I got from the net. My second friend told me the last time we were doing water aerobics together that she has not had another cramp since and she has no idea why her cramps went away. He chooses not to believe that it was the EFT. Whatever, I am not trying to get anyone to believe anything, I just want to help people.
And Shawn, I hope you enjoyed yourself while you were gone from the forum. Now I see you are back trying to trash things that you have no clue about. I am disappointed. I had at least hoped that you could be supportive of the rest of us in whatever seems to be helping us. From what Neuroscience is telling us about the brain recently, is it just possible that everything that helps is placebo? Uh? Maybe the brain does not march to the beat of your current idea of "science". Since it is becoming more clear that the brain decides to have symptoms or not, isn't it just possible that anything the brain likes or believes will work. One thing is clear. People who do not keep an open mind are likely severely restricting their options for healing. If you don't believe it and are cynical about it, it most certainly won't work for you. |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 12:30:49
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I apologize to you Shawn, if that is not what you meant to do.
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 12:33:32
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Oh and Shawn, I am happy to have you back, you are a wealth of information.
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gigalos
Netherlands
310 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 12:36:17
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second that  |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 12:37:22
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quote:
Originally posted by gigalos
I am skeptic about skepdic... they don't have a topic index about regular medicine...
I'm not clear on what you're objection is? How are you defining "regular medicine"? The definition has been blurring recently, with the failure of the medical/industrial, complex to cure chronic pain, much of which is likely due to TMS. Doctor's offices now have chiroquacktors and acupuncturists in house, which would have been unheard of not long ago.
The "SKEPTIC" site does have this index which looks like a great resouce: http://www.skepdic.com/contents.html#A
Since about 80% of ailments, according to TMS thought are psychosomatic, then an allopathic doctor, body-worker, shaman, voo-doo witch doctor, or anyone else one seeks out and appears believable, may administer a placebo to do the trick, for maybe a while.
The best thing anyone can do--and the cheapest--is to read Dr. Sarno, and allow their own mindbody's healing abilities to administer their own placebo. |
Edited by - tennis tom on 04/06/2013 13:34:31 |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 12:57:40
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| I agree tt but realize that some of us got stuck on the Sarno road. When you have read HBP 10 times, watched the video 30 times, seen TMS doctors, TMS psychotherapists, and you are not one step closer to healing, then what do you do? |
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plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 13:00:48
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Shawn, first I have to express my thanks for your introduction to faster eft, and for the specific videos you've sent me. Robert Smith is rough and ready but I really like his no bs approach. I find it refreshing, and insightful. Between you and Eric and some exploring I've uncovered some real gems on YouTube, which as you say, are completely free. I take my hat off to Robert for that immense generosity.
Second, it really is early days and the man himself describes this as a lifelong skill. Having become exceptional at creating and maintaining our problems, we must grant ourselves lashes of slack in the undoing of them and in creating happy shiny new things.
I'm experiencing a remarkable clarity on the emotional front and much sifting and sorting. I've also noticed how beautifully Ace1's Keys dovetail with the whole process. Finally lest anyone (I'm not looking at you sweet Tom *smiles*), worries that this in any way detracts from Sarno, nothing could be further from the truth. If anything it endorses the good man. I can't link to this because I'm on my smart phone but somewhere on his site, Robert instructs potential clients on how to prep for a session with him and it is pure Sarno. I'll try to russle that up later.
So much more to say but I'll leave it here as food is beckoning.
Very much look forward to Eric's comment here as he's been a dream for me.
What has anyone to lose by taking a look?
There's a free seven day email course that'll gen you up nicely. |
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plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
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plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 13:08:38
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| Shawn, are you being your real self? Are you truly living the life - sexually, artistically, spiritually, that your heart desires? |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 13:34:52
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| Shawn/Alix/anyone else, have you tried EMDR? |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 13:41:54
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To Shawn and Alix, I can't recall your individual issues. Could you briefly reiterate what the emotional issues are, as per the Rahe-Holmes list, no intimate details needed-but it doesn't hurt to spill your guts if you are inclined to--and what is or are the physical symptom(s)?
HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
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Edited by - tennis tom on 04/06/2013 13:44:05 |
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All1Spirit
USA
149 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2013 : 13:50:51
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Since this forum is essentially about mind/body concepts the research has shown that all these things can work along with potents of bat wings and chicken lips.
The technique is not as critical as the belief. Research has also shown that the more rational (scientific/intelligent) the less likely you are to have them work. Santería was a powerful belief until the people became educated. The Bible reported that people had evil spirits, an educated person today would see these events as a seizure disorder. Still the belief in malevolent spirits had great power – people died as result of believing they were hexed.
My issue is not that people want to try these modalities, the only real danger is that they distract from things that might work better. My issue is the money people make from deception, both self-deception and patient deception.
The old saying applies here: two are born every minute that are willing to believe anything...and one born a minute to take their money!!
"Around and Around the Circle We Go....
The Answer Sits In The Middle and Knows..." |
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Topic removed -- too many haters
