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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
 Posted - 03/08/2013 : 21:35:41
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| That pointedness is we're the strain therein lies |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2013 : 21:38:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
How is offering my opinion overstepping my bounds. You can take it or leave it. Like chiropractic care. Take it or leave it.
Surely you understand you are offering your opinion as a medical doctor, not just some guy on the internet. That's very different because it carries an imprimatur with it. And in my ever so humble opinion it is overstepping bounds for a medical doctor to offer an opinion, and to suggest to someone to forego diagnosis and treatment, with essentially no facts, no physical examination, no history, etc. based on some blanket theory that all chronic pain is TMS. You wouldn't diagnose an actual patient without an exam and history, or so I hope anyhow. I hope I have answered your question. |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2013 : 21:40:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
That pointedness is we're the strain therein lies
I could just as easily say your answers suggest you are feeling strained. |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2013 : 21:45:53
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| What does chiropractic care have to do with anything? I certainly would leave that. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2013 : 21:47:11
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| I'm glad we are able to write back and forth. This will be helpful to you. Remember my opinion was after you had an MRI and you shared the results with the forum, right ? You did not reveal cancer or instability or fracture. Therefore what is the harm if you forgo treatment? If you go by conventional medical theories if you do nothing, which many people do by the way, they just stay in pain. That is not dangerous at all so therefore my advice to you had no negative consequence even by standard medical advice. You know well that standard medical advice is not complete, would you not agree with that? I would think you would because you are on this forum. Btw, you never told me what structural abnormality to you is considered tms and which ones are real, and how does one differentiate. Maybe that will help me understand where you are coming from better. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2013 : 21:53:39
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| I know I am debating with a lawyer so I'm trying my best to communicate what I have seen to you to help you. If you read my posts I am trying to use questions back to you to see where I am coming from. As you can see, I am not surprised or upset that that you do not believe what I am saying. I am just trying to explain from all angles. I had many patients/coworkers that didn't understand at first, but with time saw it and got better from it. That is why I'm trying to say it as it is and see if it may help you even if it is at some future point. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2013 : 21:56:07
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| Reason I used chiropractic care is that even if I was wrong like chiropractors (which I don't think I am), there are many people that can be wrong and offer their opinions but yet they are not overstepping their bounds. People who listen can take it or leave it. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2013 : 22:03:11
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| One last point, how many medical doctors are wrong out there? Tons, and I think you have expressed that you agree with that statement. So treat me the same as you treat balto. I come as one who has recovered, not one as a doctor. The only reason I ever even mentioned I was a doctor was to explain some observations that only a doctor seeing patients day in and out would know. I wouldn't even have had to be a doctor. I could have been a soothsayer or witch doctor. Just someone with a lot of exposure to many sufferring people. Like I said just bc I am a doctor gives me no more experience or knowledge for overcoming tms than anyone else. Steveo and me are no different except I may be able to see more sick people to observe things like failed medical treatment and the symptom imperative. |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2013 : 22:16:01
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Hi Ace,
In the interest of appeasing my conscience I have to admit to giving bad advice someone on this forum. It was in this thread when I encouraged Jennypeanut to research for Thyroid scams on the internet despite her saying she was sensitive to this and was against her rules. She actually said I had put her “back in fear mode”. I felt horrible at the time and realized I knew very little about her or her condition. I had made assumptions and did not heed her words or judge her sensitivity well. Here is the thread:
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7736
I would have been even more upset had I been a doctor giving advice. I remember and note well the description in SteveO’s book “The Great Pain Deception” of two doctors who told someone that they would die, and this advice actually made it happen for no apparent reason just faith in their words. This was due to the enormous healing power that they possess. I would not wish this on you Ace, take care and perhaps rethink this comment of yours:
”Like I said just bc I am a doctor gives me no more experience or knowledge for overcoming tms than anyone else”
Since then I try to give advice in the context of “what happened to me” or “this is how I did it” to back up my statements and give reasons to be better understood.
I feel better for “fessing” up about this, whew.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Stopped Wiki Edu Program in lieu of own journalling
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2013 : 22:19:51
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| Andy pay attension to the sentence. I said being a doctor does not help me overcome TMS any more than anyone else. What I mean is that the experience for overcoming TMS particularly came from my own recovery. Does that make sense? In other words my doctor training did not teach me to diagnose or treat tms, it was just my experience, just like Steve o, balto, Eric etc |
Edited by - Ace1 on 03/08/2013 22:22:04 |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2013 : 23:37:22
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Hi Ace,
The way I see it is being a doctor puts you in a position of authority and knowledge. As in “is there a doctor in the house”. We look to up to you guys to save us when dire circumstances occur, we don’t and can’t differentiate or ask whether your views came from your TMS recovery views or your medical background. Remember what I said to congratulate you in your recovery thread:
Congratulations on your recovery. I am very pleased to see an MD write a recovery storey, you must have a very discerning and open mind to deal with the masses of conflicts and beliefs out there.
I do not understand. Are you a doctor who has cast aside the teachings of the medical profession completely? I don’t see or feel open mindedness on your part in many of your posts, sorry. People need true medical advice and knowledge as well as TMS help. It must be difficult for you for I believe you are wearing two hats so to speak.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Stopped Wiki Edu Program in lieu of own journalling
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2013 : 05:21:06
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| Andy I don't really think you understand what I am trying to say. I didn't come on this board to teach someone how to get over tms from what I learned from med school. This is bc I learned nothing about tms from med school. That is my only point. This doesn't mean I don't practice regular allopathic medicine in my clinic. I actually only do. I try to incorporate some tms teachings along with it but most will not accept it or work on it so I do not put much emphasis on it. Andy if you want to know what my training has taught me in a particular ailment, just go on medscape, md consult, mayo clinic and the various online sites and you will know all you need to know. There are even forums were doctors will answer people's questions from a strictly standard medical standpoint. I would never do that because that is redundant information. There are only 2 reasons a person comes on this board. The first is to seek help to recover and the second is to help. Some also try to help, but their main purpose is their own recovery, or to reach a better state. The hardest thing I ever did was recover from my tms. Mine was very severe. My recovery is the thing I am the most proud of, even more than becoming a physician. I saw that what it took for me to get better was not clearly stated any where (at least for me). I felt I needed to try and help, which is the only reason i am here. It would be nice to get occasional feed back so I can improve the way I help others, but I can get that from the people I work with and my friends. Maybe if I got a few to get over their illness they can help others and I may not be needed anymore. That is all. My only other point is that yes you do have to be checked out, in case you may need some life saving TEMPORIZING procedure or medication. Just because the basic cause is stress does not mean it can't kill you. I say temporizing bc i think stress in the way i describe it is the basic cause of most illnesses and if you don't fix the basic cause, the person is never really back to normal. Therefore mo matter what treatment a person pursues, it is important for them to work on this aspect of things. However when pspa talked about his MRI findings as you mention, I knew there was no dire need for intervention which is why I said what I said. I even gave him only a 3 month challenge. Obviously a MRI of the knee does not rule out cancer somewhere else, but most doctors would not look elsewhere if there are no other symptoms to go after. I hope you understand what I am trying to say and if you don't maybe someone else who understands me can help to explain it. Good luck Andy. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2013 : 05:33:42
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Hi all
Interesting thread. I don't see Ace as a doctor but as someone who has suffered and recovered and he is here, like Balto, to offer his advice on how to recover. There is nothing in his formal medical training which taught him how to recover from TMS, he had to learn that on his own like we are doing now. As Ace stated, he does have the advantage over us in that he sees many patients on a daily basis who are suffering and he detects patterns. In that respect he possesses knowledge that most of us don't have. Ace, via his 28 healing keys, is encouraging us to practice mindfulness in our lives. Yes, it takes a lot of discipline and it is not always easy, but anything which helps quiet the mind and mentally remain in the moment is going to reduce your suffering.
Healing does not take place over night and one has to be patient. Sometimes, in our suffering, we lash out art those who are trying to help us, but they are not the problem. The problem lies within us and unless we come to that realization and begin to make a shift in our thinking and actions, our path to recovery is going to be a lot longer and harder.
Consider these words from Ekhart Tolle in his book "A New Earth" ---
"Presence is a state of inner spaciousness. When you are present, you
ask: How do I respond to the needs of this situation, of this moment? In fact,you don't even need to ask the question. You are still, alert, open to what is. You bring a new dimension into the situation: Space. Then you look and you listen. Thus you become one with the situation. When instead of reacting against a situation, you merge with it, the solution arises out o the situation itself. Actually, it is not you, the person, who is looking and listening, but the alert stillness itself. Then, if action is possible or necessary, you take action or rather right action happens through you. Right action is action that is appropriate to the whole. When the action is accomplished, the alert, spacious stillness remains. There is nobody who raises his arms in a gesture of triumph shouting a defiant “Yeah!” There is no one ho says, “Look, I did that.”"
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“Nonresistance, nonjudgment, and nonattachment are the
three aspects of true freedom and enlightened living” -- Ekhart Tolle |
Edited by - shawnsmith on 03/09/2013 06:07:16 |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2013 : 06:12:09
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| Thank you Shawn for you have summed it up perfectly. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2013 : 07:20:15
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I've been here a while and I know of NO ONE who came here first. Most everyone came here after several or many dx's and trying alternative and complementary cures. Below is the boilerplate from the site's Home Page:
"Copyright © 2006 TMSHelp.com. This website is not affiliated with any doctor or medical organization. No information on this site should be considered medical advice. For medical advice, see your doctor."
Modern medicine is really good at DX'ing structural disease. If they haven't come up with an answer that works for you, the odds are really good that it's TMS, about 80% according to Dr. Sarno's years of clinical experience.
If you're unhappy with what you're hearing here, maybe audition for the TV show below and they can help you:
http://health.howstuffworks.com/tv/mystery-diagnosis
G'luck,
tt/lsmft |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2013 : 07:38:07
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| Thank you Tom. Very good points and especially about the disclaimer on this site. Words of wisdom. |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2013 : 08:50:38
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Ace1 when I know who you are it is difficult to take your opinion about a potential medical issue as just the opinion of another poster on a message board, but if that is the spirit in which it is intended, I will try to do so. In that context, I understand your perspective and your conclusion may well be right but I need to go through a different process to reach that conclusion given the acute worsening of symptoms despite my not worrying about them. I only identified a couple of the MRI findings as my point in the other thread was not to seek advice for myself but just to point out to another poster that sometimes there COULD be another explanation. The actual report is quite complicated and my orthopedist wants some followup testing as he is not sure what is causing all the objective severe inflammation of the joint lining and swelling. He was very sure back when I had the other problem and was right so I do have a lot of confidence in his judgment and candor. While many or even most so called conventional doctors put too much faith in structure, I am comfortable that this doctor does not. You also asked for my opinion on which structural issues mattered and which did not but that is just way beyond my expertise. While i ultimately make my own decisions I need input on that from my orthopedist and given that he has probably examined thousands of knees I assume his will be a valuable input. If there isn,t a clear explanation at the end of the process then I go back to my working TMS hypothesis.
By the way Dr. Hanscoms book gives a surgeons perspective on TMS and discusses how he distinguishes between people who need mindbody work and people who need surgery or other physical modalities He basically treats these arenas as complementary or overlapping not as antagonistic. It is a quick read. |
Edited by - pspa123 on 03/09/2013 08:52:29 |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2013 : 08:56:22
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From Dr. David Hanscom:
Introduction to Dr. David Hanscom and Chronic Pain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5d1cOoR4XY
*************************
“Nonresistance, nonjudgment, and nonattachment are the
three aspects of true freedom and enlightened living” -- Ekhart Tolle |
Edited by - shawnsmith on 03/09/2013 08:57:14 |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2013 : 09:18:52
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OK everyone,
I was prompted to start this thread because pspa123 said he was getting MRIs to Lia a young 18 year old who is brand new to the forum. She stated she hadn’t read any Dr. Sarno books so didn’t know the importance of “ruling out the physical”.
As I have said to me ruling out the physical as per Dr. Sarno and understanding the reasons of the how and why the brain manifests pain in different parts of your body is an equally main key to healing.
With a big doggy teeth smile to Tom for his delicate input and reminding us to read the copyright disclaimer, let us also not forget the rules and guidelines for posting, no one is unhappy.
I’ll let this thread R.I.P.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Stopped Wiki Edu Program in lieu of own journalling
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
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gigalos
Netherlands
310 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2013 : 09:47:53
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Not to choose sides here, if any are left that is, but just to share my view on giving advise to people:
I give advise at another forum about drug addiction, because I've been there. I am not a pro, but I know one or two things.
Although there is a disclaimer on that forum too, I am always careful about giving a person a feeling that I am 100% correct in my statements, even if all symptoms that are described convince me that I am. Therefore I always try to use words like "it is my opinion", "i think it is" or "..., but I am not a professional". If I don't, there is the possibility that some people will totally rely on your statements, despite the website's disclaimer or because you wrote it in earlier posts, which I think is dangerous. It is always the person's own responsibility what road to take and that is why I feel I need to emphasize that one way or the other in my posts. |
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RULE OUT THE PHYSICAL
