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Sylvia
199 Posts |
 Posted - 03/03/2013 : 15:18:46
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IF it is Utta Utta Acceptance
IF it is reduction of strain and tension
IF the desire is to ultimately be happy and teeumass keeps you from that
Then this nearly 4 hour video is what you want.
Who is he? A Psychotherapist. An Indian. A Jesuit Priest. A man who Bishop Ratzinger just about damned (before he was Pope). The position being that Catholics should not read his books. So if you are Atheist he is your man, Agnostics, you too, whatever you are, even Catholic, he is your treasure.
And if you delight in a clear great teacher such as Joseph Campbell then Anthony De Mello will be your delight. And maybe your undoing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncGoMFnOGHY
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Sylvia
199 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2013 : 18:22:23
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Okay, maybe something that takes less time.
This is a book of Anthony De Mello that you can read online. 82 pages long.
http://www.arvindguptatoys.com/arvindgupta/tonyawareness.pdf
excerpt from book
But I’ll promise you this: I have
not known a single person who gave time to
being aware who didn’t see a di
fference in a matter of weeks.
The quality of their life
changes, so they don’t have to take it on fa
ith anymore. They see it; they’re different.
They react differently. In fact, they react
less and act more. You see things you’ve never
seen before.
You’re much more energetic, much more
alive. People think that if they had no
cravings, they’d be like deadwood. But in fact
they’d lose their tension. Get rid of your
fear of failure, your tensions about succeeding, you will be yourself. Relaxed. You
wouldn’t be driving with your brak
es on. That’s what would happen.
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Edited by - Sylvia on 03/04/2013 09:18:07 |
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Sylvia
199 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2013 : 04:27:55
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Do you grieve? Your life is a MESS
Do you get upset by someone? Your life is a MESS
Are you lonely? Your life is a MESS
This video is in 3 parts, for an hour and a half
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q57cFQkbBJQ
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Sylvia
199 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2013 : 04:39:13
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I will not try to paraphrase, I will just muse out what I understand.
All of your screwedupness is do to programming. It keeps you asleep.
You do NOT want to wake up. To wake up is to lose your programming.
Nothing ever bothers you. You don't bother you. Your programming bothers you.
Nothing needs to be done to the programming but to SEE it. It unravels and falls away on it's own.
Now for Teeumass. You can say that stress and strain is the cause whether you frame that in id super ego terms (selfs ego against ego) or the way I feel about "out there" you, that, this.
Get rid of ALL stress and strain and fear, which is due to programming, it doesn't matter which theory you subscribe. And nothing ever bothers you, nothing.
No need to meditate (except in the notion of seeing programming in action) no need to "get present" "get in the now" like there is anywhere the hell else for you TO be. No need for my god or your god or no god. No need to go to anyone and pay for anything.
Elegant profound radical! |
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njoy
Canada
188 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2013 : 13:25:18
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I am reading a book about an Australian psychiatrist who taught a simple meditation technique to cure or greatly help people with mental illness, cancer and more. To me, it seems much more accessible than other types of meditation and I'm using it as part of my tms recovery.
The book is specifically about cancer which requires a lot of dedication to have good results (cure, greatly prolonged life, or a markedly more peaceful death). If you don't have something life threatening the method is no more demanding than any other form of meditation. In fact, 10 minutes twice a day will do for a start.
You can buy the paperback (but there's no Kindle version) at amazon.com OR the Kindle version (but not the book!) at amazon.ca.
Here's a link to the amazon.com book:
http://www.amazon.com/Ainslie-Meares-Doctor-Forever-Changed/dp/1890995606/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1362427615&sr=8-1&keywords=Ainslie Meares
Dr. Meares wrote many books, himself, some available on Amazon and elsewhere but many out of print. Desmond Zwar's book seems to cover the subject quite well and is useful for people who are not dealing with cancer as well as those who are. |
Edited by - njoy on 03/04/2013 13:26:55 |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2013 : 13:36:52
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| Can you give a general description of the technique? |
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tmsjptc
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2013 : 17:18:50
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Sylvia, I'm enjoying the de Mello book you provided a link to. Just read this excerpt:
"There’s a lovely saying of Tranxu, a great Chinese sage, that I took the trouble to learn by heart. It goes: “When the archer shoots for no particular prize, he has all his skills; when he shoots to win a brass buckle, he is already nervous; when he shoots for a gold prize, he goes blind, sees two targets, and is out of his mind. His skill has not changed, but the prize divides him. He cares! He thinks more of winning than of shooting, and the need to win drains him of power.” Isn’t that an image of what most people are? When you’re living for nothing, you’ve got all your skills, you’ve got all your energy, you’re relaxed, you don’t care, it doesn’t matter whether you win or lose."
Somehow this is related to something I deal with. When I'm concerned with what others think of me or how good my work is or a number of other things (like timing my run and seeing how fast I go), I notice TMS symptoms. When I remind myself that none of it really matters and I let go of an attachment to the outcome, then I find that I don't experience those TMS symptoms.
Thanks for sharing the link. |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2013 : 19:36:02
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yeah the "me" is the a good place for our mind to hang around at. That is where trouble usually arise.
tmsjptc, remember we once discussed about how "selfish" or "self center" can be very conducive for tms/anxiety?
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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njoy
Canada
188 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2013 : 22:09:32
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quote:
Originally posted by pspa123
Can you give a general description of the technique?
I can try but it's worthwhile to read the book because the technique is both deceptively simple and ultimately complex. Dr. Meares says that, first, there must be a reset to a time before the onset of the anxiety which he believes underlies much ill health. The slate must be wiped clean and very deep relaxation, beyond what is normally called meditation, is required.
The result is that anxiety is reduced through the atavistic regression of the patient's mental functioning. This, in turn, produces a regression of physiological functioning. Loss of color vision is one sign that the appropriate level of regression has occurred. Then, Meares says, "With the ablation of the maladaptive response, the normal homeostatic mechanisms of the body are free to reestablish more adaptive patterns of response."
In brief, you sit in a fairly comfortable position (no point in falling asleep) and repeat "Calm. Peace" and "No need to do anything". You don't concentrate on your breathing or do any thinking. No mantras. No trying not to think, either. No letting your mind drift or bringing it back if it drifts. Just let awareness go. You will know you are reaching the proper depth when you no longer distinguish colors or notice sounds or feel pain.
Meares advised cancer patients to do one to three hours a day but, of course, healthy people can do far less. Twice a day for 10 minutes, at a minimum.
As patients learned to meditate deeply, they (entirely independent of his influence) experienced "a slightly different but, at the same time profoundly significant, experience of life". There was a meaning it previously lacked, a "pre-verbal experience" unrelated to any philosophical ideas. Friends and relatives noticed the patient had changed and is "a better person" and "when things go wrong he no longer gets upset". While engaged in day to day reality, the patient experienced a new dimension to his life and became "more interested in his changed experience of life than in his cancer" followed by "a profound and sustained reduction of anxiety".
Dr. Meares said his method is very different than either the classical or modern forms of meditation. It is far deeper, far simpler, far less aware. The reduction of anxiety is more profound and lasts much longer. No idea is contemplated, no mantra expressed, no mystical ceremonies occur, no awareness prevents it from becoming complete. Touch and non-logical sounds such as "aaaahhhhh" help the patients learn how to deeply let go of all awareness. No extreme discomfort is felt (even the cancer pain) and what slight discomfort there is, is transcended.
He believed that many people who are in a "double bind" situation welcome cancer (or other serious illness) as a solution to some hopelessness or "inescapable doom". Fear of death is accompanied by a sense that relief is coming at last. With profound meditation people experience life quite differently and accompanying physiological changes may allow the immune system to resume its job. The result was recovery (for some) and a much improved quality of life for almost everyone.
In brief, Dr. Meares felt that anxiety precedes cancer (not, of course, denying other influences) and must be addressed with deep "reset" meditation.
To me, the possibilities for recovery from tms are well worth exploring. May as well not wait until things get worse than they already are. |
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Sylvia
199 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 09:17:43
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quote:
Originally posted by tmsjptc
Sylvia, I'm enjoying the de Mello book you provided a link to. Just read this excerpt:
"There’s a lovely saying of Tranxu, a great Chinese sage, that I took the trouble to learn by heart. It goes: “When the archer shoots for no particular prize, he has all his skills; when he shoots to win a brass buckle, he is already nervous; when he shoots for a gold prize, he goes blind, sees two targets, and is out of his mind. His skill has not changed, but the prize divides him. He cares! He thinks more of winning than of shooting, and the need to win drains him of power.” Isn’t that an image of what most people are? When you’re living for nothing, you’ve got all your skills, you’ve got all your energy, you’re relaxed, you don’t care, it doesn’t matter whether you win or lose."
Somehow this is related to something I deal with. When I'm concerned with what others think of me or how good my work is or a number of other things (like timing my run and seeing how fast I go), I notice TMS symptoms. When I remind myself that none of it really matters and I let go of an attachment to the outcome, then I find that I don't experience those TMS symptoms.
Thanks for sharing the link.
Ah, it is just me and you who likes him. That is good a party of two. If you would like a free download mp3 of Awareness, that was his live teaching, (the book is a transcript of it) here ya go.
http://awareness.tk/ |
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tmsjptc
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 10:13:41
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@Balto - yes, as I recall you called me out (nicely) on something I was in denial of. A bit late, but thanks for doing that
@Sylvia - unfortunately my employer apparently blocks access to the site you provided, so I couldn't get to it. But, maybe I'll check it out from home. I regularly read audiobooks because I get 2 hours of commuting everyday. So thanks again. |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 11:54:54
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Let me a bit a contrarian here (as expected from me).
I have done several meditation retreats from Ojai to Sonoma.
To repeat "calm, peace" for 3 hours IS mantra meditation despite what Dr.Meares says. It is the same as counting 1-2-3, chanting the name of a saint, or following your breath. There is no easy or hard meditation. It is very easy but hard to accomplish properly.
I am sure that Meares or De Mello were enlightened and pain free. But I am sure that they chose a very different life then what we live. That path is just not going to happen for us because of the life constraints we chose for ourselves.
There are studies that show that meditation for most of us (that do not dedicate our lives to it) offers a symptoms reduction in the 20% range on the pain scale. Most people that do meditation for pain reduction abandon it after a few years however.
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Sylvia
199 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 12:08:29
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| Anthony De Mello is not about meditation. No other life required. |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 12:12:37
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| No but he is enlightened. I don't know him but like others he must have experienced some sort of epiphany. You can learn from his books but it won't make you an enlightened, pain free being. For most of us we have to apply the recipes given to us by Sarno and others. |
Edited by - alix on 03/05/2013 12:53:45 |
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njoy
Canada
188 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 13:33:50
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Alix, my bad. I didn't mean you repeat "Calm, peace" throughout the meditation. That's the mindset and maybe you'd say it a few times just to settle yourself. Then, you don't repeat anything because that prevents the deepest possible experience. You simply let it happen.
There isn't much in the Zwar's book about diy. Much more on how Mearse carefully trained his cancer patients to reach a very deep level of meditation. I think it was several hours a day (in a group, in his offices) for six weeks before he was satisfied they had got it. Then they were mostly on their own but he often refers to occasional contact. Some of his most successful patients would divert, suffer setbacks and have to be brought back on track.
As I mentioned, Meares wrote many books but most are out of print. I'm searching for reasonable prices, at this point.
You also said, "I am sure that Meares or De Mello were enlightened and pain free. But I am sure that they chose a very different life then what we live. That path is just not going to happen for us because of the life constraints we chose for ourselves."
Actually, Meares was a hard working psychiatrist, under attack by his mainstream colleagues, with a wife and family -- the "whole catastrophe". He was famous for his gentle serenity (I saw him interviewed on tv and certainly noticed it) which he attributed to meditation. Not at all removed from real life.
As for De Mello, one of his main points (in the video, above) is that we choose our constraints and most of us have NO intention of letting them go. We think happiness lies in our constraints. I'm paraphrasing here but De Mello quotes Eric Berne (I think) who said most people don't want out of their ****, they just want fewer waves. Quite a metaphor!
For me, the phrenetic ambition I have personally suffered from all my life is no longer appropriate. I am old and will likely die within 4 or 5 years, at most. So De Mello speaks to me. Thanks, Sylvia.
As for Ainslie Meares, 45 years ago I was in a Quebec hospital (no English spoken) and used a little book by him to have a baby. Very successful even though the kid was transverse. So I'm a fan. As mentioned, I also saw him interviewed and he said some fascinating things that have shaped much of my thinking for the past 30 years.
So, I thought I'd mention it on the forum in case anyone else was interested. You never know.
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 14:07:40
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njoy, I appreciate you mentioning his work, don't get me wrong. But it is almost impossible for us to experience what those enlightened thinkers experience. We can learn from them and that can help some aspects of our lives of course.
Most of them experienced a major life transforming epiphany at some point and that is probably not going to happen to most of us. |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 14:12:41
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quote:
Originally posted by alix
njoy, I appreciate you mentioning his work, don't get me wrong. But it is almost impossible for us to experience what those enlightened thinkers experience. We can learn from them and that can help some aspects of our lives of course.
Most of them experienced a major life transforming epiphany at some point and that is probably not going to happen to most of us.
I seriously doubt I could achieve a loss of color vision through meditation. |
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njoy
Canada
188 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 16:03:13
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Alix said, "njoy, I appreciate you mentioning his work, don't get me wrong. But it is almost impossible for us to experience what those enlightened thinkers experience. We can learn from them and that can help some aspects of our lives of course.
Most of them experienced a major life transforming epiphany at some point and that is probably not going to happen to most of us."
Still I think it's a matter of our choices, especially regarding the direction we take in life. Dostoyevsky said something to the effect that knowing you are going to be shot in the morning concentrates the mind wonderfully. I suppose that's an epiphany. Aren't we ALL going there, some morning soon?
Anyway, I'm not trying to talk anybody out of their choices. Far from it.
Sylvia, thanks so much for the link at the top of this thread. It put many things in place for me. I'm sorry if I hijacked our thread to any degree. Just not thinking.
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 16:54:44
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Did the Meares method/practice something that helped you achieve a symptoms free state?
I have personally done 2 years of daily meditation, 90 minutes/day minimum and while it helped, that did not make me symptoms free.
In my case it is only when I did the psychological work in isolation, without distraction, that I really started to improve. |
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tmsjptc
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 17:23:31
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| This is definitely turning into an interesting string. I would agree that meditation isn't the end-all method for pain relief the way Sarno-work is. In my case, I got 80% of the way there with Sarno books and most of the rest of it with "enlightenment" authors like Tolle. I'm certainly no master, but in my opinion, enlightenment is available for all, not just a few. Granted, normally an epiphany is what helps bring it about. In my case, when I finally realized I had gone through 16 yrs of pain that I had given to myself, it was essentially an epiphany. I was blown away that this was possible and I began to question practically everything that I'd previously believed in. |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2013 : 17:34:34
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| I agree, Tolle's books are fantastic. Very accessible and very usable. He made me realize so clearly what was driving my unexplained variations in symptoms and that was priceless. |
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The Ultimate Teeumass Cure
