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RikR
USA
94 Posts |
 Posted - 02/26/2013 : 07:56:27
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I know a deregulated nervous system can not only produce physical symptoms but also mental: anxiety – morbid thoughts – insomnia –OCD - panic and so on. I don’t see much discussion of these from members here.
Are these not common with TMS??? |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2013 : 09:18:24
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Hi RikR,
Oh yes, in my opinion they are all connected to TMS, perhaps equivalents. Are you familiar with the search feature? For example if you type in “anxiety” you will get to 108 pages that contain the word. That’s 2,160 threads that have the word and it’s highlighted in yellow. I find the best way to sieve through them is to pick a poster with an issue like mine and then go to that poster’s other threads around that time frame. Old threads are excellent you don’t have to wait for an answer.
As far as insomnia chickenbone discussed this recently.
Good luck
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Stopped Wiki Edu Program in lieu of own journalling
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2013 : 09:55:43
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| Look up posts by hillbilly. This is a much discussed topic. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2013 : 10:06:38
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Andy gives good advice, "SEARCH IS YOUR FRIEND", someone once said. The Good Doctor calls those symptoms you refer to as "AFFECTIVE" symptoms. When the gremlin sees that you're getting TMS savvy to the physical symptom distractions, it starts playing hard-ball with affective symptoms--depresson's a grand one.
G'luck,
tt/lsmft
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
"...the human emotional system was not designed to endure the mental rigors of a tennis match." Dr. Allen Fox
======================================================
"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod =================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
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KristenG
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2013 : 13:02:47
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My TMS started out as anxiety/panic. It fact, we because "good" friends for close to 2 years. I was to the point that I didn't want to leave the house. I also had depersonalization/derealization too. I found a website online and ended up doing a program from that site. It was a tremendous help to me. I don't know that I should mention the program for 2 reasons: I don't want anyone to think that I am promoting or trying to sell anything. Secondly, the programs creator was a member here once and was run off for the same reason. IF you are really in need, send me an email and I will give you the web address.
Kristen
Worry is the misuse of imagination. |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2013 : 13:20:15
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I really think tms, anxiety, panic, cfs, ibs, gout,... are just different symptoms of the same disease, mindbody disease.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2013 : 17:13:40
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Yes, I agree with the posts here. In fact, Ace's Keys are mostly about realizing that us TMSers have a revved up central nervous system and the keys try to help us regulate it through mindfullness, relaxation, affirmations, etc. I know that once I was able to calm down my nervous system even a little, my symptoms right away became more manageable.
I think there is a see/saw effect (TT is right about this) between our mind and body symptoms. If we feel more physical symptoms, such as chronic pain, IBS, etc, we will generally feel less psychological symptoms like anxiety, panic and depression. If we think and behave in a way that causes us TMS symptoms, those symptoms will be expressed whether we like it or not. Try as we might, we can't get rid of them by, for example, repressing distressing thoughts and emotions. In such cases, the see/saw effect will cause us to develop unpleasant physical sensations. It is useful to remember that once we get down to the nitty gritty with our healing process, and we begin to successfully rout out our physical symptoms, we are likely to at least temporarily experience more anxiety, depression and even panic. This is because we have "blown the cover" so to speak, of the TMS strategy itself. Once we have it on the run, we can also expect that the strategy will strike back by creating even scarier physical symptoms in a desperate attempt to not allow the mental issues to come to light. The decision to heal should not be taken lightly because we must be prepared for the consequences which could be most unpleasant. Our healing involves this back and forth and back and forth until the strategy gives up. This can be quite nerve-wracking and not for the faint of heart. If we are serious about healing, I think we do well to expect this sort of thing. |
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susan828
USA
291 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2013 : 17:53:40
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Rik, years ago I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia. Way before I knew about Sarno. Now I see that fibro and TMS are just about the same. I was in a fibro chat room for 2 years. I started to see a "fibro" personality. We all have anxiety, panic attacks, depression. And basically, this was a really nice bunch of people, sensitive, too sensitive for this world. It's the same thing here. I know you're relatively new here but yup, anxiety is so common. Type it in the search bar and you'll most likely see posts or type fibromyalgia anxiety in google, same thing.
I left that chat room because the people there were resigned to a life of complaining and getting on disability. I didn't want to see myself as a "fibro person" (they had a pet name which I forgot). I went to a rheumatologist here who was wonderful; he told me he can see that I am a fighter. I knew little about it then and thought I'd wind up in a wheelchair; I was in that much pain from head to toe and I was scared to death. Reading Sarno was amazing. Finally someone understood me. |
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KristenG
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2013 : 18:23:31
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quote:
Originally posted by chickenbone
I think there is a see/saw effect (TT is right about this) between our mind and body symptoms. If we feel more physical symptoms, such as chronic pain, IBS, etc, we will generally feel less psychological symptoms like anxiety, panic and depression.
AND
It is useful to remember that once we get down to the nitty gritty with our healing process, and we begin to successfully rout out our physical symptoms, we are likely to at least temporarily experience more anxiety, depression and even panic. This is because we have "blown the cover" so to speak, of the TMS strategy itself. Once we have it on the run, we can also expect that the strategy will strike back by creating even scarier physical symptoms in a desperate attempt to not allow the mental issues to come to light. The decision to heal should not be taken lightly because we must be prepared for the consequences which could be most unpleasant. Our healing involves this back and forth and back and forth until the strategy gives up. This can be quite nerve-wracking and not for the faint of heart. If we are serious about healing, I think we do well to expect this sort of thing.
I couldn't agree more with what you've said, chickenbone.
Worry is the misuse of imagination. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2013 : 18:42:33
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quote:
Originally posted by KristenG
I found a website online and ended up doing a program from that site. It was a tremendous help to me. I don't know that I should mention the program
Jim Folk's anxiety website is the best on this subject.
http://www.anxietycentre.com/
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"The urge to just be done with what we are doing and to go on to the next task is the number one cause of tms and everything is compounded on top of this. It is so ingrained that most will not see it even when they are told that it is there. It took me a long time to see this and figure this out through deductive reasoning. It also explains why our society has a lot of back pain but it is non-existent in the tribal community." --- Ace |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2013 : 18:51:50
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quote:
Originally posted by balto
I really think tms, anxiety, panic, cfs, ibs, gout,... are just different symptoms of the same disease, mindbody disease.
Agreed Balto, that is why Dr. Sarno, after conferring with Dr. Marc Sopher, changed the wording of the acronym TMS from Tension Myositis Syndrome to THE MINDBODY SYNDROME.
http://www.tms-mindbodymedicine.com/ |
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KristenG
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2013 : 05:16:51
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quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
quote:
Originally posted by KristenG
I found a website online and ended up doing a program from that site. It was a tremendous help to me. I don't know that I should mention the program
Jim Folk's anxiety website is the best on this subject.
http://www.anxietycentre.com/
*************************
"The urge to just be done with what we are doing and to go on to the next task is the number one cause of tms and everything is compounded on top of this. It is so ingrained that most will not see it even when they are told that it is there. It took me a long time to see this and figure this out through deductive reasoning. It also explains why our society has a lot of back pain but it is non-existent in the tribal community." --- Ace
Haha! I like that you just put it out there, Shawn!
That is not the site that I used though.I am glad you've found something that works for you. Someone has already emailed me to ask which site it was. Once I told him/her, they proceeded to tell me why it wasn't any good.<shaking my head> Um...It was good for ME, that's all that mattered at the time. YMMV
Kristen
Worry is the misuse of imagination. |
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RikR
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2013 : 06:52:11
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I know Jim Folk and his anxiety web site is full of great information and he has a really good grasp on the condition. Jim has no formal education or professional license but has done a great job in collecting information and learning from his own recovery.
My only caution is his counseling staff, many have no certified credentials and from several people I have known that tried them they were not effective.
You have to be careful with on-line therapists. Many have purchased credentials and have not done the real educational work a competent therapist has. Ask them for their college name granting their degree and look it up. Then ask if they have a state license and what it is.
Most state license boards prohibit licensed therapist from doing telephone and on-line therapy. Coaches are permitted to do off-site counseling but they are not licensed to do therapy and there are no oversight on their competence or if they are anything but a guy in his underwear talking to you on the phone.
This is not to say that fully licensed psychologists are competent. Many I know concern me and I know a lot of them as colleagues. If you do not feel like you are making progress in a few visits seek other options. If you are looking for anxiety treatment find a therapist that treats only anxiety disorders – you will make the best progress as anxiety treatment is not something most schools teach in enough depth to make a competent therapist. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2013 : 07:46:35
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I did use their counselors, but I agree with you that the information contained on Jim's page is of tremendous value and subscription is relatively inexpensive. I learned a lot from that website, including the anxiety is a learned behavior and not the result of a chemical imbalance which requires medication to correct. Mindfulness exercises are also great for anxiety.
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"The urge to just be done with what we are doing and to go on to the next task is the number one cause of tms and everything is compounded on top of this. It is so ingrained that most will not see it even when they are told that it is there. It took me a long time to see this and figure this out through deductive reasoning. It also explains why our society has a lot of back pain but it is non-existent in the tribal community." --- Ace |
Edited by - shawnsmith on 02/27/2013 09:41:19 |
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RikR
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2013 : 08:30:54
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The only brain chemical imbalance in anxiety is after you take a psyche drug. I spent 12 years working in psyche drug detox and recovery - the withdrawal can take years to recover from
TMS program= no side effects and no withdrawal |
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2013 : 09:32:16
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| Balto/Shawn - great points. |
Edited by - bryan3000 on 02/27/2013 09:45:51 |
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2013 : 09:38:36
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quote:
Originally posted by bryan3000
quote:
Originally posted by RikR
My only caution is his counseling staff, many have no certified credentials
Hi Rik,
I'm also a big fan of AnxietyCentre. After doing tireless research into nearly every anxiety resource available online, and seeing a laundry list of "real" therapists, I finally was led to AnxietyCentre. (By someone who had used their info in their own successful healing.)
To me, there is AnxietyCentre, and everything else is a distant second. I have worked with one of their counselors and have found it tremendously helpful.
But, your post strikes me as worthy of following up on. The site states that their "coaches" are Masters Level Counselors. Each coach lists credentials in great detail, including their own history with anxiety/panic. ("TMS")
So, I'm wondering since you mentioned it which one of their counselors is not credentialed as their bio states? Of course, people fake medical and other licenses all the time... but I'm curious as to specifically what information you have and on which counselor? Since many here have used and recommend the site, it seems like a disservice to only imply this info... as opposed to following up with exact details.
Here are the specifics with regards to their program. (Of which I am not affiliated, of course.)
The therapists we list in our Personal Coaching section are the result of our search. Each recommended therapist was selected based on a strict set of criteria.
For example, each therapist must have experienced anxiety disorder, must have successfully overcome it, and must be medication-free for at least the last five years. We believe personal experience with anxiety disorder is an invaluable asset when helping others.
We also required that each therapist be professionally trained as a therapist, so all of our recommended therapists have attained their Masters Degree in counseling (or equivalent, or above). We believe this level of training also is required to provide effective counseling services to those who are struggling with anxiety disorder.
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Edited by - bryan3000 on 02/27/2013 09:44:35 |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2013 : 11:08:51
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| RikR, I find it so interesting about your background in psych drug detox and recovery. I am struggling with trying to stop a small dose of amitriptyline. I have taken a low dose (25) for about 20 years. For about half of that time I took it as triavil (4 50). I only took it because of sleep problems and anxiety, not because of depression. I got on it after my first husband passed away from cancer about 20 years ago. It always gave me some sedation at night, but not enough so I added a small dose of Ambien for the last 8 years (because I no longer had access to the triavil). Now I am off the Ambien for about a month. I had a parathyroid tumor removed (benign) five months ago. Prior to having the tumor removed, I was having a lot of mental problems due to the high calcium in my blood. After the surgery, it was like a miracle in the way I felt. Anyway, the only problem I still had was sleep which I have been working on. Now, after the surgery, the amitriptyline no longer gives me sedation at night, in fact it seems to be hyping me up. So I stopped it at night and take half of the 25 in the morning with an intention of getting rid of it completely. How long do you think it could take for me to completely rid myself of the effect of the antidepressant? |
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RikR
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2013 : 12:08:52
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Chicken
Most of the current research shows the genetics are the deciding factor in how hard is it to stop a psyche drug and if there will be any withdrawal. An excellent site is: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?s=3f282e7bc0602c8102369f69aa213fd1&act=idx or Paxil Progress.
Don’t look at the horror stories as many of these people have other major problems. That you stopped the Ambien without problems is a very good sign.
Bryan
Having a master in counseling has little meaning unless you know the institution that granted it and the course work. A real master in counseling is a 6 year program – there are schools that confer an MA in a year or less or all on line. My education was a 9 year program and I was totally unprepared to know about true anxiety therapy.
I have a second doctorate – this one is a Doctorate of Divinity –want to get married I can do it. A good friend bought the degree for me as a joke 20 years ago.
The really good anxiety therapists have a PhD – studied in an anxiety only treatment setting and had a mentor therapist who had been an anxiety therapist for a significant time. People like Dr. Paul Foxman or Dr. Ed Bourne |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2013 : 12:24:39
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What is this, a competition to see who has the most degrees? One does not have to possess a PhD to be an excellent therapist, just like one does not have to possess a PhD in Divinity to be close to God. I have lots of degrees in a number of areas and I still don't know a damn thing about anything. Ekhart Tolle writes:
"I usually congratulate people when they tell me, “I don't know who I
am anymore.” Then they look perplexed and ask, “Are you saying it is a
good thing to be confused?” I ask them to investigate. What does it mean to
be confused? “I don't know “ is not confusion. Confusion is: “I don't know,
but I should know” or “I don't know, but I need to know.” is it possible to let
go of the belief that you should or need to know who you are? In other
words, can you cease looking to conceptual definitions to give you a sense of
self? Can you cease looking to thought for an identity? When you let go of
the belief that you should or need to know who you are, what happens to
confusion? Suddenly it is gone. When you fully accept that you don't know, you actually enter a state of peace and clarity that is closer to who you truly are than thought could ever be. Defining yourself through thought is limiting yourself.
"PREESTABLISHED ROLES
"Of course different people fulfill different functions in this world. It
cannot be otherwise. As far as intellectual or physical abilities are concerned
– knowledge, skills, talents, and energy levels – human beings differ widely.
What really matters is not what function you fulfill in this world, but whether
you identify with your function to such an extent that it takes you over and
becomes a role that you play. When you play roles, you are unconscious.
When you catch yourself playing a role, that recognition creates a space
between you and the role. It is the beginning of freedom from the role. When
you are completely identified with a role, you confuse a pattern of behavior with who you are, and you take yourself very seriously. You also automatically assign roles to others that corresponding to yours. For example, when you visit doctors who are totally identified with their role, to them you will not be a human being but a patient or a case history."
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"The urge to just be done with what we are doing and to go on to the next task is the number one cause of tms and everything is compounded on top of this. It is so ingrained that most will not see it even when they are told that it is there. It took me a long time to see this and figure this out through deductive reasoning. It also explains why our society has a lot of back pain but it is non-existent in the tribal community." --- Ace |
Edited by - shawnsmith on 02/27/2013 12:30:07 |
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RikR
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2013 : 13:30:09
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Chicken
This part of my note to you got left off....sorry. Amitriptyline has an action on several neurotransmitters – the major being norepinephrine which is hormone that is part of the fight-or-flight reaction.....and yes it certainly can hype you up. |
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Mental Symptoms
