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pan
United Kingdom
173 Posts |
 Posted - 02/20/2013 : 12:45:04
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....pretty much all damn day long.
I'm trying to understand the illogical thought process that won't fully allow me to commit to the TMS/stress illness diagnosis.
Basically I've been suffering from one sided lower back pain and leg pain for about 2 and a half years. The pain is only about a 5 out of 10 so I understand I'm luckier than many people but it truly is a blight on my life and is the cause of much anger and frustration (go figure). Before the back pain started I had a period of extreme health anxiety due to a period of about 3 years when I was getting various weird and wonderful symptoms which I catastrophised as various nasties. I recovered from this and thought that all the anxiety issues had been eradicated but the back pain has made me question this.
When the back pain first started it would flare up very slightly and would last as little as a day then would disappear...I could then be pain free for months on end but it would always return. The flare ups have become far more prevalent now and the intensity of the pain has increased. I do have a huge number of factors that point to a stress illness possibility in that I have lost my mother, father and step father to cancer in the space of 2 years, I have a little boy who has made me question many things, I have quite a volatile relationship with my wife, I am in a job I detest and that changes daily which really pulls me out of my comfort zone...I'm also stressed as I'm having to finance a house I've inherited which is a real strain logistically and financially and I'm desperate to sell the place.
Anyway, all that aside I have seen various GP's and Osteopaths who have advised me that I have all the usual suspects such as piriformis syndrome, SI joint dysfunction etc etc and it has been pretty much drummed into me that my pain is originating from a structural issue.
I have to laugh as I recently revisited the osteopath pretty much out of desperation and I knew I may well as have chucked £30 down the drain as I knew I wouldn't get any answers and that as I had no faith in them and therefore any witchcraft would fail to strike home. Once again I was given the same stretches to do and the same core strength message. It was all about muscle imbalance and twisted pelvises etc etc.
So, here is the thing and the quandary I've been thinking on today. For the past 2 years I've been treating this as structural issue and doing all the stretches and exercises and have had zero improvement, its actually got worse. Now, I run almost every day and can do a sub 2 hour half marathon...I have no pain when stretching etc but the pain is just always there and seems totally independent on movement etc. with all this in mind what the hell do I have to lose by treating this as a manifestation of a stress illness??
I know they say a sign of madness is to do the same thing over and over and expect things to be different so in that respect I must be bonkers. The thing is it just feels so risky to accept the stress illness theory and commit to it and that is what I'm struggling to get my head around...why is it hard to commit to something that actually carries little or no,intrinsic risk, its almost like your mind doesn't want you to commit as it knows that is what will break the cycle.
Anyway, apologies for waffling on...any opinions please.
Wake me up with your amphetamine blast
Take me by the collar and throw me out into the world
Rock me gently & send me dreaming of something tender
I was brought here to pay homage to the beat surrender
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Edited by - pan on 02/20/2013 12:58:56 |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 13:01:20
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Sorry to hear of your suffering Pan, I really am, and I know exactly how you feel. Although they are all interrelated, take a look at Ace's keys to healing numbers 3 and 12 and see if they apply to your situation. For quick reference, here are the keys again: http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7765
Also today, I posted a series of audio links from Ekhart Tolle which may be of assistance to you as you reflect on your current situation. Listen especially to the ones marked with a star. Note, Ace highly recommends Eckhart Tolle's work. See: http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8097
We cannot personally convince you that you have TMS -- you will have to come to that conclusion on your own. But what you do in the meantime to reduce the impact of that incessant mind-chatter, which leads to suffering, is the major first step.
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Edited by - shawnsmith on 02/20/2013 13:08:21 |
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pan
United Kingdom
173 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 13:11:20
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quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
Sorry to hear of your suffering Pan, I really am, and I know exactly how you feel. Although they are all interrelated, take a look at Ace's keys to healing numbers 3 and 12 and see if they apply to your situation. For quick reference, here are the keys again: http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7765
Also today, I posted a series of audio links from Ekhart Tolle which may be of assistance to you as you reflect on your current situation. Listen especially to the ones marked with a star. Note, Ace highly recommends Eckhart Tolle's work. See: http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8097
Cheers for the reply shawn really appreciated.
Well, the thing is I'm all bloody theoried out if that makes sense....lol!
I've read all the books...and I mean ALL the books and whilst I totally buy into the theory of MBS and stress illness walking the walk as opposed to talking the talk Is the problem for me...it's almost like I've over analysed the thing to the nth degree but now have information overload and struggle to apply it. I think there is an element of that age old forum thing as well as being able to see screaming TMS is one person but just doubting it in yourself.
I suppose that is the point I was making. I can't actually see why I cannot currently take that leap of faith and repudiate the structural diagnose even though having treated it as structural for 2 years has not served me well whatsoever. It really doesn't make much sense but there you go.
Wake me up with your amphetamine blast
Take me by the collar and throw me out into the world
Rock me gently & send me dreaming of something tender
I was brought here to pay homage to the beat surrender
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Edited by - pan on 02/20/2013 13:12:48 |
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RageSootheRatio
Canada
430 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 13:44:36
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Hi Pan,
perhaps it is really not so much a decision you are making in your "thinking brain" but that your emotional brain has decided it just doesn't want to go there? That the emotional brain is protecting itself from feeling the feelings you don't really want to feel at all, and that going round and round in your thinking is also very protective of your feelings?
just an idea.
RSR |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 13:47:01
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Being "bloody theoried out" makes a lot of sense to me. Like you, I have read a lot of TMS books and the information can be overwhelming, especially when the information can be a bit dense, confusing and contradictory. Eventually, after reading all this material, one becomes burnt out and feels like throwing up their hands.
But I feel that the work that Ace is doing here goes beyond theory and helps us to enter into acceptance of the moment as it is right now. This is not a way of thinking we are accustomed to and thus it is quite a challenge to the catastrophic way of thinking of our incessant chattering minds.
Assume, Pan, that your don't have TMS and your doctors are correct. So then what? Here Ace, as well as Balto, is telling us we need to embrace the moment without judgement or desire to change it. It takes time, but is achievable if we remain both patient and persistent. Don't worry if you slip at times, you are only human after all. |
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gigalos
Netherlands
310 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 14:37:28
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I'm pretty new to the field, so forgive me for telling things you might have heard or read multiple times yourself. But maybe, just maybe, a rookie view on things might help (I hope).
I still have the occasional doubts. I recognize your anxiety about health. I also was told about the SI-joint blabla. When I walk or lie down I especially have doubts, because it feels so much like something is not aligned. What is helping me is that I have some experience with trigger point therapy. I believe that triggerpoints (litte spasmed locations in muscles) are caused by the brain. I therefore believe that it is entirely possible to get mis-aligned from muscles that are strained by triggerpoints. So it is not only pain that might misalign you, it might be real muscle shortening too. This theory might be boloney, but at the moment it helps me overcome any doubts about this feeling and I am therefore, most of the time, able to see it as a mindbody symptom.
I decided to stick to one book, your information overload statement is exactly the reason for deciding that. Maybe it's an idea to go back to the beginning by picking your two best books and put all others in a box and put it in the attic.
hope there is something in my post that can help you...
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pan
United Kingdom
173 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 14:49:39
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Thanks for the replies guys.
Funnily enough I just watched one of Monte's videos on YouTube and he talked in that how very often getting bogged down in all the theory is an element of TMS in itself as this process also allows you to become distracted..this makes sense to me.
Living in the UK TMS practioners are quite thin on the ground but I did have a brief chat with Georgie Oldfield today and she put me on to a chap in Bristol called Matt Kinal who I'm hoping to see next week. He is a physiotherapist but who works from a holistic and TMS thesis and she thinks he would be an ideal person to ascertain if my problem is likely to be stress illness...same as most people I feel a solid diagnosis from a TMS practioners will go a long way to helping me commit.
Wake me up with your amphetamine blast
Take me by the collar and throw me out into the world
Rock me gently & send me dreaming of something tender
I was brought here to pay homage to the beat surrender
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 15:29:15
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| Pan, be a little bit mindful that searching for TMS practitioners can be a full time distraction. I have driven 100s of miles up and down California to find "the one". It was all a nocebo at the end as I analyzed every reaction they had. The last one I saw finally advised me to consider a "gluten free" diet and told me that Feldenkreis works great for her husband. So much for TMS. The solution was within myself. |
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pan
United Kingdom
173 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 15:37:55
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quote:
Originally posted by alix
Pan, be a little bit mindful that searching for TMS practitioners can be a full time distraction. I have driven 100s of miles up and down California to find "the one". It was all a nocebo at the end as I analyzed every reaction they had. The last one I saw finally advised me to consider a "gluten free" diet and told me that Feldenkreis works great for her husband. So much for TMS. The solution was within myself.
Good point alix...funny thing as I already checked out this guys credentials and stuff and was working out in my mind if I would feel comfortable believing him if he did give me a stress illness diagnosis. I know what you mean when you say the solution is within yourself...leaving that aside I'm so well read on the bloody subject I probably know as much as any practioners. Funny how we need constant reassurance and validation hey. Must admit to being one of those people who has always wanted a big buxom nurse to take me in her arms and tell me all will be well whenever I'm poorly sick. ;)
Wake me up with your amphetamine blast
Take me by the collar and throw me out into the world
Rock me gently & send me dreaming of something tender
I was brought here to pay homage to the beat surrender
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 15:54:45
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| Pan, it really started to click when I dug into my emotions. No new books. No new theory. Nothing. Every time I was distracted by the pain, I turned my attention to my emotions (past and present). |
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plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 16:05:21
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pan, I relate to much of what you say here, including the desire for confirmation from a tms professional. Doubt easily undermines our conviction and faith, hence the reading. During the past fortnight I have spoken with Georgie Oldfield and Howard Schubiner...
Essentially I feel as Alix does on this front; the answer, the healing lies within. This is why I've been filling my boots on this forum for a short while. I'm pretty clear on my path now and as hillbilly advised, I shall stick to it like glue. Gigalos has the right idea.
Anyways, I sent you mail. |
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pan
United Kingdom
173 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 16:20:44
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Thanks for the reply Plum. Emailed you back with a different addy as the one on here is redundant I believe. Is from waaaayyy back in the day. :)
Wake me up with your amphetamine blast
Take me by the collar and throw me out into the world
Rock me gently & send me dreaming of something tender
I was brought here to pay homage to the beat surrender
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 16:44:52
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For me the most meaningful post on this board that guided me is the one from Dave. I printed it, made a PDF etc... I constantly referred to it throughout this journey. It is the 8th post down:
http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6169
At the end of the day, it is all I ever needed to know. That was the key to my cure. |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 18:10:08
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| Hi Pan, maybe I can relate to you how I was able to resolve this issue. Believe me, I still have a lot of TMS issues, but fortunately "doubting TMS" is not one of them. It was a stumbling block for a long time.And by the way, my TMS symptoms did not just involve pain. I had at different times GERD, frequent urination, heart palpitations, terrible allergies to everything, anxiety attacks, and IBS. I ran to several doctors for various of these symptoms. In Panama, doctors (the honest ones anyway), tend to tell you what they really think because they do not need to worry about being sued. A lot of them, after testing, basically said that my symptoms were not manifestations of physical disease. Unfortunately, the more you see doctors, the more you will have problems with TMS because this tends to feed the TMS strategy. Whenever I would bring up the idea of seeing an Orthopedic Surgeon about my back pain, my doctor husband would assure me that they had absolutely nothing to offer me and that included all manner of back specialists. He especially warned me that these people were very likely to give me some REAL physical problems that I did not have before. To them everything is physical. I knew that my husband was right. However, it took several more years to really make the leap of faith away from the physical. What finally did it for me was 1. I found the courage to start high impact aerobics. Often during the class, I was just praying because I was so scared I would really hurt myself. But guess what, after all this jumping around and banging on my joints and twisting and contorting, I felt great and free from pain. I came to firmly believe that my pain could not possibly have been structural (Although a Orthopedic doctor told me not to lift more the 2 pounds (and I was lifting 10) and NO EXERCISE). 2. I needed some science to cinch my new belief. So I read a few books written by Neuroscientists and Orthopedic Surgeons who believed in MBS/TMS. I learned that it has been proven scientifically that the brain is fully capable of producing pain or symptoms anywhere in the body on it´s own. I did not read a ton of books and get confused, I read the books I needed to read to help me believe what I KNEW to be the truth, but which my Ego did not want me to find out. |
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Peregrinus
250 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 20:32:59
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Pan:
Let me know when you have it all figured out! I have similar problems: back pain on the right side, hip and groin pain on the same side, and occasional other pains here and there. I had a lot of work stress before I retired and I have a house I want to sell! (Sound familiar?) I ride a bike almost every day for about 2 hours and really push it for someone my age. It’s been going on for about 7 years. At times it seems to improve and occasionally I’m pain free for a few hours.
I have also become “book saturated” and it seems like they are all saying the same thing. I believe TMS is my problem but I find anecdotal testimonies distracting. I’ve been studying Ace’s keys to healing and have attempted to rewrite them so they are understandable and pertinent to me. His views reflect his own experience to some extent but are otherwise general in nature and I think widely applicable.
You are fortunate that you have discovered TMS so early in your life. Don’t give up (by seeing osteopaths, chiropractors, spinal surgeons, etc.) and, as Ace urges, have patience.
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2013 : 21:39:47
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Pan and Chickenbone, If you would try to look for a common point in what you've posted, fear would be it. All the symptoms you two have are there to produce fear, to make you anticipate what will happen to your body? What these symptoms mean, oh my Gosh I'm going to....
What caused the symptoms are stress, traumatic events, anger, hatred,... but what keep the symptoms there are your fear of the future.
If you have backpain and you are not worry about you going to be paralyze, or this pain will be chronic, or it will cause permanent nerve damage... the pain will leave you.
If you can stop yourself from thinking about what will happen to your body because of this pain or symptoms, the symptoms will lessen and eventually leave.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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pan
United Kingdom
173 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2013 : 01:54:47
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Hi balto...yep, totally agree about the fear factor in all of this. When I was struggling with the health anxiety fear and the worry of what the symptoms meant was often a driving factor.
Strangely enough, I discovered the idea of TMS early on in my health anxiety days and was sure I had elements of it within my stress illness. I remember vividly reading about TMS and posting on here with my chest pain issues etc and in a way wishing I had back pain as this would fit Sarno's thesis much better and I'd be better able to accept...fast forward a few years and looks what happening...ho hum.
Yep, the constant monitoring and appraisal of my pain and symptoms is huge and I'm constantly hunting out clues, that never exist of course, which could indicate that my pain is structural. The idea that my pain will get worse and worse and debilitate me is huge. I recall the first osteopath I saw dropped into the conversion that she had seen SI joint patients end up in wheelchairs as their condition got so bad....yeah, thanks for that, from tiny acorns etc etc.
Thinking on this again last night and one of the factors that gets me is that even though I'm a poster child for TMS and that the last 5 years of my life have been a total stress and emotional overload this doesn't necessarily mean that my pain is TMS...stress and emotional overload can exist quite happily alongside a structural issue and that's what I need to move on from.
Just wondering as well, how important are dreams in all of this. I've noticed that my dreams are pretty vivid and seem to be focused on aspects of my parents passing etc. I have a feeling that guilt may be an issue for me in all of this but that's a whole other story...
Wake me up with your amphetamine blast
Take me by the collar and throw me out into the world
Rock me gently & send me dreaming of something tender
I was brought here to pay homage to the beat surrender
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Edited by - pan on 02/21/2013 01:56:47 |
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Cath
116 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2013 : 04:31:40
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Hi Pan
I am still on the healing path along with a lot of others here, but can identify with a lot of your story. I've grappled with the structural theory too, but am now totally convinced that my pain is stress related. And by the way, I think you hit the nail on the head with your last comments. My pain began just 8 months after my Mum passed away from cancer. There were a lot of other family issues going on at the time too, so I was already pretty hyped up. I've come to realise that my pain is related to the fact that I didn't properly grieve for my Mum, and also that I didn't allow myself to get close enough to her in her last few weeks to let her know just how much I was going to miss her. In fact, I didn't know how much I was going to miss her because I felt so emotionally numb. I felt guilty that I hadn't expressed what I truly felt while she was still around.
Don't know whether any of this resonates, and I only lost one beloved parent, so can't imagine how you felt losing both parents and a step-parent.
Sounds like you've had a pretty tough time, so go easy on yourself, let go and allow some of those feelings to surface. |
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pan
United Kingdom
173 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2013 : 05:32:35
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Crikey Cath….tell me about it.
Of course, now isn’t the place to go into the details of my mother’s death but the feelings you mention ring very true for me as well.
When my mum was diagnosed with terminal cancer she was given about 4 months to live and 4 months was what she got…as much as you want those 4 months to be a loving and amazing time it doesn’t always work that way as real life still gets in the way. There was unfortunately stress, frustration and arguments. I carry the guilt with me that my mums last months weren’t those idealistic walking in the sunshine times but I made sure she was close to her Grandson which was so important to her.
I too don’t really feel I have grieved for my mum…she passed in October and the tears still haven’t come. Funny thing is my dad died about 2 years ago and I was never close to him as had a volatile relationship with him as a lad…my mum and dad divorced when I was a teenager and both had remarried. I had lost contact with my dad for a lot of the time and just really spoke on the phone. Whilst I loved my mum to bits I never could say I loved my father or even liked him hugely for that matter but his death really shook me and I cried and seemed to grieve easily for him. This just hasn’t happened with my mum and I just can’t figure out why.
I think for me it’s a weird thing as I feel in many ways I’m now alone in the world. Yes, I have my wife and young son but the death of both your parents does make you realise that your foundations have gone…I may be a 45 year old grown man but this still makes you think.
So yes, I’m feeling much the same as you. I do have guilt and I also feel emotionally numb at this moment in time regarding my mums death….as strange as it seems I even have tried to force myself to cry but this just feels stilted, unnatural and just false. I also have that horrible horrible feeling of having not told my mum just how much I loved her before she died. Even though we were close we rarely hugged or kissed and never rarely told each other we loved each other…when she died I regretted this. I know she knew just what she meant to me but I had a duty to tell her this but the words never really came out.
Anyway, I’m waffling…maybe I should journal. ;)
Wake me up with your amphetamine blast
Take me by the collar and throw me out into the world
Rock me gently & send me dreaming of something tender
I was brought here to pay homage to the beat surrender
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Cath
116 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2013 : 06:36:50
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Your relationship with your Mum sounds a lot like mine. It's almost 5 years since she passed away now, and I still miss her, but I think I've worked through a lot of that numbness and the guilt. My Mum died just 3 months after diagnosis, and like you, I wanted that time to really count, but it slipped away so quickly, and she deteriorated so soon.
I tried to tell a friend just how guilty I felt, and she pointed out to me that it wasn't my fault that I couldn't act in the way that I really wanted to in those last few weeks, by hugging her and telling her how much she meant to me. Our patterns of behaviour were instigated by her, as the parent, many years ago. As her behaviour was moulded by her parents. I did seek counselling, because journalling wasn't enough, and in one of my sessions, the Counsellor asked me to really think about my Mum. Almost conjure her up as a presence beside you. (Ok, a bit creepy, but I did have my eyes closed and was lying down.) She then asked me what I would like to say to her if she was still here now. And I croaked, "just how much I love her and miss her." Then the flood gates opened. When I walked out of that session, I felt like a great weight had been lifted.
I think it's necessary to work through your grief; resolve it and become comfortable with yourself again. Sounds like your Mum was a major stabiliser in your life. I remember telling someone that I almost felt like I was floundering without mine.
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pan
United Kingdom
173 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2013 : 12:11:20
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Grrr...damn the constant need for information gathering.
Watching a couple of Monte's vids on YouTube and then stumbled across one for some physio guy who explained all about how muscle imbalance begins and thenleads to pain which fitted my presentation and osteo diagnosis like a glove. Talk about one step forward and three back. Very true that constant researching just doesn't help once you have grasped the basic concept.
Wake me up with your amphetamine blast
Take me by the collar and throw me out into the world
Rock me gently & send me dreaming of something tender
I was brought here to pay homage to the beat surrender
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Trying to solve this riddle....
