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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
 Posted - 02/11/2013 : 20:56:47
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look shawn i see that you have delt with your repression
gone over them till it was enough
im not saying for you shawn to go back to your repressions
i really think all you have to do is aces keys
i was just commenting on what we all know as the subconscious-the holy spirit-the go with your gut thing-that feeling and etc-
we can call it what we want but for the site and in science its still called -well ya know.
i wasnt even going there but i had to say what i said for a reason
i had a gut feeling it needed to be expressed-not to make shawn or you ace of less affect.
i needed to know what i missed.but at the same time i had to know why the names were being changed
see the hallmark is we face the repressions that lie in our sub-un-gut-spirit-call it what you will and i did defend the subconscious not to argue but to get to the bottom of what did i miss
really if we take that out-it makes sarnos books hard to understand you see
but shawn your passed that and if you still like me and i think you do
i would love to finish our conversation on the phone soon
ace if you believe slightly different than sarno then i really respect that.your name is in my profile.so to make a long story short.
i didnt understand the animosity of the word-now i do-
i know we have stressors everyday that keep us reved up and tense
we have to learn to get them under control.
i did notice how all the stress seemed to flood me after i healed
so i just kicked the meditations and affirmations in overdrive
if we think its easy on the mind after we heal-just be prepared
we have to really learn to change a lot-and stay changed
its like a whole makeover....
now did you see what i said there at the end chickenbone
i had stress flood me after i healed-now if my mind was keeping me from this rage,
and i learned how to heal from the tms-which is keeping me safe from the rage, then where did the flood of stressful emotions come from?
something to think about-
it was like i had to learn to be calm again and i did.....
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Edited by - eric watson on 02/11/2013 21:28:05 |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 22:39:01
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Balto, My lower back has never hurt in my life and while I do the TMS work, I get a giant jolt in the lower back! Do you really believe that is all conscious?
Why would I get that jolt if it is just a conscious thought? It never happened before in my life and I had plenty of time to think about mortality without consequences. |
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plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2013 : 01:15:35
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quote:
Originally posted by jegol71
Is fearing mortality a form of suicide?
When the dance is sacrificed to God, what becomes of the dancer? |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2013 : 05:16:29
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quote:
Originally posted by EileenTM
What convinced me there was a reservoir of rage was Dr. Sarno's story about Helen in the Mind Body Prescription.
You may have noticed, however, that Helen's case was an extremely rare exception, so I don't know if we want to use such a case as an example. |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2013 : 05:38:29
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quote:
Originally posted by alix
Balto, My lower back has never hurt in my life and while I do the TMS work, I get a giant jolt in the lower back! Do you really believe that is all conscious?
Why would I get that jolt if it is just a conscious thought? It never happened before in my life and I had plenty of time to think about mortality without consequences.
I don't know Alix, I don't know what exactly is in your mind at the time. I don't know what negative emotion you're having at the time. I just thought that you probably just live through some traumatic events. Or you went through a depressing or stressful period... something recently happened that made you tense, that filled your mind with negative thoughts, negative emotions... and at some breaking point, the symptoms appear.
I just have a different belief than you had about what caused the symptoms. Discussing mindbody illnesses is like discussing about religions. No one is going to win, each of us just have to pick our own belief I guess.
the thing I thought is silly about repressed rage theory is when I asked myself: I suffered for 20 years of continuous pain, that should be long enough to drain empty thousand of my "reservoirs of rage", why the pain last so long? Why my subconscious mind don't come running to help me supress this pain? Why it didn't turn off the distraction mechanism and save me, after 20 years?...
Let just agree to disagree. We don't really need to know the cause of our symptoms to heal anyway.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2013 : 07:20:40
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| Ok I'd like to explain Helen's story from a different perpective and tell me if this makes sense. Helen was supposedliy cured 1 year before going to the group meetings were she relived her child abuse in her mind. Please refer back to #7 on my key to healing which states "It is also important to note that situations that you have not deconditioned yourself to will produce symptoms in you that make you feel that you have made no progress even if you’re close to being cured. Don't let this disway you as you only need to decondition yourself to these situations as well." It was as if the reliving of the traumatic event brought back that conditioned reaction which led to worsening and worsening pain. This then shifted to psychosis (an equivalent). She was probably thinking a lot of negative thoughts like - how could I have let that happen?, how could he do that to me? As she was supported by her husband and possibly described to him what had happened, she may have had a release in the tension of holding secrets back by letting it all out. After that episode we are told she is now "cured", but in reality, she went back to the state she was in prior to attending those meetings. If this was really a problem in her unconscious that needed expulsion, then she would NOT have been cured for a whole year before this event. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2013 : 08:41:50
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quote:
Originally posted by jegol71
...What about the ignored mind? That's what we do. Don't even have to say repressed. The rub lies therein: an ignored cut knits at the finger; yet an ignored emotion, or perhaps an ignored reaction, is not a strictly-speaking organic and resolvable.
If you put the present moment in the numerator, and all we've been through in the denominator including now, you arrive at a ratio of what it means to be human: coping with what have now - moving ahead- while adding it to the whole of what we've been.
We are more complex everyday, adding circuits in series day by day. We can't change that. In that sense, we are inevitably drifting towards an entropy that the mindbody cannot console, and we attempt to balance it with meaning at every hard interval.
That is the strain of what we have, and why thinking even about the abstract assumption that we must be strained is doing the right work towards healing. We have burdens, allostatic loads and narratives (etc.) that are only as reliable as they need to be to keep us moving. By being present, mindful, decompressing, one can stop all narratives in their tracks, and elicit the sensation of what it means to have lived, without reacting to how that was. Ergo, choice and peace are almost the same thing.
The above bears repeating, so I will. I would read it until fully understood; look up the hard words if needed. J7, pretty well sums up TMS and it's relationship to the meaning of life. GOOD JOB! |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2013 : 13:48:14
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Balto, I don't think we are very far apart. We are the product of our experiences.
I don't see the subconscious as a highly intelligent entity. I see it as a decision making machine (some sort of binary decision tree) that went haywire at some point. I also do not agree with the "protection" the pain gives us against repressed emotions. My view is that the binary decision tree malfunctions based on a stress overload that did not get registered correctly. But just that fact does not negate the unconscious mind for me. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2013 : 22:51:40
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What Is a Defense Mechanism?
By Kendra Cherry, About.com Guide
Definition:
Most notably used by Sigmund Freud in his psychoanalytic theory, a defense mechanism is a tactic developed by the ego to protect against anxiety. Defense mechanisms are thought to safeguard the mind against feelings and thoughts that are too difficult for the conscious mind to cope with. In some instances, defense mechanisms are thought to keep inappropriate or unwanted thoughts and impulses from entering the conscious mind.
For example, if you are faced with a particularly unpleasant task, your mind may choose to forget your responsibility in order to avoid the dreaded assignment. In addition to forgetting, other defense mechanisms include rationalization, denial, repression, projection, rejection and reaction formation.
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forestfortrees
393 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2013 : 21:52:04
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Hey folks, for anyone interested in the reading group, we we will have another one this Saturday (February 16th), at 2:00pm. We will start discussing the first portion of Pathways to Pain Relief, including the foreword by Dr. Sarno and the first four sections by Dr. Anderson. It’s only about 20 or so pages, so it shouldn’t take more than about an hour to catch up. As I mentioned before, the book can be downloaded instantly for only $12. For connection details, I have created a Wiki page: Saturday TMS Book Discussion Group.
An audio recording of the last reading group is now available as a YouTube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1sdkavt5nM
I talked perhaps for a bit too long, giving people background on the authors, but, later on the discussion heats up and things get a bit more interesting. Eventually, the recording will be available as a downloadable MP3 to put on your phone (one piece of the required software is still being shipped). When it is, I’ll update this thread.
Speaking of this thread, it has been a fascinating one, and I have to admit, I have had some difficulty keeping up with it. This is a great forum, and I wish I had more time to post on it. There is only so much time during the day, and I try to focus on the areas where I can have the largest contribution and where I can help the most amount of people. For me, this involves volunteering at the two nonprofits, which takes up more time than I would like to tell my girlfriend.
Shawn, I totally get your point that it is hard to accept something that you can’t sense directly, and I don’t blame you for applying Occam’s razor. I believe in Sarno’s theory just because it has worked for so many people, and while I definitely do believe that the unconscious is trying to protect us, I actually think the bio-medical approach Ace is describing works well with Dr. Sarno’s theories. I actually brought up a related idea with Alan Gordon a while back, and he thought the idea made sense.
In general though, I always think the most important thing we all need to know is what Dr. Sarno wrote in the foreword: the origin of the symptoms is entirely psychosomatic. Of course we want to have a clear understanding of the mechanism and biology behind TMS, but in terms of our recovery the most important thing is knowing that the origin of the symptoms is entirely psychosomatic, figuring out how to apply this knowledge to our lives, and developing ways to soothe our minds.
Speaking of ways to de-rev our minds, I am in the process of reading Ace’s keys to healing and think they are great. I am a deep fan of Sarno, but feel like Ace’s ideas are very helpful in applying Sarno’s teachings. Thanks a lot for writing those.
Likewise I loved your post clarifying the unconscious, Ace. I thought it showed your training as a physician in terms of its very modern understanding of the unconscious. There are some significant movements among psychoanalysts, particularly in regards to neuroscience that your post reminded me of. For anyone who's interested, Wikipedia refers to this as neuro-psychoanalysis:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-psychoanalysis
Personally, I am really excited about neuro-psychoanalysis and the potential it has to help us understand TMS and the unconscious. I sent an email to SteveO telling him how excited I am about this area, and saying that I hoped he would write about it. Of course Steve is so brilliant I am sure he has his own ideas on what he wants to cover next.
In the meantime, a couple really good books about the subject are Richard Davidson’s “The Emotional Life of Your Brain,” Joseph Ledoux’s classic text, “The Emotional Brain,” and a new book entitled “The Archaeology of Mind,” by Jaak Panksepp. Davidson’s book is a nice easy read and tells a story the same way that Candace Pert’s Molecules of Emotion does. Davidson’s book is slightly more up-to-date being published in 2012 instead of 1999, and it focuses on brain regions and emotional style. I know that MatthewNJ is huge fan of Davidson's book (his success story is great, too).
Dr. Fran Anderson, one of the coauthors of Pathways, is interested in this as well. In the introduction of Pathways to Pain Relief she says: "My treatment approach is also influenced by 1) Allan Schore’s integration of data from the psychoanalytic theory of development, neurobiology of attachment [and SteveO is all about attachment/tracordification-F], and the neuroscience of emotional regulation [which reminds me of Ace -F]; 2) Daniel Siegel’s “interpersonal neurobiology” which captures the complexity of the interpenetration of the psychological and the neurobiological realms of theorizing; and 3) Wilma Bucci’s research on the bodily basis of emotional and cognitive processing." It seems like psychoanalysis has changed a lot in the last few years, and Dr. Anderson, with her amazing CV, is at the forefront of the field. ... yet another reason why I am so excited about this book.
My Video Success Story
www.thankyoudrsarno.org
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bjackson034
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2013 : 12:38:57
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| This book looks interesting, do you know if it's coming out in actual book form? |
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forestfortrees
393 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2013 : 17:07:57
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Hi bjackson,
I don't think that there are any plans for this. On the email mailing list used by TMS Therapists, someone asked that question. Dr. Anderson responded by saying that "If and when we get it into paper, we'll let you know!" However, if I hear anything else, I'll be sure to let the TMSHelp community know.
If you're considering getting the book but aren't sure, I encourage you to call in tomorrow. I'd be happy to answer any questions you have. It's also not too late to join the group, for anyone who is interested. We'll only be about 20 pages in and we plan to keep going slowly so that the most people can participate.
We're also discussing SteveO's The Great Pain Deception and another great book by Gabor Mate entitled When the Body Says No. We're going super slow on those books as well. It's really just about having a good discussion.
Hope this helps!
F
My Video Success Story
www.thankyoudrsarno.org
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Edited by - forestfortrees on 02/15/2013 20:11:31 |
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New book by two of Dr. Sarno's psychologists
