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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
 Posted - 02/11/2013 : 09:49:13
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quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
... I cannot suspend belief and embrace something that is not believable. I simply cannot do it.
...I do not have any repressed emotions, they are all out in the open.
What are your memories of being in the womb room? What was your favorite meal? |
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eric watson
USA
601 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 09:56:45
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quote:
Originally posted by shawnsmith
So what am I supposed to do? I cannot suspend belief and embrace something that is not believable. I simply cannot do it. I do not have any repressed emotions, they are all out in the open.
I am filled with much despair these days and fear for my life which I no longer value that much to begin with.
shawn its the despair ,its the dread of the pain,its not seeing hope in the future-
your thoughts are hurting you
sure your past was fine but the thoughts your having now
are trying to hurt you further-
in time soon enough you will find the answer shawn
i know youve heard that before
but im a friend and if you let me -im not giving up on ya
and i know ace is here for ya-
you have so many that love you brother-your about to get to the top of the mountain. just never never give in or give up |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 10:20:37
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sorry but I had to believe in the unconscious mind to heal. NET proved to me that it exists and also that we repress painful memories very efficiently.
There is no book that will make me change my mind. Dr.Schubiner's videos make a very compelling case also. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 10:29:19
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quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
What are your memories of being in the womb room? What was your favorite meal?
Is that a serious question? Are you suggesting that I was somehow traumatized in my mother's womb and, as a result, I secretly hate women? This is exactly the kind of logic these so called psycho-therapists resort to and which is total nonsense.
My contention is that we spend way too much time seeking to excavate repressed emotions when there are enough emotions that we are well aware off to keep us in a state of stress and anxiety. It is well documented that the many stressors of daily life and the accompanying anxiety have an adverse impact on human health. This point is not even a matter of debate these days. For God's sake, some of these psycho- therapists (many whose actions are border-line criminal) have us believing things about ourselves and our past which are not even true or distorted beyond all recognition to who we are or what actually took place. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 10:33:37
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quote:
Originally posted by alix
There is no book that will make me change my mind.
Of course there is no book which can make you change your mind because you are like a person with religious faith. No objective or scientific proof could convince you of anything which goes against your faith. You believe because you choose to believe, but that is not a proof. Even your getting well, which I am glad to hear, is still not proof of the existence of something called an unconscious mind. People get well as a result of resorting to all kinds of treatment modalities. If you believe, fine, but don't tell me your belief is the proof because that is simply not logical at all. |
Edited by - shawnsmith on 02/11/2013 10:34:46 |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 10:44:11
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Shawn, NET was able to find that somebody broke in our house when I was 2 & 1/2 years old. A terrifying incident apparently. I have no recollection of the incident.
I was able to confirm the incident by finally reading my late mother's diary that I never had the courage to look at.
Okay it can all be a coincidence but that is good enough for me. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 11:22:28
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As I said Alix, I am very happy when someone reports that they are feeling better, regardless of what method they resorted to. So my sincere congratulations.
I remember when I was around 13 or 14, an intoxicated person came racing up the street in his car at a very high speed. He swerved right into our yard and hit our home. It was indeed quite a shock. Yes, there are indeed frightening things which have happened in the past to many of us. |
Edited by - shawnsmith on 02/11/2013 11:22:57 |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 11:33:14
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Shawn, It is not really the frightening incident but the unconscious maladaptation to the incident that drives us.
Some parts of Sarno, I just take that metaphorically. I am sure that it is more complex but the explanation is good enough for me.
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 11:44:35
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| Dear Eric, I want to clarify what I meant by I do not believe in an unconscious. I think there is a part of our mind we are not aware of and it controls our breathing, certain memories etc. I think it is like there is a person inside our minds that is monitoring and listening to everything one is saying. I think when the overall theme of what the person is doing is negative, it revvs the mind up. This along with condiitoning and fear leads to bodily dysfunction/symptoms. If you want to call these parts of your mind unconscious, Then I believe in that. On the other hand, I do not believe in a reservior of rage (unless your trying to say the mind is revved up in overdrive). I do not believe the mind is trying to help you by causing you pain. I think the area used the most at the time of tension is the most prone to being effected, bc your using it the most when the autonomic nervous system is dysfucntional so it cannot give the adequate amount of blood to that organ at that period of time.(ie your about to have a running competition and your hyped up, and now you start to run, your ANS, does not give the o2 required for running bc it is dysfunctional, which is why this is effected) I think Balto, said it so elequently, if the mind was so smart, why wouldnt it reverse the problem on its own later when the tension is gone. So shawn, I dont know if you can believe in what I just said. I hope so, bc for even my theroies to work you have to at least accept what I just said. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 11:55:05
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| Oh one more thing, I think you can see if you look and practice, the hidden emotions of anger and feelings of strain with practice. I know the word unconscious is given to these feeling of which you were unaware before. I think it makes people think sometimes that they will never be able to see or feel these things bc they are off in some hidden realm. In reality, you just have to learn to see them again. I dont know if unconscious is the best term (i.e you werent aware of some ants in your closet even though you use it all the time, but when you started looking for them, you found them, where they unconscious?) |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 12:09:30
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ACE1,
I think what you said is reasonable and I can embrace that much more easily. I especially like where you said, "I think when the overall theme of what the person is doing is negative, it revvs the mind up." I can relate to that as it fits into what was taking place in my life when my TMS began.
You see ACE1, and anyone else who is reading this, I worked on the premise of the existence of repressed unconscious emotions for a long time but it simply did not work for me personally. In fact, I feel it has made me feel worse and that is why I am taking a different position, but I don't have it all worked out in my mind yet.
I feel that I know what my problem is, which includes having too much free time on my hands to think, an almost non-existent circle of friends as I have moved around a lot, and a whole lot of fear of physical movement. I also feel really guilty over what I have put my wife through as a result of my health issues, and this guilt has left me feeling really depressed. There is a hump I keep coming to and then I seem to draw back which leaves me frustrated. |
Edited by - shawnsmith on 02/11/2013 12:11:36 |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 12:40:52
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I think what Ace said is exactly right. We get way too hung up on words and concepts. You do not need to believe in the "unconscious" as an "entity" to heal. Something else to remember when looking for models to help you is that we are all different in what works for us. That is why so many different approaches have been developed to try to solve the same problem. Usually this is a trial and error process. It can be very tedious and I have often been very discouraged.
Have you tried Ace's keys seriously? These will expand your awareness in a very refreshing way. |
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jegol71
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 13:18:58
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We all agree and could hug were it not for the language.
What about the ignored mind? That's what we do. Don't even have to say repressed. The rub lies therein: an ignored cut knits at the finger; yet an ignored emotion, or perhaps an ignored reaction, is not a strictly-speaking organic and resolvable.
If you put the present moment in the numerator, and all we've been through in the denominator including now, you arrive at a ratio of what it means to be human: coping with what have now - moving ahead- while adding it to the whole of what we've been.
We are more complex everyday, adding circuits in series day by day. We can't change that. In that sense, we are inevitably drifting towards an entropy that the mindbody cannot console, and we attempt to balance it with meaning at every hard interval.
That is the strain of what we have, and why thinking even about the abstract assumption that we must be strained is doing the right work towards healing. We have burdens, allostatic loads and narratives (etc.) that are only as reliable as they need to be to keep us moving. By being present, mindful, decompressing, one can stop all narratives in their tracks, and elicit the sensation of what it means to have lived, without reacting to how that was. Ergo, choice and peace are almost the same thing.
I hope this helps and doesn't sound like the ramblings of the syphilitic kangaroo I saw at the discount zoo.
Really, Shawn (et al)- we care. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 14:08:59
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| That was well stated jegol71. |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 16:30:45
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Shawn, have you experienced the pain moving around when you explore painful emotions?
It has for me when I was thinking about simple things like aging or mortality. An unbelievably sharp jolt in the back or the knee. Not random at all (I have no back or knee pain). Where is that coming from? |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 18:02:23
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quote:
Originally posted by alix
Shawn, have you experienced the pain moving around when you explore painful emotions?
It has for me when I was thinking about simple things like aging or mortality. An unbelievably sharp jolt in the back or the knee. Not random at all (I have no back or knee pain). Where is that coming from?
From you Alix. If you don't think about it, it wouldn't hurt you. You brought the thought into your mind. It didn't come from your "subconscious mind".
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
Edited by - balto on 02/11/2013 18:34:25 |
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jegol71
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 18:13:20
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| Is fearing mortality a form of suicide? |
Edited by - jegol71 on 02/11/2013 18:15:17 |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 18:18:24
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quote:
Originally posted by jegol71
Is fearing mortality a form of suicide?
No, it is being human. Let's face it, as much as it sucks to even think about it, we are all going to eventually die. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 18:20:22
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quote:
Originally posted by alix
Shawn, have you experienced the pain moving around.....
Take a look at my profile to see where in my body the pain has manifested. Yes, one of the hallmarks of TMS is that the pain moves around. |
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EileenTM
92 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2013 : 20:26:41
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What convinced me there was a reservoir of rage was Dr. Sarno's story about Helen in the Mind Body Prescription. At middle age she had memories of childhood sexual abuse. She got bad back pain, and then repression broke down and her repressed feelings came pouring out. If you haven't read that account, it is quite convincing. Anyway Dr. Sarno says it rarely happens. And we don't need that to happen to heal.
I also have had times where an event happened and I knew I should feel something like anger or fear and I felt nothing. It was always puzzling to me. Now I know. Repression at work.
Also I am one of the ones for whom complicated healing does not work very well.
Journalling has not done much.
When I get symptoms I do 2 things that mostly seem to work.
I just run thru in my head what could be causing it and rattle off a litany of stressors.
And I yell at it. The firmer the better. That actually works quite well.
Also, Dr. Sarno emphasizes that denial of the syndrome is part of the syndrome.
In my case, I accept the concept, but my trigger was always looking for something more.
The next book, etc. That was my distraction and it worked well. Now I just try to keep it simple. Steve O's book was a big help because i have very strange symptoms and he talks about more than just back pain.
I laugh sometimes because they are so unusual.
Good luck, you can do this! There are lots of success stories. |
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Topic |
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New book by two of Dr. Sarno's psychologists
