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alix
USA
434 Posts |
 Posted - 02/07/2013 : 18:19:35
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| chickenbone, you are right. Sometimes people react very angrily at the the mention of Sarno and TMS on medical forums. It is sometimes akin to telling them that they are lying and are making up their pain. |
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Sylvia
199 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 05:53:20
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Dr. Schubiner wrote me back.
Is there a lawyer in the house? Can I paste much of his email here?
And Dr. Schubiner if you are reading this, please don't fault me for doing this, I think the information is so important for future FM CFS folks that happen onto this forum. Or cut and pasted into another support forum. I always use CFS FM or Chronic Fatigue Syndrome by name so that future searches will come up with these sorts of posts. I feel so much I want to be a cured beacon of light for them, all of them.
Here is Dr. Schubiner...
One more thing you need to realize about my study is that we accepted
all women with FM/CFS. These were not women who were predisposed to
accept TMS or mind body concepts. In fact, they were generally of the
belief that they had a chronic incurable disease. Therefore, our
results should be interpreted in light of that. Among people with
FM/CFS who do understand and believe in TMS, the results are much
better.
One of the comments that stated that no one was "cured". However,
about 25% had dramatic responses, as I mentioned. Of course, those
were the ones who were able to accept that their symptoms were due to
TMS and were able to do the emotional and behavioral work to heal.
The people on the forum who commented that their is no magic bullet
out there for healing are correct. You have to do the work; you have
to accept and believe in this concept; you have to take control and
stop the symptoms; you have to deal with the emotional issues in your
life. The books and therapy can help you, of course. Whatever book
or therapy you choose will help you if you believe in that. Your
doubts about the process will hamper or delay your recovery. It
doesn't matter if my study shows that some people dont' get better, it
matters if you get better. And you can, following whatever model fits
you best from the world of TMS, whether that is Ace's keys, or Dr.
Sarno's books, or Steve's book, or some combination of it all.
I think that the second edition of my book is significantly better in
that it includes the powerful emotional work known as ISTDP. I had
found that has made a huge difference in the results of people who
have used it. Many people need help in doing this work however, so it
is not surprising that many people don't get "cured" by simply reading
one book or another. There are some therapists who do ISTDP and TMS
work via Skype, so that can be another great resource.
Believe in yourself. I have faith in you!
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Edited by - Sylvia on 02/08/2013 05:54:43 |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 06:15:33
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| Dr. Schubiner is really a lovely man, you can just feel that from his email to you Sylvia. |
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Sylvia
199 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 06:28:40
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I agree. I feel the Love and Compassion. And I am very lucky.
Seek and Ye Shall Find
Ace it is not like I'm dumping your Strain/Ease paradigm. Those were the two most important words I heard and hold onto and use, without reading the keys. Even without tms, who the heck needs strain? Nobody. Good ole Claire Weekes says Utta Utta Acceptance.
Here are some Dr. Schubiner videos
http://www.youtube.com/user/yourpainisreal
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Edited by - Sylvia on 02/08/2013 07:04:10 |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 07:19:44
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| No Sylvia, I want you to get better, thats it. You have already read the keys and therefore they are in the back of your mind and may help you anyway. Like I said, just read Dr. S's book and possibly do his program and if you find it more helpful than what is listed on the keys/this forum or in Dr. Sarno's books, please come back and tell us what about it helped you. Also tell us what may have been not so accurate from what you learned before. Maybe you can review the book as you reviewed Nichole's. This way we can learn on how to help more people too. I wish you the best of luck! |
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plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 07:29:07
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Sylvia,
As we've mentioned on a different thread, true peer support is a balm in itself. I also believe that the direct love, encouragement and support of a man like Schubiner is a mainline to faith. I've noticed that a lot of success stories involve such direct contact. Maybe I should have taken the online option myself but as a 24/7 carer it's a luxury beyond my means.
God bless and good luck. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 08:17:11
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| Dont worry plum, we'll be your support and you will get better, just keep working at it |
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jegol71
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 09:04:20
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I believe that the takeaway from Howard's book that isn't found elsewhere is:
1. His neuroscience is indisputable compared to much of the other mindbody theories, and that reduces strain in people who need to "see it to believe it."
2. This contrasts with his gentle nature, which matches the tone of his writing.
3. The journaling isn't for everybody (it wasn't for me), but it is proven to help some, taking me to-
4. Howard's book is much like SteveO's, in that it is heavily researched, with links to the research in the back. He wants people to trust his efforts, and is assiduous in showing us just what that effort was.
So in closing, I think Howard does the best job of reassuring people of their symptoms: he comes the closest to PROVING that what you have is a preeminent mindbody process, to borrow a juvenile meme: "Because Science."
Is the personal growth work he offers much different from what others like Ace and Steve and Balto and Hillbilly and Dr. Sarno offer? No, but that's an issue of finding the right language. Although I will vouch for ISTDP, which Howard introduced me to (I read about it in The Divided Mind, but it came off to me then as being about as contemporary as an orthopedic iron maiden or electrification). Turns out ISTDP was right for me, because it took my infinite language of confusion, brought me into feeling feelings and defenses I didn't know were there, then reintroduced language to me to make the connection. For instance, I never knew that the word "anger" had so many sensations. But it was proved through some simple mindbody algebra in session, and this was after seeing over a dozen therapists.
Howard entails you in a community of one with his writing, and goes to great length in both titular and extra-titular capacities (through his message board and personal reaching out) to be that dream doctor many here have never had, the Goldilocks zone of reassurance:
Enough credibility to be believed, enough effort and attention to make believing enjoyable.
Is that his book or is that his person? Any good person who writes a book lives by it, inhabits it, so yes.
I hope this was helpful, and I'm sorry if anything I mentioned before created static on your healing journeys. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 09:24:25
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| WOW J7, great review, well written! Makes me want to take a look at it. |
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jegol71
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 09:30:28
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And on top of it, TT:
I just reread my journaling, to see if I was accurate about it not helping. I compared what I wrote 2.5 years ago to who I am today, and I can no longer say that it didn't help.
To clarify: Howard uses the most research-backed journaling tools. It's guided work, with prompts and associative clusters.
It's not "How's it going today, Lester?"
So I must retract what I said about the writing exercises . It foretold who I have become today in some respects, so that makes it valuable to me.
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Edited by - jegol71 on 02/08/2013 09:32:10 |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 09:31:06
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| Thanks jegol for your nice review of his book that is very helpful. I guess maybe thats why the book wasnt that much help to me, bc I already knew without a doubt I had TMS and needed no more proof. I just needed to know how to overcome the disease. Jegol, I think the neuroscience stated in the book are just theories, but not proven science. I have to admit though, I haven't read his book in a while so I dont remember the details very well. I might have to go back and read that part again. Thanks again! I really do wish you the best and continued good health! |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 09:34:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Sylvia
Dr. Schubiner wrote me back.
Whatever book or therapy you choose will help you if you believe in that. Your doubts about the process will hamper or delay your recovery. It doesn't matter if my study shows that some people dont' get better, it matters if you get better. And you can, following whatever model fits you best from the world of TMS, whether that is Ace's keys, or Dr. Sarno's books, or Steve's book, or some combination of it all.
I very agreed with what Dr. S wrote about doubt. That is one of the biggest hurdle one have to overcome to heal. Whatever model you choose to use is not important, they all will heal, they all complement each other, and they all have no side effect.
In the end, if you can truly achieve the belief that there is nothing wrong with you and your body and you are a great, wonderful machine, and you are as healthy as anyone, you will heal.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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jegol71
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 09:56:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
Thanks jegol for your nice review of his book that is very helpful. I guess maybe thats why the book wasnt that much help to me, bc I already knew without a doubt I had TMS and needed no more proof. I just needed to know how to overcome the disease. Jegol, I think the neuroscience stated in the book are just theories, but not proven science. I have to admit though, I haven't read his book in a while so I dont remember the details very well. I might have to go back and read that part again. Thanks again! I really do wish you the best and continued good health!
You're welcome, Ace. You might be right about Howard's work being based in theory, but I guarantee you it's the most living, breathing, contemporaneous science available on the subject, for however concrete the human experience can become for textbooks.
I again say, with greater gentleness this time I hope, that it would be absolutely wonderful if your intelligence could meet his and others, such as Drs. Alexander, Zafrides, Stracks, Schechter and Clarke (etc), to take this subject into the stars, so to speak. Whenever you feel comfortable doing it on the terms that fit you, of course.
I think future medicine is not complete without this paradigm, but then again I've been saying that for 75 years.
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 09:58:37
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| Yes I do think it all compliments each other, just like Balto said. Just DONT GIVE UP. Once Dr. Sarno said to me that everyone who sticks with this over time will continue to get better based on his experience. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 10:05:13
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| I appreiciate your kind words Jegol, I will one day, just not ready yet. (remember, I had TMS, I'm a perfectionist) :) |
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Sylvia
199 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 10:11:31
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One hundred shmundred dollars. So what? What does it matter if I can at last earn income?
I am joining Dr. Schubiners online program. I believe it is my best bet, and I am very lucky. I am all in and I will win.
jegol71, if you are still on his forum I'd love to talk with you there. Look for me when I join tonight or tomorrow.
I have joined up and I am sylvia-1, (Sylvia won, get it?) at first look it appears MASSIVE, the information...I won't be commenting on it until I am through with it (around a month, but I don't think I could be as thorough as jego171) and as for the book and cd, I won't comment on that until afterward. I eat books for breakfast, done with SteveO's less than a week, Nicole's in one day.
But this online program forces bite sized progress, little by little. Which for me seems ideal. I may just keep his book and cd in the Amazon box it comes in, and open it as a little graduation present.
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Edited by - Sylvia on 02/08/2013 11:25:09 |
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jegol71
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 11:41:36
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Sylvia1-
I don't frequent that board much, because I get everything emailed to me, and see everything. People are very supportive there, and Howard is himself a peer with authority on there, learning like we all are. It's an anti-cult.
I know this because when I was in endless widespread pain and stiffness, I ate my sense of reason and joined one that focused on bodywork and removing trapped memories from fascia. I had no choice. I swing a big bat when pain science turns cultish.
If you have any questions to me personally, since I don't create much of a dialog on there, feel free to email me at ----.
I wrote a blog post for Howard on narrative medicine, which goes to show that it's not just a one-way stream.
Best of luck, and congratulations on doing something that feels right.
To many more.
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Edited by - jegol71 on 02/08/2013 11:49:26 |
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plum
United Kingdom
641 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 15:02:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
Dont worry plum, we'll be your support and you will get better, just keep working at it
Thank you Ace1.
Jared nailed something when he said:
"Howard entails you in a community of one with his writing, and goes to great length in both titular and extra-titular capacities (through his message board and personal reaching out) to be that dream doctor many here have never had, the Goldilocks zone of reassurance."
Doubt is a profoundly harmful crucible.
And to this, add the following poison.
For years my husband visited all manner of doctors and specialists before his diagnosis. Years of watching him slip away with no help and no answers. By the time we knew what was wrong the specialist thought my boy would be dead within 5 to 10 years.
They didn't bargain on my wild soul or my love or my absolute belief that he would heal. It's a curious agony to live with Death's promise everyday.
So you see, I have this fearful thing in my mind. To have an *authority* on tms look my way and say 'you are freer even than the angels' may extinguish this.
I do not lack resolve.
Everyday I witness the power of faith.
I think now I must conquer the fear that constellates in my flesh and you are helping me do so.
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jegol71
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 18:51:03
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Plum,
You are the uncorked laureate that screams our cause's poetry at itself. Beautiful words. Soon enough, they will be beautiful lenses, showing you how far you've come.
You will find Howard to be an infinite ally if you choose to work with him again.
Sylvia,
I emailed you about the program. I hope it has caught you softly. |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2013 : 19:12:13
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Can someone please help tell me what ISTDP stand for and what is it about? Never see the term before. thanks in advance.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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Dr. Schubiner did a Fibro study N.I.H.
