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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
 Posted - 02/06/2013 : 17:31:57
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Dear jegol,
We never said he wasn't a great man, on the contrary I can clearly see that he is a man of great character. All we were commenting on was his book, which for myself, plum, and Shawn did not help us one iota. In addition, if he feels that the problem is really a mental strain, it is not explicitly stated in his book. I'm really glad he is doing research and helping people, and maybe this help is better seen when you see him in person. I have never seen him in person, so I cannot comment on that. My only comment is on his book, which I have to still stand by my original review |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2013 : 17:37:30
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| Jegol, I forgot to ask, we're you cured by his book? |
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jegol71
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2013 : 17:45:54
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| Yes! |
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jegol71
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2013 : 17:52:04
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Hey Ace,
Since we know where all the other TMS doctors practice, what their credentials and licensures are, I think that since you've gained a lot of traction on here with your writing, that it would help a lot of people to know:
1. Your name, medical license number and state, and if it's still valid.
2. Where you went to school, what degree you were awarded, and where you did your residencies or fellowships.
3. What and where you currently practice (private practice, which hospitals, etc.)
Thank you. |
Edited by - jegol71 on 02/06/2013 17:52:47 |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2013 : 17:52:46
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| I remember that you had mentioned you did istdp work. Can clearly say it was Howard's book that led you to cure? If so, more power to you and congratulations to your recovery. Maybe you can point out to some of the people struggling on here how you used the book to cure yourself. I also always want to learn if I am missing something so I can help more people. Thank you in advance. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2013 : 18:06:41
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| I don't practice as a TMS practitioner, I am a cancer doctor an MD. I have a valid license, I went to duke for my med school, and Hopkins for my residency. Actually when I first came on this board, I never said I was a doctor, but it came out because someone wanted to know how I knew something that I stated. I prefer to remain anonymous at least as of right now for the following reasons: I don't want any recognition for what I am doing here, secondly I am in a strictly allopathic medicine practice which is not owned by myself, so I really don't want people making appointments for TMS treatment when I cannot treat them for that, I am trying to get better at what I am teaching and getting more and more feedback from people on this board and the people around me that i am helping cure. I have met with dr Sarno and he knows me. You might say I could be making all this up, for what reason? Whom ever puts my keys to the test and give it the time, will see that they are correct. My criticism of dr schubiners book is not only my opinion and I got no better with it. Why does my saying that make you want to check my credentials? If you don't like what I have to say don't listen to it or at least give a good argument on why you think what I am saying is wrong. For example tell us why dr schubiners book is good, don't just say he is a great practitioner. There is no substance to your rebuttal. |
Edited by - Ace1 on 02/06/2013 18:22:08 |
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Sylvia
199 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2013 : 18:24:38
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I got an e-mail back from Dr. Schubiner.
He wrote that he's not sure he wants to come on and answer all the queries.
But he obviously read my thread because he answered my concern. He said
25% were dramatically better, having pain scores of 0-2
25% were significantly better
the other half had smaller or no benefits.
If this were a cancer treatment I'd take it!
Hey jegol71 thanks for coming in like a breath of fresh air, I let this thread curb my enthusiasm.
PS, the study he did was based on the first book, and he thinks the second book is even more powerful with the addition of ISTDP.
Ace I'm confident that your approach could work.
But Dr. Schubiners is proven to work, so I can get on board doing that for several months to see if I'm one of the lucky ones.
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2013 : 18:37:54
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| Good luck to you Sylvia, just if it does work for you(which I hope it does) come back on here and tell us how you used it. |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2013 : 18:49:34
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Sylvia, I am worried your quest for the perfect "TMS method" is simply a source of distraction feeding your TMS strategy. I am with Ace here. You have everything needed already.
That was my exact problem the first time around. I just got more and more frustrated and went nowhere. |
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jegol71
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2013 : 18:53:11
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I ask about your credentials independent of Howard's book, it has nothing to do with Howard or this conversation. It's just that being anonymous lends itself certain privileges, such as being able to say anything you want. Except you aren't completely anonymous. To wit: you mention being a doctor at all. Why? Why not just post your keys? This remodels you from anonymous helper, such as Hillbilly, into someone claiming clout. It's not that you're not to be believed, but how do you know your principles aren't holding true to people because of your proclamation of being a doctor? And if you claim something relatively new to people, such as all things except infections and traumas being related to strain, what ownership do you have of that statement if you're not identifying yourself thoroughly? By merely mentioning that you're a doctor, you create strain in people who may disagree with you. Then they are forced to reckon with your whisper of "trust me I'm a doctor."
That's not very nice to do to people. If you were like Dr. Ziggles, and just providing clinical experiences in his free time to help with questions, then this obviously wouldn't apply.
Rebuttal? Syllogism, Ace1:
1. TMS healing is found in the right words. People have found the right words in Dr. Schubiner's book. Therefore, TMS healing is found in Dr. Schubiner's book.
2. Inner strain causes TMS. Learned neural pathways cause inner strain. Therefore, learned neural pathways cause TMS.
So I am saying that what Howard writes is the same as what you write. The more you write, the more you add to your keys, the more what you say will resemble what has been unconsciously interpreted by everyone who has recovered, because of language.
Who knows? Maybe the words you've been using are just new to people who haven't been previously exposed to the right words, and you provided the tipping point. So did SteveO to some. So did Abraham Low and Claire Weekes.
You cannot clinicalize the life experience, which is why saying one is cured of TMS doesn't sit well with me.
Howard is able to reassure people of what is structural and what isn't, and what you minimized as his contribution of the physiology of TMS gives people a homunculus to visualize, which helps some. So between this reassurance, which is found very well in his book, and the ISTDP work, which does so by having a vigilant therapist help you become aware of defenses that avoid anger, I was "cured."
I hope that helps you. I hope you don't remain anonymous for the sake of people who may have a problem with what you say, and the degree to which you say it. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2013 : 19:22:21
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| Jegol you said you were cured bc of dr s's book, but later I called you out on the fact that you were in psychotherapy. I think you should have said this instead of just saying yes to being cured by the book you should have mentioned this important fact. What you are doing is making people think the book was all you needed to get better which was clearly not the case. Like I said I was anonymous until I mentioned what I thought about a subject, one asked how do I know, we'll then I had to say I was a doctor to explain that I noticed this with my own eyes. Yes I was trying to come across as balto or hillbilly, but I that's the way it worked out. Like I said no one here has to believe what I said they can just put it to the test t see if it is correct. I also never claimed other books and authors are not good. I have recommend a few. I have never written a book so, I have no agenda per se to get across my info except to help people. I still for the reasons cited will remain anonymous, you are not an important one because you are already cured. My revealing my identity will no more make you believe what I say than just remaining anonymous. Good luck to you |
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jegol71
USA
78 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2013 : 19:36:21
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You called me out? I'm sorry I didn't take it as ad hominem.
What if Howard's book mentioned the therapy that helped me, causing me to start the therapy? Is it then no longer his book? Why does this sound like it's becoming a game of "My Healing Can Beat Up Your Healing?" This thread wasn't initiated about his book, speaking of tangents.
Your agenda is to improve upon whatever has been written about TMS. I think that's a noble agenda. Why not join up with the PPD Association and help other doctors help everyone? Your knowledge with theirs will surely be to the dialectical benefit of everyone. I encourage you to keep helping, but like all of us you must at least consider how things can hurt too.
Good luck to you as well, however that is. |
Edited by - jegol71 on 02/06/2013 19:42:08 |
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All1Spirit
USA
149 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2013 : 19:50:52
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| I have spoken to him and found him to be a very kind concerned man with a great gasp on the mind body conditions |
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MainEventMike
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2013 : 11:21:17
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I'm not on this forum much anymore because the majority of my symptoms are gone. I still read some of the posts every once in a while. I had some major back and neck pain issues that are basically gone now. There are several things I have done to get to the point I am today. I give most of the credit to myself because I have done a lot of work. But, I was given the right direction from Dr. Sarno and his books and Dr. Schubiner and his book. Also, I have talked to Dr. Schubiner in person. He's a wonderful person and genuinely cares about people getting better. I read Dr. Sarno's books and I thought they were awesome but, I needed more to get better. Dr. Schubiner guided me the rest of the way. I guess some people don't like his book but, I think it was essential to my healing process and I still use his book and cd. Am I 100% better? No. Who is? We're human and we deal with repressed emotions every day. If you've read Dr. Sarno and you're looking for something else, give Dr. Schubiner's book a read. Just because the book doesn't work for one person doesn't mean it won't work for someone else. It worked for me and I highly recommend it.
http://tensionmyositissyndrome.blogspot.com/ |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2013 : 12:32:30
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Hi Main Event Mike,
I remember you. Your humorous link actually made me cry with laughter when I first read it. I am glad to see your health is much improved.
Dr Schubiner’s book and videos helped me also when I first started. His book was the first to suggest the concept of forgiveness to me, as well as improving my understanding of how the brain works. I also brought the second edition that came out last year.
I’m not posting much these days. I like to see people discuss how they improved and made changes within themselves personally. Unfortunately there has been very little of these recently and the posts seem to be defensive, protracted discussions or arguments that are not helpful to me.
Please come back and bring some of that humor with you.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Stopped Wiki Edu Program in lieu of own journalling
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2013 : 14:05:46
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quote:
Originally posted by andy64tms
I’m not posting much these days. I like to see people discuss how they improved and made changes within themselves personally. Unfortunately there has been very little of these recently and the posts seem to be defensive, protracted discussions or arguments that are not helpful to me.
That's pretty much the nature of internet message boards, it's like TV mostly for information and entertainment. Anything anyone really needs to know to get "cured" of TMS is in Dr. Sarno's books with occasional "boosters" available from others who have written of their personal TMS journeys.
Message boards are good for getting the latest breaking and like other news outlets, first reports are often unreliable--buy on the rumor, sell on the news--or is it the other way around.
Dr. Sarno's TMS theory is beautifully simple--the pain is real but benign, carry on, just do it--applying it to the complexities of one's personal life, may be not so simple. Like I said, all the info is in any one of the books, including his first and shortest, "MIND OVER BACK PAIN".
The forum might be helpful to explain some point that someone doesn't understand, but a lot of it is just psycho-babble, procrastinating getting off one's butt and getting on with leading what SteveO so aptly termed a "dynamic life". If you're too busy and happy with what you're busy with, you'd be too distracted with happy-busyness to need the distraction of TMS/pain distraction. With that thought in mind, I'm off to the hot tub to soothe my sore butt.
Cheers,
tt/lsmft |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2013 : 15:26:52
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Hi Tom,
Other forums I’ve been on have had an ignore user button. This one doesn’t. There are many good informative posts here, and I agree in free speech and the right to an opinion, but you have to read a thread to find out annoyingly that it doesn’t apply to you. I often get side tracked very much and drawn into extraneous discussions about banking, vaccinations, religion and even porn.
To be honest Tom, I don’t want to be offensive, but your long winded argument with Bryan that went on for days and days had the effect of turning me off the forum. It degraded and devalued all that I have previously read here, thinking “who are these children”? Both of you had “right and might” on your side both with compelling logic. One of Aces affirmations “Forgive and let go easy”, certainly did not apply.
My reasons for feeling this way is that I too have been involved in distasteful arguments for over 65 years with my twin brother, no one ever wins, it’s an eternal fight fraught with jealousies, mistrust and hatred, continuing for decades. Your arguing reminded me of the pettiness that I was part of, adding to my regret of wasted hours and unhappiness.
I’ve forgotten him as best I can, sad isn’t it? His email and phone number have been blocked and I have no contact, the same with the rest of my family in England. The forgetting was easy, but forgiveness is hard to come by.
Now that’s the sort of topic I need to read here, a story of how someone dealt with forgiveness, I’ll do a search.
Regards
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Stopped Wiki Edu Program in lieu of own journalling
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2013 : 16:49:21
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quote:
Originally posted by andy64tms
To be honest Tom, I don’t want to be offensive, but your long winded argument with Bryan that went on for days and days had the effect of turning me off the forum. It degraded and devalued all that I have previously read here, thinking “who are these children”?
...Your arguing reminded me of the pettiness that I was part of, adding to my regret of wasted hours and unhappiness.
...I’ve forgotten him as best I can, sad isn’t it? His email and phone number have been blocked and I have no contact, the same with the rest of my family in England.
No offense taken Andy, I entered into the fray not for any personal reasons, it was to allow genuine TMS authors to have the right to speak and help others here--mission accomplished. It became personal and I defended my integrity. I won't go into the details since Bryan and I agreed to end it.
Were you offended by my words only or also Bryan's?
I'm sorry about your alienation from your family. My brother and I often argue vehemently, get all the **** out in one fell swoop and it's over like a catharsis. We're fortunate to live in a world of such abundance that we do not have to rely on our blood relations for subsistance and survival. That has not been the norm for the history of the planet and probably isn't the norm for most who inhabit it today. We're lucky to live in a country where we can survive as individuals and make a good living.
I don't regret anything I said and am proud that I was able bring two TMS authors back to the board so they could be heard and help others. They were both hurt by the negative reception, they are human too. Sometimes you have to stand up for what's right even if it offends some, sorry about that.
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2013 : 17:50:17
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Hi Tom,
I also welcomed both authors to this forum, my welcome to Nicole got lost in the thread so I emailed it to her. I think my post to her is available with an explanation of my acceptance and welcome to her, by welcoming her I got involved in a heavy discussion - not what I am here for, so I backed out.
What I was looking for as I made daily visits to the forum was for one of you to concede, for days, it was a stale mate. As I mentioned “Both of you had “right and might” on your side both with compelling logic”, so I was not offended. I was coming back to the forum after being disenfranchised with threads in November and taking a break.
Rightly or wrongly the thread brought up some of my hidden feelings of my upsetting past family. At this time I became very negative with my wife and had more arguments than I can count on two hands, it was upsetting for both of us as we have a good marriage and rarely argue. In my rush to dispense with my past issues I became a Jeckle and Hyde, (her words).
I pride myself in becoming as unlike my past dysfunctional family as possible in order to survive the shame and regret, so I was shocked when she told me I was like them by raising my voice, shouting in a rage. To hear I am like them horrifies me to the core. I must change!
This month I celebrate one year on the forum, I have made many gains and have revised the way I approach my TMS issues of which I have many. I don’t have much pain like many others here, I’m here primarily to improve my happiness and in turn the happiness of those dear to me.
Thank you for prompting me to write this, I will show it to Sheila as my commitment to her.
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Stopped Wiki Edu Program in lieu of own journalling
Charlie Horse on neck for 20 years, is almost gone.
Books:
Healing Back Pain
Unlearn your Pain
The Great Pain Deception |
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chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2013 : 18:06:24
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Hey, Sylvia. Thanks a million for posting that study. I couldn't resist posting the link to it on the Fibromylgia forums. It will be interesting to see what responses I get, if any.
There are so many people on these forums that are suffering terribly, running to all sorts of doctors, on all types of medications, getting exactly nowhere because they are told they can never be cured. And none of them have ever considered TMS. |
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Dr. Schubiner did a Fibro study N.I.H.
