| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Dr James Alexander
Australia
127 Posts |
 Posted - 01/22/2013 : 17:17:21
|
There has been some discussion lately about sleep problems as an issue for people suffering from chronic pain. I have recently added to my webpage some of the information from my book ('The Hidden Psychology of Pain') regarding sleep issues. If you are wanting to read about it, go to www.drjamesalexander-psychologist.com and look under 'Addendums to the book' which is under the 'About the Book' page (available on the left hand side of the home page).
James |
|
|
tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2013 : 17:55:21
|
Hi Doctor Alexander, I can't help to wonder how you think and feel about how your TMS practitioner colleague Nicole Sacks has been treated here, any thoughts?
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
"...the human emotional system was not designed to endure the mental rigors of a tennis match." Dr. Allen Fox
======================================================
"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod =================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
 |
|
|
pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2013 : 18:02:52
|
| Keeping to the topic at hand, James, do you have any concerns about the use of melatonin either intermittently or on a regular basis? |
|
|
|
Dr James Alexander
Australia
127 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2013 : 18:12:01
|
I havent read anything about the use of melatonin that would suggest a concern- other than perhaps the normal advice with any substance of start low and go slow. But, obviously it is a naturally occurring chemical within the body. Others may have researched it a bit more?
Tennis tom- i havent been reading the posts that you refer to so really cant comment.
James |
|
|
|
tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2013 : 18:13:19
|
Keeping to the topic, melatonin doesn't work except as a placebo--but if placebos work for you, then by all means take it, pleasant dreams and don't let the bed-bugs bite.
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
"...the human emotional system was not designed to endure the mental rigors of a tennis match." Dr. Allen Fox
======================================================
"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod =================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
|
|
|
pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2013 : 18:16:01
|
| James, thanks. I'm not a drug person (any more) but I do find melatonin in low dose pretty helpful from time to time and it hasn't seemed to have had any ill effects. I use a much lower dose (.5 to 1 mg) than one typically sees in the drug store/health food store pills, and I have actually read that low dose is better than high dose because it more naturally simulates the level from natural production. |
|
|
|
pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2013 : 18:17:18
|
| TT why do think it's a placebo effect? |
|
|
|
bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2013 : 18:19:57
|
Thanks for the post, Doctor...
I've had success with melatonin in limited doses as well. (Higher gave me weird dreams.) Only used it at specific times.
The best advice I ever got about sleep was when I was having problems, to absolutely not worry about it. Oddly, I'm able to do this much more effectively than with panic attacks, etc. But, most sleep sufferers suffer because they worry about not sleeping. It's a delicate state and of course, the mind can latch onto "uh oh, what i I don't sleep......"
It's so simple, but when I just said #### it, I managed to sleep better. I became okay with going a night or so without sleep, and the sleep returned.
Seems to be the elixir for so much of what bothers us... acceptance and losing fear of the symptoms.
Now, if I could only finish up applying that to my other symptoms sets.
|
|
|
|
pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2013 : 18:25:47
|
From University of Maryland Medical Center website which is generally pretty good, here's what they say about melatonin for insomnia. Sort of a mixed bag.
Insomnia
Studies suggest that melatonin supplements may help people with disrupted circadian rhythms (such as people with jet lag or those who work the night shift) and those with low melatonin levels (such as some seniors and people with schizophrenia) to sleep better. A review of clinical studies suggests that melatonin supplements may help prevent jet lag, particularly in people who cross five or more time zones.
A few clinical studies suggest that when taken for short periods of time (days to weeks) melatonin is more effective than a placebo in reducing the time it takes to fall asleep, increasing the number of sleeping hours, and boosting daytime alertness. It' s not clear how well melatonin works, however -- some studies suggest that it only reduces the amount of time to fall asleep by a few minutes.
Several human studies have measured the effects of melatonin supplements on sleep in healthy people. A wide range of doses has been used, often taken by mouth 30 - 60 minutes prior to sleep time. Results have been mixed. Some evidence suggests that melatonin may work best for people over 55 who have insomnia. One study of 334 people aged 55 and older found that sustained-release melatonin seemed to help people fall asleep faster, sleep better, be more alert in the morning, and improve quality of life in people with primary insomnia.
Source: http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/melatonin-000315.htm#ixzz2Il2C69Ux
Follow us: @UMMC on Twitter | MedCenter on Facebook |
|
|
|
tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2013 : 20:04:34
|
quote:
Originally posted by pspa123
TT why do think it's a placebo effect?
Why do I or why do you? If you're asking me, it's because I tried it and it didn't do a thing for me, and research I've seen corroborated that. I haven't been able to find that research again. Not being a believer in conspiracy theories, I would hate to think the powerful herbal medicine/industrial complex which would serve to profit from it's sales would expunge such studies from googleland--but, one believes the lies they want to believe--or at least I do. I would be hard pressed to believe that a university study would not be 100% on the up and up about melatonin--especially a university so closely located to Washington, DC as Maryland is. But, publish or parish as they used to say, may have some impact on the equivocating clinical findings.
If the question is why would you believe it's placebo effect, it's because you want to believe so you can sleep. Nothing wrong with that, the placebo effect is one of the greatest--TMS is all about it.
|
Edited by - tennis tom on 01/22/2013 20:06:41 |
|
|
|
pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2013 : 20:25:01
|
| Oh sorry I meant to post why do YOU think it's placebo effect, oops. I tend to think I'm not real susceptible to it myself -- all the psych drugs I took never did a damn thing for me for example -- and the effect of the melatonin feels real enough -- but who knows. It wouldn't surprise me if there were studies going the other way, everything we read about meds and supplements and herbs is filtered through some lens. |
|
|
|
chickenbone
Panama
398 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2013 : 21:00:01
|
Hi Dr. Alexander,
Thank-you for bringing up this topic of sleep and the chronic pain connection. I just purchased and received your book along with Steve O's book and a book by Dr. David Hanscom titled "Back in Control". I just finished a book by a Neurologist about how the brain processes information and the concept of "neuroplasticity". Dr. Hanscom is a Orthopedic surgeon (back surgeon) who has completely embraces the theory of TMS that is now more commonly referred to MBS. I think I am really starting to understand just how my pain got created and reinforced in the first place. He states in his book that sleeping well is a prerequisite for ridding oneself of chronic pain. I do notice that my pain is worse the next day when I have not slept well the night before. Anyway, I will get to your book next because I thought it is logical to progress from the physical to the psychological. Thanks for the link to your website on sleep issues, I will get to it as soon as I can. I have made a lot of progress on my pain issues, but I can't seem to make progress on my sleep issues. Perversely, I have virtually no pain when I go to bed at night. I am the opposite of most people who cannot sleep because of pain. The worse my pain is, the better I sleep and the better my pain is, the worse I sleep. I really don't understand this, except that it seems that when I have pain at night or am sick, my mind leaves me alone and lets me sleep. The better I feel, the more manic my mind gets.
I guess I should mention that I had parathyroid surgery last September. My surgeon thought I could have had the tumor for as long as 10 or 12 years. Parathyroid problems tend to have bad effects on one's mind, but I think I may be starting to recover from that. Since then, everything is better except for sleep. This has been worse.
I often wonder if pain and sickness provide a distraction from my childhood trauma. |
|
|
|
Dr James Alexander
Australia
127 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2013 : 03:26:51
|
Chickenbone- you may find the section 'EFT for sleep' in Ch 13 of The Hidden Psychology of Pain helpful. I've seen it work wonders in regards to sleep (both for myself and for clients). Well worth giving it a go. But first, its best to address the other factors which i have detailed on my webpage (and elsewhere in Ch 13), and then try EFT as an adjunct. Good luck with it.
James |
|
|
|
shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2013 : 05:10:42
|
Years ago a read the book "Say Good Night to Insomnia" by Dr. Gregg D. Jacobs. He is an Insomnia Specialist at the Sleep Disorders Center at the University of Massachusetts Medical School and a leading authority on the treatment of insomnia. At Harvard Medical School, Dr. Jacobs developed the first drug-free insomnia program proven more effective than sleeping pills in research funded by the National Institutes of Health.
Visit his website and learn more about his CBT insomnia program at www.cbtforinsomnia.com
His is a mindbody approach to the problem. |
|
|
|
alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2013 : 18:29:11
|
Dr.Alexander, I completely agree with your assessment of Zolpidem.
I took it a few years ago to fight jet lag. Not only my wife caught me sleepwalking during the night a couple of times but I was in more pain the next day.
it suppresses dreams (disturbs REM sleep)so who knows what the psychoactive properties do to our TMS-prone unconscious minds.
If dreams are important to resolving conflicts in our unconscious minds, one can speculate that Zolpidem should be really avoided when doing the TMS work.
|
|
|
|
pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2013 : 19:36:56
|
I took ambien off and on a while back when I was having pretty bad insomnia, and it's really more like anesthesia than sleeping, at least it was for me. I can see taking it if one is really physically sick from sustained lack of sleep, but not otherwise.
Relatedly, with no basis for being this way other than my own general skepticism, I have often thought that sleep apnea is overdiagnosed, and that there is something wrong with the picture when doctors if they had their way would have such a high percentage of the population sleeping with devices. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
TMS & Sleep problems
