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alix
USA
434 Posts |
 Posted - 12/06/2012 : 23:26:26
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Hello everyone,
I have not posted for years but I would like to share my recovery from pelvic pain. I left this board very disappointed. I had indeed seen TMS doctor Schechter in Los Angeles and I had 24 phone sessions with Don Dubin.
I am sorry to say that it was a waste of time and money. Dr.Schechter seemed to assume in advance that it was TMS (he cut me before I finished my story) so I did not find him very convincing despite his authority and experience. In addition and I am not trying to sound arrogant but I had the feeling that I knew more about the pudendal nerve or prostatitis than Dr.Schechter. I am not criticizing his knowledge here but he cannot be a specialist in everything and
your brain is keenly aware and exploiting that fact.
Don Dubin was a wonderful person with whom I had a lot in common but again he completely missed the issues. Furthermore he told me that he himself was successfully beating his own headaches using Sarno's theories. He sadly passed away a few months later from cancer and obviously his headaches were from his un-diagnosed terminal illness. That very unfortunate incident convinced me that TMS was quackery.
I don't want to sound too controversial but reading all those TMS books, or listening to TMS tapes etc... did not help me either.
I just could not help but to concentrate on the small inconsistencies in those books or tapes.
So what worked?
In desperation and after a few years I looked for a hypnotherapist specialized in pain. It happens that that practitioner is also a believer in Sarno and uses a technique called Neuro Emotional technique or NET. You can check it (you tube has some demonstration) but basically, it is a way to ask yes or no questions to your subconscious. you can therefore quickly zero in on the repressed thoughts that may be the source of your rage. That technique is amazingly effective to get in a few hours to the source of painful repressed memories.
Secondly, I abandoned journaling and instead mentally concentrated on the absurdity of the variation in my pain.
For example I was walking on the sidewalk. A driver lost control of her car and almost hit me driving at high speed. The driver ended up crashing in a gas station. The police came etc... I was shaking but my pain vanished completely for 24 hours. Another time I froze some small warts on my knee and mysteriously the pelvic pain vanished for a little while too. Again it just did not make logical sense that pelvic pain would disappear like that if the problem was physical.
I discovered that by going over and over those 2 seemingly absurd incidents that did not make any sense in a traditional medical way, the pain slowly vanished. As a side note, I mostly did those mental exercises at bedtime as I am convinced the subconscious is very receptive and then processes
it during your sleep.
So I am not pretending that my experience is universal but hopefully it adds a little bit to our collective understanding. |
Edited by - alix on 12/07/2012 12:19:58 |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 05:31:57
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| Congratulation Alix on your recovery. |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 05:32:05
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I'm a little confuse. The first part of your post you dismissed mindbody as the cause of your symptoms. Then the second part of your post you described how you've used mindbody technique to cure your symptoms.
anyway, it is wonderful you are cured now.
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No, I don't know everything. I'm just here to share my experience. |
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mchan
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 07:36:39
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I am very happy for you! I had a question, you said,"it is a way to ask yes or no questions to your subconscious. you can therefore quickly zero in on the repressed thoughts that may be the source of your rage. That technique is amazingly effective to get in a few hours to the source of painful repressed memories."
I use muscle testing often, daily actually for supplements, foods, and questions. I was wondering what you did with these emotions once they were found through testing? What did you do with the repressed rage to heal it?
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Love Wins. |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 09:02:07
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Balto,
I reread myself and yes it is confusing. Apologies.
The bottomline is that Sarno is right but that for me reading books, seeing a TMS doctor, journaling just did not do it for me. It did not click. The fact is that after forgetting about Sarno, I rediscovered it by accident through that NET practitioner and it worked that time.
That slightly new angle was suddenly effective. I guess I needed to find those painful events.
mchan,
I went over those events mentally just like advised throughout this forum. Also I was able to go over them verbally with that practitioner.
But again, the conclusion is that Sarno is 100% right in mind. I hope it clarifies.
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Jilly
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 09:45:43
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| Hi Alix, What questions do you ask yourself in the NET program ? |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 10:00:04
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The practitioner says something like:
"was the painful event from conception to 2?" no
"2 to 4?" no
"4 to 6?" yes
"was the painful event related to family?" yes
"was the painful event related to parents?" no
"was the painful event related to siblings?" no
"was the painful event related to cousins?" yes
"was the painful event during a family function?" yes
"male?" yes
"give me the names of your cousins": John and Peter
"was it John?" no
etc... it takes only a few minutes. The binary "yes or no" is through muscle testing. Your subconscious reacts to false and correct statements.
For example if your name is Mary and the practitioner asks you to say "My name is Sarah" your arm muscle will be weak. but then if you say "My name is Mary" your arm will stay strong.
It is a way to communicate directly in a simple way with your subconscious.
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Edited by - alix on 12/07/2012 10:09:14 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 10:22:02
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Thanks for returning with your success story. I also saw Dr. Schechter and Donald Dubin and feel similarly. Accept in my case Dr. Schechter gave me the opposite DX from yours, if I understood you. He told me that I did NOT have TMS and should get a hip-replacement sooner then later. I drove 500 miles to see him and felt the meeting was perfunctory, the same as any other allopathic doctor would perform. But in his defense, his office is in Beverly Hills, the rents are high and the pace of life in la-la land is fast and go-go furious. I had the feeling I would have gotten more of his time and attention if I had been one of the celebrity athletes or movie stars on the wall of his office.
From your post, it does sound as though Dr. Schechter did give you the correct TMS dx, no? You as I, was not entirely pleased with the lack of TMS bedside manner, as it were. He did not cure you, but he did correctly DX you, no? Dr. Dubin did give me great hope that my hip WAS TMS when he said that he did NOT always agree with Dr. Schechter, so I continued to treat my hip pain as TMS.
You mentioned you came to the conclusion that you felt TMS was "quackery", but it seems you changed your mind that it was not, no?
I believe Dr. Sarno in one of his books does mention hypnotism as an effective treatment for TMS. I have been too chicken to try it fearing I would end up programmed to run around squawking like a chicken--which maybe I do anyway. I believe you said you were able to discover the repressed "source" of your TMS pain in your subconscious. If you care to share about that it may be helpful to the rest of us. Also if you would share the contact info for the NET hypnotist you used who you said was also a Sarno devotee. Thank you for your post it is certainly thought provoking and if I understand it complementary to Dr. Sarno's philosophy.
Cheers,
tt
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Edited by - tennis tom on 12/07/2012 11:06:13 |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 10:42:06
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Hi tennis tom:
Yes Dr.Schechter was right but he based it on a MRI I brought. I knew very well that a MRI is not sufficient to make a determination. I asked him questions about the pudendal nerve and I quickly realized that pelvic pain was not his forte. Again, I do not blame him but it was unfortunate.
TMS being quackery is too strong of a word. But it certainly crossed my mind when Dr.Dubin passed away. Dr.Dubin thought he was beating his headaches but he had terminal cancer. My immediate reaction was that it was a placebo. But yes you are correct, I have changed my mind.
I went to see a hypnotherapist in desperation but at the end the practitioner did not do any hypnosis on me. She must have realized that I would be helped more by NET.
The key memory was related to a terrifying burglary when I was a toddler. I was alone at home with a babysitter when someone broke in.
I was able to confirm separately that everything the NET practitioner discovered was absolutely true. |
Edited by - alix on 12/09/2012 12:33:36 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 11:27:00
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Thank you Alix for the prompt response and clafifications they are very helpful. Redwood City is not far from me and I will look into the NET approach, it appears complementary to TMS and maybe the practitioner should be added to the list here. I will give her a call, whatever works.
Taking a broader TMS view, I believe Dr. Sarno also mentions that TMS can have more serious health implications such as cancer. Dr. Bernie Siegel, an oncologist, has written many books about mindbody approaches to curing cancer. After having talked with dear Dr. Dubin, and learning of his cancer, I felt it could have been seen under the wider view of TMS. I don't know if he tried treating it through conventional allopathic methods as well as through TMS.
Thanks,
tt |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 11:46:57
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tennis tom,
Dr.Dubin's passing was very sad. From what I know, it had not been diagnosed and he thought the headaches were new manifestations of TMS.
He did tell me that he had cold sweats and especially terrible headaches. By the end, he was quite forgetful.
I had sessions from mid 2006 to mid 2007 and I believe that he passed away in 2008. Again a great guy that was so erudite about many subjects.
Now regarding the books, videos, tapes being not helpful. No disrespect to the authors. They are well intentioned but I am the type that goes through the footnotes and when I find something that is dubious, I tend to discard everything.
I remember one TMS book where the author (I think it was Scott Brady) felt obliged to rename TMS something else and had many references to Christianity. I spent the entire time reading the book trying to find out why he felt compelled to do those things.
In all fairness, I have not read any TMS related book since 2007.
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Edited by - alix on 12/07/2012 12:21:15 |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 12:24:19
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Alix,
Your experience is nearly exactly mine. I threw away the entire notion of TMS because there were far too many crimes against syllogistic reasoning in the books. Everything seemed to boil down to faith in the stories, a problem that persists here. I then began to research anxiety treatments more closely, and with newfound confidence that the problem was indeed benign and nervous in origin, given my history and personality, I was able to completely regain my health both physically and mentally. It is a shameful impediment to healing for people to force themselves to accept the rightness or wrongness of a singular diagnostician, especially given the fact that there are new books and videos out every day that could provide helpful treatment to those who understand their illness slightly beyond the bounds of four books. |
Edited by - Hillbilly on 12/07/2012 12:26:51 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 12:45:21
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Hillbilly, yours is a narrow minded approach, your problem was anxiety, others here have other TMS issues NOT do to anxiety. If you have a hammer you want to nail. Dr. Sarno certainly deals with anxiety--he calls it TENSION MYOSITIS SYNDROME--isn't tension synonymous with anxiety? Why do you keep coming back here undermining those who wish to believe and have benefited in healing many maladies through the Good Doctor's methods--don't you have anything better to do like save the us from the bankers? For a smart guy you have a woeful misunderstanding of the TMS fundamentals. I suggest you reread Dr. Sarno's books because you missed the point, which is ironic since that's what put you on the path to being cured--ANXIETY is a TMS equivalent!
Regards,
tt
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
"Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint." Mark Twain and Balto
"The hot-dog is the noblest of dogs; it feeds the hand that bites it." Dr. Laurence Johnston Peter
======================================================
"If it ends with "itis" or "algia" or "syndrome" and doctors can't figure out what causes it, then it might be TMS." Dave the Mod
=================================================
TMS PRACTITIONERS:
John Sarno, MD
400 E 34th St, New York, NY 10016
(212) 263-6035
Here's the TMS practitioners list from the TMS Help Forum:
http://www.tmshelp.com/links.htm
Here's a list of TMS practitioners from the TMS Wiki:
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Find_a_TMS_Doctor_or_Therapist
Here's a map of TMS practitioners from the old Tarpit Yoga site, (click on the map by state for listings).:
http://www.tarpityoga.com/2007_08_01_archive.html |
Edited by - tennis tom on 12/07/2012 12:49:40 |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 13:34:52
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| Hi allix, I was cured retraining my unconscious too, please read my post "repeating the keys to recovery". Tell me if what I have written down in someway parallels your recovery. I used mind power techniques to reprogram my mind for unconscious relaxation around sleep as you have said. And it seems that you kept repeating at night that the symptoms were not physical based on those two life events you encountered, which is of course a way of using mind power techniques. |
Edited by - Ace1 on 12/07/2012 13:47:26 |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 13:53:47
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Ace1,
Indeed. I like your list.
It was the NET practitioner that brought my attention to how sleep/dreams are key to resolving conflicts and how to take advantage of the period before falling asleep to get maximum benefit.
In fact I made my own audio describing the events of me walking on the side of the road etc... It seems... I don't know maybe naive but it works. I played that in a loop for weeks every night.
My improvement never came the same day after a NET session but always a day later. |
Edited by - alix on 12/07/2012 14:28:21 |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 14:25:20
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Here is my take on all of this. There is nothing wrong with trying other methods as a compliment to Dr Sarno's with a view to reducing stress and anxiety in your life. I found great help with the work of Dr. Arbraham Low, especially his book "Mental Health Through Will Training." It's all good folks, because it helps us reduce stress and anxiety which puts us on the road to recovery. And yes, sometimes that road is long and hard, but worth the effort.
To our newbie brothers and sisters on this board, don't be disheartened when disagreements arise in our discussions. This is just our TMS type personalities shining through.
PS: I spoke with Don Dubin twice (he is not Dr) and he was not much help to me, but he helped many other people. May he rest in peace. |
Edited by - shawnsmith on 12/07/2012 14:30:29 |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 14:41:09
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shawnsmith,
I do not see any contradiction between the works of a Sarno, Berceli, levine etc... You need to keep going at it until you find something that clicks. But boy, it is not easy...
Yes, you are right, Don Dubin was not a doctor and never misrepresented his education. |
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shawnsmith
Czech Republic
2048 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 15:20:27
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I think one thing that impedes my progress quite a bit is that I spend a lot of time alone. People tend to annoy me if I spend too much time with them, yet if I spend extended times alone I tend to think too much inwardly, which is not always a good thing and can lead to some inner tension.
Frankly, I am not orginally from where I currently live and don't know a lot of people, other than on a very supeficial basis, and I am more of an intellectual type which is no always easy to find. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 16:04:21
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Alix,
None of it sounds naive, thanks for your input, it is very helpful. |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 18:31:48
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Gentlemen,
Relax your epithets, please. No one here wants to see people get better than me. I commented on this fellow's experience because it mirrors mine and he is now better. Only a fool would think anything negative when reading someone's story of recovery. The point is that for people (and there are legions of them here who have been trying this treatment for years without improvement) who are struggling, there are other treatments out there that could be beneficial. I and the OP are living proof.
And, Tom, I only visit here after I've slain at least one banker with my lance. It's a rule I established as part of my business-before-pleasure turn I took in recovery. I joust windmills on the weekends to stay in shape. I also occasionally look at pictures in books and try to figure out what the words beside them mean. One day! One day! |
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alix
USA
434 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2012 : 18:58:14
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Eric,
I am not bashing Dr.Sarno's book. I read it, understood the concept, did the best I could with what I learned (read it over and over, went to see a TMS doctor) but the bottom line is that it was not enough for me and I did not improve. I then read several other books, did worksheets, listened to tapes, watched videos etc... Still no help.
That was then. NET allowed me to go to the next step. If reading Dr.Sarno's book is all that is required then more power to you. If you are stuck, you may want to consider NET as an extra tool. If you think it is cuckoo then skip it.
Hillbilly,
I agree with your post. I really have nothing to add to your observation.
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Edited by - alix on 12/07/2012 22:04:36 |
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Cured from pelvic pain
