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Colleen
USA
138 Posts |
 Posted - 03/04/2005 : 18:34:02
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Do you think that an anxiety disorder (anxiety/panic attacks) is a TMS symptom??
Colleen
Colleen H. Mazzola |
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moose1
162 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2005 : 18:36:06
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| Absolutely. |
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Colleen
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2005 : 18:39:39
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Moose1,
So does my Therapist. She is just studying TMS and she just posed the question to me after years and years of anxiety attacks. |
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JohnD
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2005 : 09:55:02
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in my experience it is tms, but it works a little different then other things like body pain.....TMS pain can result from an unreasonable expectation about our body "this structural abnormalty is causing my pain, and i won't heal", and then we switch it to "my body is strong, i may get pain sometimes but it will heal"
With anxiety we may have an unreasonable expectation about ourselves that can cause anxiety....so we actually have to figure out what our belief is that is causing the anxiety and try to come up with something more reasonable |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2005 : 11:27:34
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Anxiety attacks are equivalent to an acute attack of TMS,and are sometimes accompanied by physical symptoms.Ask any emergency room personnel and they get tons of people having "Heart attacks" who are merely having panic/anxiety attacks.
The event that sent me to the bookstore to buy HBP was a particularly bad one that was accompanied by numbness in all extremities,jaw (slurred speech) and chest pain.
I have found that as I have moved closer to the 'center' they have evaporated.I needed to use xanax for a period,and it was very effective at ending them HOWEVER I always used the process to evaluate what necessitated the attack afterward.
I haven't had one since fall of last year.Oddly enough,right around the time I started posting and reading/writing on this forum.Other symptoms that have gone away since being a member of this forum include: Chronic ear/gland infections,colds(haven't had one) flu,bronchitis and all respiraory ailments.Gone also are periodic Nausea(all those strings on "dizziness") and sinus infection.
Even after my pain evaporated,I was still buying into a lot of other mythology.
Anxiety attacks ARE TMS
peace
Baseball65 |
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moose1
162 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2005 : 16:28:41
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Colleen,
The most effective form of treatment for my panic/anxiety attacks was something called "paradoxical intention." Essentially, you tell yourself (or rather demand) that you want to purposely induce and experience the symptoms that you fear, and exaggerate the idea to the point of absurdity. I did something like, "I want to have a panic attack right now that will send me spiraling into an abyss of eternal insanity and horror. I want to end up in the ER and then have to be strapped down and sent to a padded room and experience wave after wave of soul killing fear for the rest of my life."
For some reason, whatever mechanism in the mind that triggers the panic responds to this demand like a disobedient child and does nothing. In fact, I've felt the horrible beginnings of a panic attack and completely extinquished it by using this method. It's really quite amazing. How amazing? For 15 years I treated my anxiety and panic with daily doses of Klonopin. Since using paradoxical intention, I haven't needed it at all.
Interestingly, this same approach did nothing for my low back TMS, which just goes to show that you need an array of techniques to deal with TMS equivalents.
I found a more detailed description of this at this site. It's the 2nd paragraph down.
http://www.miami-anxiety.com/treatment2.htm
Best,
Moose |
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menvert
Australia
133 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2005 : 19:44:49
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moose1,
thats is a very good fear disposing technique :)
yes i found that even in different body parts i hav to learn how to disarm each individual pain.... some techniques work & others dont, I liken it to a skill, & when i am skilled enough at one pain disarmament its no longer an issue, but other spots may need different approach. |
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moose1
162 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2005 : 20:21:10
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I should add that, at least for me, the paradoxical intention method has also been very long lasting, and it's not even something I had to use on a daily basis. I did it for a few nights when I was having really bad night-time panics a while back, which are especially horrifying. I think this is because as soon as I realized that I actually had *control* over my anxiety, it more or less disappeared. It was a perfect example of being able to expose the lie of a TMS symptom. As soon as it's exposed for what it is, it's high tails it to another place.
Moose |
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Colleen
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2005 : 20:29:40
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The paradoxal intention sounds very much like the well- known approach used at CARD (Center for Anxiety and Related Disorders)at Boston University. It was shown on 20/20 awhile ago. They do everything, including sending you out into the city alone with a map, so to induce a panic attack.
Colleen |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2005 : 20:42:38
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Moose.
That is fascinating....I almost wish I had a panic attack right now to try it out!
I bookmarked that page and am going to study it further...I still have mild OCD symptoms,and it says it works for those as well.
good source
Thanks
Baseball
peace
Baseball65 |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2005 : 07:18:47
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Anxiety disorder and panic attacks are TMS equivalents.
Moose's "paradoxical intention" technique is similar in some ways to fighting TMS. In effect you are telling your mind to "bring it on" -- you are not afraid. The fear of the attack can be considered worse than the attack itself. The fear takes up much more of your time and is an effective distraction. If you banish the fear, you can banish the symptoms as well. |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2005 : 09:02:03
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Anxiety attacks are TMS alright! I had my first full blown panic attack back in the 1980's (although I know I also suffered from them in middle school and high school when I was asked to either read out loud or give a speech). I moved to California from Michigan in 1984. I think the panic attack was in 1985 or 1986, coincidentally around the time I was getting married and converting to Judaism (leaving behind my devout Christian parents). Damn straight anxiety attacks are TMS!
When I suffered the "mother" of all attacks it was when I was consuming a lot of caffeine and was under tremendous stress; stress coming from my parents, stress living in a new state, stress in my job (working for my husband's aunt and uncle who were total a--holes!) I had bronchitis and was taking antibiotics, prescription decongestants, and potent cough medicine. I took all my meds, drank a huge cup of coffee, and got into my car to make my hour long commute. When the panic attack hit, I felt like things were not real (common symptom). My hands were tingling and I felt dizzy. I wound up in the E.R. thinking I was "dying" merely to be sent home from work. After that, I was fearful of getting in my car and driving to work because the feelings would come on all over again. It took awhile and a lot of work, but I eventually got through it. Then, we moved from an apartment and bought a house because we wanted to start a family. I was pregnant with our first daughter when the next series of panic attacks started. We were in Maui and I got some water in my ear and a resulting ear infection. I put some ear drops in, my ear plugged up and I couldn't hear and I "freaked" out completely. Pure panic. I think the feeling made me feel claustrophic (which I am big time!). To this day, I keep the water out of my ears when I shower or swim.
I grew up watching my mom suffer from panic attacks. It was horrible. My kids have never seen me have one. They seem to have dissipated and been replaced by other lovely TMS equivalents; dizziness, stomach problems, TMJ, etc. I think I can almost deal with those things better than the panic attacks.
I love reading Moose's description of what to do to stop them from coming on. Very interesting. I think I did something similar to that but not quite to that extreme. I feel for anyone suffering from them. Good luck, Colleen. With the knowledge you have, you'll surely be able to conquer them.
Laura
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JohnD
USA
371 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2005 : 16:42:19
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| Moose1's technique may very well be effective, but if we take the legs out from under the anxiety aka change the thinking pattern that is causing it and/or deal with the repressed emotion, then there is no need to use that technique.....although it does sound like a good technique that could be used in crunch time, and that can never hurt |
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Colleen
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2005 : 19:17:35
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Laura,
Something struck me as I read about your panic attacks happening when you were getting married and converting to Judiasm.....I had my first full blown attack when I was trying to plan my wedding (back in the 1980's also). I was about to graduate college and I was engaged to a Jewish guy and I come from a devout Catholic family....WOW....what a panic attack I had. The guy I was engaged to would not bend on anything and the stress just kept mounting and he was in the Service and we were going to be moving right away and I was graduating. Anyway, the whole thing feel apart and a few years later, I married my husband who I had known for 5 years, but mostly as a friend. But when the stress is high, my anxiety will find a way in. I can deal with it better than the nerve pain in my feet though! I just started thinking how it could be TMS.
THANKS Everyone!
Colleen |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2005 : 09:36:49
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Colleen,
There are a lot of coincidences with us. I remember going through so much stress trying to plan our wedding. My parents gave me a grand total of $1,000 for the entire wedding - their passive-aggressive way of controlling me. They were pissed off because I was converting, I had moved across the country, and they weren't going to be involved in any of the planning because of living so far away. I asked my sister to be the maid of honor and my mother interfered and said that she wouldn't help her buy the new bridesmaid dress (my sister was only 16, with no job) and that she would have to use one that I had used years prior for a wedding I was in. My mother-in-law told me that it wasn't fair I was having only my sister in the wedding (we were trying to keep it simple) and that I should ask my sister-in-law too. It then became my job to search the entire city of Los Angeles in an attempt to sort of match the dress my sister was wearing to one for my sister-in-law. Talk about stress!!!!! Add to this whole thing that my husband's bitchy aunt decided to start acting up and told us we couldn't have the garden wedding I had dreamed of that was supposed to be in her beautiful back yard. (she's a real piece of work!) Did your parents give you a hard time about marrying a Jewish man? Mine practically disowned me. What is ironic about this is that now, since we are very involved in our temple, my parents are totally into it and they even come to services with us when they come to visit.
The panic/anxiety attack that I had in Maui came right before I started having memories of being molested by a grandparent as a child. I guess it is not an unusual thing to have such memories surface at that time in a woman's life - the life altering time of pregnancy and childbirth can bring forth memories that have been buried for one's entire life. I actually saw a doctor who specialized in panic attacks and phobias. He told me to avoid six things: Caffeine, sugar, salt, fat, alcohol, and tobacco. This doctor (Donald Dossey - you can find him on-line) is some famous guy who has been on Oprah, Merv Griffin, Larry King etc. He really helped me get through it all. The method he uses is through Neurolinguistic Programming - very Sarnoesque. He talks about "Pavlov's Dogs" and how people learn a triggered response and his work is based on Bandler and Grinder (neurolinguistic programming).
It's funny - now I'm planning my youngest daughter's bat mitzvah and my husband is trying to control everything with that. He wants to do it as "cheaply" as possible. He could care less about the frills and fluff - in fact, if we were to get a cake and some cold cuts and spin some tunes on the stereo it would probably make him happy. I understand wanting to cut down on costs but I think you can do a beautiful party and still not spend a fortune. Talking about all this has me realizing that all these emotions are being stirred up all over again. No wonder I'm feeling stressed!
Laura
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Steve
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2005 : 09:54:04
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| Yes, I have had panic attacks as substitutes for other TMS symptoms. The last one I had was just after I started taking medication for mouth pain, which helped diminish the pain. Then I had a panic attack during a meeting at work, the first one I've had in many years. |
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Caroline
USA
55 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2005 : 15:32:57
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Hi,
I used to have panic attacks that almost turned me into an agoraphobe. I saw a psychologist for 18 months who diagnosed me as having anxiety disorder. She helped me learn to stop and prevent panic attacks but never uncovered the cause. After I got the attacks under control, I switched to dizziness and headaches and that went away too. I am now stuck with neck pain and anxiety. Arrgh! Is there an end to this? |
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Colleen
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2005 : 19:31:13
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Laura,
I was 21 when I got engaged to a Jewish man and (get this) I was graduating from an all women Catholic College in New England. I threw my family into a tail spin and had my first panic attack !! Between the anxiety, my family, his family and his controlling nature, the whole thing feel apart leaving me with memories and anxiety!! I know just what you mean about the stress !!
When I married my husband, we had a very small wedding in my college chapel and a small get together afterwards.....and that even stressed me !!
Colleen
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pault
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2005 : 04:59:39
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| Panic attacks show us how hard the brain works to keep feeling from becoming overt=tms.I used to get them and I would remind myself that nothing ever happens,as those feelings are just fear and are harmless. Paul. |
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ark
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2005 : 14:03:38
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Hi all,
I haven't been to this group in many months and just popped in to tell you about my progress. The short recap...I was in terrible back and foot pain for an entire year. Won't go into details but believe me --really crippling stuff. I read the books and went to see Sarno last Oct. The pain slowly disappeared by Jan. After feeeling good for a few weeks I had a sudden, acute attack one day in early Feb where I could hardly move (on the verge of complete spasm) and decided to go to a drawing class anyway the next day. I could barely get to class or even sit down but eventually got so wrapped up in what I was doing that I completely forgot about my back and walked out 3 hours later feeling fine. I really just laughed all the way home. That day seemed to cement the TMS theory for me and I've been virtually painfree ever since.
In the last month or so I have been feeling utterly fantastic, making huge strides in my life, my work and doing a lot of interesting reading about the mind-body connection. Things are really changing for the better (again, won't go into detail but it's pretty amazing). However, in the last day or so I've been noticing that my old anxiety attacks from long ago are trying to push up again (haven't had one in many many years). I'm sure that this new found "power" of knowing I am ultimately in charge and allowing myself to be truly happy is really rubbing "somebody in there" the wrong way. I will try to apply the paradoxical intention technique and see what happens.
...But hey, at least my back doesn't hurt anymore!
-Amanda |
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Anxiety Attacks and TMS
