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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
 Posted - 05/17/2013 : 08:02:05
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I wanted to add this explaination to this thread as if I want to refer back to it, i'll remember.
Hello All,
First I believe, as plum has already said, that the trauma sensitizes your nervous system and lead to habits that tend to continue to sensitize you and become the major problem. In the US, we look at ourselves like victims and we tend to dewell on our pain or what hapened to us in the past. In other instances, the repeated trauma, makes us react intensly to everything, its like we get in that mode from the trauma and then we start doing normal things and now our brains associate that intnesity with normal activity and then it becomes a normal part of our lives to be that way with everything. SInce the ANS results in fight or flight, the two are so intertwined that somehow annoyance, fear, anger somehow also stimulates feelings of escape (or flight). This is subtle, but try to see this in yourself and you will understand. THis then becomes carried over in normal activity automatically. The symptoms, if importance is given to them (which many in the 3rd world do not bc there is no health insurance and no health anxiety), contribute to this cycle. As you can see you have to unravel all of this, especially in most severe cases and therefore takes time and practice. Now one has to come to terms with their trauma as not to let it continue to sensitize one in the present. All of the problems from the trauma comes from how it affects you in the PRESENT. So you have to decondition yourself to this event, by reliving it in your mind, but making it that it is ok now because it is over and your a better person for it and that you forgive. The deconditioning process is listed in my keys. |
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RageSootheRatio
Canada
430 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2013 : 08:22:01
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quote:
its like we get in that mode from the trauma and then we start doing normal things and now our brains associate that intnesity with normal activity and then it becomes a normal part of our lives to be that way with everything. SInce the ANS results in fight or flight, the two are so intertwined that somehow annoyance, fear, anger somehow also stimulates feelings of escape (or flight). This is subtle, but try to see this in yourself and you will understand. THis then becomes carried over in normal activity automatically.
OH YES, Ace1 !
I find this very insightful and it articulates my own experience. Basically, *everything* is triggering of the "strain."
However, I WOULD like to put a caution around this part:
quote:
So you have to decondition yourself to this event, by reliving it in your mind, but making it that it is ok now because it is over and your a better person for it and that you forgive.
This may very well be true, however in practical terms, HOW to "decondition one's self" and get to a genuine place of "forgiveness" may be easier to say than do. For someone with severe trauma experiences, this could be much harder than it sounds, and could very well be retraumatizing if done in an unskilled way. Even when done with the help of a professional, it could be retraumatizing, if the professional is not skilled enough or inexperienced, even when that is obviously not the intent. (from the voice of experience, RSR. ) |
Edited by - RageSootheRatio on 05/17/2013 08:30:32 |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2013 : 08:41:59
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| Yes RSR your right. They kind of have to gradually do it. Again, they cannot make themselves to be the victim (which they may have actually been) or think they have such a big problem that they cannot do it by themselves - otherwise I just cant see them recovering. They have to slowly but surely know they will overcome the sesitization to this idea. Some could get professional help to help them, some will not need and some cannot have this. Just because I list something does not mean it is easy. Actually I find it to be difficult, why do you think most people with tension related illnesses never recover if they dont know or if they dont work on it. If it was easy, everyone would know about at and everyone would be perfectely healthy, which is clearly not the case. |
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RageSootheRatio
Canada
430 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2013 : 10:04:51
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hahaha, YES, you're right Ace! nobody said this was going to be easy.
Thanks for reminding me, which I find quite encouraging actually! 
I like what you say, about not "being a victim" even if one WAS a victim... There's a concept I've been hearing more about called Post Traumatic GROWTH ... and I think that fits, here.
BTW, if you ever have a chance to watch the Gabor Mate video (http://www.tmswiki.org/forum/media/dr-gabor-mat%C3%A9-how-stress-can-cause-disease.39/) that Plum first posted, (he wrote When the Body Says No and other books) I would be VERY interested in your take on it ... especially the part where he talks about, as a family doctor, he would see patients who start out healthy and then who get sick (unlike specialists, who generally see patients who are already well into an illness)... and then he says something like he could really see that generally the people who got sick demonstrated certain emotional patterns...
RSR |
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pspa123
672 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2013 : 12:18:20
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| Bumping up to front page. |
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icelikeaninja
USA
316 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2013 : 09:24:27
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| bump--I am getting relief from this now. |
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jennypeanut
103 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2013 : 23:18:17
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| Is there a way to make this a sticky so I don't have to keep searching for it?? Dave?? |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2013 : 08:57:53
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| Jenny I listed them on the recovery stories too if that helps |
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stocktrader
30 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2013 : 09:38:36
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Ace1,
Do you journal and meditate everyday now? Or during your recovery? |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2013 : 16:56:17
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| I never found journaling helpful. I never formally mediate. I just decondition myself with visualizations and affirmations as situations come up (and around sleep). I stop my strained habits and I sit in my discomfort and do not allow symptoms to sensitize me further. In other words I practice all day and just live my life in the new way. Healing is a spectrum and you can always reach a better state, so yes, I still practice. |
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Back2-It
USA
438 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2013 : 07:19:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Ace1
Yes RSR your right. They kind of have to gradually do it. Again, they cannot make themselves to be the victim (which they may have actually been) or think they have such a big problem that they cannot do it by themselves - otherwise I just cant see them recovering. They have to slowly but surely know they will overcome the sesitization to this idea. Some could get professional help to help them, some will not need and some cannot have this. Just because I list something does not mean it is easy. Actually I find it to be difficult, why do you think most people with tension related illnesses never recover if they dont know or if they dont work on it. If it was easy, everyone would know about at and everyone would be perfectely healthy, which is clearly not the case.
I think we have to recognize this for what it is: anxiety or "nervous" illness, to quote a retired description. Dr. Sarno greatly contributed to the understanding and relief of much back pain by essentially going back in time and accurately disassociating modern imaging --MRI, CAT scan-- as correctly diagnosing the cause of 98 percent of chronic back pain. He did this through observation and clinical practice.
Ace1's Keys incorporate and provide a great shorthand to overcoming anxiety problems, and, in my opinion, can serve as the "serenity prayer" of those who first come to these pages.
However, if your anxiety level is high, if you do not or cannot go through counseling, and, let's face it, good counseling is not readily available, because even the best counselors, if they have not experienced the kind of physical symptoms that a high level of anxiety contributes, cannot always identify or believe themselves that such a wide variety of problems can be psychogenic in nature.
Probably the best modern source for really gaining a deeper understanding of TMS/anxiety, and which does not allow its readers to be the victim, is "Mental Health Through Will Training," by Abraham Low MD. He was a psychiatrist, who, worked in the 1930's, 1940's and later, who started Recovery International, which was group support prior to there being such a thing. He does not allow for self-pity and, as the doctor of "nervously ill" patients, he does not allow them to self-diagnose or conjecture about their symptoms. He is tough, but that is what is needed is toughness, but though the book, shown by case examples, it is also explained why the daily aggravations and wrong temperament, which is learned behavior, can lead to a cascading of problems that eventually, for some, will result in physical symptoms or other phobias. There is no pop psychology, which he even talks about some sixty years ago; and no room for self-defeating behavior or "sabotage", but support from a mentor or from him was supplied, but not as it is now, where people could check forums hourly for reassurance. A mentor could be talked to for a short time -- five minutes or so-- when a person was in a panic or worried about symptoms, and then the rest of the work HAD to be done by the "nervously" ill person.
In this book you will find the same phrasing and ideas that most likely influenced Claire Weekes, Steven Hayes and others, perhaps even Dr. Sarno. Low does not mention back pain or shoulder pain or RSI per se or even many other physical symptoms, as he was dealing with the popular maladies of his day, such as headaches and "gastric troubles", so don't go there looking for your individual symptom. You wont' find it.
This is no beach read, and it is no guarantee that you will be able to "recover" once you read it, but I do guarantee you will have a better understanding of how strong the will can be. Just as Dr. Sarno told you a spine was not a hapless twig ready to be snapped by bending over, Dr. Low will tell you that no matter how troubled you are mentally, that you do have the will to overcome it.
That said, one of the main troubles, the weak leg on the entire stool of modern MindBody approach, is that most nervously ill people do not receive an authoritative dx of their problems, often because the doctor does not believe in a psychogenic cause, or, if they do, cannot accurately tell you why if you are having pain in your chest that it can very well be caused by extremely tight back muscles. They will just pronounce you "healthy". The "mind" part is addressed, but the "body" part, excuse the pun, is left hanging. This contributes to doubt and further anxiety.
And then you ask, "Well, why do I hurt here?" and the doctor --and a non-medical counselor surely cannot answer --cannot answer, unlike Dr. Sarno, who had years of clinical practice and could tell you; so this will remain a problem until there is a base of medical professionals who are skilled enough not to immediately send you off to imaging or to a specialist who will want to practice his/her speciality, be it surgery or rounds of pills or whatever.
Whew! This wore out my fingers for a month. 
"Bridges Freeze Before Roads" |
Edited by - Back2-It on 08/07/2013 07:30:27 |
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stocktrader
30 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2013 : 10:05:03
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Ace1,
1.Do you recommend reading your keys everyday? The one affirmation I am using the most is "I,m calm relaxed, patient, and confident."
2.I've been doing mindfulness meditation 2x a day, do you think this helps as an addition to your keys or I should stop doing them if they have no impact in my recovery?
3.Also, I read Healing Back Pain,do I need to read the other recommended books you listed or your keys itself will do it for my recovery.
Thanks. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2013 : 10:55:07
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yes a lot of people find it helpful to read my list everyday. A lot of what is written is condensed info that you may not fully understand at first but the more you read it and practice, the more you will understand.
I would hate to tell you to stop doing something that has helped other people. However in my case and in the people I have helped the mediatative state is best when applied in the situation that get you out of peace, you are acting the opposite of how ou have behaved before and trying to reach a deeper state of relaxtion.
The other Cds/reading are helpful, probably not necessary, but helpful and may contribute to your recovery. They are high yield reads in my opinion.
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dgreen97
122 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2013 : 20:08:36
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hey ace,
question about affirmations. im reading john kehoe's book and saw the affirmation "Every day in every way im getting better and better". I like this affirmation too as well as for my specific problem: My eyes are loose, comfortable and healthy or I am loose, comfortable and healthy. Im still using your affirmation of i am calm, relaxed, patient and confident. did you use multiple affirmations like this in your recovery? i noticed your affirmations didn't include anything about health but were more broad and focused on relaxation and forgiveness. im not sure but i think having a more direct affirmation to my specific problem as well as your affirmation would work well, any opinion?
the guy in his book who had the tumor used "every day in every way im getting better and better" and cured himself from the tumor, so that was a general affirmation and didn't focus specifically on his tumor. so far i haven't seen kehoe talk about if the affirmations have to be specific to your condition or not. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2013 : 08:08:13
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Hi DR,
You dont have to focus on your symtpoms at all with the affirmations because the only reason they are there is because a of a strained and conditioned mind. Therefore indirectly you take care of the problem by focusing on the root cause. It probably wont be harmful to direct your affirmations also to your symptoms, but I think the yield from this is low. |
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dgreen97
122 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2013 : 11:11:55
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Hey ace,
thanks for the response. im still using i am calm relaxed, patient and confident daily i like this one because its really easy to say and remember. so as you said its not all that important to use an affirmation that specifically relates to your symptoms. how do i know that my mental strain is the same as yours though because you said the calm relaxed, patient and confident affirmation is pretty universal. i guess im doing typical TMS behavior right now by overanalyzing "am i doing the right affirmations? what happens if Im doing the wrong one?" which is just worry in itself. im just curious as to how you came upon your affirmations and decided these are the ones im going to use for the coming months?
i share some common things with you that i have the feeling of being on edge every day, anxious, tense, have this feeling of wanting to do things quickly, so some of my behavior is similar to yours.
i liked your #8 key where you said the mental strain translates directly into a physical strain in one body part. so what you're saying is that my anxiety, being on edge, hyped up, the anticipatory feeling of a stressful event causing pain, is mental strain that is directly causing my eyes to hurt. this makes perfect sense because i saw this yesterday in a meeting i had to go to. my pain levels rose on the way to the meeting, went way up while in the meeting, and then pretty much stayed there for the rest of the day and continued into today. |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2013 : 11:01:35
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Dg,
Read key number 24. I think that this will really help you in your recovery. You have already touched on it in your message. I'm not going to directly answer your question so I can help you decondition the need to get such specific answers. |
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dgreen97
122 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2013 : 12:00:11
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| i see what you're saying ace, this is something im working on right now - not seeking reassurance every single day as much as possible, and after reading key 24 i need to stop thinking so much. im analyzing every little detail and i know the reason why, because im worrying if i dont follow everything to the T im not going to get better. from what you're saying its this intense grip of needing to know every little detail that is keeping me strained? |
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dgreen97
122 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2013 : 14:02:47
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| all i know ace is that i cutout reassurance seeking last saturday, so only like 4 days, and my pain levels are higher than i ever remember. something as simple as that causing this |
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Ace1
USA
1040 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2013 : 18:47:47
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| That's bc your not comfortable with not having reassurance. You have to not seek it and sit in your discomfort and act like its no big deal and recondition yourself to not getting the reassurance. Unfortunately, one has to suffer and accept the suffering for a period of time before one gets better. There is no way around this fact. I suggest you read my keys everyday and don't try so hard. All you need to know is written in there. The rest is just practice and trial and error with which only experience can bring. |
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Repeating the keys to healing
