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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
 Posted - 04/13/2012 : 19:25:47
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Hey all,
So, there was a very interesting thread recently where a nice poster named Cnotes posed some questions on this topic, and got some great answers. But, he seemed to feel like no matter what people said... that the examples weren't specific enough. Being a stubborn guy myself, I somewhat understand his frustration. I absolutely understand the concept that "if we lose the fear, the symptoms eventually have no purpose."
For the most part, my story involves working through a pretty high level of suffering. Not just from my organic anxiety/panic disorder... but the last year has been yet another trial due to an extended withdrawal from medications given to me to "help" my symptoms.
It's been officially one year since I've missed a day of work. I work through days that I'm sure my co-workers would be in the ER. I see people taking sick days for colds and flus, and think... "I should be so lucky."
I've exercised the best my tweaked body would let me. I walk almost nightly, and it's only at my most extreme that I don't get out to try to get fresh air and move. I used to be much more of an athlete, but I will say... this experience has taken some of that away. For me, the risk/reward of pushing my body physically during this withdrawal and anxiety experience has been iffy. I'm a sole provider for my family, and work quite a bit. It's a conundrum, indeed.
But, I've tried to stay active. I've tried to go right into the fear. I know Claire Weekes' books by heart. I haven't missed a single of my daughter's events in her life. (5) I plan for the future and I truly, truly believe I can and will be through this period of my life at some point.
But, here I am. I'm still here. I'm still suffering with god-awful anxiety. I still wake up in the morning with brutal physical symptoms and have to practice acceptance through the day until it fades at some point. I still have panic. I still have TMS. I still have moving symptoms. (But mostly rolling, physical anxiety/panic at a high level.)
This isn't a "poor me" story so much as it is a question to some of you out there.. HOW did you lose your fear? Specifically, what did you do? Examples would be great. I love reading these stories for inspiration, but also for details. I think our friend Cnotes was trying to see trees too hard and missing the forest in his thread, but I do understand the notion of being in a state where it's hard to understand what you're doing wrong.
What did you do? Even specifically on one day... or week? The devil (or angel) may be in the details, and I'd love to hear more from those who have had success overcoming anxiety/TMS, etc. Not just a general "I did it and I feel great now" success story... but even ONE detail of ONE day where you felt like you turned a corner, doing or thinking something?
Should be fun an interesting to hear. Thanks all. Be well.
B |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2012 : 20:16:50
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Hi Bryan, I'd like to hear some success stories on this subject too. My anxiety is probably much less than you describe yours, but still a daily grind. Sounds like we deal with it in a similar way too; I have always been one to forge ahead, do what I have to do. If I were to offer one additional tip, it would be this: Challenge your symptoms constantly! I'm a hypochondriac and challenging symptoms is the only thing that has really worked consistently for me. But don't over do it, eg, don't give yourself more than you know you can handle, otherwise you flare up your nervous system, lose your confidence, and have to start over.
As I've mentioned before, I am very physically active, run marathons etc, despite my fear of making worse, injuring, or reinjuring a body part. Despite my constant catastrophizing, I have never yet experienced the feared catastrophe. After the event, I invariably feel jubilant, empowered, confident, and a little foolish for putting myself throught the ringer for nothing. Of course, I say, I know better now; I won't make that mistake again. Unfortunately, the lesson doesn't seem to last long. I would like to get to the point where I lose my irrational fear because I have seen over and over that my body is strong, fit, and healthy. I shouldn't have to take this on faith, but know it is true deep inside. |
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2012 : 22:51:27
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Good response, Wrldtrv... and congrats to you for running marathons and things of that nature. I can't wait to have my ability to play sports back again. I've come close to being back in that kind of arena, but big setbacks have pushed me backwards... so I start again.
(The medication problems can be blamed for a lot of that stuff in the past year.)
But, I love hearing people's stories of how they overcame things... in a specific moment, etc.
Should be interesting once people chime in.
Hope you can keep beating your anxiety!
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jitterygal
18 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2012 : 08:47:55
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| All I can say is when I run I just have to do it and not think about my body. Just enjoy being outside and exercising. I am very competitive and I think it makes it harder to just relax and be in theent. I also have anxiety and I am still taking a small dose of medication. I was told by aTMS doc thaat sometimes your anxiety caincrease when you attempt to change your thinking. So temporarily being on meds imo is not abad thing but shoulnt' be a crutch. I am still an "infant" here, but I ran 6.6 miles.today pain free for the first time in 8 months. Best of luck and hang in there. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2012 : 10:37:32
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BRyan,
I've been where you are many times during my life. Maybe you'll be different and conquer your anxiety for good and all, but typically it's a lifelong proposition. The good news is I go for long periods in which the anxiety quiets down. You'll definitely get there. Much of what you're experiencing is probably still benzo withdrawal related.
Can you identify your core anxiety? It's probably existential as is mine, but I'm interested.
What works well for me? Not thinking while focusing on the breath. If you do this diligently...and promptly...I all but guarantee good results. You can't feel anxious without the physical concomitants, and nothing defuses those physical symptoms as effectively as deep breathing. The key again is diligence. Just keep doing it. Eventually you'll find yourself forgetting all about being anxious, often for very long periods (weeks and months) |
Edited by - art on 04/14/2012 10:38:12 |
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2012 : 11:07:41
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Very interesting Art and Jittery.
Oddly, I had almost no anxiety for 41 years. Then, a medication reaction... and it's been 2.5 years and still trying to turn it off. |
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shari
USA
85 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2012 : 12:13:54
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| There is a difference between TMS pain and the "normal" pain we all experience through the natural cycle of wear and repair our body goes through. "Normal" pain will occur when we push our body too hard. It's our body's way of telling us that we need to slow down so it can repair itself. If we ignore this signal and keep pushing, the pain will continue. This pain is not TMS. It's important to make the distinction. Many of us who have experienced the "miraculous" disappearance of chronic pain by just reading a book tend to develop this almost-religious fervor toward TMS. We tend to believe that every pain and symptom we now have is TMS. I think it's important to make this distinction between TMS pain and the "normal" pain our body goes through when repair or healing is needed. If we ignore our body's signal and the pain continues we can get confused and wonder what we're doing wrong. Our frustration eventually turns to anxiety. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2012 : 13:13:49
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quote:
Originally posted by bryan3000
Very interesting Art and Jittery.
Oddly, I had almost no anxiety for 41 years. Then, a medication reaction... and it's been 2.5 years and still trying to turn it off.
Panic is often self-pepetuating. It takes time to learn to break the cycle. One becomes afraid of fear, and a terrible vicious cycle can ensue. Again, you have the tools. You must interrupt the scary thoughts, and the physical response that follows. Once you learn to have confidence that you're in control of this, the panic and anxiety will go away.
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2012 : 21:04:03
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| Bryan, would you mind revealing the med that put you through such an ordeal over the past couple of years? |
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2012 : 23:50:03
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Wrldtrv,
I had some headaches and sinus pain start about 2.5 years ago. After months of docs not finding anything, one allergist decided to just throw the medicine cabinet at me to see what would happen. The combo that sent me to the ER in shambles was Veramyst (steroid nose spray) and Singulair. (cell mast inhibitor usually for asthma. )
She gave me the spray in the office and said take the pill when I got home. I did, and my life has been upside down ever since. Subsequent attempts by docs to fix the panic led to more problems, including 10 months of withdrawal. (Which I'm hoping is almost played out. )
Imagine if someone could have told me the headaches were probably tms and stres related before I visited the mad scientists. How different life might be.
In any case, I'm where I am... but I will get better. Just working out the "hows" still. |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2012 : 12:51:16
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| Thanks Bryan. I thought it was psychotropic meds you were on that caused the problem. Anyway, what a nasty reaction, though you are slowly on the mend. |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2012 : 20:35:21
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quote:
Originally posted by bryan3000
Wrldtrv,
I had some headaches and sinus pain start about 2.5 years ago. After months of docs not finding anything, one allergist decided to just throw the medicine cabinet at me to see what would happen. The combo that sent me to the ER in shambles was Veramyst (steroid nose spray) and Singulair. (cell mast inhibitor usually for asthma. )
She gave me the spray in the office and said take the pill when I got home. I did, and my life has been upside down ever since. Subsequent attempts by docs to fix the panic led to more problems, including 10 months of withdrawal. (Which I'm hoping is almost played out. )
Imagine if someone could have told me the headaches were probably tms and stres related before I visited the mad scientists. How different life might be.
In any case, I'm where I am... but I will get better. Just working out the "hows" still.
I used to have all kind of withdrawal symptoms every time I try to quit smoking. The last time I tried to quit I was prepare to treat my "withdrawal" symptoms as if they are tms/anxiety symptoms, I had none. And now I'm an ex smoker.
I think many people, when they expected to have these withdrawal symptoms, they will get them. When they didn't, they don't.
Just like with coffee. I would drank 2, 3 cups a day before I had panic/anxiety. I quit coffee when I was suffered from panic attack, When I was no longer panic, a little Coffee still would trigger a mild panic symptoms.
Our body acts out our expectation. We need to understand which of our body's symptoms are due to conditioning and expectation to completely defeat our tms/anxiety. They can sneak up on us and throw us into a "fear loop" and start the tms/anxiety producing machine all over again. |
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2012 : 23:34:15
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Balto.
I hear you. Problem is, I was absolutely convinced I'd have no withdrawal... or very little.
I was on a small dose over 11 months and tapered slowly. (I was doing better with anxiety and the meds were too low dose and too short acting to help.)
I had no concept of withdrawal, and certainly none lasting 10 months or more.
So, I quit... and the gates of hell opened. Massive, full body chaos, night sweats, gastritis (was literally eating baby food), dangerous weight loss, depression, massive anxiety and had to leave my job for 3 weeks short term disability. Could hardly walk at one point. I had upwards of 20 symptoms I had never had pre benzodiazepine. It made my regular anxiety look like a walk in the park.
I thought I had contracted some kind of deadly flu. I finally found a couple of doctors familiar with withdrawal who educated me to the reality of what had happened.
As the months went on, I slowly got better... which followed a typical pattern of post-acute extended withdrawal. I'm just now feeling like most of what is going on is "me" again, and not this process playing out.
I wish everything was TMS so we could just ignore it and go on with life. Unfortunately, withdrawal is a real, physical process of brain receptors healing from a dangerous, insideois medication. It was by far the hardest thing I have been through. Nothing is even close.
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 07:39:46
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I think something must be very stressful had happened to you at that time and it caused all those extreme tms/anxiety symptoms. Work, life, health... worries, plus conditioning and wrong thoughts probably threw you into an extreme "fear loop" which produced all those nasty symptoms.
I would doubt that the FDA would have approved those medicine you've took if they were that dangerous. Unless god made your body so different than he made others, I wouldn't think all those symptoms came from drug withdrawal. Also, it could be a mild withdrawal symptoms but it got worse due to your wrong thought, stress, fear,...
I could be wrong, who know? I'm glad the worst is over for you and you on track to be yourself again.
Again, the best thing I still think one can do with any health problem is stop your FEAR. Fear is useles, it had not a single benefit in our fight against any illness. It only make it worse. |
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 13:32:29
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quote:
Originally posted by balto
I think something must be very stressful had happened to you at that time and it caused all those extreme tms/anxiety symptoms. Work, life, health... worries, plus conditioning and wrong thoughts probably threw you into an extreme "fear loop" which produced all those nasty symptoms.
Balto, on this we agree... as long as you're talking about what happened BEFORE stopping the medications.
Again, maybe you're not reading my posts in their entirety... but I WAS STOPPING THE MEDICATION BECAUSE I HAD MADE SO MUCH PROGRESS. I was NOT afraid of stopping. I had NO IDEA of withdrawal, and the stress in my life was much more under control.
What you're talking about DID cause my ORIGINAL anxiety symptoms. (But, the chaos that ensued when stopping the tiny bit of ineffective medication was a different thing all together.)
It did NOT cause gastritis, weight loss, months of night sweats, massive depression and a host of other symptoms that solely related to quitting the medication. (And then resolved with no life changes in time, as is always the case in withdrawal.)
I'm a believer in TMS, Balto. (Or anxiety, however you want to label it.) But, there are some things that fall outside of this process. Benzo withdrawal is one of them.
quote:
Originally posted by balto
I would doubt that the FDA would have approved those medicine you've took if they were that dangerous.
Oh my.
Balto, you need to do some serious homework on psych medications. These are indeed very dangerous drugs for some. Do a simple google search for "benzo withdrawal."
There's a reason doctors are finally starting to refuse to give them out.
quote:
Originally posted by balto
I could be wrong, who know? I'm glad the worst is over for you and you on track to be yourself again.
Again, the best thing I still think one can do with any health problem is stop your FEAR. Fear is useles, it had not a single benefit in our fight against any illness. It only make it worse.
On this we agree. I've been through trauma and it needs to be dealt with. Fear is indeed at the core of my problem, no matter how these symptoms came on. I need to work every day to overcome it.
On this, we completely agree.
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 15:12:19
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Originally posted by balto
"I would doubt that the FDA would have approved those medicine you've took if they were that dangerous. "
Balto, this is profoundly naive. You'd be (evidently) amazed at the dangerous medications the FDA approves. JUst listen to one of those tv commercials for XYZ medication. The list of side effects are enough to make your toes curl. The whole process by the way is deeply corrupt and wildly hypocritical. it's fine to take anti-psychotic medication which every now and then turns someone into a drooling, twitching wretch for life, but smoke a little pot and you can go to jail for years in some states.
More to the point, Benzo withdrawal is it's own kind of hell. I've been there, and it damn near killed me. I know you mean well, but it's reckless and unfair to dismiss someone's experience without educating yourself first. Don't mean to be harsh. You're a great asset to the forum generally.
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Edited by - art on 04/16/2012 15:15:50 |
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 15:20:26
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Art,
Agree 100%.
But, let me just throw this out there... some people are simply never going to understand or be able to recognize something like benzo withdrawal, because it's simply so hard TO understand. Doctors are just now coming around... and basically admitting that it's a real syndrome for many.
But, does that sound like something else we know?
How about TMS, folks? Do all doctors buy into it? Yet, we know it's real, right?
In any case... maybe we can agree to move on past the medication issue here... and get back to the question at hand? After all, no matter what you believe happened to me or anyone else... the question of losing fear remains. What that looks like... is the real topic here.
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 15:32:18
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I generally don't discuss meds because I'm not a doctor, and because it's a complex, essentially private decision. PLus, it's off topic.
That said, I don't really see why benzo withdrawal is difficult to grasp. Painful withdrawal from habit forming drugs is a well-known phenomenon.
Part of the trouble is that there's a tendency here to want to reduce everything to TMS. I see it all the time. I just took issue with it on the current plantar fasciitis thread. People get injured sometimes, people get sick. Our bodies are not made of steel.
There's a long thread from a few years ago in the archives about a member of this forum who was assured over and over again by a TMS doc (well known I believe) that his pain was TMS. He neglected to pursue it with a conventional doctor on the basis of these assurances for quite a long while. A few years I believe. Turns out he had a severe calcium deficiency (or something like that) leading to devastating problems, including loss of height...His life will never be the same.
It's tempting to keep things simple, because complexity is painful, and ambiguity not at all reassuring. And that's what we all want. To be reassured. Feels good in the short term, but not always the smartest way to look at things....
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Edited by - art on 04/16/2012 15:35:33 |
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 16:10:19
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Art,
I agre... we can get a little "culty" here with our insistence that it's "all in the mind" all the time. Majority of the time, it is in our heads. But, like you said... there are certain physical processes that our bodies go through.
The reason I think people have a hard time believing benzo withdrawal is the amount of time.
People will give you a couple of weeks, and then they start to doubt it. A few months out, even most doctors think it's crazy to assume it could still be from the meds. Of course, if one is educated on the process... one knows it can take 18 months or more for some people to resume normal functioning.
When you say it almost killed you, I know that's not rhetoric. It's by far the hardest thing I've seen. I didn't know the body was capable of that kind of suffering. It made all of my TMS-related issues look like child's play. I regularly hear people who've been through it saying that surviving it was more difficult than anything they've ever been through, including death of family members, you name it. It truly is something that almost has to be experienced to be believed. I pray no one reading this message ever has to. And I just give thanks that I survived it and will hopefully return to the old me, even if the old me is anxious and has TMS issues to work out.
I'm also glad you made it through OK, Art. Congrats.
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 17:58:17
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Thanks for the kind words, Bryan. It took me a good year to even begin to feel normal. You're right about the length of time being hard to understand for people, but these drugs cause real changes in the brain. And there's a spectrum. Some don't suffer nearly so badly. Of course it's much, much better to taper slowly.
You'll get there. On top of the withdrawal symptoms you probably have some PTSD going. The good news is the brain is amazingly resilient. And let's not forget the human spirit. You'll look back on this one day as something positive, that is as a terrible experience which tested you to the limit, and you not only survived but thrived...becoming in the end a better, wiser, stronger person.
The experience of anxiety is universal, and in and of itself says nothing about us. It's how we handle it that counts.. |
Edited by - art on 04/16/2012 17:59:51 |
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Goodney
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 18:57:30
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Three years ago I was suffering with panic attacks and was having trouble sleeping. My family physician prescribed alprazolam (generic Xanax). This medication worked wonders for my anxiety, and helped me sleep. I quickly built up a tolerance, and within a week or two was needing double the original dose. I was dependent within a month and decided to quit cold turkey. I have never been so sick in my life. I thought I was going insane. The withdrawal lasted for weeks, but I was finally able to get the drug out of my system for good. I will never take a benzo again. Simply too dangerous.
I tell everyone I know who is considering benzos to run for their lives. I have read that in Europe, benzos can only be prescribed for a maximum of two weeks. They should only be used over the shortest of terms, as tolerance and dependency arise very quickly. |
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Losing fear - moving on - how?
