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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
 Posted - 02/14/2005 : 16:00:18
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Some of you may have noticed that I have on occssion been terse and questioning in my replies to some posts. I have noticed that some posters seem disingenuous and a waste of time. The posts just ring hollow to my TMS ear. They ask for help, say they are familiar with Sarno/TMS and then exhibit a pattern of ignorance and criticism based upon dis-information. I don't know if it is the same person or a few. A while back it was discovered that one person had several aliases.
They seem sincere at first, asking for help, get a lot of heartfelt, thoughtfull replies then are never heard from again.
That's why I've been pointing out some inconsistentcies in prior posts and asking some basic questions. Usually they are never answererd and the name is not seen again.
I'd like to throw this open to all to comment on and if anyone has any ideas on how to vet newbies before wasting energy on someone who is playing games with the board?
I don't like to appear harsh but I don't want to get board burn-out either.
Does anyone also have any thoughts on the psychological motivations of anyone to play games with people who are sincerely looking for answers to difficult questions regarding chronic pain both physical and emotional? |
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menvert
Australia
133 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 16:56:34
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quote:
Does anyone also have any thoughts on the psychological motivations of anyone to play games with people who are sincerely looking for answers to difficult questions regarding chronic pain both physical and emotional?
hmm, i see this type of behavour a lot on online games... usually 12 year olds who havent got resonable social skills yet only understand conflict & unfamiliar with friendship/helping others they're all ME ME ME...
but this situation is somewhat different.
my guess is its people who are infuriated by what we suggest. who are so incapable of finding resolve in their own problems they seek to 'balance' things by making it hard/unpleasant for those of us who are making progress with our issues & pain.
someone who utterly resents someone who has found their path to resolution.
or someone who just cant accept 'alternative' ideas & thinks we are all wack jobs to be toyed with for amusement....
envy & self hate come to mind. ie i dont like the way i am so ill blame others who have it better than me.
thinking we are stupid out of their unconcious understanding/fear that we may be right!
Maybe its even TMS at work! the unconcious brain is SOO in control it sets up personality patterns to push away all possible help??
and of course people coming for the quick fix/miricle cure & finding out real work is what its about.
lol any of the above. Ive seen simmilar attitudes in people ive met (and ocasionally i see similar patterns in myself(far less now as i age), but dont usually act upon). |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2005 : 22:33:19
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Thanks Menvert, that helped.
Regards,
tt |
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dizzy dave
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2005 : 07:36:07
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I hear ya.
I am somewhat new on the forum and have found tremendous comfort from the posts I've read and getting to know some of the people here. I for one, only have time to write at my computer at work. In fact, I am at my desk now. It is very difficult to spend the time necessary to write the kind of ideas that I would like to while answering the phone, printing labels, receiving customers, etc. However, every morning the first thing I do is go onto the forum and read a bit before I get my day started. I consider some of the things that people write about and go about my day. Recently I wrote a questionnaire hoping to see if it may act as a help for myself and others. I haven't responded to it in the past week or so. I have, however, spoken to a customer of mine who has MS and has written many papers and has had much of her writing published on alternative medicine. She is very much aware of TMS and was interested in the "study" that I suggested. I sent her a link to the forum and a copy of some particular writing. She is thinking about submitting it to Harvard, I believe for review. Maybe they’ll do a comprehensive study on historical backgrounds of people with different TMS symptoms. Or, maybe nothing will actually happen. I don't know why I feel it's necessary to tell you this, but perhaps you should know that there is good that can be done away from the forum.
Dave
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2005 : 18:27:54
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Tom.
Well,we had our one friend,but after his last incarnation I haven't had a sniff of him.
Maybe some of these people really are sticking their toe in the water and than retreating.
My other neighbour in LA(not the one who turned me on to Sarno) got well at the same time as me(though he was reading it on a ship at sea....I didn't see him for a long time after we had both recovered)He was thoroughly indoctrinated into Sarno,his back recovered......and than 2 years later had a shoulder surgery for what he assured me was a truly 'structural' problem.
We had thin walls.....I also knew his old lady and him were fighting constantly.She wasn't in his life when his back healed.
Maybe these people are like him....they read,have a fleeting moment of seeing some hope ,and than retreat into the system?????
.....but I like to be as terse as the next guy....
....that's why I ususally wait OR give a short question-answer to the newbies...like "Wow...that sounds really familiar...tell us more about yourself"....the MrosenthalTMSpainDiskpainSarnoSoldiers tend to never reply,as you said....
just a thought.
Baseball65 |
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menvert
Australia
133 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2005 : 18:35:34
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yeah, also i had another thought on the subject.
When we reply to a message . we are not only replying to that person.
Other people read the posts... so there's no need to feel that you've wasted your time, because somebody else may read it and go AH-HA that clears something up for me. |
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pault
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2005 : 04:27:00
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| Hi TT. I think most people are sincere but many want a magic bullet,and are too impatient to research the system to discover what the problem is.I think most people have to go througt the medical merry go round,to enough dead ends and eventually come back to Sarno as it is the only thing that works.Many people will commonly say: I don't have time to read,or race through the book only to say it dosen't work.My reaction to that is:I guess you don't hurt that much then!Eventually they come back and start reading.This site is busy because all of us benefit from each others knowledge.We appreciate your time. thanks Paul. |
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kenny V
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2005 : 08:28:42
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Just wanted to offer you some words of encouragement.
Cause a place like this needs a guy like you always around, I still don’t forget your first welcoming words, when I was looking for help.
Being such a generous man you have invested many hours of you time encouraging, with only the reward of appreciation as your return.
Hey! We had a couple of tough matches, but you still played. Fair. You’re neither a poor sportsman nor a sore looser.
Anyway you are a gem Tom, a one of a kind and a true TMS veteran at it’s best. Sticking out many changes of the environment, while growing in the TMS knowledge.
However, it can also wear you down in the process of it.
Don’t let it Tom; learn to take a break, just like you need to do with your TMS hip and your tennis obsession.
I am sorry to hear that some of newbies that have not fully accepted the Tms theory are running you dry.
Explaining over and over the mistakes they make with Physical connection, not applying the emotional. Component can be burdensome.
But this is also to be expected from newbies and seekers as well, that need to be convinced that they are missing something in the application and desire to know what it is.
Now as far as the immature folks and jokes that take place, Like Dave once said, that is always going to happen from time to time. But it is usually not the norm.
But their is no excuse when in comes from an inside job; TMS personalities that have nothing better to do than get a kick out of taken someone for a personal emotional ride. And you put your self out there to help them. That is sic and malicious. Hey I remember their used to be a guy here that said he only posts for enjoyment, maybe he has nothing better to do anymore and he has got real good at learning all of your TMS profiles and really knows how to push your buttons. Hey I was taken for a few rides, and know longer find it rewarding to invest time in a sic joke. I think humor is good and we all need to have a light side but out of hand in no longer offers a safe environment.
Any way,
Just like to tell ya we love ya Tom.
And I have to really give credit to Dave, who continually has uses discernment for a long time invests his personal life to help provide a place to come for answers. He knows when to let you answer your own questions amongst, also when to use his authority and knowledge in representing Dr Sarno’s work and a misconception of the TMS theory. This is very hard to do with out getting all caught up in the emotional aspect in dealing with relationships on a personal level. God bless Dave to keep his focus and strength.
This is a true quality to have, I have witnessed first hand mothers who have been part of Autism recovery / mercury poised recovery groups, who have lived through the worst traumatic life experiences in watching their child deteriorate after developing normal. Going through the worst nightmares a parent can have. Detoxing a child while trying to regain all the milestones the child has lost. When the world around them does not believe their child was poisoned, nor does the mainstream medical community take responsibility nor believe in a cure for Autism spectrum disorder.
And these parents of these groups remain strong and compassionate, putting them selves out there for others who are desperate looking for help. They take the time, over and over again answering the same simple beginner questions of where is one to start in this recovery process.
Like I said when I first thanked this group for being there for me: there are two people who come to a support group. “ The ones who are looking for answers and hope and those who found them and are willing to share this with one another.”
Always Hope For Recovery
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2005 : 09:14:06
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Thanks for the answers, one and all. The kind words are greatly appreciated. To Dizzy Dave, no I was not referring to you, you sound like a very sincere person. We had some tricksters in the past, that Baseball65 alluded to and my competitive nature makes me want to play the game.
KennyV, really appreciated your kind words and we've played a few friendly matches ourselves, that was a beautiful post.
Menvert, you make a good point, the posts stand by themselves and are useful to all who read them.
Pault, I like your line, "I guess you don't hurt that much then."
Many people need their pain.
I'm half-way to LA, to see Dr. Schechter and Donald Dubin tomorrow. Spent last night at Buelton, home of Split-Pea Andersen's and the area where the recent movie "Sideways" was made. |
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Albert
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2005 : 09:38:05
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Look at the bright sides:
Even if your efforts don't help a person like disc pain, perhaps they help somebody else. Perhaps somebody who reads the posts on this site but doesn't post.
Also, your efforts probably play a part in strengthening your own anti TMS symptom conditioning.
And who knows, maybe one day disc pain will get tired of the pain and some of what you shared will bear fruit. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2005 : 16:38:02
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Thanks Albert,
I agree writing the posts are benificial to both parties. When I accidently lose one, I still feel some good for having thought it through, but it's a bit like coitus interruptus. |
Edited by - tennis tom on 02/16/2005 16:39:03 |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2005 : 20:49:49
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Hi Tennis Tom,
You should not be hard on yourself asking the hard questions. People like you, austingary, Dave, and others, have been the mainstay of sensibility on this forum. You all should be congradulated.
I've also noticed how this forum has changed, especially the volume of posts/replies in the last couple months. I can't even read all the posts any more. In some way, the forum was easier to keep up with before it became more discovered/popular. When the volume goes up, you do get a higher percentage of people who are looking for the easy way to recovery. I've seen this on other forums I used to participate in.
Anyway, thank you and keep up doing the Dr's good work. We're behind you 100%
Take care, -Stryder |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2005 : 01:38:04
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I've been reading the posts here and here is what I think .
We are not tms professionals. We are neither trained nor do we have the medical expertise to back us up. However many of us simply by having had some form of recovery or because we have read the books seem to think that what we say or post on the board is sound advice for all and that anyone who disagrees or doubts should not get the benefit of their so called wisdom.
It is up to people who post to decide whether or not they want to tow the tms line. Many I would imagine are in unbearable physical pain not to mention all the emotional stuff that is going on and have somehow dared to explore this avenue of treatment. Well you say so are we, but honestly we have no idea what others are going through. The fact that many stay even for a while is a good sign. At least they are willing to try and who knows maybe they may even encourage others to give it a go. That they decide to choose an alternative path does not mean that they are weak, or that they don't have the strength to follow through or that they do not deserve our care sympathy and whatever advice we give them. They have simply made another choice after having investigated this one. It is after all a matter of free will.
If anyone is feeling bothered I think they need to think why. Tom it seems to me that you are bugged with people who don't listen to or agree with you or you think are wasting your time. It is hard to judge whether someone is genuine or a time waster especially when you can't see them face to face. I don't feel comfortable making a judgement like that unless it is blatantly apparent and even then it is difficult to judge who deserves the benefit of your insight and who doesn't. If you are feeling some kind of burn out then perhaps you need to stand back and think about this. You are obviously putting a lot of yourself into this forum.
When we post we help ourselves more than we help others. In fact we don't help, we just facilitate. We should never IMO think that we are wasting energy and I certainly don't want to start 'screening people' or making decisions about who should be allowed to recieve information and who shouldn't coz its dangerous. This isn't a power thing nor do we want people to start thinking 'was it me', 'did I say something I shouldn't have' or 'I'll be more careful about what I post'. We are strong enough and big enough to accept that not all people who come here will convert and we are not in the habit of converting.
All are welcome tms believers and non believers.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
Edited by - mala on 02/20/2005 03:43:06 |
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Mat
2 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2005 : 08:02:35
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| Well said Mala |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2005 : 08:36:10
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quote:
Your enemy who tells you the truth is more valuable than your friend who lies to you
--Tom
UnfortunaTELY the way most of us are configured,we like the soft warm and fuzzy hugs.
I was actually happy when you questioned me about getting spread thin the other day.You and others on this board are my peers,and like any peer group,it is important to get a bodycheck from time to time.
Some people might have interpreted that statement as offensive and subsequently gotten defensive or crappy.Since I respect you ,I took it seriously and reflected on it.I remembered that in the final analysis it is only what we believe that is true.
It didn't stop me from my constant searching,but it DID make me spend a day in the kitchen questioning myself,asking "what DO I really believe"....either way,it strengthened,not weakened me.
Unfortunately,to steal a quote,The truth is the worst show on TV and nobody wants to watch it.
Hell...they found that out when they tried to let reality shows be real.
Keep on keepin' it real...otherwise the truth might become diluted and be effective for No one.
peace=war
love=hate
---George Orwell and Lao-tse
Baseball65 |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2005 : 10:36:08
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Quote from a quote from Baseball65:
"Unfortunately,to steal a quote,The truth is the worst show on TV and nobody wants to watch it.
Hell...they found that out when they tried to let reality shows be real."
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Mala, Baseball65 and Stryder,
Thanks for the replies. I think a few of us want to "watch the truth" on TV--that's why God gave us remote controls for channel surfing. I remember the days when we had an Emerson with a mahogany cabinet and two doors on it. It caught fire one day and I threw a pot of water on it saving the house from burning down. We sat in front of it--but not too close--dangerous rays, probably caused a lot of TMS.
Back then, it was all black and white and the TV repairman made house-calls and so did your FAMILY DOCTOR! He had some insight of you, your family relationships and your environment. NOT ANYMORE! Now the medical profession views us like broken down cars. We are plugged into diagnostic devices to pull up trouble codes. The mind is not something that lends itself to such diagnosis readily. Therefore it gets ignored--clogs up the waiting room. Our governments are working on this though, by trying to "teach" us what we can say and can't.
Baseball65, I admire you for not having cable, my girlfriend doesn't either--she reads. I'm a news and info junky and am always searching the airwaves for something on the Travel, Discovery or History chanels for some truth. I find the Food Network to be the least offensive and my favorite, when I can't take the bad world news anymore or network spin.
I re-read my original post and think it still valid. It was a call for dialogue and we got some. Some took offense and haven't been heard from since, some came out of lurking.
I don't regret it. Sometimes to find the truth you have to be willing to stick your neck out on the chopping block. |
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kenny V
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2005 : 17:33:56
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quote:
Your enemy who tells you the truth is more valuable than your friend who lies to you
TT , BB or any one
I like that quote .
where does it come from?
Btw Mala good post
Always Hope For Recovery
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Kavita
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2005 : 06:31:26
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Dear Tom,
Your posts have made a world of difference to me. When I was struggling with terminating my physical therapy, your words showed me that I should trust my gut. (BTW, I haven't been back since, and I couldn't be happier about my decision.)
You have this remarkable blend of realism with encouragement; you are one of a kind, and we are all the better for it. I totally understand your frustration, and you are not obligated to post a reply if you don't feel like it. Just know that you have made a difference to all of us, and we enjoy your company! |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2005 : 10:04:13
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Thank you Kavita,
Your kind words are greatly appreciated. I've been going through a rough patch recently--work, relationships, lawsuits. Thinking TMS'ly is keeping me afloat.
Sincerely,
tt
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2005 : 14:27:41
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quote:
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Your enemy who tells you the truth is more valuable than your friend who lies to you
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TT , BB or any one
I like that quote .
where does it come from?
Btw Mala good post
Always Hope For Recovery
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Dear KennyV,
Sorry it took me a while to get back to you, been on the road alot. That quote came from my yoga teacher Tony Briggs. He probably said it during one of his Sunday morning yoga class "sermons", while we were holding a long "downward dog" pose. Actually I haven't been taking any classes for several years but hope to return to him soon. He's one of the best teachers on the planet. He actually teaches, versus just getting up in front of a class and modeling the poses.
I've been on several yoga retreats with him. For evening entertainment we would watch videos of BKS Iyengar and Clint Eastwood movies. I remember a funny scene Tony loved. I think Henry Fonda shoots a member of his gang who wore suspenders and a belt at the the same time. When asked why, he said, "How can you trust someone who can't even trust his own belt?".
Kenny, are you watching the series on autism this week? I think it's on CNBC.
Best wishes,
tt
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kenny V
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2005 : 12:37:26
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quote:
Your enemy who tells you the truth is more valuable than your friend who lies to you
Tom that’s a real good find.
Ya know growing up; I really never liked to see this happening in families who continue to enable a love one. This is always a hard one for all of us. Even a from one TMS’er to another. Especially to administer tough love to an immediate family member with problems such as drug addictions.
Or examples such as lying to family members about grandma’s health, and being fake around a love one. (They sense it anyway).
It would be better to deal with the sickness openly and honest, and be able to spend the last days of their lives enjoying the company of their family. Often times parents do this with their children thinking it is protecting them, but not being truthful dealing with reality, only complicates the problem all the more.
(Of course you need to be sensitive to their age and maturity level)
This is also valid to TMS thinking we continually need be honest with ourselves with our out of control emotions, once it is revealed to what we might continue to repress.
And if we have discovered what is the real culprit to our symptoms (with me it was primarily ANGER), we can help reduce them and break the cycle.
I really believe that quote came from King Solomon, but couldn’t find it, however there is a lot of truth to a similar quote. quote:
Open rebuke is better than secret love.
Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.
Proverbs 27:5-6
Always Hope For Recovery
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Something That's Been Bugging Me Here
