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kstarnes
USA
21 Posts |
 Posted - 03/15/2012 : 14:29:48
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I have had TMS since I was 14 (that's when the low back pain started and continued until recently). I am now 51 and am struggling again with flare ups. Doing the math, I have had TMS for 37 years. I was wondering if there was any correlation between how long one has had it and it taking longer to overcome it? I have read all of Sarno's books and Steve O's last week. I am not asking how long I will have it, but if others have had it a long time too and are still battling it? I am getting frustrated and trying to keep on believing.
kevin starnes |
Edited by - kstarnes on 03/15/2012 14:32:53 |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 15:27:41
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...if others have had it a long time too and are still battling it?
Yes. I've had LBP and various equivelants on and off for as long as you. LBP was the most common, but that's been gone 10+ years. The list is something like, LBP, IBS, RSI, MVP, tinnitus, autoimmune hyperthyroidism, anxiety,,, lucky though usually only one at a time, interspersed with equal periods of no symptoms. The autoimmune hyperthyroidism (Graves Disease) was the worst because it is not beneign and must be treated medically (its an autoimmune disease of the endocrine system), although I'm sure the Id had something to do with starting it.
Overall, finding Dr. Sarno's books and the TMS theory saved my life since I now know what's been going, and its made a huge reduction in the intensity and duration of symptoms.
Take care,
-Stryder |
Edited by - Stryder on 03/16/2012 16:46:53 |
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tmsjptc
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2012 : 17:44:50
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| Started with dizziness about age 14 but didn't know it was TMS then. Didn't get all the pain (upper back, shoulders, neck, and tension headaches) until age 28. Continued (regardless of everything else I tried) until age 44. I read a couple of Dr. Sarno's books back in October and have gradually getting relief since then. Right now I'm only experiencing about 10% of the pain and symptoms I used to have. I guess that's a total of 30 years of which 16 were painful. |
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Darko
Australia
387 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2012 : 18:21:30
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Kevin,
it sounds like you would like the pain to go away so that you can go back to your old ways of being.....that will never happen IMO. No wonder youre frustrated.
If you dont want your teeth to fallout you have to brush them daily.
If you don't want pain or symptoms then you have to do the work regularly......accept it...it is what it is, and it may change!
No point pushing back on something that isn't a choice......if you ever get to the point where it becomes a choice (you figure something out that we dont know) then you can choose powerfully.
Until that day, you might find life a little more pleasant if you just choose TMS and do the work.....because it has chosen you, and generating more negative emotion will just lead to more TMS pain.
Find a way to use TMS to propel you forward in every area of your life, turn it into a blessing as I have.
Resistance leads to suffering.....period!
Change your perspective on things.......this is the MOST important thing
good luck
D |
Edited by - Darko on 03/17/2012 18:22:28 |
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MatthewNJ
USA
691 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2012 : 10:49:52
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Darko,
Brilliant post! I have had the same experience. And I have witnessed many, many folks, who feel better, go back to the "old ways" and relapse.
My favorite Viktor Frankl quote is
"Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom"
Matthew
Ferretsx3@comcast.net
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Less activated, more regulated and more resilient. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2012 : 10:59:44
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quote:
Originally posted by kstarnes
I was wondering if there was any correlation between how long one has had it and it taking longer to overcome it?
The first step is stop trying to "overcome" it.
Accept TMS as part of your life. One who is subject to psychogenic symptoms will always experience those symptoms in one way or another throughout their lifetime. Recovery is not about becoming pain free, which IMO is an unrealistic goal. It is about understanding why you get these symptoms, and not allowing them to control you. |
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lynnl
USA
109 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2012 : 02:24:46
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I think each person's opinion is likely to be different, depending on their personal experience with TMS and their success.
As for me, I think it's pretty much the same as weight loss. Most everybody can lose the weight, but in order to keep it off long term it requires a permanent change in life style.
I think long term or permanent resolution of TMS is the same. It requires a permanent change in your mental and emotional life style. That's my opinion. I do agree with Dave, that for most everyone prone to TMS, some form or symptom will always be trying to rear its ugly head. ...UNLESS, you can make that permanent psychological life style change (a tough task for most).
As for the role that the length or duration of TMS, before attempts to interrupt the process, I don't think it makes much difference. In fact I can see a valid argument to be made that a longer period would actually be better to cope with. Reason being, any initial relief would be more readily accepted or recognized as coming from your efforts to nip it in the bud, rather than just a coincidental improvement. Again, that's just my opinion.
And since I'm offering opinions, here's another: I think more severe or more painful symptoms, can, in general, be dealt with more easily and successfully than minor little niggling chronic issues. And likewise I feel that more continuous, constant pains are more easily resolved than those of an intermittent or sporadic nature. My rationale includes that I mentioned for the question of duration, PLUS it's reasonable to expect that one would be more highly motivated to put forth the mental time and effort to deal with more severe, constant symptoms.
I've certainly found that to apply in my case. I currently have pain in the left knee that I find hard to terminate, largely (I believe) because it only hurts under certain conditions; most of the time there's no pain at all. It doesn't hurt at all when I put weight on that leg, only when I take the load off, and even then it's mostly an intermittent condition.
Lynn |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2012 : 06:44:52
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| 31 years. Sciatica and equivalents. 80 - 90% better pain wise due to Sarno and much less fearful when symptoms attack. |
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MatthewNJ
USA
691 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2012 : 07:24:30
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Fox,
Totally COOL! It CAN be done!
Matthew
Ferretsx3@comcast.net
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Less activated, more regulated and more resilient. |
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Sarnotic-nerve
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2012 : 09:48:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Darko
Kevin,
it sounds like you would like the pain to go away so that you can go back to your old ways of being.....that will never happen IMO. No wonder youre frustrated.
D
That isn't the impression I got. He doesn't want to be 13!
You've had the pain for 37 years. You can eliminate it in 37 hours...but you have to KNOW that. It doesn't matter how long you've been suffering the symptoms of TMS.
You're still relatively young and should be living as active of life as you wish.
Will you have some setbacks? Probably. Most of us do. But they're no big deal. If you understand TMS, then you know you're fighting FEAR, not the TMS!
Make no mistake, you can't read a few books and magically feel better. You need to really understand what TMS is. I read the Sarno books four times before I really felt confident.
If you have someone to talk to about it, that helps too. These forums are great. Dr. Schubiner's program might help.
Do you stretch your back everyday? STOP!
Do you have special seat cushions? Toss them in the trash!
Ice packs? Let them melt!
Advil? That **** will kill you!
It's fascinating stuff, Kevin!
______________
The pain is real! The cause...well, that's complicated. ;) |
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cnotes11
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2012 : 11:19:47
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"Find a way to use TMS to propel you forward in every area of your life, turn it into a blessing as I have.
Resistance leads to suffering.....period!
Change your perspective on things.......this is the MOST important
thing"
Darko... I am curious how you've turned TMS into a blessing? I agree with you that resistance generally leads to more suffering...but what you are advising is much easier said than done.
Every day I use mantras and try to keep positive self talk going. But often it feels hollow.. its like staring a a black wall and saying "th is white". Words and thoughts get overpowered by staggering evidence to the contrary.
If you can keep a good perspective while constantly in pain I think that's a big achievement. As I say I continue trying, but at times feels like a losing battle, im sure some others relate.
@dave technically isn't everyone here trying to "overcome it" or am I just nitpicking with words?
"Accept TMS as part of your life. Recovery is not about becoming pain free, which IMO is an unrealistic goal."
I find this really depressing and I disagree. I hope you are wrong because I'm 25 -- things feel pretty marginalized -- and if the best I can hope for is taking the edge of my symptoms I kind of want to just skip it.
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2012 : 11:41:26
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cnotes,
What do you believe is causing your symptoms? This is the most important question that you have to ask yourself a thousand times a day. If it is "TMS," "anxiety" or whatever else you want to call it, then the symptoms should not only be ignored, but they have to be ignored as a barrier to doing whatever you need or want to do, because they are just an excuse, even if you feel like you should go to the ER for relief. That is the path to recovery. It is either a slow slog or a quick jog, but it's the way out. What you believe is going on is paramount, supreme, and will remain so.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Aided and abetted by corrupt analysts, patients who have nothing better to do with their lives often use the psychoanalytic situation to transform insignificant childhood hurts into private shrines at which they worship unceasingly the enormity of the offenses committed against them. This solution is immensely flattering to the patients—as are all forms of unmerited self-aggrandizement; it is immensely profitable for the analysts—as are all forms pandering to people's vanity; and it is often immensely unpleasant for nearly everyone else in the patient's life.
Dr. Thomas Szasz |
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tennis tom
USA
4746 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2012 : 12:13:01
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PAIN is a distraction from feeling overwhelming emotions. This is decided by OUR subconscious, residing throughout our mindbodies. We can turn this around, by understanding the pain is real but harmless. USE YOUR LIFE AS A DISTRACTION FROM THE PAIN. Break through the pain, do what you want to do. Be creative and make up strategies that work around the pain, until the day you can breakthrough it head-on.
My personal strategy, since I no longer can or desire to run, ACCEPT on the tennis court, (I have completed thirteen marathons), is I now run in the pool for thirty or more minutes, to maintain my aerobic fitness. I may even take a stab at running on the streets someday if I feel like giving it a try. Yesterday I tried running after a ball on the court and it definitely wasn't happening yet. My work around for it is playing doubles where I don't have to cover as much of the court.
My TMS/arthritis(?) immobility has been one of my best coaches, forcing me to develop all the other aspects of my sport that are not dependent on running. At this point, subjectively, I consider things to be at least a wash. Once speed was one of my weapons, now technique, strategy and tactics are my weapons. Play a game with the TMS gremlin, think outside the box. Develop work-arounds if you can't break thorough the pain yet--but keep showing up for for that day. Make living life your positive distraction from the pain distraction. |
Edited by - tennis tom on 03/31/2012 12:22:05 |
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Sarnotic-nerve
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2012 : 21:11:12
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Cnotes, Hillbilly is absolutely right!
Positive talk, mantras...you're not coaching a 6 year old!
Get after it, yell at yourself! You have anger and rage built up, let every bit of your body and brain know that you arent putting up with this any longer.
Becoming TMS pain free is an absolute must! And you do so by laughing in its face! Do not let it prevent you from doing anything!
______________
The pain is real! The cause...well, that's complicated. ;) |
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cnotes11
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2012 : 02:55:41
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Given the information I have and what I've experienced so far I believe the cause of my symptoms to be subconscious emotional states.
I agree with you that symptoms should be ignored (where possible) and not allowed to dictate your life... I was simply asking someone to share how they approach this because from their post it seemed as if they'd succeeded.
Sometimes I get frustrated with people making blanket statements or generalizing without mentioning much applicable "how to" information...everyone experiences different levels of pain and has different capacities to cope. But I don't understand what the TMS perspective would say to someone with..for example cluster headaches. You cant tell someone like that not to resist, or to just ignore symptoms, etc..they can't. I think the mindset there very quickly becomes how am I going to make it through today.
@tennis toms - well done it sounds like you've mastered the art of keeping a good attitude through difficult situations. I am trying to do the same, but don't always succeed.
@Sarnotic-nerve I have read that using mantras and maintaining positive self dialogue is beneficial for mental and physical health. I assume by "yelling at yourself" you mean express emotions, sure point taken. But with "let every bit of your body and brain know that you arent putting up with this any longer." you've lost me.
There is no part of my consciousness that does not want to do, think feel, or behave however is necessary to get out of pain. Clearly I haven't gotten there yet, so when people tell me in effect "just do it" I don't find it helpful, even though I have no doubt you have the best intentions.
I don't know maybe its all too subjective.
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Sarnotic-nerve
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2012 : 05:30:40
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You don't ignore the symptoms, cnotes. That usually takes some super-human will power and pain tolerance. Your goal is to get to a place where you can prevent the pain from occurring in the first place. Once that happens, you may occasionally battle some accute symptoms. They will be less severe and will subside much more quickly!
"Just do it!" may seem like its reducing a very complex set of emotions and actions to a marketing slogan. But once you understand the concept of TMS, there's no other suitable course of action.
I understand how completely demoralizing TMS can be. It takes hold of your entire being...every aspect of life. It's a horrible way to live. And sometimes it can make you want to give up...but that's when your mantras need to include Sarno's 12 Daily reminders as if it is your life depends on it. Believing in all 12 100% is the only way to cure yourself.
You are 25 years old. That is exactly when I started experiencing TMS pain symptoms. It took me 10 years to figure it out. I had so many daily rituals and physical prevention tactics...they were all a false sense of security. Finally, I read the Sarno books repeatedly until I had the understanding and confidence to face the TMS head on, before any pain was produced.
After a 6 week sciatic fiasco, I started by going on walks with my wife and kids and quickly realized it actually made me feel better. Not only was I out enjoying life with my family, but I was starting physical activity. Within a week or two, I was back to playing golf, boxing and excercising daily... I was back to my life for the first time in ten years!
Meditation helped me quite a bit. Like many,I have some anxiety issues. Meditation and reprogramming my brain has helped with that quite a bit. Feelings and emotions come and go. There's no sense on dwelling on the negative ones...especially when you consider the cause....which is typically trivial.
Do I feel perfect 100% of the time? Nope...but pretty close. I'm walking 18 holes of golf later today and carrying my bag. I plan on staining our 800 sq ft. deck tomorrow. No big deal!
The fact that you are young and have read the Sarno books is impressive. You're going to succeed...and like Darko said, you may even eventually view TMS as a blessing.
FEAR is YOUR NUMBER ONE ENEMY!
______________
The pain is real! The cause...well, that's complicated. ;) |
Edited by - Sarnotic-nerve on 04/01/2012 05:35:42 |
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tennis tom
USA
4746 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2012 : 08:57:32
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quote:
Originally posted by cnotes11
I don't know maybe its all too subjective.
YES! The subconscious IS subjective. Too subjective to be fully comprehended. GOOD CALL! Don't over think, it's not rocket science.
Here are your mantras:
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
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Edited by - tennis tom on 04/02/2012 08:45:48 |
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cnotes11
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2012 : 05:22:53
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| I am glad you are able to stain your deck and play golf. |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2012 : 08:16:11
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quote:
Originally posted by cnotes11
Sometimes I get frustrated with people making blanket statements or generalizing without mentioning much applicable "how to" information...
Fear your symptoms is what keep the pain there. And this is the "how to": elliminate your fear of your symptoms. Don't fear it any more. Easier said than done? yes, but that is the only way. All treatment methods aimed for that same goal, think about it. |
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cnotes11
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2012 : 10:17:02
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Thanks balto I appreciate your sentiment of trying to help. But I am beginning to think it is not so productive for me to post on here. I seem to hit the same impasse every time.... where I either disagree with people, am frustrated by how easy they make it sound or agree but can't practically see how to get from A to B.
I am admittedly not in the most positive frame of mind and I don't want to be negative in a place where so many people are suffering. |
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Sarnotic-nerve
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2012 : 10:37:25
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quote:
Originally posted by cnotes11
I am admittedly not in the most positive frame of mind and I don't want to be negative in a place where so many people are suffering.
Don't be so hard on yourself. However, IMO- If you're going to be a smart ass, yeah, it's not productive for you to be here.
But 99% of the people on these forums have felt or are feeling just as you are now. Helpless, depressed, angry, frustrated, moody, apathetic, etc... IT SUCKS!
Which TMS books have you read so far? Have you tried any of the online programs?
______________
The pain is real! The cause...well, that's complicated. ;) |
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Length of TMS in one's Life?
