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cnotes11
USA
49 Posts |
 Posted - 04/02/2012 : 10:54:57
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That comment wasn't meant in that way. I am glad you can do those things, I can imagine its a good feeling. I just didnt know what else to say in response to your comment.
HBP, The mindbody prescription, divided mind, many other related books
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Structured_Educational_Program
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Sarnotic-nerve
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2012 : 11:50:05
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quote:
Originally posted by cnotes11
That comment wasn't meant in that way. I am glad you can do those things, I can imagine its a good feeling. I just didnt know what else to say in response to your comment
Gotcha- thanks! A year ago, I would have been in severe pain after doing just about anything physical. And I [b]knew[/] that going into it. As you know, that's the problem.
I've found that you don't have to ignore/suppress thoughts of pain (it's impossible), you just have to know that you're not going to be injured or in pain as a result of whatever it is you set out to do.
quote:
Originally posted by cnotes11
HBP, The mindbody prescription, divided mind, many other related books
http://tmswiki.org/ppd/Structured_Educational_Program
Great! The Divided Mind really helped me understand TMS better. I listened to the audio book version a few times and finally, it just clicked. The interview w/ Dr. Sarno at the end of that book is excellent too!
This TMS stuff can get overwhelming. I discovered that even when my physical symptoms went away, I was still completely consumed w/ TMS. So I started meditating and studying Buddhism/Zen. I found that it provided me with some ways to deal with my emotions and live life without making it all about TMS.
Some good talks on Anger and fear:
http://www.audiodharma.org/talks/audio_player/1531.html
http://www.audiodharma.org/talks/audio_player/1542.html
http://www.audiodharma.org/talks/audio_player/1523.html
http://www.audiodharma.org/talks/audio_player/1527.html
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The pain is real! The cause...well, that's complicated. ;) |
Edited by - Sarnotic-nerve on 04/02/2012 11:51:24 |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2012 : 11:53:24
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cnotes,
I suffered, as have many here. My pain and other symptoms had me tied in knots and nearly cost me my job and my family. I had headaches that I wouldn't wish on anyone. I had to force myself to get up and do what I needed to do in order to get back into living.
You can stand on the sidelines and watch for a while, but if you want to play you have to check in to the game and go play. Forget about how you feel. You will feel like $!$% for a good while yet. By ignoring the symptoms, I mean you can't use them as an excuse for not doing something, whether physical or emotional.
People don't ask for raises because of emotional symptoms. They don't like how they feel when rejected. They don't ask girls/boys out on dates for the same reasons. They don't exercise because it causes discomfort. One is emotional, the other physical, but they both have repercussions on you both physically and emotionally. So, given that you understand what you need to do to get through each day, you must now do them without excuses. You can't blame how you feel for not accomplishing things. When I started this I thought the people who gave me advice were nuts, but I was sick of suffering. If you are sick of it, then you have to go back to living, let the pain or whatever be there, and just keep going.
How's that for practical?
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Aided and abetted by corrupt analysts, patients who have nothing better to do with their lives often use the psychoanalytic situation to transform insignificant childhood hurts into private shrines at which they worship unceasingly the enormity of the offenses committed against them. This solution is immensely flattering to the patients—as are all forms of unmerited self-aggrandizement; it is immensely profitable for the analysts—as are all forms pandering to people's vanity; and it is often immensely unpleasant for nearly everyone else in the patient's life.
Dr. Thomas Szasz |
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Sarnotic-nerve
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2012 : 12:40:47
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Contrary to what Hillbilly said, YOU DON'T HAVE TO SUFFER WITH PAIN. And you don't have to let it be there. You've done that!
You can get rid of it. It might take hours, days or weeks. That depends on many things. BUT YOU SHOULD ABSOLUTELY EXPECT A RESOLUTION, A PAIN FREE LIFE..SOON!
When it comes to fighting TMS and FEAR, it's not about "mind over matter" or "working up the strength." You simply need to resume life. And you're have to be 100% committed and convinced! 90% is the same as 0.0%
Are there any TMS docs in your area?
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The pain is real! The cause...well, that's complicated. ;) |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2012 : 15:26:39
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Hi Colin,
I have been following this thread and have read some of your postings. I feel for what you are going through. I see you have established that you really do have TMS and that it applies to you. Well done, this question will probably surface from time to time, especially if your recovery is slow or as you encounter difficulties.
From your past posts I’ve pulled a few of your comments that caught my eye.
Cnotes11
“However I think many would agree that it’s very difficult to change your thoughts. Particularly if you've developed a pattern over time.”
You can change your thoughts. I’ve done this many times and do it every day. It’s called Life. We are constantly bombarded with input that makes us think differently. Take the advertising arena whose whole focus is to change our minds to their way of thinking. This definitely works for them, or the millions of dollars would be wasted. The more open minded you are the more TMS will make sense. I agree it is indeed quite hard to be open minded when your mind is full of unanswered questions.
Cnotes11
“I see you picked up on my tendency to analyze things to death.”
I think this is a good trait to have. You want answers, you want them NOW. But sometimes the answer is buried deep in your unconscious mind and over thinking is not letting it surface. Colin instead of analyzing TMS issues, how about analyzing yourself? I did this the other day, It was fun, awkward embarrassing and informative all at the same time, and I was very surprised at the results. Here is what I did.
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7272
Cnotes11
You have also asked how the conscious vs unconscious works.
I had the same question how this works and I found the answer on Dr. Schubiner’s web site. Here is the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldyI7mJG2EA&feature=related
I encourage you to stay with the Forum, the help you need is here. I notice other posters have mentioned the all important emotional side so I have not addressed this here. I have had success with this program in 2000, and I wish you your own success.
I hope these answers are of help to Kevin who's thread this is. Thanks Kevin..
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Now on Day 11 Wiki Edu.
Charlie horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted soon.)
Books: Healing Back Pain
& Unlearn your Pain |
Edited by - andy64tms on 04/02/2012 21:05:27 |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2012 : 18:56:29
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Sarnotic-nerve,
I would like for you to go back and read every comment I've made on this forum and tell me where I said anyone needs to suffer. You will not find it. I am the biggest advocate here for forgetting about journaling, stopping thinking about emotions, stopping visiting forums, stopping buying books, and DOING what you need to do. And, yes, it will involve any measure of discomfort while you do things, but that isn't new, nor anything to worry about. If you take that to mean I think people have to suffer, then I suggest a remedial reading comprehension class.
I found a way out of my pain and anxiety symptoms. Four+ years of normal health. What is on your resume that qualifies you to give advice?
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Aided and abetted by corrupt analysts, patients who have nothing better to do with their lives often use the psychoanalytic situation to transform insignificant childhood hurts into private shrines at which they worship unceasingly the enormity of the offenses committed against them. This solution is immensely flattering to the patients—as are all forms of unmerited self-aggrandizement; it is immensely profitable for the analysts—as are all forms pandering to people's vanity; and it is often immensely unpleasant for nearly everyone else in the patient's life.
Dr. Thomas Szasz |
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Sarnotic-nerve
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2012 : 19:28:08
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Hillbilly, I was not attacking you or any of your posts.
I just disagree w/ this statement:
[i]"You will feel like $!$% for a good while yet."[i/]
No personal offense intended. Was simply offering a different opinion.
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The pain is real! The cause...well, that's complicated. ;) |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2012 : 21:03:12
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Dave comment…
“Recovery is not about becoming pain free, which IMO is an unrealistic goal. It is about understanding why you get these symptoms, and not allowing them to control you.”
Dave, can you please explain this in more detail, I don’t agree with it, and I don’t think Colin cnotes11 accepted it either. My back recovery in 2000 was exactly about becoming pain free, and I remained so for 12 years. During those 12 years I had no involvement with TMS books, forums or any mind over matter thinking. You can read about this in my Success2000 storey if you need.
I also believe that it is realistic to expect good results, as I now know this to be true from my previous experience. I do agree however, that once you have the disposition of TMS it may linger and return, as it did in my case, and the reason why I am back here, with neck issues of a different kind.
You have many more posts and experience and knowledge with this than I do, perhaps you could explain this in a different way.
Thanks for a great website
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Now on Day 11 Wiki Edu.
Charlie horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted soon.)
Books: Healing Back Pain
& Unlearn your Pain |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2012 : 23:20:04
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Nerve,
I don't think you were attacking me personally. I don't take things personally that are written here, so it's OK. But on the occasion I take my time to post here, it would be nice if someone actually read and understood what it is that is written. If you know personally of someone who has read one of these books and experienced a spontaneous remission, then please have them share their story. I've known more than 150 people in the past four years who are or were dealing with nervous illness, TMS, anxiety or whatever other label they were given. ALL of them, to a person, have experienced a period during recovery in which their symptoms were worse than before. What changed was their beliefs about their origin and their attitude toward them. That's it. That's the key to recovery.
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Aided and abetted by corrupt analysts, patients who have nothing better to do with their lives often use the psychoanalytic situation to transform insignificant childhood hurts into private shrines at which they worship unceasingly the enormity of the offenses committed against them. This solution is immensely flattering to the patients—as are all forms of unmerited self-aggrandizement; it is immensely profitable for the analysts—as are all forms pandering to people's vanity; and it is often immensely unpleasant for nearly everyone else in the patient's life.
Dr. Thomas Szasz |
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Sarnotic-nerve
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2012 : 05:30:24
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I had back (lower, upper, all over), neck, knee & shoulder pain for about ten years. Last July I had "sciatic" pain from my butt/pelvis to my ankle 24/7 for 6 weeks.
I never contemplated suicide but I felt like dying!
Spent about 10 days engulfed in Sarno's books. After reading/listening to The Divided Mind for the fourth time, my pain was gone! I know exactly where I was when it went away.i immediately got back into life w my one year old twins and resumed all physical activities. Full bore!
Again, immediate cessastion of pain!
Now, within the last few months I've had some accute "episodes" but nothing that lasts for more than a day or so. And it certainly doesn't keep me laid up or away from what I enjoy doing.
Listen to many of Sarno's case studies, the pain can go away immediately...even after long bouts w TMS symptoms.
So, my belief is that once you have a complete understanding of TMS, along with the right action, the pain can end Immediately.
I don't know if this a typical experience or not, but it was mine. A family member had a similar short recovery, with no worsening or rebound.
I still have people try to baby me, "Don't let him lift that, he"s got a bad back!" F THAT!
We all know the complexity of TMS and the mindbody connection in general, so people are going to have different stories and experiences. These forums are very important, in that they offer viewpoints from all types of people with a myriad of experiences.
Cnotes is 25 and he's read the books and programs...it's time for him to start feeling better...period! Hopefully we can help him realize he's not doomed.
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The pain is real! The cause...well, that's complicated. ;) |
Edited by - Sarnotic-nerve on 04/03/2012 05:35:12 |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2012 : 07:42:44
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Nerve,
Thanks for your story, but he's read the books and his pain didn't cease immediately. Again, I haven't met a single person whose experience matches yours. So, I think in order to help him we can a) exhort him to get back to activity safely; and b) remind him that if the pain comes on today, it is still harmless. Rinse, lather, repeat.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Aided and abetted by corrupt analysts, patients who have nothing better to do with their lives often use the psychoanalytic situation to transform insignificant childhood hurts into private shrines at which they worship unceasingly the enormity of the offenses committed against them. This solution is immensely flattering to the patients—as are all forms of unmerited self-aggrandizement; it is immensely profitable for the analysts—as are all forms pandering to people's vanity; and it is often immensely unpleasant for nearly everyone else in the patient's life.
Dr. Thomas Szasz |
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Joy_I_Am
United Kingdom
138 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2012 : 11:14:21
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If I can address the original question: the other day I was clearing out some paperwork, and found my old medical records. I could see the investigations, drugs and therapies that I'd been undergoing since 1992, though I remember other things from before then, when I wasn't keeping records, even back to backache as a teenager in the 80's. It was a shock to see how much time and money I'd spent on this stuff, how much of my mental energy... what could I have done if I hadn't been dithering about with this?!
I could see, too, that it invariably coincided with stressful periods in my life... The biggest shock was seeing symptoms I'd taken so seriously actually coming to - nothing! For example, all the right-sided back and leg pain that... just disappeared... and reappeared on the left side!
After the initial shock and regret, and feeling like a stupid hypochondriac, I simply had to laugh... what a number I'd done on myself! And if I hadn't found Dr Sarno's work, I'd still be going through it!
I know I wasn't a 'classic' hypochondriac, a 'malade imaginaire' making up illnesses for my own ends - every ailment I 'suffered' from was real and involuntary to me. This, I think, is why Dr Sarno's work is so strong - because it takes away the blame, and gives you a workable explanation, and a way to make yourself better. It confirms that we do WANT to get better, which is the first accusation levelled at the malingerer. He believes us, and empowers us.
We may always have to fight TMS, or at least be aware of it, but at least now we can. When I get a twinge now, I can turn to myself for a solution instead of waiting and wishing for a doctor to 'fix' me. I don't care how long it takes, I'm actually getting better, that's the main thing.
Yay! |
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tennis tom
USA
4746 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2012 : 16:50:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Joy_I_Am
...I could see, too, that it invariably coincided with stressful periods in my life...
... And if I hadn't found Dr Sarno's work, I'd still be going through it!
... This, I think, is why Dr Sarno's work is so strong - because it takes away the blame, and gives you a workable explanation, and a way to make yourself better. It confirms that we do WANT to get better, which is the first accusation levelled at the malingerer.
...We may always have to fight TMS, or at least be aware of it, but at least now we can.
...When I get a twinge now, I can turn to myself for a solution instead of waiting and wishing for a doctor to 'fix' me. I don't care how long it takes, I'm actually getting better, that's the main thing.
Yay!
YES! YES! YES! |
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Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2012 : 03:12:20
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Cnotes, I first read Sarno and posted here about 1995, and I am not out of the wood yet as regards TMS but I now believe I know what caused it (in me that is not the rest of the human population). And now I think I know what caused it I am trying, with some success, to fix it. I did fix my 20 year niggling backache when I first read Sarno but my insomnia problem, which I am only now getting to grips with, wasn't helped.
The problem is suppressing emotions. Having been brought up 'not to make a fuss' and 'not to make things worse', in a dysfunctional family, by the time I was late teens I had that off to perfection and because this behaviour was encouraged by the adults around me I believed I was a well-adjusted, 'strong', capable upright member of society. When in fact I was a sad, mixed up individual unable to show emotion.
This also produced goodist tendencies, where I did my best to be nice, friendly and helpful. In the process suppressing my true feelings of anger that my niceness wasn't appreciated by others, and that I wasn't a more popular and admired individual.
Anyway, the upshot was TMS to distract me from the unacceptable (but unconcious) anger I felt and this manifested itself with backache and insomnia.
You need to look at your own suppressed emotions/anger - often about those most dear to you (as you deal with them most) or at work, disappointments in your life that you may bear a grudge about and, once you have located the emotion, realise that that is causing the pain and whether you can do something about it. Things in the past you can't change but you can be honest about situations and think them through, accept failing in your parents or friends, and if changes can be made eg an honest chat with your boss about some niggling issue carry them out.
I am posting this to show that in my case some TMS probs were fixed instantly but other take more time and that getting to be aware of and honest about your true feelings about things is important and can take time. |
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Scottydog
United Kingdom
330 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2012 : 03:16:10
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That should read 'failings in your parents and friends'
Anne |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2012 : 10:43:04
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quote:
Originally posted by andy64tms
Dave comment…
“Recovery is not about becoming pain free, which IMO is an unrealistic goal. It is about understanding why you get these symptoms, and not allowing them to control you.”
Dave, can you please explain this in more detail...
Keep in mind, my posts are only expressing my opinion and interpretation of TMS. I believe each person has a unique journey. What works for me will not work for everyone.
Personally, I believe you should not be thinking about the pain at all. You should not be monitoring it or trying to control it. The pain is just there, and if you become aware of it, accept that it is benign and caused by emotions. Try to figure out what might be bothering you. Turn your attention away from the pain.
This is a habit that needs to be developed over time. If one has a goal to be "pain free" then to me this means he will, in some way, assess the level of pain to gauge his progress. I believe this contradicts the re-conditioning that you are trying to accomplish.
Therefore, I do not consider the goal to be "pain free" but to get to a point where the pain just doesn't matter. Over time, it will fade on its own.
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Sarnotic-nerve
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2012 : 12:37:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave
Therefore, I do not consider the goal to be "pain free" but to get to a point where the pain just doesn't matter. Over time, it will fade on its own.
Personally, I opted for the pain free option. It was the only goal I set out to accomplish.
______________
The pain is real! The cause...well, that's complicated. ;) |
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andy64tms
USA
589 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2012 : 16:44:27
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Thank you Dave for taking time to explain your comment in greater depth.
I was reading your comment in the light of a new beginner Colin (cnotes11 3/31/2012) reading it, and I think he may have perhaps left the forum, I hope not. I also did not used this method with my recovery in 2000.
I understand that we should not give credence to the pain, and I see that by monitoring it we are perhaps allowing it to become our main focus, I see your point. So I’ve come up with a saying to help me remember this point. “Forget about your pain, so that it will forget about you.”
I try to think back to 2000 and my light bulb moment, when I first jogged through my sciatica pain, and got relief the next day. I think that was the time my pain lost its reason for being there. I knew then it was what Dr. Sarno described as benign and false. Possibly after this time my pain itself didn’t matter to me. I remember being very interested in repairing my roof tiles at the time and very keen to get on with it, and I was extremely elated after 20 years or so of back pain. I was also very relieved to be away from my nasty job that I had walked out of. I realize now I was very lucky to have had such a quick fix.
My journey was as you say unique, and I am becoming very aware there are major differences with my recovery compared to what some people are going through here. I think this deserves a separate post. I think I will title it “How TMS Recovery worked for me, did I do anything wrong or unusual?” Or something like this. I need to become a deep thinking TMSer.
Thank you again
Andy
Past TMS Experience in 2000, with success.
Now on Day 11 Wiki Edu.
Charlie horse on neck for 20 years. (to be evicted soon.)
Books: Healing Back Pain
& Unlearn your Pain |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2012 : 09:03:49
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quote:
Originally posted by andy64tms
“Forget about your pain, so that it will forget about you.”
I like it!
Another reason that I believe one should not strive to be "pain free" is that at some point in one's life, it is likely that psychogenic symptoms will return. As much as we try to break the habit, if we have a TMS-prone personality, then the gremlin still lives inside us. Like a smoker who quit years ago, but craves a cigarette during stressful times; or someone who lost 100 lbs. but goes on an eating binge during a painful time; or an alcoholic who goes years without a drink but is still prone to fall off the wagon when life's pressures hit hard.
If one does become "pain free" and the pain returns at some point, they may become very frustrated, and that could hinder recovery from those symptoms.
I prefer to accept that from time to time I will have psychogenic symptoms; it is a part of me. Over time these episodes are fewer and far between and of lower intensity, but they may still come. I will just treat it as a benign signal that there may be something going on in my life that is affecting me on a deeper emotional level than I realize. Then I will try to figure out what that might be.
Acceptance is a powerful tool. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2012 : 08:18:35
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| Great comments, Dave (as always)! |
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Length of TMS in one's Life?
