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forestfortrees
393 Posts |
 Posted - 05/14/2011 : 13:06:07
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I wanted to let everyone know that the tms wiki recently completed an interview with TMS/PPD doctor Howard Schubiner, author of the book Unlearn Your Pain . The interview consists of four sections including general questions about Dr. Schubiner's career, general questions on PPD, information on Dr. Schubiner's PPD research, and questions regarding TMS/PPD treatment and therapy. The interview is very informative, and is located at http://tmswiki.wetpaint.com/page/Interview+with+Howard+Schubiner%2C+MD . I should note that the interview was written primarily for practitioners, therefore some of Dr. Schubiner's responses may be slightly different if the audience was primarily us TMSers, and this should not be considered medical advice. Just something to keep in mind.
Forest
My favorite TMS Wiki pages: How do I journal?, Affirmations, Sarno on 20/20, Find a TMS Doc. |
Edited by - forestfortrees on 05/14/2011 13:29:38 |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2011 : 19:34:45
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Interesting interview. Especially interesting that Schubiner doesn't buy the O2 deprivation theory. See below:
I have not found evidence for the oxygen deprivation theory. There is one study which supports that in fibromyalgia patients, but that hasn’t been confirmed. In addition, oxygen deprivation would theoretically occur on a micro-level caused by vaso-constriction. Stress doesn’t always produce vaso-constriction, for example, having one’s face turn red with embarrassment is due to vaso-dilation. Oxygen deprivation is purported to explain musculo-skeletal pain, but if that’s the cause of PPD, one would have to find different explanations for fatigue, tinnitus, diarrhea, urinary frequency, anxiety, tachycardia, and other symptoms that I see as being all part of the varied manifestations of PPD. Furthermore, when one invokes oxygen deprivation, people often get the idea that they need to breathe more deeply or somehow increase their oxygen levels and neither of these is true from my point of view.
Instead, he looks at it this way (substitute TMS for PPD):
I think of PPD as being caused by learned nerve pathways. This is similar to the nerve pathways we learned in order to ride a bicycle, speak a language, or throw a ball. These pathways can learn pain or any other PPD manifestation. They can be initiated by an injury or can be induced simply by emotional reactions. The manifestations can be present one minute and move or disappear in the next minute because the nerve pathways can be activated or deactivated by the brain very quickly, as described in one of the earlier questions.
What do you think?
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Javizy
United Kingdom
76 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2011 : 02:54:43
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quote:
I think of PPD as being caused by learned nerve pathways. This is similar to the nerve pathways we learned in order to ride a bicycle, speak a language, or throw a ball. These pathways can learn pain or any other PPD manifestation. They can be initiated by an injury or can be induced simply by emotional reactions. The manifestations can be present one minute and move or disappear in the next minute because the nerve pathways can be activated or deactivated by the brain very quickly, as described in one of the earlier questions.
It sounds like he's describing what Hanna refers to as sensory-motor amnesia. Essentially, the brain forgets how to turn off a muscle properly, which leads to the muscle becoming chronically overused and painful. Depending on the particular muscle, additional symptoms may be experienced as well, such as the abdominal muscle squeezing the bladder. The good news is that the bogus sensory-motor information can be unlearned relatively easily.
Problems with the musculature explain a hell of a lot about almost all kinds of pain, but for some reason the lost art of palpitation has been replaced with x-rays and scans that don't reveal the problems at all. I guess this is where Sarno's background as a physician lets him down. |
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Erata
63 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2011 : 07:36:48
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This makes a lot of sense to me because I've often wondered how oxygen deprivation can cause such a myriad of diverse symptoms.
But, perhaps these concepts aren't mutually exclusive in that for some people the manifestations are generated primarily through oxygen deprivation, for others through learned nerve pathways, and for others a combination, in varying degrees, of both. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2011 : 12:56:29
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Thanks for posting this stuff forest,,
Oxygen deprivation always sounded like a reach to me. (Also distraction). But I don't think Sarno is all that sure of himself. As I recall, he's offering it as a possible explanation, though about that I could be wrong.
I like the learned pathways idea, although it might be only part of the story. I "came down" with my fatigue/food allergy/hypoglycemia syndrome overnight...If my pathways learned all that in 8 hours, they're pretty smart fellas...:>)
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2011 : 18:52:29
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| I hadn't heard of the "sensory-motor amnesia" theory, Javizy, but it certainly sounds plausible too. Actually, you could combine both ideas; Schubiner's "learned pathways" idea and the s-m motor idea to say, stress or trauma turns it on, and the more often this happens, the more that nerve pathway is strengthened (neuroplasticity). Once chronically on, the s-m amnesia thing might kick in to keep it on like a stuck switch. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2011 : 07:27:11
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It is not necessary to know for certain the mechanism by which TMS works to be "cured". It is necessary only to understand the theory.
Dr. Sarno says the functioning of the mind is so intricate, complex and convoluted, that it may never be understood. Over thinking TMS may become a distraction in itself.
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
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Edited by - tennis tom on 05/24/2011 08:51:18 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2011 : 16:04:42
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Everything in the world could be a distraction. Distraction might be a distraction.
At a certain point, it's just not useful. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
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Interview with Dr. Howard Schubiner
