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healingback
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
 Posted - 03/31/2011 : 11:55:50
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Today I had a confrontation with one of my friends. .. someone who I have explained the tms theory to, who I thought understood to a certain degree. .. today when she asked why I never come out in the evenings anymore... I suffer with fatigue so strong at the moment that I can barely remain awake past 7pm and if I do im in a very hazy state.
I explained to her how tired I've been and how anxious I get when going to new places... and how the pain can get worse. .. she told me I was making excuses and that I needed to just push through it, she's made me feel like a failure and yet 6months I couldnt walk for more than 10mins... now I can walk through the pain. .. I feel I have come along way, but I have Lost alot of friends along the way... and I fear she maybe next. . Any thoughts?
This to shall pass.... |
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susan828
USA
291 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 12:30:32
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What your friend doesn't understand is why would you make excuses? Doesn't she understand that you would love to be able to go out? You might ask her this. Does she think you choose to be under the weather? Ask her straight out "What would I have to gain by making excuses...what would be the purpose?" and see what she says.
Healingback...YOU know that she is not making sense. She is just frustrated because she wants to hang out with you and you can't keep up with her pace. It's her frustration talking so please don't personalize it. You have to do what's good for you and I speak for myself here too. We are the only ones that know what we're capable of handling at any given moment. You sound like you have come a long way. NOBODY can make you feel like a failure. If you fear she may be the next friend you lose...do you really call that a "friend"? The best thing for you to do is filter out *by YOUR choice, not theirs) people who don't know you as you are and accept you just as you are.
It's one thing for a friend to try to help you and encourage you, someone who may have a lot of insight and sees your potential. It's another to pressure you and tell you you're making excuses. Rather than looking at this as losing a lot of friends along the way, which you said, think of it as eliminating people in your life who just didn't have the warmth and understanding and acceptance of you as you are. That's a gain..not a loss.
See wher it goes with this friend...I know that I have tired out one particular friend. She never verbalized that but she stopped calling as often and so I did too..I gave her a rest from having to hear my frequent complaints and fears. Your friend might just need a break. try to level with her, try to have an honest talk and again, ask her what I said in the first paragraph. And remember...people with TMS (and anxiety disorder) are some of the most sensitive people on this planet. This is not just my observation but that of the experts who have worked with a lot of patients. Your friend apparently isn't as understanding, much of the world isn't. Please post how this relationship unfolds.
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susan828
USA
291 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 12:33:04
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Here is the quote I was looking for (regarding your comment about your friend making you feel like a failure:
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."
Eleanor Roosevelt. |
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healingback
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 13:11:05
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Hi susan, god your reply almost bought me to tears. I have said to this friend many times that I would love to be able to go out and live a normal life but that isn't the situation at the moment, when she said I was making excuses I said its something I'm dealing with everyday and I'm telling you the reality of the situation, I'm not directly choosing to not go out for fear of being in pain, I would love to go out and not have to worry about my back lasting out... her words were 'you should hear yourself, your making excuses , your not pushing past the pain, your letting it control you'... since doing this work I'm back to working part time, I'm back to the gym, I make surei do one social evening a week, I'm a day person, I've never been a drinker, I like going for walks and coming home and having a relaxing bath with a good book, that's who I am... and that's who I am without the tms pain/fear.... I told her I'm doing the best that I can for now... and yet I'm left feeling like I'm weak, I feel like I've come a hell of a long way and yet because its not happening quick enough for her it seems that's the issue. Sometimes I feel like I'm living in my own bubble and when situations like this come up I wander if I really am in the wrong , I feel judged and think if I'm being told I'm not trying enough, and I'm already holding on by the tips of my fingers then what more can I do.
This to shall pass.... |
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susan828
USA
291 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 13:36:53
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I have two friends whose children tell them they're hypochondriacs. When it comes from a family member, it can really hurt. It hurts when the people we think really know us say something to show total lack of understanding, empathy and compassion .In your case, it's a friend and you're not stuck with her for life. The key word in your post is "judged". I hate when people say things like "Pick yourself up by your bootstraps" and other cliches. If it were that easy, we'd do it. We're not magic genies and can't wish away TMS anymore than someone can change a depression in a wink.
When you say you wonder if you are really "in the wrong"..what you and I are experiencing is not wrong or right, it just is the way we learned to cope. What may be "wrong" or should I say "can be improved, re-thought, changed" is the methods we use the get over this condition. Forget about your friend's opinion for a minute (because that's all it is, and should not have the power to cause you distress)...is there anything that you feel you can do differently? Have you read the books that people suggest on this board? Have any of them helped? Since you say that you have seen an improvement, what has worked for you so far? |
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Back2-It
USA
438 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 14:29:40
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This is the hardest part of all this. I've lost friends and a mate.
When this all came on for me I had just reunited with my girlfriend after five years of being apart; we were going to get married; then I woke up one morning a month later with a heavy feeling on my side which started a downward journey.
She couldn't take it. Her words: I used to be the strong one. Also, that she can't take any more depressing things in her life.
I too have made a lot of progress, but I have lingering muscle stiffness issues that make acting exactly like I did prior kind of hard.
Others have said that I should date again, but I have lost so much confidence, and I am afraid to become distracted by the pain and not pay attention to my date.
Yet... I'm going to try it tonight, because I met someone so nice.
I feel for you all. It's like the neverending nightmare. |
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Goodney
USA
76 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 16:00:53
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Back2-It:
So glad to hear you are getting back into the game. I know how TMS can affect your confidence - I've been there. Sometimes it seems that I've never needed to be stronger while at the same time I've never felt weaker. And TMS certainly can affect your confidence even more when it comes to the opposite sex. I'll bet you have a good time on your date. I've found that keeping my focus on the other person helps a lot. Good luck, and let us know how it goes. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 17:32:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Back2-It
...we were going to get married; then I woke up one morning a month later with a heavy feeling on my side which started a downward journey.
She couldn't take it. Her words: I used to be the strong one. Also, that she can't take any more depressing things in her life.
Good you found out about her before you got married. What happened to that "...in sickness and in health thing?" Maybe your TMS was trying to protect you from making a big mistake.
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6415
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
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"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
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Edited by - tennis tom on 03/31/2011 17:35:43 |
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susan828
USA
291 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 17:47:30
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You got that right, Tom. Blessing to find out early. I had an ex who once said "You sound like an old lady on a park bench" when I was doubled over in pain. Lovely, right?
We got as far as planning our wedding down to the clergymen. Thank goodness I saw the light. NOT nice, he would have been a monster to live with. Incidentally, the pain turned out to be something that was real and I eventually had surgery. The only thing someone should say when their friend/mate is in distress is "how can I help?". Anything less than that is someone we should not be with. So, Back2-it, she was no loss, what she said was mean and emasculating, attacking your strength as a man and the role you were supposed to serve to her. She sounds like she had zero compassion and she did you a big favor by splitting. |
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Darko
Australia
387 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2011 : 18:23:53
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Hi HB,
Interesting situation you have there......I also read the responses and some great tips in there. Could I offer you a different perspective? I feel it's important that we help each other grow so I'll try and look at this from a different perspective and see if that can help you.
I used to live with a girl who also has chronic fatigue.......she made her life about the fatigue. She stopped going out at night, became intense about her diet and generally has less and less integrity with people and used her fatigue as the excuse. ( I'm NOT saying this is you in anyway....this is simply an example ) She even, didn't turn up at one of her friends wedding....
People simply started seeing her less, 1- because she didn't put in the effort...she had her reasons and 2 - She was all about the fatigue.
People are selfish and most are impatient....this you could say is the truth for the majority of the population.....especially as most of them don't do any real "growing"
If we know this about people then it easy to see why people got frustrated with my friends behavior. Right or wrong, it doesn't matter....it just IS WHAT IT IS.
If you blame your friends for not understanding, or being impatient or whatever and they blame you for not going out at night or whatever......what do you think the end result will be????? Yeah, you'll have no friends.
Would it serve you better to just accept that your friends will be this way simply because they don't understand. We understand you because we walk the same path.....most other people don't....so don't EXPECT too much from them.
Now here's the ugly part.....could you look at how you're responsible? It's easy to blame your friends, ( and I'm not suggesting you are, this is just a conversation ) but blame NEVER gets you anywhere.....taking responsibility and more importantly taking ACTION does get you somewhere. Are you focusing far too much on the fatigue? Are you taking any real action? Maybe your friends can see that you're always talking and not doing....and that's their frustration......maybe you're just accepting that you have fatigue and now I can't do this and that because I have "fatigue"
This is a 'STORY' of the mind which could be consuming you, are you going to allow this crap to beat you?
If you allow it TMS will close in on your life and completely take it over.....and it's just harder to crawl out of the TMS pit the deeper you're in it.
I really get that it's very difficult for you at the moment HB, but what are you telling yourself in the mind everyday? Don't wait for the fatigue to go before you start living.....because I can tell you that you'll be waiting for a loooong time.
I waited for my back pain to leave before I went on my path to success, then I realized that TMS became my excuse to not face my fears
quote:
I explained to her how tired I've been and how anxious I get when going to new places... and how the pain can get worse
could you be doing the same :-)
hope this helps
D
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healingback
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2011 : 01:47:46
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Hi everyone thanks for your responses. Going back to susans post, the improvement I've had with the back pain is to challenge it, to push past it when its playing up, to jounel but I'm in the place where I journal everyday as I feel this would just keep me stuck on the negatives. The fatigue is fairly new its been on and off for a few months and its probably harder to push through the tiredness than it is the back pain, for me at least. I've read all of sarnos books, I've tms cd's, a workbook... but I feel I'm so busy not focusing on the pain or the fatigue that everything else goes out the window, its taken a lot for me to get back to work, to be making even the effort to go to the gym, walking my dog etc... and by the evenings I am shattered.
Hi darko, I get what your saying and I could agree somewhat, I know that I'm partly waiting for the pain and fatique to go before I really start living life again, my all or nothing personality comes into play here, where if I'm going to go out and be in paain or not enjoy the evening because of the tiredness then id rather not bother, that may sound silly but its deeply ingrained.
I don't want to live my life around the fatigue, which is why I am trying to go out at least once a week in the evenings... I would like to go out more, but right now I don't know how to push past it, the friend in question if I went out in the evening with her and after an hour felt it was to much, she would make me feel incredibly guilty, it'd happened before years ago and she turned and said I wouldn't of bothered to make the effort if I knew we'd of been out an hour. To be fair its not a situation that I feel I can put myself in because I don't feel strong enough to cope with anyone making me feel ****ty.
I unfortuanetly don't do well with someone telling me I'm trying hard enough I just walk away because I don't feel I have much to offer friends at this time perhaps.
This friend has I feel changed, she has a new boyfriend at suddenly at the age of 32 she's decided to start doing drugs, and hanging round with his friends who I believe are the wrong crowd. We were always diffrent but I feel we've just stepped in completely different directions.
So with the fatigued do I push through it and go out with my boyfriend in the evenings , he's the only person I feel comfortable to go out with thout being judged....any tips?
This to shall pass.... |
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Back2-It
USA
438 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2011 : 06:49:14
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quote:
Originally posted by healingback
Hi darko, I get what your saying and I could agree somewhat, I know that I'm partly waiting for the pain and fatique to go before I really start living life again, my all or nothing personality comes into play here, where if I'm going to go out and be in paain or not enjoy the evening because of the tiredness then id rather not bother, that may sound silly but its deeply ingrained.
Deeply ingrained -- how true. So are my feelings of discomfort and pain when I do anything: walking, standing, sitting. It's always there. I too have an all or nothing personality when it comes to my body. I have always wanted it all better right away --- no matter what it was. I know now this was due to anxiety.
I really feel for you HB. How can you push through when you just don't feel like it? This happens to me all the time, though I have to push through work and other obligations because I have no choice if I want to keep eating. I think like the back issue for you you will resume living through the fatigue and reprogram your thinking, whether you are conscious of it or not. Good luck and peace of mind to you.
I sometimes wonder for some of us whether our symptoms are not caused by a deep loneliness, even if we have a mate. So many whom I've spoken have this deep fear of being alone. Yeah, you can have the friends and work buddies, but when you go home at the end of the day and close the door, you're back in that prison of the mind, until the next day's sunshine.
So many institutions that our parents/grandparents had -- church, community, family-- are quaint relics. There's no tribe; there's only me, myself and I. Three people, frankly, that need to get out more.  , which is what I'm FORCING myself to do.
Tom, you're probably right. It's a good thing I found out before walking down any aisle. However, this was someone I was with for 16 years, then another 1.5 of TMS, so it's doubly crushing when you find out the "one" for you is only for you when you're 100%. Such is life.
Susan -- yeah, I never looked at it as emasculating, but I think you have a point. It certainly was mean. Meaner still, was that our "relationship" during the 1.5 years of this consisted of us going out for dinner and drinks. Never was I invited over to spend time and never did she come over here just to spend time. The one thing I wanted was simply company, but that was held out. I was lonelier in the relationship than out.
Goodney -- the date went well. I was just looking to go out and have a good time, and am happy to report that I felt more like my old self than before. (Unsure of what she thought, but I've grown pretty mellow over any thoughts of that matter). The great philosopher, Doris Day, said it: "Que sera, sera".
Sorry to drone on, but the personal responses to my posts were nice. Thanks. |
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susan828
USA
291 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2011 : 08:25:33
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| Healingback, everything you say about your friend makes me feel that she is just not for you. To say she wouldn't have bothered to go out if she knew it would be a shirt time...that's just cruel. She has no sensitivity, no compassion and now she's using drugs. It doesn't matter how far back you go with her, break it off. This is no different than "love" relationships...when a friend is toxic, it's time to break up. You don't need someone in your life who is making you feel like #@%$. But like I said, no one can make you feel like anything...you have to love and respect yourself enough to say bye bye to people like this. To me, you sound like a dynamite person deserving of caring, nice friends. |
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healingback
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2011 : 08:43:55
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Hi susan, I think your probably right but I feel like I've already lost a couple of other friends, I say say friends lightly... and part of me feel like if I lose her I'm kind of by myself, apart from my boyfriend who a star!
Today just to top it off, I work as a rehab coach to people with multiple scelorosis, this one guy is stuck in a lot, and he knows the past year of my life and that I suffer with fatique, and today was a stretch to far when he told me did I do anything other than sleep)! He's just frustrated with his own situation but this has been going on for a few months now, constant put me downs etc... I'm on here looking for another job, but then its that cycle of what job can I keep down. Loneliness is not the word
This to shall pass.... |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2011 : 12:51:19
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Have you seen a doctor for the possibility of chronic fatigue? I do not believe the kind of tiredness you're talking about...if I'm understanding you correctly.. is likely to be TMS. I don't believe "chronic fatigue" is TMS either. Some on this forum disagree. Just my opinion naturally.
If chronic fatigue ( meaning the syndrome about which there's still much controversy) ultimately applies to you, and of course I can't know that, there are no good short term options unfortunately. But attempting to push through it generally makes it temporarily worse. |
Edited by - art on 04/01/2011 12:52:34 |
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healingback
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2011 : 13:31:53
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Hi art, I have seen the doctor and she just wanted to put me on anti depressants which I don't believe are the answer. My fatigue is on and off and I have spoken to others who have cured themselves of it through sarno.
This to shall pass.... |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2011 : 15:47:49
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I'll be interested in how you do going forward because the subject of extreme fatigue interests me. Sarno claims it's a TMS equivalent I believe, but then I read that he also believes that narcotics withdrawal syndrome is TMS. As much as I respect the guy, I think the latter claim (if true) is laughable..
Antidepressants are the usual physician response to anything they don't understand. Unless you're actually depressed, you're right to avoid them in my opinion. |
Edited by - art on 04/01/2011 15:52:11 |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2011 : 07:15:59
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quote:
Originally posted by art
I'll be interested in how you do going forward because the subject of extreme fatigue interests me. Sarno claims it's a TMS equivalent I believe, but then I read that he also believes that narcotics withdrawal syndrome is TMS. As much as I respect the guy, I think the latter claim (if true) is laughable..
Antidepressants are the usual physician response to anything they don't understand. Unless you're actually depressed, you're right to avoid them in my opinion.
Withdrawal symptoms from narcotics, smoking, coffee could be real and could be mindbody invoked. I was a heavy smoker and have tried to quit many times. Each time I have a different set of symptoms and many of them are very similar to those tms symptoms. It's hard to tell which one came from the absence of nicotine, caffenine.. and which came from fear of withdrawal symptoms, boredom, lost of a beloved bad habit... I only successfully quit when I was free from tms and while I'm in a more positive period of my life. whyquit . org helped too. |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2011 : 07:19:44
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quote:
Originally posted by art
I'll be interested in how you do going forward because the subject of extreme fatigue interests me. Sarno claims it's a TMS equivalent I believe, but then I read that he also believes that narcotics withdrawal syndrome is TMS. As much as I respect the guy, I think the latter claim (if true) is laughable..
Antidepressants are the usual physician response to anything they don't understand. Unless you're actually depressed, you're right to avoid them in my opinion.
Withdrawal symptoms from narcotics, smoking, coffee could be real and could be mindbody invoked. I was a heavy smoker and have tried to quit many times. Each time I have a different set of symptoms and many of them are very similar to those tms symptoms. It's hard to tell which one came from the absence of nicotine, caffenine.. and which came from fear of withdrawal symptoms, boredom, lost of a beloved bad habit... I only successfully quit when I was free from tms and while I'm in a more positive period of my life. whyquit . org helped too. |
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Javizy
United Kingdom
76 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2011 : 08:44:02
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Anxiety leads to regularly depleted glands. When you say you feel "mentally exhausted" after a stressful day, it's because of that. You're literally drained. Take back control of your adrenal glands, and you'll probably be able to take back control of your evenings. Doesn't Weekes cover that in her books, balto?
Of course, that's just the psychological side of it. There are other potential factors such as overbreathing and inflammatory diets that can cause fatigue too, and help fuel your anxiety/depression. There are studies that have drawn links between a high intake of omega-6s and depression and mood disorders, and links between low brain oxygenation and overactivity in brain cells. It doesn't take much imagination to see how nutrition could play a part though. |
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losing friends d how i have anxiety when
