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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
 Posted - 09/21/2010 : 19:49:42
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Okay, I have been training for a tough trail marathon in CA in early October. I have been putting in more miles, more tough hilly miles, than I've done in probably 20 years. Last Thursday, I was simply crossing a street to begin an easy run when, because of approaching traffic I had to put on a 2-second moderate sprint. That's when I felt it, a sharp pain in the butt.
While concerned, I went on a did a few easy miles and then went home and took lots of ibuprofen and the next day I felt much better. The day after that it really felt normal so I went out to do a planned long run. After about 30 minutes, the soreness and stiffness began and worsened and I finally gave it up after only 8 miles. Again, piled on the ice and ibuprofen and felt okay the next day. The day after that I thought I would be prudent and take a few days off running and go for a bike ride instead. But, an hour after the bike ride it bothered me a lot more than the running had and I concluded it was from sitting on the very hard seat. This time, despite again taking the ibuprofen and ice, it has not bounced back as well.
Okay, I know the initial incident was a "real" injury. I had really overtrained with miles and hills in the weeks and months leading up to this. But because the intial injury seemed so mild in that it bounced back after a day or two, I suspect the brain may be using the believability of this injury to add on symptoms and severity that are not justified by the actual injury.
Initially, I figured it was only a gluteal micro tear and I didn't worry too much about it. It was only after the increase in sx's after the bike ride that a nurse friend said, "Well, it's probably not a gluteal muscle but more likely a "sit bone" muscle because the bike seat aggravated it. Of course, the prominent sit bone muscles are the hamstrings and anything related to "hamstring" scares me. Suddenly, I went from relatively unconcerned to seriously worried and depressed. It was not so much that I probably won't even be able to run the marathon (only 2 1/2 wks away), but the thought of being tied down by a potentially long recovery and having to start over.
Coincidentally, since becoming somewhat distraught about it, the symptoms seemed to worsen and not be as amenable to the ice and ibuprofen. Five days later, it should be at worst, the same, not worse.
I know Sarno talks about the brain using the trigger of a real symptom
to amplify that symptom or create others. Obviously this is a very effective strategy because, as in my case, it is hard to tell what is real and should be treated and what are add ons that should be treated as TMS. |
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hsb
149 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2010 : 07:57:54
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| Gee, Wrld i soooooooo now where you are coming from. you know my history with the achilles and since i went back to running, i swear the achilles pain has lessened. a few weeks ago i posted about hamstring pain as well and how scary that was. i have NOT stopped running. but i have taken up biking since i only have been running 3x a week. i swear it is the biking that is causing the hamstring pain. the hamstring has definitely gotten worse. i too know the fear that you have - not being able to run the marathon and the biggest . . . . being out of running for a long time with the hammy. i wish i knew how to advise you --- you have been helpful to me for sure with encouragement and i will try to encourage you by saying it's your brain testing you because the marathon is around the corner. the marathon is a huge huge deal and your brain wants to do anything not to let you get to the starting line because it knows how important it is for you. i hope this helps. i wish i knew what to do myself with my hammy pain. i think you will run your marathon wrld. |
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Carole
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2010 : 08:49:50
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wrldtrv,
My Husband had something similar to this a year ago just a few weeks before an ultramarathon.
His tms attack was in his lower back and although he chi runs he was only able to trot along. The second day after the really bad pain started up, he was running and I was riding along with him.
When I had to get off and walk my bike, I asked him if maybe this was tms and possibly *some* anxiety over the ultra. (it was an 8 hour in extreme heat)
After we figured it was tms he created a plan for his run-- run for so many minutes (I can't remember how many) and walk for a certain time amount.
Once he had a plan the pain went away and he had a great ultra and had a lot of fun too.
Maybe you could create a plan for your marathon, kind of like my Husband did. Run so many miles at a certain pace and so many at another??
I'll bet you'll be fine for trail run!
Check this site out http://www.tmswiki.org
Lots of good info |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2010 : 09:18:28
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Hey wrld,
Sorry to hear. My take for what it's worth is, pay attention to context. As you say, an injury given your increased training makes sense. Perhaps, given your age and rate of increase it was in hindsight, even inevitable. My approach is to continue running if an injury makes little or no sense. If it does make sense, I'll still consider ignoring, depending on things like pain level and implications for further injury...
I've been thinking in TMS terms for over 5 years now. It has, in all candor both given and taken away. My summer hammie injury, the worst injury I've had in years, I made worse by ignoring at first. I've had one or two others along those lines. By the same token, I've saved myself months and months of continued running where before I would have taken time off. I'm also much more willing to run with pain. Many injuries only require a decrease in speed and distance along with ice.
There are a few other things I think about in trying to make a decision. So for example, had I suddenly sustained an injury like yours, I'd ask myself if it's possible suggestion is involved. In other words, have I recently heard of such an injury? Is it an injury I've been worried about for any reason?
In your case, for what it's worth, given all the evidence and assuming it's not a question of suggestion or "copy-cat" syndrome, I'd consider it an actual injury and treat it as such.
AT THE SAME TIME (caps for emphasis), I'd do my utmost to avoid catastrophizing. Ok (would go the self talk), it's an injury. No big deal. Runners get injured all the time. They rest, rehab, and get back to training. This is just my time."
You're in an elite class wrld, but these things are relative. I've lost a tremendous amount of conditioning and speed due to my summer injury, and I have to remind myself that I don't in some sense "own" my conditioning. At best, it's borrowed for a while. I'm a flesh and blood human being, subject to injury, and above all mortal. Boy, if I ever doubted that before at age 59 I no longer do.
TMS or no, I've had to make substantial concessions to my advancing age. I run much more slowly these days, and many less miles. Of course, we all age at different rates, and I'm guessing you have many years of marathoning left to come.
Hope this helps in some way. I hear what you're saying about the mind amplifying and extending symptoms, and it's a good thing to keep in mind, especially if you're resting and it's getting worse anyway. That does sound suspicious. |
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caligirl
22 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2010 : 10:05:48
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wrldtrv,
I can really relate to your post. I have been doing yoga two to three times a week and I get this pain in my left hip that radiates to my buttock. I have tried to ignore it and suffered many a night trying to think of any anger associated with it. Mine too goes away with ibuprofen, and then I forget about it and it disappears.
It had gone away entirely for a month, and then I noticed it returning and tried to figure out what could be going on. I came up with the fact that doubt started creeping into my mind again. I started thinking, well what if it is some horrible disease like cancer that I am ignoring? I was diagnosed with melanoma in 2001, and have not had a recurrence, but keep thinking it is going to crop up somewhere where else.
I conferred with a TMS doctor a while back and he said that it is the doubt that has to be removed from the thoughts. Very difficult I know, since some of us have been conditioned to believe we have been poisoned by by toxins.
I think Art had some good advice on just accepting it. Just as Claire Weekes says..."Accept, float past it, and let time pass." It's that OMG snyndrome that is so hard to get past ("what if" and "maybe").
Affirmations can also help temendously. Louise Hay correlates buttock pain to Power and the Loss of Power. The affirmation is "I use my power wisely. I am strong. I am safe. All is well."
Best of Luck to you  |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2010 : 20:34:34
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Thanks HSB, Caligirl, Carole, and Art for your comments and advice. Trying not to go into stress overload due to injury and forced leisure is a challenge, Caligirl, so thanks for the reminder of Claire Weekes, who I have read several times.
This particular injury seems to be real, but I certainly have enough conscious stress--never mind unconscious factors--to create symptoms so I don't take anything for granted.
My butt feels a lot better today and I went to the gym to do some mild stretching and strengthening. By the way, those foam rollers work wonders for trigger point work. I use them instead of stretching most of the time.
I'll keep doing what I'm doing; no running, gym work, ice, and see what happens. Who knows, maybe I'll make it to the starting line of the marathon. I don't mind running it slowly as long as I don't aggravate the problem. The fact of all the hills scares me.
I have a hilly 10-mile race exactly a week before and that will probably be the test of whether I do the marathon or not. Maybe as I get older I'll move up to ultras as they are actually easier on your body. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2010 : 07:50:46
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Sounds good wrld. By the way, don't you just *hate* it when you virtuously decide to be "smart" and do some cross-training and it turns out it makes things even worse?
Drives me insane. |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2010 : 19:52:52
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| I sure do, Art. What also drives me crazy is what happened today. I went to the gym and got a little too aggressive with the amount of weight I used on the hip rotator machine and I'm paying for it now! Today's setback makes it fairly clear I won't be doing this marathon. I hate that too; planning for it, training for it, looking forward to it and something upsetting my plans at the last moment. Which also makes it pretty clear that I have the kind of personality that needs to feel in control of my environment at all times in order to feel secure. Things that don't work out according to plan border on the traumatic for me. |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2010 : 02:24:48
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I'm in a lot more "fibro" pain since I've been going to the gym less.
I had a long-term deal with a trainer for 3 sessions a week of mostly weight work, and now can only pay for one, and I really notice the difference. Don't have the energy or motivation to do weights myself.
It's always a bit edgy for me, because if I OVERdo it I also get into more pain. But now I'm definitely UNDERdoing it and need to engage my body more.
It's also a very good emotional strategy for me to have a lot of movement on a structured, regular basis. I grew up in an intellectual family in which we basically laughed at guys who would run (or mostly "race-walk" which is pretty funny!) past our window. It's taken me decades to really get into any kind of exercise and I'm naturally skinny so I don't have that motivation.
I can imagine how the whole running thing can interact with TMS.
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2010 : 07:25:57
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Vitamin "D" is the only supplement I still take, Wavy. It's got all kinds of health implications they're beginning to find.
Here's hoping it's a positive development for you.
As to the working out, if you feel better with that, maybe there are other things you can try in the absence of a trainer. Can you find a buddy to work out with? That's usually a good way to make the bitter 'ol medicine go down. :-) |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 11/16/2010 : 20:09:35
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I haven't been here for a couple of months and a tough couple of months it has been.
First, the hip pain I wrote about got worse before it got better and it's still not gone. I skipped the marathon I was training for; in fact, I did almost no running for 1 1/2 months, but did get to the gym often doing other things. Every week or so, I would aggravate the hip by trying to stretch or strengthen it and I would backtrack. The only physical modality that seemed to help was deep tissue massage and I've had a few sessions of that.
Okay, now I seem to be getting much better and have been doing several runs of several miles on the treadmill. Coincidentally, as the hip improves, I seem to have come down with other symptoms: last week, an old shoulder injury flared up after a wts workout and it hasn't settled down yet. Then, just today, an old plantar fascitis flared up after 2 1/2 yrs. What these two symptoms (shoulder and foot) have in common, is that when they originally occurred yrs ago, they were long-lasting and traumatic and took over my life during their durations. The past week, and particularly today, with the foot thing again, the old dread came up.
Of course, symptom substitution comes up. I really seem to NEED a symptom of some kind ALWAYS! I can't remember a period of more than a few days in the past 10 years without symptoms of some kind. And I'm about the healthiest and fittest person you can imagine. Nobody would believe that a guy that looks so healthy and fit could be plagued with such an ongoing variety of aches and pains, with the more effective themes replayed again and again. |
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hsb
149 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2010 : 11:20:31
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hi wrld, hi art-
been lurking for awhile. wrld-sorry about your marathon. sounds like yo're back running which is a good thing. my story -- my achilles basically cleared up (for the most part). back in july i said "screw it" and i started to run. the only thing i did was eccentric exercises and ran through it all. it slowly got better and i would say it is about 95% and that's good enough for me. been running 3x a week since then, added some mileage BUT i decided to try some cycling. i am not a very good cyclist 0one of the rare runners who cannot seem to transition into cycling. to make a long story shorter - i signed up for computrainer classes and spinning classes. these are very very tough workouts. lo and behold about 2 weeks ago, my ITB and hip and quads started screaming. i know for a fact that i am not using the right muscles biking - i don't know the correct pedal stroke and i bet that i have been overloading my ITB with the incorrect mashing with my quads. sooooo my hip is killing me. i do know that i went gung ho into the biking, several spin classes and the computrainer classes are very very hard core. i haven't taken any run days off but this morning's run really really hurt. i remember wrld saying there hasn't been many moments when something or other wasn't bothering him. just a month ago i said to myself - you know HSB, nothing hurts. wow. now i guess i am back to my normal state of pain, tms and anxiety. big time bummer. this too shall pass but i'm back to trying to figure out whether to run, not run, bike, not bike. this sucker hurts!!!!!!
nice to see you all again |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2010 : 10:55:27
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| That's great, Hsb, on being rid of the achilles problem. I know that was a major issue for you. As for your current IT band and quads pain, well, I really wouldn't be concerned at all. You say you jumped full force into this new activity, so it is completely natural that you would have soreness. You really need to patiently work your way into new sports, espec as you get older. I have been learning that lesson. The problem is, you feel so good it is hard to hold back. Later, you pay the price. Good luck. |
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hsb
149 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2010 : 11:45:20
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i her you wrld. but . . . now that i have the ITB, hip, quad thing ... what happens. is this real or not????? i tried running and ouch. i did bike last night. every time i get up from a chair the hip hurts alot. i think i might take a week off and see if that makes a difference. i did go full bore into this biking thing. i mean heavy duty intensity. i thought the pain was soreness from a new activity, but this ain't just soreness.
as TMSrs' though - we get the soreness from the new activity and our minds create havoc -- i am alrady thinking of how good it felt to be running and damn, i lose it again!! how long this time will i be out. rampant crappy thoughts!!! blah. |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2010 : 19:27:47
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Hsb, I don't want psychoanalyze you, but it seems that you have many of the same psychological tendencies as I. Specifically, acute sensitivity to bodily symptoms, magnified anxiety, over-analysis of the problem in a relentless search for THE ANSWER...
Hey, I could be full of crap, but that's my take. If I'm wrong, ignore what I said.
After dealing with the hip injury on my own for the past two plus months and having a good deal of success in the past few weeks, I have finally decided I will add in some PT. I really wanted to do this on my own, but improvement is taking too long for me. I'm tired of it getting better for a few days, and because I feel good, maybe I over do it and am back where I started. This see-saw reaction has happened many times and though the general trend is upwards, I'm impatient! |
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hsb
149 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2010 : 07:05:10
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good luck with the PT wrld. i do concur with your assessment of my anxiety, etc. mostly it's about how long this time will i be out of running, now with the hip.
i am not a big proponent of PT. mostly i just think it's the same protocol for everything. plus for all the millions of times i've been in PT, i hate it when i don't get better and the PT gets frustrated and doesn't understand why i am not getting better and they are befuddled. i just never seem to ever have success in PT working to "cure my injuries".
it seems it's always one injury after another with me and just when i get back up to 'speed' with running, something else crops up. the hip thing definitely is not from running though - it's my going gangbusters into cycling. but it hurts and i have to figure out what to do next. and of course i am overthinking, obsessing and anxious. should i run, not run, treat, not treat. i think you guys know the drill. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2010 : 19:38:34
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Hey guys,
HSB, for what it's worth, you do seem a little reckless at times. You spent what is it, well over a year with the achilles thing, a symptom that by reason of its longevity and similarity to other numerous faux injuries, seemed very likely TMS...So no sooner do you find the courage and fortitude to finally run through that, then you throw yourself into the cycling in a way that's almost guaranteed to cause problems at our age and with our TMS propensities. Given your anxiety levels around injuries, and given your history, wouldn't it make better sense to ease into something new? I mean, I understand the temptation and all, but I've got to say I'd be astonished if you didn't come up with a whole new set of problems with your background..
My armchair, monday morning, totally non-professional opinion is on some level you knew going in you'd probably wind up "injured." I mean, given your well documented patterns, how could you not?
Hope this doesn't offend you in any way. But maybe asking yourself if you really want to be inured on some level might be helpful.
wrld, glad you're coming out of the hip doldrums. My experience with repeat injuries is that they're TMS for the most part. It's normal to feel aches and pains in previously injured (or not injured ::) spots, but I'd be very surprised if that pf is anything to be concerned with. Your body after all this time is so adapted to the stresses of running you probably really have to go some to get an actual injury... |
Edited by - art on 11/20/2010 19:51:21 |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2010 : 20:09:55
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Art, I had totally forgotten about the pf I mentioned just the other day. The reason? I don't think it was pf at all in that it seemed to be more on the outside of the foot. Anyway, it lasted exactly 36 hours. Gone completely.
Hsb, I agree with Art about your jumping so aggressively into a new sport, espec knowing your history. That's why I said it was nothing complicated, nothing to be too concerned about; just the mundane overdoing it. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2010 : 10:03:30
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quote:
Originally posted by hsb
...it seems it's always one injury after another with me...
Unfortunately it seems you never really accepted that the TMS diagnosis applies to you, or fully committed to treatment. While this may contradict how you feel on the surface, it is pretty clear that your mind is unable to let go of treating your symptoms as physical injuries or ailments. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2010 : 14:14:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave
quote:
Originally posted by hsb
...it seems it's always one injury after another with me...
Unfortunately it seems you never really accepted that the TMS diagnosis applies to you, or fully committed to treatment. While this may contradict how you feel on the surface, it is pretty clear that your mind is unable to let go of treating your symptoms as physical injuries or ailments.
I agree with this assessment. HS, not to gang up, but just take a look at your posts over the years. Nothing's really changed in my opinion. I do give you credit for running through the achilles, but you're right back in the same predicament. All this seems complicated by what appears on the surface a kind of weird desire to rush down the road to the next faux injury. Why? With the intense desire and emotional investment you have for running, you'd think you'd be enjoying your victory over the Achilles, at least for a little while..:>)
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Edited by - art on 11/21/2010 14:16:56 |
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hsb
149 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2010 : 15:25:11
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i don't take offense i appreciate your thoughts. i honestly don't believe that i rush into things. i was biking quite a bit all summer and fall i've been riding and i started the computrainer classes, they were hard but i never ever think that i am going to get an injury from something that i do. i thought i was ready for them and capable.
i did enjoy my 4 month respite from the achilles - believe me. one of the reasons i took up cycling was to get all that focus off of the running. i was down to running 3x a week.
yes this is a constant battle with me. |
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Potential TMS Trigger
