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art
1903 Posts |
 Posted - 07/25/2010 : 12:32:54
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wrld, me 3. The very worst thing for me is introspection, and trying to "think" my way out of my problems.
I call it the physics of thought, such that for every positive thought (positive, helpful self-talk), there is an equal (in terms of emotional force) and opposite negative thought.
"This is TMS"....."This is not TMS."
"I'm a good person"...."I'm a terrible person."
"I have nothing to fear"....."I have plenty to fear."
I'm seemingly powerless to control my own thinking. There's a certain perverseness in the way my mind works. Or maybe it has to do with the nature of thought itself, or the nature of language. By affirming something, we must also by definition be denying its opposite. When we deny something, we necessarily bring it to light...Or so it seems to me.
For me, refraining from thinking is much the better way to go...Using my body is as Alexis might say, a great distraction in this regard...
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Edited by - art on 07/25/2010 16:42:24 |
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hsb
149 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2010 : 16:46:29
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hey wrld - that's what i was thinking - can't hurt worse so why not run. well i've been running and man my achilles hurts. hurts all the time; always had but i think i had a reprieve for a bit and when i decided to start running again after 4+ months, it has gotten progressively worse. but i am really going to try to continue to run and gut it out if i can. try again tomorrow . . . .
(originally posted in wrong place sorry) |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2010 : 20:23:24
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"I'm seemingly powerless to control my own thinking."
Art, my thought exactly. I hate that! It feels humiliating to be at the mercy of one's thoughts, don't you think? I am continually struggling with negative, hypochondriacal thoughts that seem to stick to me like super glue. If I try to avoid the thoughts, they seem to get bigger. If I try some CBT on them, that works for awhile until my brain comes up with another negative angle I hadn't thought of and then I have to start all over. Sometimes I try the Buddhist mindful approach of simply non-reactively noticing the thoughts, but that doesn't work if I am too anxious.
Coincidentally, today I am caught up in worry and dread over the minor incident at the gym last week where I slightly hyperextended my thoracic area over a Swedish ball. Most people would not have given it a second thought. Actually, that fact enrages me (that most people escape the drama while I am in the thick of it).
The only RELIABLE way I have found to turn off the thinking, at least for awhile, is to go out and sweat. Meditation works sometimes. Getting busy doing something helps. Socializing works even better.
I read a book recently, something like "Too Soon Old, Too Late Wise" where the author said there are three things people need to be happy:
Something to do; someone to love, and something to look forward to. I agree. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 07:04:46
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Wrld, the only thing that works for me is a distraction strategy. When I focus on my breathing, I'm able to stop thinking. It took me a good few months to learn to trust this, but it definitely works..
Give it a try? |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 20:23:11
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Art, I'll try that. Is there a particular way you do that, eg, are you concentrating intensely on the breath, or is the breath more of an anchor as it would be in mindfulness meditation.
I'm also coming to the same conclusion; that distraction is the only thing that works. The conventional rx (for health anxiety) is meds and cbt, but neither of those seem to do much for me. In fact, the cbt sort of challenges my brain to come up with even better reasons why there is something wrong. Dispute that, and it won't be long before the brain finds a way around it. On and on...
No, only distraction (and I don't mean "thought-stopping"--that is a futile exercise), and exercise (which can serve as a distraction), and socializing (if pleasureable), and getting interested in something outside of myself, works. |
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hsb
149 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2010 : 06:15:29
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wrld and art-
did my runs tuesday and this morning. it really sucks running in pain. hate it; especially doing something you love. what i am trying to do is curb the "running will make it worse", "this is chronic and won't get better" thinking to a minimum. i am telling myself that running makes me feel better everywhere but the achilles so that is better for me. it's tough not to think injury when it hurts so much and carries over to every day life. but i will try to prevail and keep on running. i pray it will one day go away. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2010 : 08:58:09
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wrld, we have a lot of the same dynamics (polite term for neuroses)..I'm convinced that over the years all the worry adn anxiety have sensitized me so that I'm almost in a constant state of hyper-vigilance. Not always of course, but a good deal of my mental energy is spent in keeping the lid on things.
That said, I've had some improvement. I'm much better with running through the over-use stuff, also much better not fretting so much. Its not easy, but definitely progress
On the breath thing, I focus on breath while trying to relax. When thoughts intrude, just go back to breath. Do it enough times, and whatever the anxious thoughts were go away. I've found, and this is key for me, that I feel anxiety mostly in my gut. If I relax my stomach muscles while doing the breathing thing, that helps alot.
Hs, keep it up. You're running in fear I imagine, which is why (I"m guessing) the pain won't go away. What works for me is accepting the worst as a possibility.
E.g, I think, "ok, maybe my hamstring will tear again, but I'm not going to fear it. If it's going to happen, then bring it on. Until that time, I'm going to enjoy my run"
Find a way to lose the fear. Try being philosophical too. "At this very moment, millions of people are in pain from serious illness. Many are dying. Many are starving. Whether I run or not is a small thing. I'll run for as long as I can, and when the day comes I can run no more (from aging, injury, whatever) I'll accept that as gracefully as I can" |
Edited by - art on 07/29/2010 09:01:56 |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2010 : 21:46:10
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Art--Isn't that the truth! (most mental energy spent "keeping a lid on things")
Today, I did something I know I should never do, and that is to check the internet regarding a symptom. The thoracic sx (very mild, but has my imagination running wild)after the gym hyperextension 10 days ago. Though I shouldn't have done it, this time I lucked out by finding that my big fear (herniation) is extremely unlikely; literally "one in a million" for thoracic herniations, apparently. And in those rare cases where they do occur they almost always resolve on their own, rarely requiring surgery.
Well, did that ease my anxious brain? Not much. I wondered why. "One in a million." Isn't that sufficient guarantee? Apparently not. One in a billion might do it. Is that crazy or what?
Fortunately, over the years I have gotten pretty good at forcing myself to challenge my symptoms. For example, tomorrow morning I will wake very early and hike up a very tough 14,000 ft plus mountain, which requires a lot of scrambling near the summit. It is very tiring on the whole body as well as the back because there is a lot of hunching forward carrying a pack, and even more on the downhill just trying to maintain balance. I know well from experience that most of the things I dread or fear look much different after the fact. Then, the reward. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2010 : 04:32:49
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Worst thing that could have happened...in a relative runner's sense that is...happened. Got back from a run yesterday and wham, hamstring pain an order of magnitude more intense than anything I've had to deal with since coming back from the injury..
The thing is, I'm very skeptical. Just before the pain kicked in I was sitting on the couch absolutely cooking with anger, something tht's very rare for me. Plus, I've not been doing anything that would account for it. The hamstrings been achey, but stable for weeks now.
I've done something I haven't in years, which is to schedule an MRI. The stakes are just too high for me to gamble with it, and an MRI should show definitively whether there's a tear. Actually, now that I think of it, it's a good injury in that regard.
If no tear, on go the running shoes. If there is, I'll just hve to deal with it.
Depressing as hell to be honest. |
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hsb
149 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2010 : 13:21:05
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boy art - i've been in your shoes many many times. but i usually rush to get the mri. on e thing i am skeptical of is that i bet if runners got mris - there would be tears found all over the place. the question is how come ours (tms people) don't heal quickly and become chronic.
how bad is the hamstring pain - been there. i have had it so bad that i couldn't lift my leg up a curb.
when is the mri scheduled for?
my achilles definitely has gotten worse with all the running and biking that i am doing. of course most people would stay to stop running if it's getting worse. all i say is that i stopped running for 4+ months and treated it and it should have gotten better. i will forge on.
keep us posted art. i bet mri shows just tendonitis |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2010 : 15:04:39
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quote:
Originally posted by hsb
boy art - i've been in your shoes many many times. but i usually rush to get the mri. on e thing i am skeptical of is that i bet if runners got mris - there would be tears found all over the place. the question is how come ours (tms people) don't heal quickly and become chronic.
how bad is the hamstring pain - been there. i have had it so bad that i couldn't lift my leg up a curb.
when is the mri scheduled for?
my achilles definitely has gotten worse with all the running and biking that i am doing. of course most people would stay to stop running if it's getting worse. all i say is that i stopped running for 4+ months and treated it and it should have gotten better. i will forge on.
keep us posted art. i bet mri shows just tendonitis
H, it's a dilemma for me. If this were plantar, or a toe, or ball of foot or whatever, I'd do what I usually do, which is to ignore it and run. But the hamstring is a dangerous place and I need to find out if there's a tear as the very last thing I want to do is turn a grade 1 into a 2 or 3 and be out for 6 months...
The pain isn't horrible, but it's reminiscent of the symptoms I had in the few days before I pulled it (and presumably tore it)...I can't find any discussion of hamstring in Divided Mind, and I don't recall a whole lot in the other book I read beyond a sentence or two....
The thing is, I've learned over the years to trust TMS more and more. And this just doesn't make much sense. The anger I was feeling immediately prior is VERY suspect. And as I said, the injury has been stable for a few weeks....Although, on second thought I have picked up the pace, But I really thought I was being careful enough..
I have a chronic illness that does much better when I can run, so the stakes are high. With the hammie, especially in the acute phase, I don't even think there's any cross training I can do..
MRI scheduled for Tue am.
By the way, I know you're a swimmer...Is that somewhat gentle on the hamstring, if I do need to rest???
Many thanks,
A. |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2010 : 18:56:05
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Art--I feel for you, re: the hamstring. You're right; hamstrings are scary places for injuries. Get the MRI this time and then you'll know. After that, you can either treat it as TMS or a real injury.
What part of the hamstring is painful? When you say you are afraid of a tear, do you mean a partial rupture or just some micro tearing with the fibers still attached? It takes a major force to actually rupture it so I wouldn't worry about that. It doesn't happen just sitting on your couch.
By the way, I did the mountain today and my back was absolutely not an issue. Unfortunately, I bumped my head on a massive rock and it swelled up immediately (no blood). I wasn't even worried about it during the hike, but somatized briefly when I got home. |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2010 : 19:01:21
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| Art--If you end up needing a break from runing, swimming could be a problem because it's hard to find a stroke that doesn't involve kicking. But you could get a pretty good workout using just your upper body. Cycling might be better--as long as you don't use toe clips--because you're using mainly the quads. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2010 : 09:36:59
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I surprised myself by going for a run this a.m. I had no intention of doing so, but I did. It was as if I was watching someone else pull on his running shorts and lace up his Gel Kayanos and step out the front door.
I kept thinking about how angry I was just before the hammie seemed to go bonkers and how if it was anyone else, I'd be advising them (irresponsibly I admit) to go for it. Or I think I would anyway..
I also figured if I went slowly enough, I probably wouldn't be making things all that much worse. And finally, I suppose along the lines of what hsb said the other day, I just really, really wanted to run..
So I did 40 short minutes so slowly I might have just toppled over...
So far so good. Fingers and toes crossed.. |
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hsb
149 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2010 : 09:50:02
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well good for you art. yup that is what you advised me. i have been going out 3x a week with this painful achilles. not getting better, perhaps worse but i am going to persist. not sure if it was you or wrld - run till it breaks!!! so i will.
it's tough running with the pain and not thinking i am doing further damage but i will keep on going.
regarding swimming - i use a pull buoy between my legs - it's styrofoam and it keeps your legs buoyant and you don't kick. most pools supply them on deck. this way it's purely an upper body workout.
glad you got out there. from your hammie up you probably felt great!!
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2010 : 12:22:24
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Hey HS,
We're thinking of taking retirement money and putting in one of those endless pools. As I get older, the more apparent it is to me that my running days are numbered and I need a no impact alternative (or almost no impact)...We'll no doubt be living on cat food, but that's ok...I tried the Y, and all that chlorine almost did me in. Plus, the water's so warm I didn't feel like I was getting a good work out. All that heat exhausts me...
Thanks for the tip on keeping the legs out, if that's needed at some point..
Kudos to you on your courage. |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2010 : 19:46:02
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For HSB: Hey, I saw a post on an ultra running site from a guy who switched from regular running shoes to some flatter, more minimalist shoes and concentrated on landing more mid to forefoot and noticed his achilles and hip problems disappear. He said that all he has to do to re-create the symptoms is to put the old shoes back on.
Might be worth a try if you haven't already done so. Barefoot or Vibrams might be even better (the guy said he didn't go the barefoot route because he was worried about glass, sharp rocks...). |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2010 : 13:30:57
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quote:
Originally posted by wrldtrv
For HSB: Hey, I saw a post on an ultra running site from a guy who switched from regular running shoes to some flatter, more minimalist shoes and concentrated on landing more mid to forefoot and noticed his achilles and hip problems disappear. He said that all he has to do to re-create the symptoms is to put the old shoes back on.
Might be worth a try if you haven't already done so. Barefoot or Vibrams might be even better (the guy said he didn't go the barefoot route because he was worried about glass, sharp rocks...).
Except this complicates the issue greatly. No guarantees of course, but seems far more likely to me, given the kind of history we're talking about, that this is TMS.
Plus, I can barely imagine the can of TMS worms that would be opened by a change in foot
strike. Ouch :>) |
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hsb
149 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2010 : 15:40:01
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i have been doing my 5 and 6 milers with every step painful. i try not to think of how much damage to my tendon i am doing. tendonosis is damage to the tendon not inflammation.
oh well i'm going to go for it and see what happens. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2010 : 16:52:11
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quote:
Originally posted by hsb
i have been doing my 5 and 6 milers with every step painful. i try not to think of how much damage to my tendon i am doing. tendonosis is damage to the tendon not inflammation.
oh well i'm going to go for it and see what happens.
I'm afraid this attitude is not very conducive to recovery. If you believe that by running (which the human body is designed to do) you are doing damage to your tendon, then you are not repudiating the structural explanation for the pain.
If you have a disease or medical condition for which running is contraindicated, then of course this is different... |
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Do I need to beat the hypochondria first?
