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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
 Posted - 07/17/2010 : 13:20:39
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Well, you certainly have been around the block on this, HSB. Did the podiatrist or ortho doc give you an MRI to verify tendonosis? Have you tried putting a lift in your shoes to take the pressure off the tendon while it heals? If you've done all these things and allowed sufficient time to pass without success, then maybe it is time to move on to another sport. It's interesting that you actually did have a pain free period at one point, which you can't attribute to anything in particular.
I understand your frustration, and believe me, I would hate even the thought of giving up running, but I think at this point I would do this: Find a new sport or sports I could get passionate about, which would also calm me and make me feel good about myself. Then, who knows, maybe 6 months, a year from now, I might feel good enough to ease back into running. Or not. I would try to act as though running were a thing of the past and if I'm surprised, great. I think that's the only way you are going to have peace of mind. |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2010 : 13:56:18
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Hsb, the answer is right in front of you in my opinion. History aside, the long, lurid list of endless unlikely injuries you've sustained over the years forgotten for a moment....if this were an actual structural injury the pain wouldn't simply go away. What would the reason for that be? That you suddenly were cured for a week, and then you weren't anymore?
I liked what you said in your last post if I understand you correctly, your idea to accept chronic pain and run anyway. Dollars to donuts it goes away, eventually for good. Of course, you'll probably be worried about something else in a month of two and you'll have to repeat the whole process...
Just go running. Life is short. Oh so short. How many years, collectively, have you lost due to injuries that for the most part were probably not real. Can you see that you're fulfilling all your worst fears?
Failing that, I think wrld is on the right track. Why torment yourself like this?
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Edited by - art on 07/17/2010 14:00:15 |
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hsb
149 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2010 : 14:15:57
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well i've tried all treatments wrld. resting especially not running for months and months. the only thing i can think of when the pain went away for 3 months was htat i was in a boot. maybe the tendonosis calmed down?????????? but as i wrote earlier about 3 weeks ago i think i was pain free.
art i did decide to run/bike with the pain. it sucks big time because i just love running and pain makes it not so great but i will try to continue = 3 or 5 mile runs instead of big mileage
wrld - i took up biking and am trying to be passionate about it but you must understand that the achilles pain is 24/7 - all the time and in all sports - even swimming.
i don't know if i can find a substitute. i have given up running basically this year and swam most of the time.
i will try again to run tomorrow.
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2010 : 14:53:27
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"resting especially not running for months and months. the only thing i can think of when the pain went away for 3 months was htat i was in a boot. maybe the tendonosis calmed down?????????? but as i wrote earlier about 3 weeks ago i think i was pain free. "
Does it seem likely that tendinosis, which is supposed to involve damage at a cellular level, "a pathology of chronic degeneration" (can they make it sound any scarier?) just somehow temporarily "calmed down?" WHy? Because it felt like it? Pain that comes and goes mysteriously is a classic TMS sign.
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2010 : 21:15:15
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HSB,
I went back and looked at some of your old posts. One dated 7/29/06 complains of achilles pain; in fact, you expressed the same terror of it (understandably) as now. Well, that was four years ago. I'm interested in what happened to that pain all those years. You have been running your four days a week, every week (about 30 miles?) all this time. Have you been in pain the whole time? Curiously, after the 06 series of posts, you don't mention the achilles again until now, though you mention hamstring and groin pain and talk about them in the same way. What I'm getting at is that if you were achilles pain free for much or most of the past four years while you continued your running regimen, isn't that curious? |
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hsb
149 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2010 : 02:50:49
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hi wrld.
yes i have had tons and tons of "running injuries". this is why i believe in TMS - no one could possibly be as "injured" as me. plus each one takes forever to heal even after every treatment imaginable; much longer than it is supposed to take. in the past each time , the pain would eventually go away - all parts of the body. this time, the achilles tendonosis is the longest one yet - about one year. it's just not going away. hence the decision to start running and biking again.
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2010 : 04:09:45
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quote:
Originally posted by hsb
hi wrld.
yes i have had tons and tons of "running injuries". this is why i believe in TMS - no one could possibly be as "injured" as me. plus each one takes forever to heal even after every treatment imaginable; much longer than it is supposed to take. in the past each time , the pain would eventually go away - all parts of the body. this time, the achilles tendonosis is the longest one yet - about one year. it's just not going away. hence the decision to start running and biking again.
I'm guessing it hasn't gone away because the diagnosis, (you made a point of calling it a "real diagnosis,") is so dire. "cellular damage," "chronic degeneration." "increased chance of rupture." You've finally hit the structural injury jackpot, an overuse syndrome that might very well never go away...I'm sure it scared the hell out of you...as it would me... and planted the suggestion that you might be cooked forever.
Of course, I'm just about certain you're not, for all the reasons discussed.
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Edited by - art on 07/18/2010 09:26:49 |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2010 : 20:29:14
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Since this is the hypochondria topic, I'll add this bit. Two days ago at the gym, while stretching (hyper-extending) my back on a swedish ball as I always do, maybe I went a hair too far because I felt a slight twinge (thoracic area) that got more noticeable as the day went on. Not bad, but I took some ibuprofen just in case and expected to wake up stiff the next morning.
Next morning, no trace of it. Then today, a day later, I happened to be driving and was feeling very depressed about life in general, when I made the observation that at that moment, I had no symptoms (foot, leg--something)of any kind. This is not at all typical for me; I am almost always worrying about some symptom or other. Following that observation was the thought, "I wonder if that's why I nearly always have symptoms; as a distraction from the full-blown experience of the knowledge that my life is not the way I want it to be." An instant later, I made a slight turn with my back and there was the back twinge again from two days ago that had completely disappeared.
Okay, what follows is the important point. Instead of only worrying about life issues, suddenly I was back to worrying about my back. Maybe the disc herniated. Maybe this is the beginning of a back problem. Surgery. No more running. On and on, all ridiculous of course, but I couldn't stop it. The original cause of worry and depression was partially submerged in the new, more imminent threat.
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2010 : 13:23:36
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That's a great observation wrld. That's the sort of stuff I've been noticing. Like you, I almost always have something cooking, hypochondriacally speaking. Yesterday, which was in no way untypical, I had a new knee pain, a recurrence of the ball of foot/toe pain, back pain that IO briefly worried might be my kidneys (hah!), pain in the other foot along the top, a weird, cramped feeling in groin, and on it goes....
I know these are all nonsense, but fear is such a powerful emotion, so powerful it tends to be impervious to logic...
But I'm making progress, and I get the feeling you are too. Some unfortunates are stuck forever. A few years ago I thought I had this stuff licked, then I turned 59 and had a big relapse. The forum's been very helpful to me since then. I'm grateful it's here... |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2010 : 17:52:02
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Art--I hope you're right (about progress). Sometimes, I think so, other times, I feel like the hypochondria is getting worse. I guess the big difference between now and a few yrs ago is that now I KNOW I'm a hypochondriac, and I KNOW when the current symptom is probably more mind than body. And that knowledge, is in some ways very depressing because one despairs of ever getting a handle on it. Often, I feel shame and embarrassment to be making a big deal about a symptom (even if I don't tell anyone) that most people would ignore or not even be aware of.
TMS, hypochondria; it really is sort of the same thing in a way, isn't it? Both are mind-body problems and both are harmless (physically). I sense it is the same with you, Art, but exercise, espec running, is the one thing I can count on to work nearly always and that's why I am particularly afraid of anything that threatens that. |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2010 : 06:23:01
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Hi guys,
I'm going to stick my neck out and play a bit of a devil's advocate here. Personally, I rather suspect a lot of running addiction of being just another form of distraction syndrome (one mixed with simple chemical addiction). One of the most common themes on TMS sites is people who want to get back to running - rarely other forms of exercise - running is the thing. Interestingly it is also the form of exercise that most often shows up in studies on exercise addiction.
So why is it that so many people seem to want to conquer their TMS in order to get back to another distraction - and one known to have addictive neuro-chemical effects and defined by it's relatively anti-social nature? Assuming all the runners here actually do have TMS (and aren't just trying to get back to an addictive behavior), might it be wise to examine running as a TMS equivalent in doing one's TMS work?
Alexis
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Edited by - alexis on 07/24/2010 06:23:44 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2010 : 11:27:25
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quote:
Originally posted by alexis
Hi guys,
I'm going to stick my neck out and play a bit of a devil's advocate here. Personally, I rather suspect a lot of running addiction of being just another form of distraction syndrome (one mixed with simple chemical addiction). One of the most common themes on TMS sites is people who want to get back to running - rarely other forms of exercise - running is the thing. Interestingly it is also the form of exercise that most often shows up in studies on exercise addiction.
So why is it that so many people seem to want to conquer their TMS in order to get back to another distraction - and one known to have addictive neuro-chemical effects and defined by it's relatively anti-social nature? Assuming all the runners here actually do have TMS (and aren't just trying to get back to an addictive behavior), might it be wise to examine running as a TMS equivalent in doing one's TMS work?
Alexis
You're a brave gal, Alexis :>)...My first thought is that you could probably call just about any enjoyable pursuit a TMS-type distraction. What about work (sure, an economic necessity), but many people go nuts when they retire....or worse, even die. What about music? Art? Writing? What about yoga? Or passionate stamp collecting?
Have you read "Denial of Death" by Becker. His thesis is that it's not sex, a la Freud that motivates much of human behavior and thought, but death (more specifically the denial of it). In short, much of what we do as individuals, and the institutions we build and tend to as a society, are simply distractions or outright denials of our mortality.
Perhaps so, but it sure takes the poetry out of life. A tad reductionist for my taste, like calling evrything, from running to myopia (see neighboring thread) TMS...
I'll let wrld jump in here if he wishes, but just to add I've always loved using my body. We are animals after all. I started running when I was about 9, just for the pure joy of it. And I love all forms of aerobic-type actitivy..biking, hiking, x-country skiing...
Sure, might be the things you say...Surely the chemical addiction...but not sure how useful such a view of the world is...
As always, I enjoy your thoughts... Look forward to hearing more. |
Edited by - art on 07/24/2010 11:31:56 |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2010 : 14:26:51
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Alexis, there's no doubt running is a distraction, and the more you like it, the more of a distraction or addiction. I'm perfectly fine with that. As Art says, we all need something to give our lives meaning and running works better than a lot of things, especially because it has such a powerful affect on our hormones.
I know that many non-runners can't fathom why anyone would want to run, especially marathons and ultras. Why would anyone want to suffer when they don't have to? Simply, because it is meaningful in the moment, and because there is a sense of accomplishment afterwards. Never mind the benefits of goal-setting, planning the next race, the challenge of beating others or even you own best time.
As a hypochondriac, nothing beats a good tough, exhausting race where during the heat of competition, all physical fears vanish and I feel invincible. The affect often last many hours or even a day or two.
Add in the knowledge that I am probably in the high 90th percentile in fitness and health for men of my age. That's a good feeling. Ironically, running for simple physical fitness is probably the least of the reasons I run.
There was a 70's book called, "Positive Addiction" where running was the prime example. Better than a negative addiction like drugs; in fact, many drug addicts have discovered running and that has kept them clean. Anti-social? Sure, it can be, or not. Races, running groups, or alone. You choose. |
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alexis
USA
596 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2010 : 15:02:40
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quote:
Originally posted by wrldtrv
There was a 70's book called, "Positive Addiction" where running was the prime example. Better than a negative addiction like drugs; in fact, many drug addicts have discovered running and that has kept them clean.
I definitely agree with you on the idea of a positive addiction - even eating and breathing might be seen as "addiction" and no one wants to give up those. And this is where I'm torn on running. It seems like it really is positive for a lot of people, and certainly for a 20 year old beats television or internet or drugs as an addiction. Though I've also seen at least one friend destroy her knee running and a few others stretch themselves to points that I can't believe are physically healthy.
And yet if you do have a TMS personality and you might benefit from self reflection and realization, couldn't this particular distraction be defeating if looking for a cure? Is one really trying to cure their TMS under these circumstances, or just get back to another form of distraction?
But I'm kind of blurring the line here between running as addiction and distraction. If one's addiction is purely chemical, or an addiction to achievement or winning that not necessarily related to TMS (that would take a whole other discussion ... though I think a few who are purely chemically addicted may erroneously cling to the TMS theory rather than face a real injury which threatens the sometimes heroin-like addiction).
But if it's the same TMS "addiction to distraction" that's where I'm wondering if some people really aren't playing at a self-defeating game with a focus not on getting back to "life" but instead at getting back to "running" at the exclusion, still, of coming to terms with the rest of life. Is the effort for some just to transfer the distraction mechanism back to something more pleasant?
Maybe not a problem - if the transfer is permanent and it leads to a happy life. But if it sets one up for a high risk of TMS recurrence, or saps other aspects of life, that might be a problem.
A question I find interesting is whether TMS might arise in "distraction-runners" when a real injury transfers the individual's distraction mechanism to health and it can't go back. In this way, if one is using running for distraction, are they creating a mental environment conducive to TMS?
Alexis
(Vocab note: I'm abusing the word "chemical" here to refer to an unusual narcotic/opiod release - even though all brain reactions are chemical at some level, I don't think that's the best way to understand behavioral addiction).
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Edited by - alexis on 07/24/2010 15:48:23 |
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Wavy Soul
USA
779 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2010 : 00:04:16
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quote:
Like you, I almost always have something cooking, hypochondriacally speaking.
Oh! Aaargh! I resemble this remark.
Love is the answer, whatever the question |
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hsb
149 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2010 : 06:58:12
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most of the runners i know are obsessive compulsive about their running and are addicted. some of them run 50 mpw or more. there is no doubt that some of them are doing it to escape other things in their life. but ..... only a few are TMSers. when they get injured it's for a short period of time . they do get obsessive about the injury but for they do heal in the normal healing time - 6 weeks or so. most of them do run through injuries as well.
the difference i believe is that one with tms (me included) totally obsesses about an injury - the tape loop thinking begins - what should i do, should i run, should i get treatment, which treatment is best. then what happens especially with me is that i stop running and no treatment works. treatment works for non tmsers.
i sort of agree with alexis in the fact that i wonder if i choose the tms option in order to give me an excuse to run. i say it's mind/body and then i can run thinking it's not real. it's a very big dilemma with me because i do not heal like everyone else that is why i beleive i have tms but i have been running now about 4 weeks with this achilles and the achilles is still not good at all. but ... there is no treatment left for me to do. it sucks running with pain but i am really trying not to think about the finality, i.e. that the rest of my life i will have pain. those thoughts are killers.
so it's a dilemma - wrld, art - do you sometimes think that tms is an excuse to run through things? |
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Cee
USA
71 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2010 : 09:12:13
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My family calls me a hypochonriac...it started in childhhod and then after I was married (25 years ago) my husband caught on and he started it too...past it along to our children and now the whole family refers to me that way. I am a well-educated woman, but they do not see that....and I guess, when I am in pain, I do not see it either. I just see a "sick" person trying to cope.
I am in pain right now as I type this...my right leg hurts from the calf muscle to the groin...usually I am battling foot pain and neuropathy but the pain has moved to my legs and my right leg is really hurting and I am blaming it on trying to have a normal life and stand and walk and clean my house...but then my mind says...see now you have pain because there is something very wrong with you and you need to sit and do nothing all day...then I just cry...out of pain...out of frustration. I am no fun to be with.....and yes I do have a confirmed anxiety disorder that I have learn to deal with or so I think I have.
Cee |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2010 : 11:12:52
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quote:
Originally posted by hsb
i sort of agree with alexis in the fact that i wonder if i choose the tms option in order to give me an excuse to run. i say it's mind/body and then i can run thinking it's not real. it's a very big dilemma with me because i do not heal like everyone else that is why i beleive i have tms but i have been running now about 4 weeks with this achilles and the achilles is still not good at all. but ... there is no treatment left for me to do. it sucks running with pain but i am really trying not to think about the finality, i.e. that the rest of my life i will have pain. those thoughts are killers.
so it's a dilemma - wrld, art - do you sometimes think that tms is an excuse to run through things?
But hs, you don't do that, at least historically. Looking from the outside in, you do the opposite..You're using any physical excuse *not* to run. |
Edited by - art on 07/25/2010 12:23:45 |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2010 : 11:20:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Cee
My family calls me a hypochonriac...it started in childhhod and then after I was married (25 years ago) my husband caught on and he started it too...past it along to our children and now the whole family refers to me that way. I am a well-educated woman, but they do not see that....and I guess, when I am in pain, I do not see it either. I just see a "sick" person trying to cope.
I am in pain right now as I type this...my right leg hurts from the calf muscle to the groin...usually I am battling foot pain and neuropathy but the pain has moved to my legs and my right leg is really hurting and I am blaming it on trying to have a normal life and stand and walk and clean my house...but then my mind says...see now you have pain because there is something very wrong with you and you need to sit and do nothing all day...then I just cry...out of pain...out of frustration. I am no fun to be with.....and yes I do have a confirmed anxiety disorder that I have learn to deal with or so I think I have.
Cee
But Cee, strictly speaking you *are* a hypochondriac. You continue to insist there's something physically wrong with you despite diagnoses to the contrary. That;s the very definition of the condition..
But that's the good news. This forum is loaded with hypos, me included. The trick is to understand that about ourselves and then find the courage to move on. |
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wrldtrv
666 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2010 : 12:16:24
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And yet if you do have a TMS personality and you might benefit from self reflection and realization, couldn't this particular distraction be defeating if looking for a cure? Is one really trying to cure their TMS under these circumstances, or just get back to another form of distraction?
Alexis--In my case, I've had about all the self-reflection and realization I can handle. Refraining from running wouldn't improve matters in the least. Anyway, it is just as easy to indulge in mindless distractions as replacements. I've had long periods of no running and I was just as TMS or hypochondriacally prone as with.
I'm quite convinced that for me, running is a 100% win-win situation, the single best thing I have ever done for myself. I only regret I haven't done a lot more of it over the years. For most of my running career, I enjoyed it, but had no problem laying off it, doing other things, doing nothing. It's actually only in the past few years that I realize how valuable it is and want to do a lot more of it(maybe because I'm now 56). That said, any form of endurance exercise makes me feel good; it doesn't necessarily have to be running. |
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Do I need to beat the hypochondria first?
