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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
 Posted - 01/19/2005 : 09:51:22
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I've got news for you. I have structural problems in my back also. I had a chiropractor take a whole slew of x-rays on me and showed me my problems. According to him, I should be walking hunched over with a cane by now! Thank God I got outta there. The difference is that in your case, your back is your center of focus 24/7 and that is where your symptoms lie. I agree with Tom. You can go have surgery and but once that placebo wears off, where will your problems take up residence next? I've been to orthopedic doctors, physical therapists, chiropractors, massage therapists. I know what back pain is. My back pain eventually went away when my dizziness began. I agree with you that the problem initiates the anxiety. It is a VICIOUS CIRCLE!!! It's like a dog chasing it's tale, around and around.
Feeling so dizzy that you feel like you are on the Titanic isn't much fun either. That's what I've been dealing with for nearly three years. If I read what it says on the dizziness website, I'd be setting myself up for "years and years" of misery with no end in sight. The condition I thought I had, Mal De Debarquement (failure to disembark, after traveling on a plane/boat), says there are people who suffer from this condition indefinitely and "there is no known cure." I had no choice but to explore other avenues. The doctors couldn't do a damn thing to help me. I was told "there's nothing we can do. It will eventually go away." Eventually? I'm not going to sit here and wait for eventually. I'd rather do the work and read the books, over and over and over again, and talk to other TMS patients who suffer the same symptoms as me. Through this website, I've found several other people who suffer with the same TMS problem, one of them cured when her back pain started.
It sounds like you have "checked out" and you are done with this forum. You need to do what you need to do and move on. Good luck with your surgery. I really do hope you get the long awaited results you are looking for. In the meantime, if you don't get into some therapy you are going to have far worse problems than just your back. You need to talk to someone and vent your emotions, of which there are many.
Peace!
Laura
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 10:08:54
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quote:
Originally posted by TMSPain
I thought pain would go when you become aware of what is causing the pain.
This sentence alone proves that you did not comprehend Dr. Sarno's book. |
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TMSPain
21 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 10:50:09
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| No Dave, not true, I comprehend his book perfectly. I don't always write perfectly what I mean. I know that in many cases it takes more than just being aware, but I am in psychotherapy and have no idea what specifically to focus on. When the therapist asks what are you upset about, I say my back. I also give her a list of 50 to 60 other things that could be making me upset, but never as much as dealing with back pain and the fear of its return. I constantly go over what is going on in my life and what is bothering me. Never works! How long does it take for the unconscious mind to learn? I know I have low self esteem, I know all my stresses. I have dealt with most of them. I am just waiting for the only stress that I can't live with to go away. BACK PAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Albert
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 11:14:54
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I've recently felt enraged about my back pain too. But perhaps I have been putting the cart before the horse. Accusing my back pain instead of what causes it.
Right now I feel as if I need to find out where the rage comes from.
P.S. I do get enraged at times and talk sternly to the part of my mind that creates TMS symptons. "Sternly?" That reminds me of Howard Stern. How did he and other people get better if TMS theory isn't true?
quote:
Originally posted by TMSPain
No Dave, not true, I comprehend his book perfectly. I don't always write perfectly what I mean. I know that in many cases it takes more than just being aware, but I am in psychotherapy and have no idea what specifically to focus on. When the therapist asks what are you upset about, I say my back. I also give her a list of 50 to 60 other things that could be making me upset, but never as much as dealing with back pain and the fear of its return. I constantly go over what is going on in my life and what is bothering me. Never works! How long does it take for the unconscious mind to learn? I know I have low self esteem, I know all my stresses. I have dealt with most of them. I am just waiting for the only stress that I can't live with to go away. BACK PAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 11:25:50
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quote:
Originally posted by TMSPain
When the therapist asks what are you upset about, I say my back.
You need to understand that this is circular reasoning. As long as you think this way you can't get better.
You say "how long does it take" but you haven't gotten to step 1. I know you have tried but you haven't made it. You still live in fear of the pain, you still believe that your structural problem may be the cause of the pain, and you believe the pain is the cause of your problems rather than the other way around.
I understand your frustration and even felt the same way at one time, when my symptoms did not improve despite what I thought was hard work. You're still caught in the cycle. The cycle must be broken for symptoms to improve. You believe you have done the work, but you really haven't.
This may sound harsh but it comes from experience. You have gone through the motions but you have not changed your mindset nor have you ever truly believed in the diagnosis. You have been unable to break the cycle and that is why your pain continues. It is not because the theory is wrong. The thousands of people that Sarno has helped would strongly disagree with you.
This forum is only a tiny subset of the TMS-afflicted population. Basing your conclusions on the posts in this forum is foolish and illogical. Many people who have recovered completely from TMS have far worse structural diagnoses than you. |
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polly
127 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 11:49:04
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MRosenthal, Disk Pain, TMS Pain,
If you're seeing a therapist, you're seeing the wrong one. I know a lot of people who have gone to therapy and found someone that would just listen to them drone on without ever guiding them towards some help. That is certainly what you've done here and I'm guessing that's what you do in therapy.
I do hope you get better. Seeking attention is all you've done here. You might want to consider that you're holding on to your pain to define yourself. You've done nothing more than play games with people who were trying to help you.
You seem to have done a lot of things to keep yourself from getting better. Again, you've helped me a lot. If you don't have TMS, nobody does. The people here and the people that have healed had a different agenda than you. They wanted to get better. You just want everyone to know you're in pain and that it's worse than anybody elses.
btw, my MRI's show 3 herniated discs, spinal stenosis and severe osteo arthritis. "Doctors" look at my xrays and such and can't understand why I'm not in a wheelchair. The only real problem I have is from the surgery I had before I found Dr. Sarno.
Good luck,
Polly |
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TMSPain
21 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 12:10:32
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| Thanks Dave! It is just hard to believe that at 26, I am having back problems that started when I worked out at the gym. It makes it very difficult to get past completely. |
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Hocky
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 21:19:12
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TMSPain,
I apologize. You are right about my post the other day. I had no right. Again, I am sorry; I should have respected your privacy. It was very thoughtless of me. I wish you best of luck with your surgery. I sincerely hope you fully recover, placebo or not, and get your life back. |
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Stryder
686 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 21:42:45
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> What have I gotten from this time wasted?
> Nothing more than the same pain I started
> with which comes and goes with my anxiety levels.
Yes, that's it.
Less angst, more rescues.
Good luck, take care, -Stryder
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diverlarry
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2005 : 06:18:34
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TMSPain
I had a friend who i use to weight lift with. He started to have back problems. He was having pain down his right leg. He had a operation. The pain went away immediately and he is back to hard weightlifting. This was 2-3 years ago.
This happened when i was going through a very bad time. If the doctor i seen had told me to get a operation, i would probably have done it. I thought since the operation worked for him, it should work for me to. I was very depressed when she told me there was nothing wrong.(there was a ruptured disk and a buldging disk). I had been suffering from back pain for 15 years off and on. I wanted a operation. I wanted to be fixed. I probably could have found a doctor that would have done it if i kept looking.
Thats when i started to read Dr Sarno. I had read the book before but it didn't work, becasue i didn't believe it. This time it worked .
Having a doctor tell me there was nothing wrong is very powerful. Im back to doing what i use to do. I get sore when i do some new things i have not done before . I still have programming fears now and then. But i don't have back problems like i use to. Pain free....being 50 and being very active i have aches and pains. Im sore now and then. I tend to push myself. Overall i feel great. I also stopped drinking when i read the book. This was a huge factor.
My mother had 2 back operations and still gets "flareups " and spasm. Now her knee hurts her so much she is thinking of getting a knee replacement.
You can always find information to support what you really believe.
Maybe the operation will work, maybe it won't. When you get the operation you will know. If it works it will support your belief that there was something physcially wrong. If it dosen't then maybe this is what you need to believe the TMS theory.
I was lucky not to get operated on. I was lucky enough to pick a good Doctor.
Its good to hear a different opinion now and then.
good luck.
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2scoops
USA
386 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2005 : 11:46:51
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You are not going to get better with Sarno if you keep mentioning "herniated disc". You still believe that you are injured and that is what is causing your pain. I was 26 when my pain got worse. I had really bad burning in the low-back, both legs and down into the feet. My pain got worse when I sat. I also had considerable weakness in my left leg. My pain was constant and got worse when sitting. I am now 28. I feel so much better with Sarno than any other doctor made me feel. I have a lot more confidence with Sarno. The problem with these current diagnosis these doctors give us is that they always have existed, we just now have the tools to see them with.
America is so surgery crazy, pill crazy, etc. We want a quick fix and if you keep measuring the effectiveness of your TMS pain then it will hinder your progress. If your like me, and I believe that with the younger generation that we were raised on this internet with it's availability of information then we research just about anything. When I was given my diagnosis, I researched. I followed it's recommendations, it's theories on how to treat my back. It's nice to receive info, but we got to make sure that's it's correct info. So if you were like me you researched your "condition", you got on message boards board, you lived in fear, and got no relief. So if you are still doing searches on "herniated discs", exercises, alternative treatments, etc. then you are not going to get better and you will remain as conditioned as ever.
I'd hate to say it, but with today's media, they want us to live in fear. Marketers want us to feel inadequate. If were vulnerable, then were more likely to buy their product or follow their treatment, because hey, they have to make a living some how. This affects our self-esteem. More and more women are more conscious about their breast size and guys about their "manhood". We are being fed lies just to keep the cycle going. I strongly believe that self-esteem plays a big part in this TMS cycle.
Right now TMSPain, you have an opportunity to look inside yourself and evaluate your life, you get a chance to see what emotional pain is causing your physical pain. Most people have no idea that they could be close to pain-free, and that they have the power to combat pain attacks. You have been blessed, with this info. I say, if you are still researching your back, going to the doc for it, still think it's the cause of your pain, then I do not care how long you read Sarno's books, read them anoither 10 years, your still going to be in pain. If you think that becuase of your age that it can't be TMS then you are dead wrong. I had my first attack at 15. As long as we are able to generate tension, we are susecptible to TMS. To let you know, my diagnosis was three bulging discs, spondylolysis, and disc degeneration. I was told that I had the back of a 50 year old man. Talk about conditioning. My biggest regret was that I have seen too many docs. But I wish you the best. |
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2005 : 12:56:51
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2scoops,
Loved your post! You are right on!!! I went to several ENT's and two other M.D.'s when my dizziness started. I went on the website for Mal de Debarquement (a syndrome which means "failure to disembark" which occurs to some people, supposedly, after flying or being on a boat). The discussion forum and websites for that "rare disorder" with "no known cure" were frightening and I believe they exacerbated my symptoms. My husband kept telling me to stop reading about it (I hadn't even been given any diagnosis by my doctors - they just said they didn't know what was wrong or when it would go away, and to stay off of airplanes and boats!) because I was making myself sick inside each time I did.
This forum gave me new hope. I know I have TMS and I can make my dizziness better or worse by my very own thoughts. I hope that TMS pain can take some of the advice given here and save himself from surgery but it doesn't sound like it will happen.
I cannot believe a doctor told you that you had the back of a 50 year old man. According to Dr. Andrew Weil, in his book Spontaneous Healing, that's known as "medical hexing." The people who beat the odds that the doctors give them are the ones whose minds are strong enough to go out and prove otherwise. One has only to be reminded of Christopher Reeve. I enjoyed your post and I'm glad you were spared surgery.
Laura
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Bon Voyage
