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TMSPain
21 Posts |
 Posted - 01/18/2005 : 06:27:56
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Well, thank you everyone. I am leaving the board for good and have made plans to have surgery. Unfortunately, there are not enough recovery stories for herniated disk sufferers here on this board. Everyone seems to have little aches and pains of arthritis. Not a real structural abnormality. I am not saying that there weren't those who helped me here and there, but after an honest year on this board, I have not gotten better even the slightest bit. My pain actually went away last summer for almost the whole summer without even truly believing in Sarno at all. I appreciate the concept of TMS, but feel that this board seems to take every physical symptom and blame it on conditioning. I feel bad for those who sit there and for 15 years just keep blame everything on conditioning and never get better. Some get better, but few are ever pain free. Sarno talks about being pain free. I was told that Sarno's ideas have totally made 90% pain free. All I hear on this board are that people can now deal a little bit better with their pain. I can't sit there and try to assume that after years and years of practicing Sarno's work, I may be able to do activity with a little less pain. I know many people who have had surgery and they are completely healed and it has been years. They go to the gym and lift heavy weights and no pain ever. You don't hear that on this board. Also, I need to clarify the comments about my inconsistencies. I have been reading Sarno and watching his tapes, videos, and cds since January 2003. So that is 2 years of Sarno for all those who doubted me. However, I have practiced him for months at a time and when no improvement happened, I stopped. That is why I said I have only consistently journaled for a month or two. You have to understand that I continue to trigger month long pain when I do something strenuous. This is even after my confidence was built up. Sarno has taught me to focus so much on the emotional, that I now have physical pain and I am depressed due to dwelling on things that really are not worth dwelling on. I still don't really know what the work really is. I thought in most cases just the acceptance that the pain is emotional was to rid us all of the pain. I am seeing a psychotherapist so TennisTom can shut his mouth. I have been seeing one for months now. I have had a lot of progress with life's stresses in the therapist's office. I have not seen any affect on my back pain due to this success. I can only repeat that I am a very happy person when my back pain goes away for some time. When it returns, I get depressed, negative, angry, and dwell on everything. The PAIN initiates the emotional anger. It does not hide it or distract it. I get angry from the pain, not the opposite. My life was great before my so called "trigger" of TMS" pain. I had some stresses like EVERYONE. Yet I am 26 with all of this pain. I know so many people who have had horrible trauma and deaths in their family and other stresses who don't have a TMS equivalent that is severe. My pain is consistent and annoying. Then I get horrible month long battles with excruciating pain the will not give up. I am someone who has been open minded enough to fully give TMS 2 years of my life. I know many who would never be open minded enough to do that. What have I gotten from this time wasted? Nothing more than the same pain I started with which comes and goes with my anxiety levels. I will always have anxiety and stress and the acceptance of Sarno's idea has not changed that. Yes I have accepted his ideas that TMS is a distraction so that we don't have to attend to emotional issues. I have accepted until now because after 2 years, I cannot waste time with this any more. Future readers of this board can add this message to their list of patients who did not get better from Sarno's work.
Thanks for the advice through this. My surgery is March 18.
This is my last message on this board.
TMSPain |
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Carol
91 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2005 : 07:08:31
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TMSpain, I haven't responded to any of your messages because I didn't feel that I had anything of value to say that hasn't already been said. Now I only want to say good luck to you with your surgery. I hope you will post again after you have the surgery to let us know how you are doing. If I thought my pain could be fixed with surgery I would try it too. Unfortunatley I don't have a structural abnormality that can be "fixed".
I do resent your implication that the pain that the rest of us have experienced is minor and trivial. I hope that you experience relief. You need to know that the responses you have taken such exception to were just attempts to help you. Anyway, best of luck to you and hope for a pain free life.
Carol |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2005 : 10:03:36
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| MRosenthal, NO I WILL NOT SHUT MY MOUTH. You are one sick puppy. I thought you were DP all along. You can change your name but you cannot change your style. I remember when I posted you a very chastising post, and after that you changed names. Don't give us that BS about having a computer at work and a one at home. I do too, and I don't change my name. I recall you saying that your dad was a doctor and you drink, figures. Nothing in your final, final post makes any more sense than any of your previous posts. You get an F for ethics. A lot of people have sincerely tryed to help you. I guess every board has a creep like you who for whatever perverse reason has to play weird games. That's just the nature of the beast. I personally hope you come back, you make a fine little gremlin to provide some comic relief. I don't believe a word you say. Is your psychotherapist Sarno friendly? |
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diverlarry
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2005 : 11:15:44
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I also knew a weightlifter friend of mine who had surgery and is fine now. Maybe surgery will take away the pain. But the odds are against you.
No pain... who in life dosen't have some pain or discomfort.
Saturday i went sking for 5 hours. Sunday i went out for a run and a long walk. Monday i did some cardio and lifted weights. Tonight i will run/walk again. Am i sore...sure. But i feel great and im 50 years old. Im going to the DR next month again for some more body surfing. Im smiling, im happy,life is good. Does Sarno work ??? Dam right it does. Hell yea !!
YAHOOOOO !!! Look...im dancing !!
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kenny V
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2005 : 11:31:57
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Take it eeeeesee’s Tom you’ve been a good friend all along, dares only so much ya can offer.
This feller already had surgery on his mind.
quote:
Thanks for the advice through this. My surgery is March 18.
This is my last message on this board.
TMSPain
He just wanted the board to prove to him why he shouldn’t. In many things once your mind is made up
………. Believing in something, you really cannot convince anyone anything
………, unless they are open to receive the message. And with TMS, we have to be willing to let go of what we are holding on to. What ever is holding us hostage is usually the key of breaking the viscous cycle of the sydrome.
Always Hope For Recovery
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polly
127 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2005 : 14:56:04
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Good luck with your surgery. Your post today really helped me. I'm more sure of TMS than I ever was.
You are without a doubt a very sick man. The help you need is not on an operating table. One day you'll wake up and find the psychotherapy you are so in need of. You'll just have a few surgical scars.
You might want to question why you come on a forum and ask for help and do nothing more than try to belittle the people who try to help you. In your mental condition, if you find a surgeon to operate on you, I suggest you don't use them. I can't believe, even in the money hungry medical community, that a doctor would treat you with anything other than psychosis medication.
Polly
I'd be angry, but you are so pathetic and lost. |
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Hilary
United Kingdom
191 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2005 : 15:51:57
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| Bye! Don't let the door hit ya, etc. |
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Albert
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2005 : 16:29:15
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TMS PAIN:
You say your pain has a "real" physical cause. A bad disk. If this so, why does your pain come and go? If it's so deformed that it's a pinching a nerve and causing you pain, why do you have moments when it doesn't hurt you? It is hard to provide a logical answer for this question with bad disk theory. TMS THEORY DOES PROVIDE AN EXPLANATION. It sure explains why my pain moves all over the place. Different parts of my body go from hurting as if something is wrong, to feeling perfectly fine.
I know a lady who had disk fusion several months ago, plus she had a couple of big srews installed (she showed me the xray). She says that the pain has gone away. She does however constantly feel the screws pressing on her. I asked her if the pressing feeling gets to be like a pair of glasses or shoes. You might notice them at first, but then you forget about them. She answered "no." She always feels the screws pressing on her in an annoying way. Imagine what it would be like to be sitting on a rock or something, and you couldn't get rid of the rock. It would probably play the role of distractor. Perhaps she'll get back pain again (as many fusion patients do) and her doctor will tell her that the fused disk has caused another disk to wear down, and this worn disk is "now" responsible for the pain.
I've read some forums about disk replacement. It seems possible that the media has exagerated their efficiency. One person said their back pain went away, but they now have leg pain. Another person said that they haven't gotten better. One person said that the articial disk got loose. A couple of people said they have gotten better. One said that her back doctor responded to the issue of artificial disk replacement, as if it is a bunch of hype.
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holly
USA
243 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2005 : 20:27:30
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As I read this extremly disturbing post (I did not know that it was from MRosenthal). It was scary at first because I have been going downhill lately. Then TT revealed who it was. fuuuw!. It lost it's scaryness. If it wasn't for the fact that I was "cured" for a very long time from Dr. Sarno for 7 long years I might have felt a bit how he feels. Since I know the post is from him I am not a bit concerned about it. I did more of the work then and it paid off big time! Now I don't do as much and not much has happened for the good! I actually now have sciatica again on top of my toe and asthma problems. I am pretty sure it is from some excercise classes I recently started taking after 20 years but it could also be TMS of course! Do any of you wonder as much as we like to post here that it could give our minds some new ideas as to where to manifest TMS next?? I haven't had a back problem since that time and now it is back suddenly. So now I have 3 things going on at once!!! (can anyone tell me what happened to the switching??) This worries me because I want to be here just as all of you do I am sure.
I am suppose to start traveling into NYC next week, every Monday at night in the freezing cold to be in a small group with a TMS therapist. It is a 45 minute train ride by myself, then finding a taxi etc...yada yada yada. Let me say I REALLY don't want to go. Every Tuesday I see a regular therapist which if I stop I will loose my slot. She is very good. I have seen her about 7 times so far. So even this is enraging in itself. Is that even a word? (Enraging?) Anyone care to comment as I am feeling not too confident just about now.  |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2005 : 21:15:19
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Unfortunately, there are not enough recovery stories for herniated disk sufferers here on this board. Everyone seems to have little aches and pains of arthritis. Not a real structural abnormality.
How dare you say that! Now I am really angry. What makes you think that others here haven't had the same if not more pain than you have had. About a year ago I couldn't sit in a car to travel short distances . I had to lie down while wearing a lumbar corset that was supposed to be helping me. I was going to physio 4 times a week coz of the pain. I was so frustrated I tried everything. I had no life for almost 2 years and was crying most of the time in bed. Nothing worked. There are many here who have suffered and have had various abnormalites. You obviously haven't been reading the posts carefully enough or maybe you just want to believe you are different.
My recovery wasn't instant but Sarno did for me what no one else could but I am going to take some credit for it too coz I did the work. You don't just get better, you need to work at it mate and you need to do it right!
I feel bad for those who sit there and for 15 years just keep blame everything on conditioning and never get better.
You probably don't feel as bad for us as we feel sorry for you. I agree with tennis tom that nothing in any of your posts made much sense and it has always seemed that you never really wanted help or advice from us. You never really listened. You probably knew from the start you were going to have surgery.
I don't think though that my time has been wasted though. You have helped me enormously. Posting to you has reinforced my faith in Sarno.
You want the butchers to carve you up, poke around in you, drill in some screws and plates (whrrrr whrrr) then try to sew you up, well all I can say is Have fun and good luck. By the way you are Tms PAIN.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
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moose1
162 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2005 : 21:48:36
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| Later, jackass. Enjoy your odyssey through the nightmare known as the traditional back care industry. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2005 : 23:11:08
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Hi Holly,
I can't take credit for revealing that mrosenthal and dpain were one in the same, I believe that was Dave. I did strongly suspect it though.
Sorry to hear that you're feeling down. I feel you just need a TMS booster shot. You had success with TMS seven years ago, I think you just need a refresher. Any body part, IMO, is subsceptible to becoming a TMS site, from your toe to your asthma. The length of time it takes to overcome TMS depends upon the needs of the mind to maintain the physical distraction. The faster you can bring peace to your mind, the faster the pain will subside. It happens at the speed of belief - and then you have to sleep on it.
My usual suggestion is to go to page 26 of MBP and peruse the Rahe-Holmes list of life's events, both good and bad, that can "produce disease through the mechanism of internal rage." I can always come up with several life situations going on that I can attribute my TMS outbreak to.
I have also been listening to Dr. Schechter's tapes. I listen to them in the car during my commute. They are GREAT! Schechter was a student of Sarno's. He does an excellent job of simplyfing, clarifying and bringing alive, the Good Doctor's "penicillin information". Dr. Dubin, a TMS psychotherapist, is also featured on the tapes. I would recommend listening to the tapes or CD's, during your 45 minute journey to the meetings in NYC.
Consider yourself fortunate that you are able to access the "real TMS deal". I would not worry about losing your slot with the other therapist. I believe your group sessions with a therapist versed in TMS would be more valuable. Dr. Dubin said the MOST sessions he ever had to do to resolve TMS was 15, with a difficult case. You just need a TMS booster.
Hope this helps, please keep us informed, so we can learn with you.
Cheers,
tt
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2005 : 23:33:21
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TMS Pain,
Where's my violin?
You really pissed off a lot of people here didn't you? You have no absolutely no clue what you are talking about, but I'm glad you were able to vent.
Little aches and pains, huh? Lemme see. I've got dizziness, which alternates but can sometimes overlap with back pain, headaches, eye problems, mouths sores, stomach problems all mixed in with loads of anxiety. Everyone elses pain may be "little" to you, but to us it's huge and at times debilitating. I wish you the best of luck with your surgery. With your attitude, you're going to need it.
Laura
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Laura
USA
655 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2005 : 23:38:29
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Holly,
Don't worry about the overlapping of symptoms as I'm finding this to be quite normal. There are days when my dizziness is worse and others when my headaches or back pain are worse. But sometimes, I've got three or four problems going on at once. Right now, I'm under probably the most tremendous amount of stress I've been under for some time. My back hurts, my head is spinning, and I'm popping Tylenol all day for my headaches. The dizziness is still the one that aggravates and distresses me the most and thus far, it is the one TMS equivalent that I suffer from the most. Today, when my husband was talking about the fact that it's been four weeks at his new job and no check has come in, the room started spinning. I KNOW it's TMS, and this last post by TMS pain made me believe it even more.
Anyway, don't feel like you're alone with the symptoms. I think it's the body's way of really confusing us. I mean, it's working right? Then it has served it's purpose. Just realize that the combo of symptoms is normal and is okay and that it happens to many of us.
Laura
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TMSPain
21 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 06:30:47
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TMS Pain,
Where's my violin?
You really pissed off a lot of people here didn't you? You have no absolutely no clue what you are talking about, but I'm glad you were able to vent.
Little aches and pains, huh? Lemme see. I've got dizziness, which alternates but can sometimes overlap with back pain, headaches, eye problems, mouths sores, stomach problems all mixed in with loads of anxiety. Everyone elses pain may be "little" to you, but to us it's huge and at times debilitating. I wish you the best of luck with your surgery. With your attitude, you're going to need it.
Laura
It is simple Laura, you have symptoms of anxiety and one happens to be back discomfort. I have a structural problem. If I didn't, then I would not doubt TMS. I wish I had anxiety that slowly brought on some back pain. Mine was sharp intense, the muscles swelled up so I couldn't walk, and then I was stuck with sciatica and month long spasms. I could relax if I knew that 2 years of Sarno had helped a little. I will say this one more time "MY BACK PAIN WENT AWAY FOR MONTHS WITHOUT SARNO, AND NOW WITH ALL THE WORK IT IS STILL HERE". I believe that when people think Sarno is working, it is just a temporary let up in the symptoms. I have anxiety, but my anxiety and other problems WERE A DIRECT RESULT OF WORRYING ABOUT MY BACK PAIN. I NEVER HAD PROBLEMS LIKE THIS UNTIL I HURT MYSELF. NOW I FEEL LIKE I CAN'T DO ANYTHING. "NOW" IS THE KEY WORD. I USED TO GET STRESSED OUT AND JUST MOVE ON. NOW I ONLY GET STRESSED WHEN MY BACK PAIN COMES.
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 07:12:33
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quote:
Originally posted by TMSPain
I will say this one more time "MY BACK PAIN WENT AWAY FOR MONTHS WITHOUT SARNO, AND NOW WITH ALL THE WORK IT IS STILL HERE".
Explain how, if the pain is due to a structural problem, the symptoms can disappear for months.
Or better yet, don't bother. It's clear that your mind is already made up; actually it was made up before you started visiting this forum. You were never able to repudiate the structural diagnosis. You say you "did the work" but you didn't even get past step 1. You are fooling yourself.
I hope that surgery works for you. |
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TMSPain
21 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 08:07:47
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| Why would the surgery work if it really is TMS? Placebos don't last forever. Why does cortisone work for all? My mind has always been open, it has just been dominated by fear of returning spasms based on the fact the pain never lets up. Sorry, but when you have a full time job and family, you can't just keep living this way. You can't keep doing intense physical things when you lose so much time due to spasms. And I don't have 15-20 years of waiting for Sarno to work. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 08:19:38
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quote:
Originally posted by TMSPain
Why would the surgery work if it really is TMS? Placebos don't last forever. Why does cortisone work for all? My mind has always been open, it has just been dominated by fear of returning spasms based on the fact the pain never lets up. Sorry, but when you have a full time job and family, you can't just keep living this way. You can't keep doing intense physical things when you lose so much time due to spasms. And I don't have 15-20 years of waiting for Sarno to work.
OK, this is MY last post on the subject.
Who says "cortisone works for all?" That is absolutlely untrue.
You say "your mind is open" but in the same sentence say "dominated by fear." Those two mindsets are incompatible.
You, like many others, feel that surgery is a viable option to TMS. This highlights your flawed thinking. You believed all along that surgery can fix the problem, which is why TMS didn't work for you. You read the book, you participated in this forum (though it was a one-sided participation) but it never sank in. Your mind did not let it happen. The "fear" as you put it is a defense by your mind. You were simply not permitted to accept the TMS diagnosis, because you have very deep-rooted problems. Your unconscious mind lives in fear as well: fear of allowing you to experience the blind rage that exists in your unconscious. So it never gave you a chance to accept TMS.
It is clear that you are one of those people who simply cannot accept the TMS diagnosis, so maybe surgery will be a successful placebo for you. Your psychological issues apparently run very deep and you have not even begun to accept them, or confront them.
I hope things work out for you. Please refrain from any more negative postings on this forum; my patience has run out. |
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kenny V
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 08:31:47
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quote:
Thanks for the advice through this. My surgery is March 18.
This is my last message on this board.
quote:
I will say this one more time "MY BACK PAIN WENT AWAY FOR MONTHS WITHOUT SARNO, AND NOW WITH ALL THE WORK IT IS STILL HERE".
. I have anxiety, but my anxiety and other problems WERE A DIRECT RESULT OF WORRYING ABOUT MY BACK PAIN
. I USED TO GET STRESSED OUT AND JUST MOVE ON. NOW I ONLY GET STRESSED WHEN MY BACK PAIN COMES.
Oh!! The viscous cycle of TMS
It seems you are saying as far as your condition that one thing is contingent upon another…. And the cycle continues.
Let is go brother,
As long as you continue to blame your conditions on all factors other than you are causing your condition to manifest itself, you will continue to chase your symptoms.
And this TMS cycle/ syndrome can morph, change its strategy in many forms and manifestations before you break it’s viscous cycle.
Remember you are dealing with an AUTO immune response, so don’t think you can change it’s outcome without disrupting the cycle and develop a new pattern of thinking.
TMS can be a self-fulfilling prophecy, so watch what you predict it just might come true.
Hope you find the “truth” to your condition
Always Hope For Recovery
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 08:54:29
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dp, Sarno SAYS, surgery is the best placebo we have-it's good for two years. It works because the med/industrial comlpex of mumbo-jumbo surrounding it conditons you to believe it will work. You do pre-surgery PT, post-surgery PT, get cut, get morphine, get percodan. After all of that you get your confidence back - for a while. You may get two years of surgicaly induced placebo effect and then your TMS will pop up in new places, maybe just a vertebrae away. Statisticaly surgery doesn't work very well in fact I've heard most fail. I can't cite where I got that nugget of a fact, but you're the one 'gonna go under the knife so you do the research for me and find out the stats on UNSUCCESSFUL BACK SURGERY. If you want some stats on UNSUCCESFUL knee surgery, search Polly's posts.
Once again you get an F grade from TOM WHO WON'T SHUT UP, for reading comprehension. All this is basic Sarno 101. I think you were partying instead of doing your homework. You said you were leaving the board but you are back. I think you like the attention you are getting, what does your wife have to say about all this?
I do these posts for myself to help me remember the correct information versus the GROSS dis-information you are spreading about TMS. Were you ever a fact checker for Dan Rather at CBS news?
Your TMS pal,
t.w.w.s.u
TOM WHO WON'T SHUT UP
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TMSPain
21 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2005 : 09:30:51
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| I am SO aware of my issues and stresses. I have always been aware of my regrets in life and personality traits. That is why I doubt TMS. I doubt it because I have always been aware of my problems, and still no easing up of pain. I thought pain would go when you become aware of what is causing the pain. I have ALWAYS been aware of my problems and for 2 years now have been accepting of this new diagnosis. I just like to ask questions because I like to feel confident that others have been cured this way. I see a psychotherapist and feel that the only reason I am depressed is from the pain. The other things in my life bother me, but not like the pain. I know that my unconscious mind would rather deal with pain than emotional issues, but I know this and the pain still remains. I list my symptoms, stresses, good things in my life, bad thins, regrets, etc. I read the books, I watch the tapes, I write on the board. I do everything for this disorder. I just wish I really heard someone say, I have a herniated disk and I am completely pain free for years now. I can do anything for any amount of time without pain! When I hear that, I will be able to have a more consistent acceptance of the diagnosis of TMS. It just makes me feel crazy that a small bulletin board of a couple of people are telling me that the entire world and all doctors are wrong. |
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Bon Voyage
