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jerica
USA
94 Posts |
 Posted - 02/24/2010 : 06:59:44
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I emailed Dr Schubiner yesterday and he was very nice and got back to me saying he could not diagnose over the internet but it sounded like I had the classic symptoms, personality and childhood for TMS. He referred me to 2 doctors in TX who are doing TMS work (though they're about 5 hours away from me  ) He recommended I get his new book which is coming out in 3 weeks since it has all of the online course in it. I'll pre order it and hopefully maybe I can get to see one of the doctors in TX because I don't know what else to do:(
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2010 : 08:04:51
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I drove 3 hours to see Schuby.
The first 3 were some of the most painful ever.
The second 3 on the way back were much more pleasent. And I stopped in a nice hotel bar on the way thru canada and enjoyed a pint of beer and steak sanwich pain free. The mind, so crazy.
Just make a day or two out of it. And have fun. Get a hotel with a pool and a bar. Have an affair while your'e there j/kddng, and relax. don't expect relief overnight, but it will be a stepping stone on your path to healing that I would do sooner than later. |
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jerica
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2010 : 16:52:38
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| Did you feel a lot better because of your diagnosis? What did he do with you? I wish I could go see him. :( Why are there only 2 freaking doctors for this in all of TEXAS? And why do they have to both be in Dallas??? |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2010 : 17:17:14
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Jerica,
I will second skizz on that one. Turn the trip into something fun. 5 hrs may seem a long way but it may turn out to be the best thing you have ever done for yourself.
I am seriously thinking of trying to get myself to LA for the conference in March and trying to see Dr. Schubiner . My biggest problem is the dates. As luck would have it I am teaching a course at HKU for a month and it starts on 31st of March but it still might work out.
It's the long flight that I am not looking forward to.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
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skizzik
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2010 : 20:48:03
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quote:
Originally posted by jerica
Did you feel a lot better because of your diagnosis? What did he do with you? I wish I could go see him. :( Why are there only 2 freaking doctors for this in all of TEXAS? And why do they have to both be in Dallas???
I wrote alot about my visit to him here:
http://tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5813
I always wanted to write more about that visit, and the Jedi tms mind trick it played on me and will probably since I've been off work all week (can't ya tell with all the heavy posting ). He took a phone call from his son during the visit and I wanted to scream at him "Don't you know what I did to get here, how much pain, how much I have to get off my chest, how much I need you to convince me it's tms"!!!!!! argggggggghhhh! But I kept quiet .
Mala, you reminded me of the nightmares I used to have of thinking I had to take a plane to Disney, and how much pain I would be in with a knife in my spine. Fortunately I'm realizing I no longer fear planes. Car seats don't seem to bother me anymore either. Sometimes sure, but the infrequency appears to be growing. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 10:44:14
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| I drove from central North Carolina to Pennsylvania to see my TMS doc several years ago. It was well worth it to get the TMS diagnosis. I needed that validation of what I suspected in order to move forward and get serious about Sarno. Now my sciatica, of 25 years, is not much of an issue. About 90% better for over two years. |
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Fox
USA
496 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 11:08:17
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| Jerica - are you sure that Dr. Schubiner said that his new book would have the entire online course on it? |
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jerica
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 12:20:08
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I hope he doesn't mind if I copy and paste a lil of what he said:
"...Instead of saving money for the online program, it would probably make sense to buy my book. It's only $25 and it will include the whole program that is online. It will be published in about 3 weeks. You can order it from my website: www.unlearnyourpain.com
You should have hope of getting better! Let me know if I can help in any other way.
Best, Howard Schubiner."
He sounded absolutely lovely and I'd run to him in a heartbeat if I were anywhere near Michigan. I'll read your post about your visit now, Skizzik. His taking a call from his son can't be too much worse than the time I went to confession and the priest took a call right in the middle. I don't really go to church/confession anymore. |
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walnut864
94 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2010 : 15:43:12
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Yes the entire course is on the book but I dont think you get to access Dr. Schubiner personally through the news forum on his site, that only comes with the online program. Thats what I read a month ago. I think it still applies.
I took the online course. I was one of the lucky few that had immediate relief of all my symptoms but, it only lasted for 1 week before the pain returned. I am going to get back to work on the program soon but I am having trouble finding time with all my responsibilities. I purchased the book so that I could spend more time on the course.
Dr. Schubiner is the most compassionate man I have ever met. I hope that some day I will get the same compliments from people as Dr Schubiner gets from so many people.
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jerica
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2010 : 10:45:31
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| Yes you don't get access to the forum but for those who can't afford the $250 it's a start at least. |
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seven
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2010 : 14:34:54
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| Don't want to rain on Dr. Schubiner's parade here, but I did NOT find Dr. Schubiner a very compassionate person at all. I wrote to him briefly 5 times via email requesting a short response in regards to his new book and he absolutely refused me the courtesy of a short reply. No money in responding to emails I guess. |
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jerica
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2010 : 19:11:38
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| that's odd seven. He sent me an email the same day, and I honestly wasn't even expecting one. |
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seven
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2010 : 09:17:56
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quote:
Originally posted by jerica
that's odd seven. He sent me an email the same day, and I honestly wasn't even expecting one.
Hi jerica,
To be honest, I do not believe Dr. Schubiner wants to answer my question and therefore he just didn't reply. I believe he is skirting the question I posed.
I read on Dr. Schubiner's site he had a new book coming out with a instructional Mindfulness Meditation CD included. I email Dr. Schubiner and ask him about any possible conflict between Mindfulness Meditation and Christianity.
I ask Dr. Schubiner if he would write a few lines in an email sharing his few of a possible conflict. He did not reply. I waited and wrote again. No reply.
I wrote a total of 5 short emails asking to briefly share his view of the potential conflict. He absolutely refused to give me the courtesy of a response on the subject but I know from all the TMS message boards he usually does reply to emails. As a matter of fact I read sevral replied to email from Dr. Schubiner just last week to individual on the TMS Wiki site.
Of course if one is not a Christian there definitely is no conflict and this post would be completely irrelevant.
"Meditation" is a component of many religions, and has been practiced since antiquity but it is also practiced "outside" of religious traditions. There are secular methods of meditation.
Different meditative disciplines encompass a wide range of spiritual or psychophysical practices that may emphasize different goals—from achievement of a higher state of consciousness, 'enlightenment' that some Eastern gurus teach one can obtain liberation from life and death by meditation, a state where man is freed from the endless cycle of personal reincarnations, to greater focus, creativity or self-awareness, or simply a more relaxed and peaceful frame of mind while in activity.
Mindfulness Meditation was developed by Siddhartha Gautama(Buddha). According to the encyclopedia Wikipedian, the origin of *Mindfulness Meditation* is from Buddha's philosophy and practice. Mindfulness Mindfulness is the 7th aspect of the "Noble Eightfold Path" of Buddhism.
"The Noble Eightfold Path," Buddhist describes the way to the end of suffering, as it was laid out by Siddhartha Gautama (Buddha). It is a taught as a practical guideline to ethical and mental development with the goal of freeing the individual from attachments and delusions; and it is taught that it finally leads to understanding the truth about all things. Together with the "Four Noble Truths" it is said to constitute the gist of Buddhism. Great emphasis is put on the practical aspect, because they teach it is only through practice that one can attain a higher level of existence and finally reach "Nirvana."
Definition: Buddhist Nirvana: Nirvana is believed the supreme state free from suffering and individual existence. It is a state Buddhists refer to as "Enlightenment". It is the ultimate goal of all Buddhists. The attainment of nirvana *breaks the otherwise endless rebirth cycle of reincarnation.* Buddhists also consider nirvana as freedom from all worldly concerns such as greed, hate, and ignorance, etc.
So basically my question to Dr. Schubiner is, can Mindfulness Meditation be separated from the Buddhist religion, philosophy and doctrine and practiced in a secular context. |
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Hilary
United Kingdom
191 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2010 : 15:20:09
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I can understand Schubiner not answering that question. Once in a blue moon I get professional emails that I just can't seem to rustle up the energy to answer. I kind of know I should, but I just can't figure out the right response. These emails sit in my inbox staring at me and making me feel guilty until I decide to kick some TMS ass and just delete them. It's partly that I want the other person to figure out the answer and partly that I seem to have 8 million other things to do but mainly it's that the question isn't within my arena of knowledge and I can't actually get myself together enough to say that in any way that makes sense to the other person.
Maybe Dr Schubiner doesn't know the answer to your question. Or maybe he thinks it's a personal issue that you'll have to decide for yourself. For what it's worth, I've done a few mindfulness meditation classes, and they seem to be attended by every religion under the sun and then some. Mindfulness is just about paying attention to what's happening in the here and now rather than what's happened in the past or will happen in the future. I wouldn't worry about it.
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jerica
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2010 : 17:45:08
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Seven I'm not sure why you need Dr Schubiner to answer that question. We can think on our own without it belonging to a religion, so why can't we meditate without it being part of a religious belief system? I am not sure what you are trying to find out about the CD. If the CD were to mention nirvana or Buddha then it would be kinda Buddhist and if it mentioned Jesus it would be more Christian but I think they're not going for any religious view at all with general meditation.
I also find personally that some Christian sects seem to find offense and danger in oodles of things (massage, hypnosis, meditation, reiki, acupuncture etc.). One is basically told to "have faith" and you'll be healed. But I think that God gave us medicines and methods to use for our betterment and sometimes Christians think that using those tools somehow negates God or takes the focus off God. Why can't we meditate on God? And why can't we meditate on simply being good people to ourselves and others? We can meditate on psalms and the messages of the Bible. I don't understand why you need Dr Schubiner to say specifically that the mindfulness CD is not against Christianity or poses a conflict. Some Christians will always see a conflict and some will not. There are many types of Christian denominations. I think Dr Schubiner may simply just be avoiding having to address the religious issue because his book/CD isn't meant to take a religious standpoint.
I'll be getting the book and CD so I can tell you about it if you want. But then you're kind of at the mercy of my own personal perception of the stuff! |
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seven
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2010 : 21:33:33
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The reason I wrote and asked Dr. Howard Schubiner, besides being the teacher on the instructional CD that comes with his new book, he has practiced mindfulness meditation for more than 25 years and has been teaching mindfulness for the past 5 years. He has studied at the Center for Mindfulness at the University of Massachusetts Medical Center under Jon Kabat-Zinn, Saki Santorelli, and Ferris Urbanowski. So he is much more of an ''expert'' on the subject than I am.
On the other hand I have a degree in Bible studies and probably more versed on the Bible than he is.
Being Mindfulness Meditation was developed by Siddhartha Gautam (Buddha) and is the 7th aspect of the "Noble Eightfold Path" of Buddhism, there could be potential conflict in teachings. Instead of embarking on an in-depth study of Buddhism and its meditation, I felt the quickest was to find out is ask an expert on the subject. I hope that satisfies your curiosity on why I inquired to Dr. Howard Schubiner, jerica.
From the beginning of human history Satan has been deceiving humanity. In the garden he convinced Eve that "ye shall be as gods". Don't you find it interesting that to be divine "as God" is a common thread among many religions, including Buddhism?
I ordered the book and CD too so I will post my review after reading also. Thanks for the comments. |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2010 : 06:23:08
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Seven,
Perhaps checking out Kim Boykin's book, Zen for Christians, would be worthwhile for you.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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catspine
USA
239 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2010 : 12:10:06
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By Jericaquote:
Why are there only 2 freaking doctors for this in all of TEXAS?
Hey , because Texans are tough they don't need no doctors... |
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Hilary
United Kingdom
191 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2010 : 14:08:06
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seven,
Mindfulness meditation doesn't teach you about nirvana, or about 8 paths, 7 aspects, 3 french hens, 2 turtle doves or anything else. It ONLY teaches you to be present and to start paying attention to what's going on - right here, right now.
You don't have to embark on an in-depth study of Buddhism to find out about mindfulness meditation. Kabat-Zinn answers this question in the first chapter of Wherever You ARe, There You Go:
"The relevance (of mindfulness) has nothing to do with Buddhism...but has everything to do with waking up and living in harmony with oneself and with the world."
It's one of those things that was designed to be simple, and shouldn't be overcomplicated!
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Edited by - Hilary on 03/08/2010 14:12:57 |
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jerica
USA
94 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2010 : 22:46:06
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quote:
Originally posted by seven
Being Mindfulness Meditation was developed by Siddhartha Gautam (Buddha) and is the 7th aspect of the "Noble Eightfold Path" of Buddhism, there could be potential conflict in teachings.
I am eager to know what you think of the CD and if you do find anything conflicting in it. I hope you will post a review of the book and the CD when you've had a chance to read/listen to them. |
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seven
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2010 : 05:22:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Hilary
seven,
Mindfulness meditation doesn't teach you about nirvana, or about 8 paths, 7 aspects, 3 french hens, 2 turtle doves or anything else. It ONLY teaches you to be present and to start paying attention to what's going on - right here, right now.
"The relevance (of mindfulness) has nothing to do with Buddhism...but has everything to do with waking up and living in harmony with oneself and with the world."
I don't mean to appear pugnacious here Hilary, but I don't believe your statements are completely accurate in regards to Mindfulness Meditation. You posted "The relevance of mindfulness meditation has nothing to do with Buddhism...," for one.
According to the Encyclopedia Wikipedian, Mindfullness Meditation was developed by "The Buddha" (Siddhartha Gautama) and implemented as the 7th aspect of the "Noble Eightfold Path" of Buddhism with the GOAL of bringing the practitioner to the highest state of Nirvana (one with god or god-realization)
Mindfulness Meditation was taught by Buddha, and Buddhists today, as a practical technique to ethical and mental development with the goal of freeing the individual from attachments and delusions; and it is taught that it finally leads to understanding the truth about all things. Together with the "Four Noble Truths" it is what constitute the gist of Buddhism.
* I will gladly post a review of Dr Schubiner new book and instructional Mindfulness Meditation CD
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Emailed Dr Schubiner
