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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
 Posted - 10/01/2011 : 23:27:04
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Just curious how many people here suffer from multiple symptoms. Not just multiple symptoms, but one that seems to "take turns" with the other.
I've had horrible "sinus" headaches since Jan of 2010. The anxiety kicked in as a reaction to some medication. But, since then... the two have almost taken turns. One is bad... then lets up... and the other comes back. Some days both can be present, but it's rare.
I'm not talking about The Symptom Imperative, either... because I haven't really solved either of these issues yet. I'm just wondering if others feel like they had multiple, and possibly alternating symptoms.
The fact that I do... leads me more to believe both may be TMS. (Or the like.)
Be well, all.
_____________________________
-1/2010 - Developed chronic sinus problems. ENTs/Docs can't find anything
-5/29/2010 - Doc gives cocktail of allergy meds which induces first ever panic attack/anxiety.
-7/16/2010 - Anxiety stays/worsens - put on Xanax
2/1/2011 - Began Xanax taper - Withdrawal starts - full body chaos
-6/11/2011 - Last dose of Xanax. Physical/emotional chaos continues for several months.
-Now: Taking it day by day, looking for real answers and ways to heal myself without medical poison. |
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eautmb
France
23 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2011 : 00:35:57
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quote:
Originally posted by bryan3000
Just curious how many people here suffer from multiple symptoms. Not just multiple symptoms, but one that seems to "take turns" with the
I have had alternating GI symptoms and chronic bronchitis/sinus issues for the last year. When my GI problems settled my bronchitis/sinus issues started. Then everything settled, then GI issues came back. I've had chronic bronchitis before, during or just after stressful events (I'm not a smoker). |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2011 : 11:21:03
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| My list of psychosomatic complaints is lengthy. It's common for people to have more than one kind of symptom. |
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Javizy
United Kingdom
76 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2011 : 11:53:24
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| If you have a stress problem, you'll be lucky to get away with just one symptom. Every time you experience stress just about your entire body takes a beating, and it starts to add up after a while. |
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pan
United Kingdom
173 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2011 : 12:36:26
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I think most of the time the 'ailments' that are troubling us at one particular moment are pretty much always there but become far more resonant as we place a focus on them. I must have a list of about 20 symptoms that seem to have come and gone and yep, as soon as one resolves itself another seems to pop up...of course the reality is that the focus changes.
Wake me up with your amphetamine blast
Take me by the collar and throw me out into the world
Rock me gently & send me dreaming of something tender
I was brought here to pay homage to the beat surrender
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2011 : 23:11:43
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Yea, Javizy... I've had my symptoms run the gamut. Especially if you factor in benzo withdrawal. But, even before that... I could list 30-40 physical symptoms that my anxiety brought on. (For starters.)
But, I always considered them part of 1 thing. (Axiety.)
The sinus headaches started before the anxiety. But, I definitely feel both could be TMS. I'm just starting into the journey to find out.
_____________________________
-1/2010 - Developed chronic sinus problems. ENTs/Docs can't find anything
-5/29/2010 - Doc gives cocktail of allergy meds which induces first ever panic attack/anxiety.
-7/16/2010 - Anxiety stays/worsens - put on Xanax
2/1/2011 - Began Xanax taper - Withdrawal starts - full body chaos
-6/11/2011 - Last dose of Xanax. Physical/emotional chaos continues for several months.
-Now: Taking it day by day, looking for real answers and ways to heal myself without medical poison. |
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Javizy
United Kingdom
76 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2011 : 08:00:27
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I don't think symptoms stemming from anxiety and TMS are much different, if not the same thing. I don't think the symptoms of stress illness are as mysterious or random as some people make out either. Whether or not you need to know the details depends on your mindset. Some people are happy to understand it as a distraction or trickery of the mind, but I find more comfort in understanding the science behind things, and I can recommend you a good book if that's your style.
Whatever you believe the causes are, the treatment is the same, and that's eliminating fear, worry and other forms of stress and starting to promote some acceptance and optimism and learning to relax and appreciate yourself and your life. Whether you look to physiological, neurological, psychological or psychiatric research, or to Sarno's and other TMS books, you'll find the suggestions for recovery are very similar.
I'm glad you've got off the psych meds anyway. They're absolutely horrible and so readily dished out without proper analysis of the individual's situation. Don't be obsessed with labels and doing what's
"right" or "wrong"; do what feels comfortable for you and what gets you results. But more than anything stop worrying and start living! |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2011 : 09:05:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Javizy
I don't think symptoms stemming from anxiety and TMS are much different, if not the same thing.
...Whatever you believe the causes are, the treatment is the same, and that's eliminating fear, worry and other forms of stress and starting to promote some acceptance and optimism and learning to relax and appreciate yourself and your life. Whether you look to physiological, neurological, psychological or psychiatric research, or to Sarno's and other TMS books, you'll find the suggestions for recovery are very similar.
Well put Javizy! In my opinion whether the symptoms are psychogenic or affective they all serve the same TMS purpose, to distract from fearful emotional thoughts.
===================================================================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
================================================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
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bryan3000
USA
513 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2011 : 20:07:07
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quote:
Originally posted by tennis tom
quote:
Originally posted by Javizy
I don't think symptoms stemming from anxiety and TMS are much different, if not the same thing.
...Whatever you believe the causes are, the treatment is the same, and that's eliminating fear, worry and other forms of stress and starting to promote some acceptance and optimism and learning to relax and appreciate yourself and your life. Whether you look to physiological, neurological, psychological or psychiatric research, or to Sarno's and other TMS books, you'll find the suggestions for recovery are very similar.
Well put Javizy! In my opinion whether the symptoms are psychogenic or affective they all serve the same TMS purpose, to distract from fearful emotional thoughts.
===================================================================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
================================================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
Thanks to both of you for the responses!
...and you're right, losing the fear is a big part of it for me. I work hard at acceptance, but suspect deep down that I'm still too fearful of the discomfort meaning something, or staying. Logically, I'm all over this thing. But, beneath the surface...I'm not so sure.
I also feel like digging a bit deeper for me is in order. There has to be reasons outside of my awareness that a seemingly happily mind/body came so unglued so quickly. Some of the things I can guess, but there must be more aspects at play, and I have to understand them to address them.
_____________________________
-1/2010 - Developed chronic sinus problems. ENTs/Docs can't find anything
-5/29/2010 - Doc gives cocktail of allergy meds which induces first ever panic attack/anxiety.
-7/16/2010 - Anxiety stays/worsens - put on Xanax
2/1/2011 - Began Xanax taper - Withdrawal starts - full body chaos
-6/11/2011 - Last dose of Xanax. Physical/emotional chaos continues for several months.
-Now: Taking it day by day, looking for real answers and ways to heal myself without medical poison. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2011 : 23:34:04
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quote:
Originally posted by bryan3000
I also feel like digging a bit deeper for me is in order. There has to be reasons outside of my awareness that a seemingly happily mind/body came so unglued so quickly. Some of the things I can guess, but there must be more aspects at play, and I have to understand them to address them.
Just curious Bryan, if you've ever looked at the Rahe-Holmes list in my sig, for possible causes for your TMS? If not, you may want to explore that.
=========================================================
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Holmes and Rahe stress scale is a list of 43 stressful life events that can contribute to illness.
To measure stress according to the Holmes and Rahe Stress Scale, the number of "Life Change Units" that apply to events in the past year of an individual's life are added and the final score will give a rough estimate of how stress affects health.
Life event----------------------Life change units
Death of a spouse.......................100
Divorce..................................73
Marital separation.......................65
Imprisonment.............................63
Death of a close family member...........63
Personal injury or illness...............53
Marriage.................................50
Dismissal from work......................47
Marital reconciliation...................45
Retirement...............................45
Change in health of family member........44
Pregnancy................................40
Sexual difficulties......................39
Gain a new family member.................39
Business readjustment....................39
Change in financial state................38
Death of a close friend..................37
Change to different line of work.........36
Change in frequency of arguments.........35
Major mortgage...........................32
Foreclosure of mortgage or loan..........30
Change in responsibilities at work.......29
Child leaving home.......................29
Trouble with in-laws.....................29
Outstanding personal achievement.........28
Spouse starts or stops work..............26
Begin or end school......................26
Change in living conditions..............25
Revision of personal habits..............24
Trouble with boss........................23
Change in working hours or conditions....20
Change in residence......................20
Change in schools........................20
Change in recreation.....................19
Change in church activities..............19
Change in social activities..............18
Minor mortgage or loan...................17
Change in sleeping habits................16
Change in number of family reunions......15
Change in eating habits..................15
Vacation.................................13
Christmas................................12
Minor violation of law...................11
Score of 300+: At risk of illness.
Score of 150-299+: Risk of illness is moderate (reduced by 30% from the above risk).
Score 150-: Only have a slight risk of illness.
==================================================
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
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Edited by - tennis tom on 10/05/2011 08:40:01 |
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Bugbear
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 08:55:16
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| I was introduced to this test over 10 years ago. I just took the test again now and scored 225. There have been some major stressors/upsets in the last week, let alone the last year. No surprise that I have come down with a cold then, something I rarely get. All of my stressors are under 40 but I see how they do add up. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 09:05:38
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| Thank you Bugbear! In all the time I've been pushing the R-H Test, you're maybe the first or the second person to post any feed-back. To me, it's the "SCIENCE" that the TMS doubters claim is lacking for Dr. Sarno's theory. It's interesting how the TMS gremlin, keeps us from discovering the information we need to physically heal, when it's right in front of our eyes. I wonder what I'm missing, that I've glossed over in the TMS books and materials? |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 10:32:31
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TT, I read about it here via your link while ago. Many events listed in the list are really stressful events, but some of it, I think would only consider to be stressful depend on the individual's mindset. Like: Christmas, vacation, change of residence... Some people would view those events as joyous, fun, relax... I personally enjoy each and everyone of my vacation. I always feel relax and rejuvenate on a vacation...
So, I'm not sure how accurate the test is. I guess this scale is just a general guide for people to find out how stressful their lifes are. Thanks for link. |
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Bugbear
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 11:16:01
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| I agree, Balto. There are things on that list that I wouldn't immediately think are stressful as such and yet there are things not on the list that I think are. Not being on speaking terms with family members both within and outside of the home for starters. As for vacations although I do enjoy them I tend to anticipate all sorts of things that don't usually happen, catastrophising as they say. I get more migraines on vacation as a result. Most of my stressors are to do with a change in job role recently. My last job with the same organization was full on, no let up frenzy. Sometimes I thrived on the stress, sometimes not. It depended on all sorts of factors. Now my job is more hours which I wanted, more pay which is greatly needed given spouse lost his job last week, but stressful because I am not busy and thus utterly bored, to the point I am searching for another job. And that's stressful too because there is nothing out there! Anyway I am attempting to view it as a challenge rather than an unfortunate chain of events that I have no control over. I will succeed. I will overcome. |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 15:00:27
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quote:
Originally posted by balto
So, I'm not sure how accurate the test is. I guess this scale is just a general guide for people to find out how stressful their lifes are. Thanks for link.
I disagree, I strongly feel THIS is the science that the TMS doubters are always looking for. The point is NOT that the event is negative or pleasuable. The point is CHANGE from one's comfort zone--HOMEOSTASIS--which is occuring on a subconscious cellular level.
I love traveling and get symptoms on the way home, my GF, is the opposite, she hates the road but feels more secure as we near home--different strokes for different folks. Anytime I get a symptom, I check the R-H list to see what events in my recent past have precipitated them--THERE'S THE SCIENCE!
==================================================
DR. SARNO'S 12 DAILY REMINDERS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0dKBFwGR0g
TAKE THE HOLMES-RAHE STRESS TEST
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holmes_and_Rahe_stress_scale
Some of my favorite excerpts from _THE DIVIDED MIND_ :
http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2605
==================================================
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Pain is inevitable; suffering is optional." Author Unknown
"Happy People Are Happy Putters." Frank Nobilo, Golf Analyst
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Javizy
United Kingdom
76 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 15:42:36
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I don't know what to make of the test. My score isn't very high, and I wonder if getting married and changing jobs, like I hope to in the coming years, is more likely to put me at risk of a stroke in future than the awful reactionary way I used to "cope" with stress, along with the negative thought patterns and personality traits that allowed it to grow.
If I didn't change my mentality when I did, how would my body have dealt with another 10 or 20 years of me tripping out every time my PC acted slower than I arbitrarily believed it should, let alone the countless irrational explosions to everything else every day on an ever-increasing scale?
I've seen the test mentioned a lot, and it's definitely interesting, and supported the stress-illness connection at a time when there wasn't much backing for it, but I think any quantitative research like this has its limitations, and should be taken with a pinch of salt as long as other variables like personality, coping ability and so on aren't taken into account. It's useful, but I don't think you should be getting worried if you score high even though you're feeling fine. Just carry on feeling fine  |
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balto
839 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 18:15:49
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The list probably apply to the majority of the public, but just like everything, I think there are always exception. To a monk who gave up everything and go into a cave some where in the Himalaya mountain to meditate his life away, most on that list will not raise or lower his stress level. Different people have different tolerance level to events that happened in life. A girl work in my office scream and her eyes were full of tears because she had a bad paper cut to her finger. During the war in Vietnam I saw guys got shot, got bandaged up by the medic, then ran right back to his position to continue to fight. I guess it all depend on how people look at things, how they react to events. A friend of mine cried and were depressed so much because he lost his house to forclosure, he has to be hospitalized. Another neighbor was so happy because he got to live for almost a year for free in his house before the bank forclosed on it. And now he is so happy with his little appartment and a much smaller housing cost. Some people go to Las Vegas to do a 5 minutes wedding ceremony. In India there are wedding celebrations that lasted for more than 2 weeks. I'm not sure which one is more stressful.
I'm sure the list is science. I just think there are exceptions and events listed on the list will effect different people to a different degree. It is science, but not exact science. But it does give one an idea of how stressful one's life can be. |
Edited by - balto on 10/05/2011 18:19:57 |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2011 : 11:04:02
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TT,
I have been reading your recent posts with great interest, but would like to ask you, given your current thinking, where is the role of repressed emotions in this Holmes-Rahe stress test in Sarno's theory? He has directly answered that specific question on more than one occasion by saying that the emotions responsible for TMS are unconscious, not felt, and cannot be. On his video, one of the patients asks this question by saying he gets angry all the time and yet he still has TMS.
The use of a list of current stressors score seems to me to be indicative of "symptom as result of stressful thoughts" as opposed to "symptom as distraction from the unknown or unfelt." The Holmes-Rahe scale seems to be at odds with Sarno.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2011 : 11:12:17
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Hi Hillbilly,
In all honesty, I've read your question several times and would like to answer it, but I don't understand it. It may be too complex for my little mind, could you please rephrase it into simpler terms if possible.
Sincerely,
tt |
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Hillbilly
USA
385 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2011 : 12:38:56
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Tom,
Experiencing one of these stressors often causes an uptick in symptoms. But where is the role of distraction in this? Our thoughts toward the situation are already unwanted. Distraction from what? Something worse? What could be worse than a pancreatic cancer diagnosis? I'm the firmest believer in the world that most of the ailments complained of here are psychosomatic, having experienced hundreds of them. But why does there have to be a distraction strategy attached? If we can make a direct correlation between event and symptom, and I certainly could in my own experience, it seems to contradict all thought of unconscious emotion, repression, and distraction. At least to my boorish mind.
I hate quotations. Tell me what you know.
Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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tennis tom
USA
4749 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2011 : 13:04:48
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Thanks for the clarification Hillbilly. I'll give some thought to my answer and reply later, unfortunately, I have to go to work now and add to my TMS reservoir.
Cheers |
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Is it one thing or the other?
