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ghopkins
USA
28 Posts |
 Posted - 02/23/2010 : 18:20:45
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Hi all,
I've posted a couple of other threads about ruptured L3, finding Dr. Sarno, and the Dr. diagnosing me with TMS. Most of the pain is in my left knee and feels like swelling, pulling, stiffness, and pain. The pain moves to behind the knee and if I walk, with the support of a crutch, it hurts like many strings are stretching (tendons?) I have been able to straighten the knee at times, but most of the time, not all the way. It was a week ago today that I had the consultation with Dr. Sarno. I am using the study guide he gave me and referencing two of the Dr's. books. I have been using Healing Back Pain and The MindBody Prescription. I have read both books twice each, but because this is all new to me I have dog-eared pages and sections as I find new and helpful stuff that never sunk in while reading.
I am asking for your support. The kind of support I need is with patience with myself, my unconscious, and my body. I am tying to take this one day at a time. Please note: I am a perfectionist. No body can beat me up better than I can. I do know that expectations are a setup for disappointment. How did you deal with the negative thoughts during your recovery? I have the time to recover because I lost my job. I was a technical manager and the reason for termination put on the pink-slip was "Couldn't come into work". I am afraid. I'm 54 years old and wonder what I will do for the rest of my life. I'm a Toys R-Us Kid, and I never did want to grow up. I am using journaling, the study guide (from Sarno) and the books to support my recovery. I also use index cards with quotes I copied from Sarno's books. I also use talking to mind and another technique where I say "there is nothing wrong with my body---it's the my unconscious anger and rage. I need to thinkabout reasons for the rage". I will then focus on unpleasant and threatening thoughts and feelings. This has slowly brought me some relief.
I will post here when I need help or support. Thank you all for your posts. It was those posts that convinced me to seek out Dr. Sarno for a diagnosis. Without Dr. Sarno, I was facing fusion surgery. I did a Google on that procedure and was not happy with what I found. I guess what caused me to start my hunt for a second opinion is there is no sign of structure damage - the MRI, CT Scan, and x-rays were all clean. The thought of thank gives me conscious rage!
My best,
Greg
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Edited by - ghopkins on 02/23/2010 18:38:55 |
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gav
Australia
13 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2010 : 20:28:51
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Hi,
The best way I have found to deal with negative/doubtful thoughts is to remember what Sarno says in the divided mind - Doubt is part of the Syndrome (not exact words).
Actually, I just re-read your first paragraph. The Dr. has actually diagnosed you with TMS! You should be really confident in your diagnosis! I live in Australia and I don't think there is a TMS doctor in the country. I have experienced an enormous amount of relief without technically being diagnosed. My doubt at times has been huge, but if you look at it as a part of the whole syndrome I don't think it will impede "healing".
I think a good thing for you would be to "timebox" your study time. Set a set period of time for your journaling etc and don't exceed it. The rest of the time, get busy! Do something, anything, and just don't think about the pain. Watch funny movies, play video games, hang with friends, go fishing, whatever.
This is some of the techniques I have used and while I am not completely better, I think it could benefit you too. |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2010 : 20:40:13
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Hi Greg.
I'm glad you got the diagnosis from Dr. Sarno. You should be able to rest assured that your pain is TMS.
Try not to be too much of a perfectionist when it comes to TMS treatment. It is important to do the work, and that includes reading the books, journaling, "talking to your mind", etc. However, it is most important to accept the pain for what it is, and do your best to ignore it and live a normal life.
TMS treatment is about reconditioning yourself to think about the pain in a totally different way, and react differently to it. Instead of fearing that there is something physically wrong, you accept that the pain is benign and serves a purpose. By focusing on unpleasant thoughts and feelings -- the ones you don't want to admit that you feel, the ones that you do not want to face -- you are reconditioning your response to the pain.
Recovery takes time and will have its ups and downs. Even if you get some relief in the short-term, the pain may return. The brain will not give up this strategy without a fight. It is important to take a long-term view and not get caught up in how you feel on any particular day. Just keep at it, and have faith that if you follow Dr. Sarno's treatment, you will get better, even if it takes awhile. |
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ghopkins
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2010 : 21:02:11
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quote:
Originally posted by gav
I think a good thing for you would be to "timebox" your study time. Set a set period of time for your journaling etc and don't exceed it. The rest of the time, get busy! Do something, anything, and just don't think about the pain. Watch funny movies, play video games, hang with friends, go fishing, whatever.
This is some of the techniques I have used and while I am not completely better, I think it could benefit you too.
Thank you. I never heard the term timebox, but I may be doing it already. I do the study guide in the morning, after breakfast. The rest of the day, I read, write other things, practice my guitar, watch old movies, phone friends, etc. I am used to walking 3 miles every morning, but haven't been able to walk very far because the TMS has caused the majority of problems in my left leg. In the house, I get around pretty much using one crutch. The the longest distance I have walked was when we saw Dr. Sarno. I used two crutches to go from the van, down that long hall, to the Dr.'s office and back to the van.
I wish I could take a real walk, but I'm not there yet. My attack started around Christmas and kept me in bed for over 4 weeks. I was unable to stand. Looking back on the Dr's visit, I guess the books were helping because I did do that walk, however slowly, I did it.
Greg |
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2010 : 21:13:03
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First up, congrats on feeling slightly better.
Dr Sarno has been in rehab medicine for many many years. He has seen all the 'physical' stuff and has witnessed firsthand how treating the pain thru different physical modalities doesn't work. He would know immediately if your pain wasn't tms and he would not risk his reputation telling you that it is tms if he wasn't 100% sure. You are truly lucky that you have got your diagnosis straight from the horses mouth. You certainly have that advantage over many of us.
So use this opportunity. Consult him, talk to him about your progress, do what he has prescribed you to do.
There is no doubt in my mind that this forum is great & there are many people out there who are willing to help & support you so do post and ask for help but also keep in mind the fact that the result could be that you get too much information which may at times confuse so you will have to be careful how you process and analyse all that advice & info . The positive side of all that is that many of those comments & responses will help you think in ways which perhaps you would not have thought about yourself and can be very insightful. Other people's perspectives are always very interesting as they can help you think in ways you normally may not.
About the pain you are experiencing at the moment did Sarno give you any instructions regarding that. Did he say, medicate or take it slowly or did he say go back to normal activity as soon as possible?
I am truly sorry about your job and absolutely aghast at how you could be terminated for being sick. Isn't there a law against that?
Keep us posted on your progress.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
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ghopkins
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2010 : 21:29:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave
Recovery takes time and will have its ups and downs. Even if you get some relief in the short-term, the pain may return. The brain will not give up this strategy without a fight. It is important to take a long-term view and not get caught up in how you feel on any particular day. Just keep at it, and have faith that if you follow Dr. Sarno's treatment, you will get better, even if it takes awhile.
Thank you, Dave. I am having a difficult time of it tonight. For some reason the pain gets worse after 8:00 pm. Tonight it increased much earlier and it is really rocking now. It is extremely hard to ignore. I'm not really mobile for outside adventure, but I do make sure to get up and walk around the house. The last time I tried the stairs to the second floor a pain shot through my entire body like a huge shock I screamed passed-out and thankfully was caught by one of my sons. They put me a desk chair got me to one of our son's rooms and I stayed in bed for two weeks. I ended up having my wife call 911 three times to get me to the ER during the first 4 weeks.
This all started when I shoveled from a heavy snow storm. I was shoveling in anger and when I went too long, I just continued until I was exhausted. I drove a standard-shift car for four days, made it through Christmas, and then I woke up and could not get out of bed. I was one screaming mess when the EMT's arrived.
I will try not to focus on how I am on any one day. That is good advice.
I belong to a another program, a 12 step program. They advise staying out of my head. Dr. Sarno says to get into my head and focus on unpleasant and threatening things. I am having some problems with this for several reasons. 1.) I have been sober for 23 years and did so by not venturing between my ears. 2.) I'm a worrier, so focusing on unpleasant or threatening is what I do almost naturally. I have thought about being unemployed and losing our home and other such things. I don't think I'm doing this right as the pain is greater than what I can think about.
How do you or other use this technique? Can you give me an example? I over think and analyze everything and that may be my difficulty.
Thanks,
Greg
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gav
Australia
13 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2010 : 21:33:02
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quote:
Originally posted by ghopkins
quote:
Originally posted by gav
I think a good thing for you would be to "timebox" your study time. Set a set period of time for your journaling etc and don't exceed it. The rest of the time, get busy! Do something, anything, and just don't think about the pain. Watch funny movies, play video games, hang with friends, go fishing, whatever.
This is some of the techniques I have used and while I am not completely better, I think it could benefit you too.
Thank you. I never heard the term timebox, but I may be doing it already. I do the study guide in the morning, after breakfast. The rest of the day, I read, write other things, practice my guitar, watch old movies, phone friends, etc. I am used to walking 3 miles every morning, but haven't been able to walk very far because the TMS has caused the majority of problems in my left leg. In the house, I get around pretty much using one crutch. The the longest distance I have walked was when we saw Dr. Sarno. I used two crutches to go from the van, down that long hall, to the Dr.'s office and back to the van.
I wish I could take a real walk, but I'm not there yet. My attack started around Christmas and kept me in bed for over 4 weeks. I was unable to stand. Looking back on the Dr's visit, I guess the books were helping because I did do that walk, however slowly, I did it.
Greg
Timeboxing is like a production hack - if you have ever heard that term before. You can use it for anything. Say you have a stack of dirty dishes, you can't abide the idea of standing there and washing for 20 mins, but you can imagine yourself doing 2 mins. So set a timer for 2 mins and just wash dishes for 2 mins, if you feel like going longer you can do so, but don't force it! Maybe an hour later just do 1 more minute of washing up and etc... This is pretty redundant as I imagine most people have a dishwasher, but it can work on any intimidating large project, just break up into an infinitesimally small portion that you can stomach. Just do one! That's it.
Anyway sorry for going off on a tangent. |
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ghopkins
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2010 : 21:46:18
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quote:
Originally posted by mala
About the pain you are experiencing at the moment did Sarno give you any instructions regarding that. Did he say, medicate or take it slowly or did he say go back to normal activity as soon as possible?
I am truly sorry about your job and absolutely aghast at how you could be terminated for being sick. Isn't there a law against that?
Hi, the company is small and they have really good lawyers. If there is a law against it, we haven't found it. I think they get away with it because they are way under 50 employees.
The Dr. told me to do the work in his study guide (reading his books, writing, deep breathing) and call him on March 3. He said when the pain is gone or almost gone to slowly resume physical activities. Today would not be a good day to resume. LOL
My symptoms prevent me from walking or standing without using support. The doctor did ask me to walk across the floor, a distance of eight feet, and I did with my hand leaning on his shoulder. There is a perceived weakness in the leg. When I walk I will feel a pain like a knife is stabbing me in the knee and a burning in the back of my leg behind the knee. The knee swells a little, but it feels like it is filled with water. As the symptoms subside, I feel like the knee is stiffening. As of this last few days, I can move the leg through the stiffness.
Thank you for your advise.
Greg
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2010 : 21:47:47
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quote:
I was shoveling in anger and when I went too long
Here's good place to start. What were you angry about? I mean what were you REALLY angry about. I'm not asking you to tell me but maybe write about it.
quote:
I belong to a another program, a 12 step program. They advise staying out of my head. Dr. Sarno says to get into my head and focus on unpleasant and threatening things.
23 years is along time to be repressing stuff. That would explain the massive physical trauma you experienced. Your reservoir of rage is probably overflowing.I agree with Sarno about getting into your head but I am also wary. Be cautious. Did Sarno recommend talking to a professional?
quote:
I'm a worrier, so focusing on unpleasant or threatening is what I do almost naturally.
Yes but most times we perfectionists worry about superficial things while a lot of the real stuff is buried way down under. As perfectionists we are good at doing that.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
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ghopkins
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2010 : 22:25:36
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quote:
Originally posted by mala
quote:
I was shoveling in anger and when I went too long
Here's good place to start. What were you angry about? I mean what were you REALLY angry about. I'm not asking you to tell me but maybe write about it.
I have written about 9 full pages on that conscious anger. It had to do with the job.
quote:
I belong to a another program, a 12 step program. They advise staying out of my head. Dr. Sarno says to get into my head and focus on unpleasant and threatening things.
23 years is along time to be repressing stuff. That would explain the massive physical trauma you experienced. Your reservoir of rage is probably overflowing.I agree with Sarno about getting into your head but I am also wary. Be cautious. Did Sarno recommend talking to a professional?
I'm sure Dr. Sarno and I will discuss seeing some local analytical psychologist. Being out of work will not leave enough money to do that. In my 12 step recovery I have done several 4th and 5th steps. Usually one a year, but I missed a couple. I work with others I sponsor in recovery and my sponsor. I talk with my sponsor at least 5 days a week. I don't how much you know about 12 step work, but I disagree with your comment regarding stuffing. That is considered a huge no-no. We just have a different toolbox, if you will.
[quote] I'm a worrier, so focusing on unpleasant or threatening is what I do almost naturally.
Yes but most times we perfectionists worry about superficial things while a lot of the real stuff is buried way down under. As perfectionists we are good at doing that.
I agree. I had a career for 23 years (IBM & Gartner) and I used to make a lot of money. I decided to do something I really wanted to for a small company which was rapidly growing. They grew themselves out of business and I lost the greatest job I ever had. I was out of work for two years. I did do about 10 months of contract work during that time period. I eventually found a job as a sales manager for a 25 year old software firm. I was setup to fail from the start. No budget, no training, and cold calling from the yellow pages. My first major duty was dump 4 sales people. I stay with them for 6 years because I was looking to get back into the corporate world and I needed the benefits for my diabetic care (mentioned in another thread). When I was shoveling, it was Sunday, 12/20. I was pissed that I had to go into the office the next day. I truly hated my job for 6 years, every single day. I shared about my job a lot with trusted individuals. I looked for other jobs everyday. When I interviewed I was constantly told I was over qualified. Last November, I was told I was obsolete. I shared all the conscious stuff.
I guess I didn't know that my unconscious was repressing all of it.
That is quite the distinction. I am venting and sharing and my unconscious had it's own agenda according to the good doctor.
Are you sorry you asked? LOL
Greg
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2010 : 22:42:16
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Greg, of course I'm not sorry I asked.
It is incredible how much havoc our unconscious mind is able to create but I think you have already in this short space of time got a good grasp of TMS and what it is about and like I said earlier you have the good doctor on yr side to help you.
I think you were very brave to embrace the TMS idea especially at a time when most people would have gone for the surgery.
I wish you all the best in your journey to recovery.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
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ghopkins
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2010 : 06:41:24
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quote:
Originally posted by mala
I think you were very brave to embrace the TMS idea especially at a time when most people would have gone for the surgery.
I wish you all the best in your journey to recovery.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala
Mala,
Thank you very much. It was a stretch for me to open my mind enough
to Dr. Sarno. I have a good friend who works at our local hospital.
When he saw me laying there for the third time, he decided to share with me how Dr. Sarno had saved his life some twenty years ago. My friend was losing his life because pain was taking away everything he loved. He couldn't even hold his son. When he heard about Dr. Sarno, he made an appointment and had someone drive hime the 90 minutes into
New York. The treatment was a little different with a consultation followed up with two seminars. My friend is a few years older than me, and to see him today, you would never know. He dances around and gets in all sorts of trouble. He has his life back. When I heard his story, I decided to order Dr. Sarno's books from Amazon.com. They arrived a few days later, and having nothing better to do, I devoured them. It took a couple weeks to get an appointment, but I was hopeful when I went in for the consultation. The diagnostic part of the consult proved to me that I had TMS. It also proved to me that I could still use my leg, stand on my toes with good foot off the floor, and rise my lame foot from back on my heel. This is strange.
While I was being diagnosed and speaking with the doctor I was completely pain free. Yes, my leg behaved as though it was weak, but no pain. We were on our way home, driving on the FDR, when I started to feel very tired and minor pain returned. About three hours later the pain had returned. I wonder if my desire to make the most of my meeting with Dr. Sarno, changed my focus enough to distract me from the pain. The weakness was still there, but I suspect that was because
the surgeon from our local hospital had be in bed and doing nothing for several weeks.
Thank you for the well wishes.
Greg |
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ghopkins
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2010 : 06:54:23
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Hi all,
Earlier in the thread, I posted about a technique in which focus on unpleasant and threatening thoughts and feeling is used to deny the pain it's purpose. If anyone else uses this technique, what are some of the terrible thoughts and feelings you use? Are you reflecting on something real from a past experience or are you making something up?
I have been using projections based on being 54 and looking for work in a terrible job market. Money worries and losing what we have worked hard to get is a big focus in my life, so I use that, as well.
I am asking for suggestions because I do believe in the old saying "you get what you focus on" or "you become what you think about all day long" or something like that. In other words, I don't what to attract or manifest any of these things to add to the pile, if that makes any sense.
Thank you. I look forward to your thoughts and suggestions on using the technique.
Peace,
Greg
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mala
Hong Kong
774 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 17:36:53
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Greg, wanted to know how you are doing. Let us know if you have a moment.
Good Luck & Good Health
Mala |
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catspine
USA
239 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 22:53:05
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quote:
While I was being diagnosed and speaking with the doctor I was completely pain free. Yes, my leg behaved as though it was weak, but no pain. We were on our way home, driving on the FDR, when I started to feel very tired and minor pain returned. About three hours later the pain had returned. I wonder if my desire to make the most of my meeting with Dr. Sarno, changed my focus enough to distract me from the pain.
Greg
If you were pain free during the appointment you couldn't hope for better news than that .
What that means is that your pain can go away dependaing on the circumstances, and you can decide (if you find out how to do it) to feel better or worse.
You may be closer to recovery than you think.
As for your job when you'll find a better one the old one will not mean anything to you anymore. |
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Greg's TMS Recovery
